BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold

Subject: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 09:57 PM

By 138 votes to nine to be precise. OK, I know Hamas were scornful of the Abbas wheeze, but what fun to see Israel and the US, and yes lackey Canada too in this instance, so hopping mad! There is comfort for the naysayers, however, in the knowledge that Micronesia and the Marshall Islands etc are right behind them.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 10:05 PM

This is the only path toward making everyone safer in the region...

The US and Israel are acting out out of old-school thinking and not willing to move into the new century...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: gnu
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 10:20 PM

Lackey Canada? WTF? Please don't tell me you think we take our marching orders from the US. We take our marching orders from Her Majesty and so does the US. Her Majesty abstained from the vote. Her minions do what they are told to do. Nothing more or less.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 10:52 PM

I was thinking of this, gnu:

Palestine votes NO and threatens retaliation

Sometimes it's not quite clear to me whether it is the US or Israel from which Canada takes its orders. (The UK bravely thumbed its nose at the US this once, and registered a timid abstention.)

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 10:56 PM

Oh... apologies. I'm not sure what I did there. Let me try again....

Palestine votes NO and threatens retaliation

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: gnu
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 11:08 PM

Link no work, Peter.

The US or Israel? Neither. Canada marches where their owners tell them to march. The same for the owners of the US. Do so many not know who owns Canada and the US? Goodness me! Ya think the Brits really ever gave up FINANCIAL contol of either?

I dunno why I have to keep trying to get this point across. The US and Canada and at least 25 other nations on earth do what Her Majesty says they will do because she OWNS them. If you don't believe it, trace the corporations that OWN land and HUGE companies in over 50 countries. It ain't rocket science. When BP says we need to blow the shit of of Libya, guess what happens. ROCKET SCIENCE!

As far as Canada being such a shit about the vote, it pisses me off but it DOES NOT surprise me.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: bobad
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 11:12 PM

"It is a tragedy to think that if the Arab leadership had not rejected the UN partition resolution at the time – and launched a war against the nascent Jewish state – we would today be commemorating the 65th anniversary of two states for two peoples, without the pain and suffering of the last 65 years."

Today could have been Palestine's 65th birthday

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: mg
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 11:49 PM

Good.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:13 AM

First time in history that Palestine gets to be a state or a nation or anything legal according to what I grew up calling the white man's papers (well, papiers de blanc). Wow. Bully for the UN.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 05:05 AM

Great news.
But shame on the UK for feebly abstaining but what more can we expect from the likes of William Haig.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 05:56 AM

I attach a transcript of Arafat's 1974 speech to the UN. I recommend the introduction be skipped, as it may not do the speech justice.


Arafat speech to UN_1974

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 06:28 AM

I was at a political forum tonight. A friend said it is being suggested that US ambassadors around the world did not strongly (emphasis on strongly) advocate for a "yes' vote over this issue, as a payback by Obama for Netahanyu openly supporting Romney during the recent presidential campaign.

I guess it's hard when a supposed ally speaks out against you in a re-election campaign. Netahanyu is coming under strong criticism in Israel for messing up the relationship with the States.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:14 AM

When the UN took a huge chunk of Arab land and gave it to their worst enemy, they set in motion a fight that has lasted 65 years. Enough! They both deserve to have their own country. Make no mistake, I stand behind Israel,for the sake of justice, and I stand behind the Arabs for equal justice.
We need to get our nose out of other people's business.We can no longer afford it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:19 AM

"huge chunk" compared to what?
It is tiny, and lost in the vastness of Arab land.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:20 AM

He's more than messed up the relationship with the States Freda. He's messed up the relationship with the Jewish lobby in the States.

I'm bemused by your other point. Was your friend implying that some US ambassadors might have been advocating support for Palestinian accession to observer status, albeit not strongly?

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:45 AM

Peter, he was implying that the US deliberately didn't try too hard on Israel's behalf on this one.

Kendall, you said it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:13 AM

Maybe tiny in relation to the total Arab land in the same way that, say, Andorra is tiny in realtion to European land; however, it is cerainly not tiny in relation to what was Palestine. And illegally still growing.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:37 AM

I note that Hillary is huffing and puffing (only because she can feel the hot breath of AIPAC on her neck, of course). Nothing is going to change. A two-state solution is belly-up now. In fact, any solution is impossible because the unconditional military aid that Israel receives from the US immunises them from having to talk peace (which would mean compromises, which Israel famously does not make, and never will unless forced). Israel's leaders want the best West Bank land and water far too much for that. The easy route for Netanyahu et al. is to declare that Hamas are terrorists, the US agrees, we don't talk to terrorists, so, end of.

Who was it who said that there's no point just talking to your friends. You have to talk to your enemies. It might or might not have been Ian Paisley. Or Gerry Adams. Or Margaret Thatcher. Whoever it was, I don't think it was an Israeli politician.

