BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!

Subject: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 08:12 PM

Veterans are treated like trash! I am appalled! I am SO upset!

I have tears on my cheeks as I type.

I know posting this here may not help a lot but if it helps at all it means something to me and to the Vets who deserve FAR better.

Write, call, email, mail. This is unacceptable.

Anyone else non-Canuck wanna join in, feel free. This is not just a slap in the face of Canuck vets... ALL vets and ALL people who lived through conflicts the whole world over.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: bobad
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 08:42 PM

It's a total outrage, I agree. I found and signed this petition http://petition.liberal.ca/veterans-deserve-better/. It is sponsored by the Liberal Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 08:51 PM

I just signed it too.

This is the usual cynical action by the people in power. To them, it's all about the money.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:28 PM

I signed, and it seemed to work, but I don't know if it will be rejected because I had to give my US zip code where it asked for a postal code.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:33 PM

I signed it but I did not click the "Sign up as a Supporter - you could vote for the Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada" icon because this is NOT political. This is about PEOPLE! It's about good people who sacraficed and should NEVER be forgotten. And I am not just talking about those who served in the war. I have aunts and uncles (and cousins) who suffered the results of their spouses coming back from the wars torn and savaged by what what they endured.

I want to rant and rave and rage but I know it goes without saying.

I'll just say this... thanks Rick. Yer one of the good guys. Some shockin good buddy b'y!

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:39 PM

Done and e-mail sent to many.
Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 12:14 AM

I signed the petition as well.
I am away from home in the USA and I was here on Nov.11, so I missed going to my local cenotaph this year. In years past I would quickly return home afterwards, and due to time zone lag would be able to watch on TV the national broadcast from the War Memorial in Ottawa,then return to the local Legion branch, guitar in hand to join some friends entertaining the veterans. In recent years a sense shame overcame my sense of pride as I watched hypocritical members of our government stand at the Ottawa memorial beside our nation's heroes. All I could think of was Joyce Carter.
Now Joyce Carter is a lady from my home area who has led a struggle of veteran's widows for fair treatment by the Department Of Veterans Affairs. The senior ranks of Veterans Affairs is run by bean counters who don't give a shit for anyone but their political masters. Stevie Harper, in opposition, made a promise to Joyce Carter, in writing, that he would clean out this cesspool when elected. As PM Harper has turned his back on veterans and their widows to the extent that most requests for veteran's funeral expenses are now being denied.
Thanks to Rick Mercer for his rant and to gnu for posting it!
For more on the story I post these links and they barely scratch the surface:
Joyce
Joyce again
Caring For Veterans
Last Post Fund

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 12:28 AM

Okay, correct me if I've got this wrong ...

All this indignation is about closing separate DVA offices and adding veterans' services to the growing list of things we're supposed to get done at Service Canada storefronts?

If only they open enough Service Canada places, this could actually be a good idea. A hell of a lot of veterans live in places with no federal government presence at all, and have always done all their business with DVA by mail.

Of course, the iPhone app thing is just nonsense to the older generation of vets, but I'm a vet and I'm tapping away here on my iPad, and all the young folks I work with will be vets in the fullness of time, and they are quite comfortable doing business that way.

That's the thing about standing armies; they keep producing generation after generation of veterans. Some of our neediest veterans right now are under 40.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 09:52 AM

Signed, bobad.

Gnu, we have to remember this stuff come election time. Harper's government HAS TO GO!

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 11:15 AM

I remember a time in Canada that the term "Veteran" meant a retired military person who served in a field of conflict or war (mostly overseas). This was later expanded to those who did not leave Canada, but were in the military supporting a war (WW@).

Somehow, that definition seems to have changed - to a point that I suspect most do not know what it means anymore.

A neighbour of mine has a "Veteran" licence plate on the front of his car. When I asked him what it meant, he said he spent a year in the local army reserves at 16, and that he also served in the RCMP and worked as a civilian at DND (helping prepare solders for conflict) and Dept. of Veteran Affairs. He said that this allowed him to be referred to as a veteran.

So, what does it mean, and whom is it limited to in today's Canada?

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 12:51 PM

Ed, here's what I found.

