BS: If your government collapsed

Subject: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 05:14 AM

What do you think should replace it? Who should run the show? How?
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 07:08 AM

Me and Alex Polizzi.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 07:12 AM

A Kingdom?
Would people have any say? Or rights?
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 07:24 AM

My guess is that either:

a) the military would establish a military dictatorship, either with or without involving the current monarchy and aristocracy.

b) people would come together in small units and begin restructuring society in the form of interconnected networks of small meritocracies and democracies.

c) people would come together and establish interconnected networks of small meritocracies and democracies, then the military, either with or without involving our current monarchy and aristocracy would crush those and instead establish a military dictatorship.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 07:42 AM

What if there's no military.
They all went home.
Armed bands of thugs would rule?
Anarchy?
How about a government where the people vote on the laws? No representatives. No electoral college. Every man's vote counts on every issue. No lobbyists.
No campaigning.
Has that ever been tried?
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 08:46 AM

For that to work, one would have to exterminate the media.....not a bad idea in itself.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 09:20 AM

If my present government collapsed, I'd dance on its grave.

If all government in the UK (or England) were to collapse it would probably get a bit messy. We have very little tradition of military coups, so I imagine that there would be speedy descent into anarchy. But at least, unlike the USA, there would not be ready made warlords itching to get cracking with their private armies.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 09:21 AM

No? Has the BNP disbanded, then?

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 11:05 AM

It's bankrupt and although it has thugs (and the attack-dog wing, the EDL) mostly they do not have the panoply of things ranging from fully automatic assault rifles up to tanks and missile platforms that are collected for legitimate recreational target practice and hunting chipmunks in the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Amos
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 11:09 AM

I don't think it is likely.

If you are asking what the ideal government would be like, I expect it would be a constitutional republic with strong safeguards against corporocratic and fascist impulses.


A

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 11:32 AM

Be a lot of shootin' until only the guy with the biggest gun would be standing... In other words, the military... Yeah, Bubba would shoot a lot of them before getting himself, his wife Billy Jean and his two dogs, Bruiser & Bubba, Jr., blown the hell up in their trailer by a drone strike...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 12:17 PM

Well, we may find out someday...or we may not.

Looking at the situation around here (small town and rural), I think people would pull together, mostly help one another, and rapidly form community associations to get things reasonably in order....but things would not be good at all in the larger urban centres, because there is little or no sense of community there. There would be rioting, violence, gang warfare, and bloodshed in those places. A lot of refugees would start fleeing to the rural parts, and the rural people would have to deal with it somehow.

Eventually it would sort itself out one way or another, but a lot of people would suffer before it did.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 01:17 PM

Yeah, L.H.... I know you ain't into TeeVee but there was a show a couple years ago that was written about what you have described... It was called "Jericho"... Purdy interesting show... Guess that's why it didn't make it... LOL...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 02:17 PM

some responses to the authority programme imposed on europe have been quite interesting and positive with communities pooling resources in a collective and mutually supportive way. (see article in the guardian 'The Spanish Robin Hood' a few days ago) some areas is spain, greece,france eg have a history of communal (if not communist) organisation and anarchism. maybe workers organisations could be linked to the present with occupy and similar movements. it would be wonderful to think that we could step over the ruins of capitalism and re-organise ourselves in such a healthy and fraternal way, but.....it hardly seems likely,on any large scale anyway. more likely in the uk is a development along the lines of a (seemingly) more benign scandinavian model -where the excesses of the dead system are done away with (at least in theory) but the 'establishment' retain any power by appealing to the majority of brits with their love of NHS, fairness, gardens,countryside, BBC, tolerance etc. politicians will appear less harsh, more understanding and gain the support of the usually apathetic majority - then they will betray them. again.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 02:26 PM

Interesting question, Hank.

I wonder... are there lessons to be learned in studying what has/is taken/taking place in the Middle East?

Chipmonk hunting with assault rifles... I laughed and then...

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 02:38 PM

I have a friend here (fellow musician) who has boasted of killing hundreds of chimpmunks. If I could, I would arm the local chipmunks on his property so they could fight back on an equal basis.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 03:09 PM

Chimpmunk? Friends of Chongo?

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 03:16 PM

When we hit 'Peak Oil', very, very soon, we'll all find out. It'll be tougher in the US where you have to drive 5 miles in order to use the toilet (OK - the 'john').

Having said that lots of people in the UK would die in the first week - because they'd rather die than give up their cars.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 04:27 PM

"King? what king, I didn't vote for ya. I thot we were an ararchistic agrarian collective..."

Without government it would be good to be the guy that supplied the electricity.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 04:37 PM

I asked what YOU wanted to see. Not what you think might happen.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 05:00 PM

Hank... "I asked what YOU wanted to see. Not what you think might happen."

Indeed. I used to, as chairman, when having two or three dozen people trying to move their agenda forward in some discussion/meeting/conference, say loudly... "I believe we need to centralize this forum and focus on the reasons we are here so that we can get through this efficiently and get home to our families or glass of wine, as it may be, at a reasonable time. The sooner the better."

Same as you just did but a bit less terse. Not that I can't be terse... >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 06:08 PM

I'd like to see everyone's vote count. George Bush wouldn't have been able to steal the Presidency. He would have been beaten.
I'd like to have voted on the two stupid wars.
Most all the terrorists were Saudis. I would rather have attacked them.
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 06:12 PM

Attack your allies? That's not quite the way it's done. You attack THEIR enemies... when they can't... and they... well, you know. Global bitching is gonna destroy us all anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 06:18 PM

The Saudis aren't my allies.
My allies are the Rastafarians.
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 06:59 PM

I see that the US has care in the community too.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 07:23 PM

"The Saudis aren't my allies."