And, in matters of principle, Keith, it doesn't matter how "tiny" you think it is, does it? How would you like it if Iran annexed the Isle of Wight?

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:44 AM

So, is it accurately described as a huge chunk of Arab land, or even of Palestine?

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:50 AM

Stick to the bloody point just for once.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:54 AM

Sorry.
Just asking Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 09:02 AM

"huge chunk" compared to what?
It is tiny, and lost in the vastness of Arab land.

England is a small chunk of European land. Lets give them that instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 09:34 AM

Britain did not set up a Jewish homeland Jim, but small as we are Jewish refugees fled to Britain before the outbreak of war in 1939 to escape Hitler from Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia. They were the first sizable group of refugees in the successive waves of immigration that flowed into Britain from the middle decades of the last century. By 1939, Britain was playing host to over 60,000 some 50,000 of whom settled permanently. They were joined after 1945 by a smaller group of Jews who had survived the Holocaust in Europe.

And the Kindertransport was a unique humanitarian programme which ran between November 1938 and September 1939. Approximately 10,000 children, the majority of whom were Jewish, were sent from their homes and families in Austria, Germany, Czechoslovakia and Poland to Great Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 09:39 AM

Sorry, that was for Jack, not Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 10:10 AM

"""huge chunk" compared to what?
It is tiny, and lost in the vastness of Arab land.""

So you would raise no objection at all if the electricity board came along and snatched a chunk of your garden for a transformer compound?

It's entirely immaterial what size chunk is stolen from you, you have a right to object.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 10:18 AM

You have all convinced me.
Israel has no right to exist.
What shall we do about it?
What shall we do with those 6 million Jews.
Any previous experience we could draw on?

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 10:19 AM

And the larger number of Jews driven out of the Arab nations after 1948 DON"T have ANY rights at all, especially not the right to live without random antipersonnel rockets being aimed at them, Don T.?

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 10:37 AM

To be honest, Keith, you deserve to be ignored from now on following that stupid and offensive post.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:26 PM

Where did Don say that Beardie? Or are you just being an ass?

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:32 PM

I can't believe that no-one has made this juxtaposition: -

UN recognition of Palestine

Israel's response

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:54 PM

Good. And about time.

gnu - Your comments about the UK's financial control of Canada and America are interesting, and I think you might be right. London is still the real financial centre of the western world, just like it always has been, and the British Crown is at the helm. It was also in the UK that the Zionist movement was historically nurtured and set in motion, correct? Another interesting factor. What if they had chosen a piece of Brazil, Argentina, India, China or Mexico upon which to build a future Jewish state? What would the reaction of the local people have been to that? Not a very friendly one, I'm guessing! But, hey, the Middle East has Biblical connections...and it's full of oil too. That coincided with the vital strategic interests of a British Empire that desperately needed the oil...but was clearly approaching the end of the great colonial era when it could just rule places like Iraq or Iran by a British military presence and colonial administration. Something had to be done to secure a permanent and powerful foothold in the region for the UK and to keep Russia (and someday China) out. Israel is the West's nuclear-armed policeman to dominate that whole region by the iron fist of military force, and they've been doing their job faithfully ever since 1948....or else the West is their policeman. Sometimes it's a little hard to tell if the dog is wagging the tail or the tail is wagging the dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 01:04 PM

The situation of an - imposed by armed force - Western Jewish colony established in a predominantly Islamic part of the Middle-East a number of decades ago, is just the same as the Protestant colony set up in what was Catholic Northern Ireland several hundred years ago.

While they may initially serve a divisive political purpose, plantations simply don't work for PEOPLE or politics, in the long run. Northern Ireland aught to have taught us that.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 01:06 PM

tiny but had ports and access to sea.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 01:20 PM

Can't get the second link to work RB, but I did read today that following the UN acceptance of Palestine as an 'observer status' nation, Israeli govt. gave it's blessing to 3000 new builds for European and American settlers in the West Bank. Sometimes I believe that the only think that could calm this increasingly dangerous situation down is the economic collapse of the US. The end of US military billions and Israel would have to wind it's pugalistic neck in. No Israel and US storming about pissing off Arabs in the Middle East, and the rest of the world can chill out for a bit.. Bring on the death of Western Capitalist economies, it can't happen quick enough for everyone's future grandchildren's chance of surviving.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 02:05 PM

Canada has allowed the U.S. to influence them on foreign policy since the governing administration has become considerably more Right-Wing than earlier.

The rest of the world knows what's going on and there are a few countries with vested interest in Israel's war-making industry that are balking at the UN decision.