New Definition of a Veteran

"VAC and the Department of National Defence (DND) have extended veteran status to former Canadian Forces members and Reserve Force members who:

meet DND's military occupational classification requirements (MOC-qualified); and
have been released from the Forces with an honourable discharge.
Veteran status recognizes the potential risk that Canadian Forces members assume by donning the uniform and pledging allegiance. Veteran status does not mean that all former members are eligible to receive VAC benefits and services. As in the past, access to VAC benefits and services will continue to be based on your eligibility status and need."

that is from


http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/salute/fall2001/definition

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 12:51 PM

You have a valid point regarding delivery of service by location, Charmion. However, the VAC offices are staffed by experienced, knowledgible people and appeals are available. I just can't see how this level of service can be maintained at each Service Canada office. One cannot conduct a face to face interview or a physical by mail so I think closing these specialized offices will reduce the level of service and availabilty of service. Of course, I could be wrong and I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has knowledge of such dealings.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 01:06 PM

Thanks 999, I wonder what "DND's military occupational classification requirements (MOC-qualified)" means. Maybe my neighbours one year stint in the army reserves as a lad qualified him as a Veteran, much the same as the troops in active conflict duty in Afghanistan?

As to Vetrens Affairs service, when my Dad retired (was a war Vet), and when there were plenty of them living,he received a veterans allowance, because of his service time injuries. The nearest Veterans Affairs office was an hours drive away and representatives were few. I can recall the travelling Vet's Canada representative calling by once a year or so. I also recall hearing my Dad talk of of significant delays when issues arose requiring a decision on related issues. He often resorted to driving the distance to move the paperwork forward - which seemed to be slow in those days.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 05:54 PM

Ed T and others:

"Military occupational training" means recruit school (10 weeks or so of boot camp) plus battle school (a comparatively new thing called Soldier Qualification, another four to six weeks) plus trade training, which ranges from four weeks to eighteen months, depending on whether you're a supply technician, a medic or a combat systems engineering technician. This is the program that turns a flat-faced civvy into a useful member of the Canadian Forces, and it can be interrupted by extended periods of on-job training (i.e., work) while you wait for the training system to find a spot for you in the right course.

The guy who was in the Militia and then the RCMP may be claiming veteran status on the strength of both, though it's unlikely that he completed military occupational training if he stayed in the Militia for as short a period as gnu reports. Being a DND civvy employee has no bearing on veteran status.

I served in the CF from 1972 to 1979, including two years in Germany, and got out to go to university. I became an official veteran some time during the 1990s, incidentally the same time they figured us Cold War people should have a campaign medal; mine came in the mail one day in 1994. We call it the Cold War Victory Medal with the 1,000-Beer-Per-Year Bar or, more simply, the Schnitzel Gong.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 06:08 PM

Sorry it's Ed T' who has neighbour flaunting a Veteran licence plate.

My husband and I both feel deeply ambivalent about those licence plates. He's still serving, and when he finally gets out will have more than 30 years in, including a tour in Germany and three deployments: Bosnia, Haiti and Afghanistan. Neither of us feels enough like a real veteran to put that plate on our car, although between us we have lots and lots of operational time in.

May be it's because we both grew up surrounded by "real" veterans ... and we didn't face the Nazis (thank God), so we ain't.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 07:13 PM

No disrespect to anyone having served or now serving Canada's military (my son joined the reserves at 16, and joined the Navy as soon as he graduated from University,where he now works/serves). It is just that when I was young, a veteran meant a veteran of war/conflict). I have no difficulty with a change, just did not understand it.

As I indicated earlier in a Rememerance Day thread, my Dad enlisted in WW1, and was badly injured during the Halifax explosionon - he was on a ship carrying troops to the European conflict. Later, when he was classified as a war veteran, I recall hearing some war veterans say that the classification should not have been given to those who never left Canada (I suspect some veterans were on coastal watch duties). But, those differences melted away and all War veterans eventually received the same respect from within.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: LadyJean
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 08:17 PM

Not being Canadian, I didn't sign the petition. But it is DISGRACEFUL! I don't know what the Canadian government is thinking! By the way. I thought you Canadians didn't like being called Canucks. When I was a teenager at Miss Sally Sutherland's School for Scottish Arts, some of the American kids learned this, and of course called the Canadians Canucks. The Canadians responded with, "Stop calling me a Canuck, you yankee!" You should have heard the kids from the south!