Hmmm... you buy gas?

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 07:56 PM

Just watch the Mad Max movies...

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 08:07 PM

Yup, Mad Max after the Thunderdome is the Ayn Rand model...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 03:28 AM

So.Mad Max is what you hope for??? I hope for more freedom.
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 03:30 AM

Late in the year for cuckoos

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 03:56 AM

we could make a (re)start with liberty, equality and fraternity -and compassion. and party. any of you aggressive, bigoted and greedy types who want to continue ripping everyone off can leave us alone, choose your own island and go f*ck yourselves!

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Musket
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 04:47 AM

When governments collapse, we vote in the next one.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 05:04 AM

Good peter. Someone finally understood what I was asking. They've all gone off and expressed their fears. Not their wants. I want to be able to express ideas without being censored, attacked, namecalled, cursed and edited.
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 11:36 AM

Lao-Tse said that "by opposing an enemy, you give him strength". He didn't mean that you won't necessarily win a specific battle or even a war with that enemy by opposing him...what he meant was that when you are hostile and aggressive toward other people, they get hostile and aggressive right back at you. They get riled up. Unpleasant consequences follow for both parties.

Therefore, a life that is based on fear, attack, accusation, hostility, and all forms of personal abuse of others becomes a life full of discord, disharmony, pain, and bad feelings of all sorts...and cause pain to others too.

That is a truth commonly ignored by a great many people on this forum, and it's the main thing that makes posting here a less than enjoyable experience a great deal of the time.

You get back exactly what you give out in life. That's true both in physics, where an action results in an equal and opposite reaction...and in life.

I've spent years trying to talk a whole slew of angry and defensive people here into not being such total shitheads toward those they disagree with about something. To no avail. They continue to react to other people's differing ideas with, as Henry says, namecalling, cursing, denigration of the other's character, and all forms of totally immature abuse of the other person.

What a shame it is. When I see it happening now, I usually just shake that dust off my shoes, quit posting to the thread and go do something else that makes me happy instead. It's easy to walk away from a useless and negative conversation. Try it. You'll see. And you won't have "lost" anything by doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 01:07 PM

You get high marks from me, little hawk.
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 01:10 PM

Could someone explain why the President Obama thread has been closed?

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 01:21 PM

Censorship, I believe. Criticize him and you're squelched.
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 01:56 PM

No, Henry, it was the general acrimonious tone of the thread as a result of your spittle-spraying attacks on those who don't agree with you.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 01:59 PM

Excellent, Don!

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 02:05 PM

GOP position on freedom:

1% get 100% of it...

99% get none...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 03:56 PM

If the government collapsed, I would just start another one.

1)I'd get somebody like Little Hawk to stand up and say all that conciliatory that stuff he always says, and point to him as "The New Hope".

2) I'd call Bobert and Gnu and Old Dude "The Three Kind Tough Guys", and have them talk about how, if we want a kinder, freer society, we've got to get tough with a small group of greedy opportunists and malcontents who have spoiled things for everybody, and caused the collapse in the first place.

3)Then I would gather up all the thugs and bullies and gun nuts and give them "New Hope" badges and march them through the streets, to gather up the greedy opportunists and malcontents and restore order for the public good.

4) With each new arrest, the "Three Kind Tough Guys" would talk about how we are building a new future by erasing the injustices of the past. Little Hawk could show everyone that we are finally creating a society that fullfills our ideals.

5) I would get someone like Henry Krinkle to lead armies of "Henry Krinkle Brigades" who plow under the playgrounds of the rich privileged and build large, new cinder block arenas "for all the people".

6) I'd temporarily close the universities and gather up all the lawyers (like say, Richard Bridge) and well meaning but misguided bleeding hearts, (like, say Don and Ebbie), who don't support "The New Hope", and find ways to help them to understand.

7) After months of chaos, I would slowly give everyone their old jobs back, only with less pay, and fewer benefits.

Any questions?

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 04:09 PM

I like it. I'm ready to start plowing.
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 04:24 PM

Hope you don't mind if you are, by some chance, martyred. I helps to keep moral up in the brigades;-)

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 04:31 PM

Naw. I'm a fighter. I chased 3 thugs down the street with a piece of steel pipe just last week. They ran like cowards.
It's kill or be killed. And I'm not ready to go yet.
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 04:39 PM

Does that mean that you don't mind being a martyr, or that you do mind? We would have asked Akenaton, but "Akenaton Brigades" sounds kind of like an Egyptian Volunteer Fire Department.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 05:30 PM

Do I have to die to be a martyr? Can't I just stub my toe or skin my knee?
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Allan Conn
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 05:40 PM

"If the government collapsed, I would just start another one."

well certainly here in the UK if the govt collapsed, that is if it completely lost the support of parliament, then there would be an election. Straight forward really! I wonder does the original poster mean if the political system itself collapsed which is a different scenario?

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 05:49 PM

I mean it went kaput. Anarchy. Maybe a nuclear attack. Or plague. Or no way to support it economically. Multiple cities here have gone bankrupt already..
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Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: Elmore
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 08:40 PM

I'd support Bernie Sanders and Barney Frank as co-dictators. They'd fix it.

Subject: RE: BS: If your government collapsed
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Aug 12 - 03:54 AM

Nobody knows......but hey, were all democrats here why should we worry.
Our politicians tell us everything is gonna be aaaaall right!!

Woo Hoo!!!