There can be no rational negotiations between just Israel and Palestine and the US is not an honest broker. The UN is the only hope for a peaceful settlement but Israel doesn't really want this. They want to expand at Palestinian expense.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 02:10 PM

The problem-solving has to start in the US. There is so much wrong. Media that so overwhelmingly belong to Israel that the American people hear only one side. Israel lobby groups, led by AIPAC, which have a thoroughly undemocratic stranglehold (in the Land Of The Free!) on all politicians. Military financial aid to Israel that is unconditional. A US that is serially complicit in the trickery which has been the only substance of the bogus talks of recent years. A US that is complicit in the utterly useless stance that Hamas are terrorists, we don't talk to terrorists, so we don't talk. It matters not a bloody jot whether that is true or not. One day Hamas will have to be brought to the table whether Israel and the US like it or not. There is no-one else to talk to fer chrissake. The IRA had to be talked to at the height of their anti-British posturing. They were brought to the table and look what we have now. Not perfect but a damn sight better than before and a damn sight fewer people's lives being ruined, yet no-one's "charter" has been scrapped (listening, Keith 'n' Bobad??) If ever there was a good time for politicos' heads to be banged together, it's right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 03:13 PM

"Media that so overwhelmingly belong to Israel that the American people hear only one side."

The stranglehold of exclusively pro-Israel MSM is now breaking with the huge impact that more democratic 'alternative media' is currently having. Hilary Clinton not so long ago bemoaned the fact that the US were "losing the information war". The internet snuck up on 'em like a err freedom fighter in the night, and the big corporations, lumbering giants that they are, have yet to mobilise themselves to respond effectively to the liberating impact alt. media has had across the world. Even the comments in the daily mail (I often check out the comments sections of different newspapers to see where the groundswell of popular opinion amongst the readership lies) were overwhelmingly supportive of the move. Which I feel is telling. There remain strongholds of popular right-wing pro-Israel sentiment of course, but those places are increasingly out on a lonely limb, like in Canada for example, as well as Israel itself of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:25 PM

Keith, have you ever read the "Balfour Declaration?

Terrorists? let's not forget that George Washington was a terrorist to England's George the third. It's all a matter of where you stand.

When Israel said, "Never again", they meant it, and I don't blame them.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:26 PM

I hope you're right. Certainly, there are respects in which social networking and greater access to media world-wide can be beneficial. Even the Chinese struggle to keep us all out. There is still the need for many people to have to actively search for balanced reporting, and an awful lot of people simply don't have the motivation to do so and are happy to settle for what they are force-fed (note, for example, the fact that 40% of yanks believe that evolution is false). I must say that the UK is still very poor in this regard apropos of the middle east, and the level of debate on tonight's Any Questions almost made me bloody weep, to be honest.

It is also depressing to note that Israel's government, cynically as ever, chose today to announce another 3,000 homes planned in illegal settlements. I recall them doing a similar thing when Obama was in Jerusalem on his state visit. Posturing of that sort speaks volumes about their lack of interest in any meaningful peace process. We are a million miles away from peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:27 PM

Sorry, that was a response to CS.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:37 PM

"When Israel said, "Never again", they meant it, and I don't blame them. "

I wish they had meant "Never again" for everyone and not just for Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:57 PM

"I wish they had meant "Never again" for everyone and not just for Jews."

Amen to that. The sad irony of course is that due to the actions of the Israeli government in relation to the Palestinians, Israel is fast becoming one of the world's least liked or trusted states and that has a negative knock-on effect to Jews (both of Israeli and international origin) who may oppose the actions of the Israeli state as vigorously as the next man. Increasingly I see barely veiled anti-Semitic sentiment expressed in numerous corners of the web. The damaging PR that Israel's actions are continuing to cause, is of real and understandable concern to many Jews. People are all "holocausted out" (to borrow a phrase I heard a while back) and no amount of referencing the tragedies of the past can continue to justify the crimes of the present. Those old cynical diversionary strategies are no longer working. Unless Israel wants to find itself in the very place it fears the most, it needs to stop playing the brat and start honest discussions with it's neighbours. There will come a time when it's Western sponsors will tire of it, no longer be able to fund it, or it will outwear it's usefulness as a strategic satellite. It would be better for all, and for Jews especially, if it started figuring that out sooner rather than later.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:57 PM

Yes, CS and RB, Israel's immediate response was to authorise 3,000 more houses in occupied territory, and not just any ocupied territory but territory chosen to thwart any remaining prospect for a contiguous Palestinian state.

Little Hawk, it may have been the UK that gave the world the Balfour declaration, but even that far back it was the US that was pulling the strings. Britain was at that time (1917) desperate for financial support from wealthy Jewish interests, most of which were in the States, and from the US admin. (Wilson's two closest buddies were virulent Zionists.)

I am not against an Israeli state; I go along with what Kendall said. But I am against any Jewish state, and indeed against theocracies of any kind. I am also against any state that tramples on human rights and international law in the way that Israel does persistently. This puts me in the company of many Jews in the US who hold similar views. It is too easy to assume American Jews are all extremist Zionists of Keith-like mentality, ready to exploit the holocaust at every opportunity.