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 08:21 PM

"as gnu reports"? Charmion? Say what? I do not not understamd that.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 08:57 PM

LadyJean, I am a Canuck and proud of it. Any Canuck tells you otherwise ain't no Canuck. Some Yanks might take offense to being called Yanks but that's their problem. Same goes for all the other nicknames when not said in anger or derision... tho there are some that are just not acceptable because the very mention relates to an historical derision widely accepted as "EXCUSE ME? WTF?".

Yankee? Ya, I got a problem with that one. That is derisive... unless you post a smilely. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: LadyJean
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 09:15 PM

OK, in the U.S.A. Yankee is in the eye of the heholder.

To someone from the nort, midwest or west, a yankee is a New Englander, someone from Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, etc.

To someone from the south, a yankee is someone from the north. The word is, usually, prefaced with damn.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 10:07 PM

""As for whether or not calling us Canadians 'Canucks' is considered offensive, well I guess it really all depends on the individual being termed a Canuck and the tone and manner with which it has been said. As with every 'nickname' some people will be offended and some won't. (Most Canadians) are generally an easy-going bunch who are able to laugh a bit at ourselves and not take things *too* seriously. And so we might refer to ourselves as 'Canucks' in a joking manner. Basically, if any term, such as 'Brit', 'Yank' or whatever is said in a derogatory fashion, it will likely be deemed derogatory. A good rule of thumb is to use the terminology that is comfortable for both sides of the conversation—if the Canadians with whom you speak are happy being called Canucks, then it's probably safe to refer to them as such. And to err on the side of caution, just call us Canadians.""



Source:

Canuck

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: meself
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 11:23 PM

I don't think most Canadians care one way or the other about the term 'Canuck' - in fact, many are probably unfamiliar with it. I've rarely encountered it.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Charmion
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 06:59 AM

Sorry, gnu; I attributed something Ed T said to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 08:49 AM

"I thought you Canadians didn't like being called Canucks."

Depends whether it has a disparaging adjective preceding it. One of our hockey teams (Vancouver) carries the name.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: meself
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 10:55 AM

Oh yeah - forgot about the hockey team - I guess almost all Canadians ARE familiar with the term now - but I'm sure that for most, they think of it firstly as a team name.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: gnu
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 01:05 PM

Charmion... please try not to do that on Saturday evening. Confuses the hell out of me. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: meself
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 06:27 PM

Back to the original topic - I don't want to talk about some of the shabby treatment my father received from the DVA in his last days - but there is a bigger question: why shouldn't ALL old people be able to end their days with a reasonable measure of comfort and dignity in a society as wealthy as ours?

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 06:48 PM

Being one of those people, I agree, meself. Good question.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: gnu
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 08:14 PM

meself... I am with ya on that one!

Lets' start with vets getting screwed over. Late summer, before my uncle entered hop, my Aunt got a call. Sorry, we can only pay so much per hour for services you have been receiving so we won't pay you any more. They lived out of town. NO way anyone would take that job at the wages DVA would pay! Well, surely they had relatives that could help? No, but what if they kept the services thay had and paid the differece? No, because DVA had to have receipts they could pay in full and maybe they could pay the difference and get the receipts made out for those amounts? Now, is that income tax fraud on behalf of the service suppliers? How could a fed rep even suggest that? AND threaten to NOT PAY for any more services?

I guess my arguement is, if a vet who served in war cannot get a fair shake, no way anyone else will. To me, it's a starting point.

And I am with ya all the way. The government treats people like shit. It's pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 08:50 PM

When I was in University in the early 70's, I encountered a close friend of my older brother, who had quit after many years as an officer in the Air Force (he was in his early 30's). He planned a new career as a school teacher. When I asked him why he left the Air Force, if it was that he disliked the profession. What he said starteled me. He said that he left because he was tired of being treated and seen as a second class citizen in society.

Now, I realize the 70's mood was impacted by the Vietmam war and the so-called Peace movement. But, his statement struck me and stuck with me. Outside of celebrating those who fought in wars, I wonder if there is not a "bit of truth" to what he said. (I have noted negativity towards the military in cities and towns near some military bases (Gagetown-Fredericton, St. Jean Richileau Quebec and even Victoria, while Halifax seems to embrace its naval folks).

Maybe Canada and Canadians, outside of war and wartime, are not that supportative of our Military and Military citizens at all? If that is the case (and I am open to a contrary viewpoint), does it explain government approaches to veterans, treat tham like other civil servants once they leave the Forces as their usefullness has expired?


I came accross this related article which I found interesting:


THE MILITARY IN CANADIAN SOCIETY

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 12:38 AM

Here is a little something to add to this thread.

Today was the third Sunday of the month and thus (I like to use that word sometimes.)it was fiddling time at the Café Namasthe in Ormstown Quebec. Well what an afternoon it was. Fiddlers form all over the Province as well form New York State. In fact, one of the fellows from N/Y was the State champion a few years back. I only got his first name which was Donald.
Now to the point. I was playing along on the guitar when I noticed an elderly gentleman tapping away with his fingers to the rhythm. I also noticed that he was wearing a jacket with a Legion Crest on it. I eventually got over to him and asked how he like the afternoon of fiddling. He said that he just loved it and proceeded to tell me that he was a fiddler himself. I asked if he would like to join in for a tune and he agreed. I went over to Chris Crilly (999 you know him well.) and asked if the gentleman over there could join in and play a tune on his fiddle. After a few numbers I helped him back to his seat and he thanked me. He proceeded to tell me that he was 92. I asked how he got to the Cafe and he said, "well I drove of course." I asked if he drove at night but he said no. to dangerous. I asked because there is a fiddler coming in next Friday to play. I will go and pick him up.
Here he is and I hope the blue clicky works.
Oh! and his name is Mr. Gallipeau. Some spellings are with one "L"

https://plus.google.com/photos/105264597814788639848/albums/5812381839053046433#photos/105264597814788639848/albums/581238183905

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 07:55 AM

Link not working, Ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 08:49 AM

Works at this end. Must be locked. Now to find out how to unlock it.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 08:57 AM

Let us try again.
a href="https://plus.google.com/photos/105264597814788639848/albums/5812381839053046433#photos/105264597814788639848/albums/581238183905">https://plus.google.com/photos/105264597814788639848/albums/5812381839053046433#photos/105264597814788639848/albums/581238183905

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 08:58 AM

a href="https://plus.google.com/photos/105264597814788639848/albums/5812381839053046433#photos/105264597814788639848/albums/5812

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 08:59 AM

I give up.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: bobad
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 09:18 AM

Ad, the s in https means that it is a secure site that you need permission to access. If these are photos you have access to maybe you can download them and re up them to your photo sharing site.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 09:38 AM

It's a video Bob. One last try. It does say it is unlocked so it should work.
ad.

https://plus.google.com/photos/105264597814788639848/albums/5812529313474886161?authkey=CKX9of6d9KL2mAE

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: rumanci
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 09:49 AM

Yeah - it works! and it was worth waiting for. Thanks A.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 09:56 AM

Thanks Rum. I guess I wanted to share this because he is a WW1 veteran and he was sure enjoying the outing.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: bobad
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 10:34 AM

Excellent! Thanks Ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: meself
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 10:41 AM

Thanks - always great to hear such solid playing from nineties-genarian.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 01:22 PM

Crowd anxiously awaiting unveiling of Stephen Harper statue.

(With thanks to Beer.)

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 02:02 PM

You will have to show me 999 how you did that.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 02:26 PM

Ad, I never link anything from email. So, I located the photo on Google Images (first one didn't work but the second one did). As for making a link (blue clicky) on Mudcat, we'll do that whenever you have a few minutes. It's easy really, but ya gotta do it a few times.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 03:31 PM

Adrien, your friend Mr Gallipeau can't be a First World War veteran -- if he's 92 today, he was only eight years old when the Armistice was signed.

Even for the infantry, even in 1918, that was a little young.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: meself
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 03:45 PM

Maybe he lied about his age - did you ever think of that?

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: gnu
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 04:01 PM

Thanks, Beer.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 04:45 PM

Very nice.

I believe he must have meant WW2-as I believe all the WW1 veterans are now gone, except spouses, that is. My long ago deceased Dad was WW1, being born in 1998. My "very much living Mom" is many years younger than my Dad, and is now 97.

Subject: RE: BS: Calling ALL Canucks... another outrage!
From: Beer
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 04:48 PM

My apologies. Definitely WW11
Adrien