Even if Keith's entire family died in Belsen it would not excuse his using the Nazi atrocities to justify today's horrors. Watch this stunning three minutes Keith, and pay attention: it's aimed straight at you.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: gnu
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 05:09 PM

Stringsinger... "Canada has allowed the U.S. to influence them on foreign policy since the governing administration has become considerably more Right-Wing than earlier."

Huh? Read my post above. LH did and, with his subsequent post, it's the first time someone gave my postulate credence AT ALL. You read about the Irish situation above and what that post means? It's simple history... it's simply "why" this shit happens. $ & who has those $.

Anyone who thinks it's anything else and anyone who thinks the Yanks or the Canucks do not take their marching orders from "she who wears the crown" (yes, she IS a figurehead) is not open to what I believe is the way it is.

$ rules. Don't matter WHO represents the $. The Kings and Queens of England or Spain or Denmark or East Overshoe, New Brunswick or the Pope or the Shaw or the whoever. The corporations that ruled the US and Canada before their independence still rule them. They are owned by Brits. The Brits tell the Yanks and the Canucks what to do, when to do it and how to do it. Simply, the US does not influence Canada unless Beth says it does because she represents the $ that own their asses.

It really is that simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:19 PM

A really good, measured post, Peter. :-

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:12 PM

Doesn't anybody here read carefully?

"welcomed"

As a non-member observer state.

Yes, it's an upgrade.

However, "welcomed into the UN fold" is just what you'd expect on Mudcat, the motherlode of hyperbole.   Just a tiny bit of exaggeration.

Let's see what happens now.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:16 PM

Not only that Peter, it puts you in the company of many Jews in ISRAEL who hold similar views.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: bobad
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:27 PM

A dissenting voice to counter the groupthink on display here. The author is a former Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada who is a an expert on international law and human rights law.

"declarations opposing the Palestinian unilateral bid for observer-state status can be said to be anchored in a series of foundational principles and related precedents of international law, including:

First, such a unilateral Palestinian resolution would undermine existing and accepted international frameworks for peace, such as UN Security Council resolutions 242, 338, and 1850; the Roadmap for Peace; and various statements by the Quartet (the UN, the U.S., the European Union and Russia), all of which call for a mutually negotiated and agreed-upon resolution of the conflict while rejecting unilateralism.

Second, it violates existing Israeli-Palestinian bilateral agreements, most notably the Oslo II agreements of September 28th 1995, which state that "neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the Permanent Status negotiations" (Article 31). Simply put, Israel and the PLO undertook to resolve any disagreements through bilateral negotiation, and such a unilateral Palestinian resolution amounts to a material breach of this foundational undertaking.

Third, the Israeli-Palestinian bilateral Interim Agreement was signed not only by Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization, but it was witnessed by the UN itself together with the EU, the Russian Federation, the U.S., Egypt and Norway. Accordingly, it would be highly inappropriate for such witnesses to now authorize a UN measure that would effectively violate this agreement, let alone the major resolutions of the UN Security Council and the Quartet itself.

Fourth, the Palestinian resolution – and concomitant UN General Assembly vote – might well unravel the institutionalized legal and administrative framework that underpins existing Israeli-Palestinian relations, and which include bilateral arrangements in over 40 spheres of civilian activity, serving as a basis for economic, political, legal and security co-operation.

Fifth, if such UN General Assembly recognition were to take place while Hamas is the ongoing authority in Gaza – and in control of Gazan territory and the Gazan people – it would effectively amount to recognition of Hamas itself. Yet Hamas is defined as a terrorist organization by Canada, the U.S. and European countries. Also, Hamas continues to reject the basic requirements of the international community for the conferral of any legitimacy upon it, such as Hamas recognizing Israel's right to exist, forswearing terrorism and accepting previous international agreements.

Sixth, and as a corollary, the Palestinian Authority does not yet meet the criteria spelled out under the 1993 Montevideo Convention for statehood, including a defined territory, effective government, and adherence to the rule of law. Indeed, a premature recognition of an "unripe" Palestinian state could have a prejudicial effect on other regional conflicts.

Seventh, such premature and precipitous UN recognition might well have the effect, as President Obama and others have stated, of prejudicing, rather than enhancing, Palestinian rights and Palestinians' legitimate claim to statehood; also, it might well generate false expectations that will not be realized, with Palestinians' aspirations being frustrated rather than fulfilled.

Eighth, the Palestinian resolution purports to presuppose, and prejudge, the outcome of negotiations on such critical issues as borders and the status of Jerusalem, which were to be decided in direct negotiations between the parties. Indeed, in President Abbas' UN address of September 27th 2012 – and in his comments since – he spoke of "the realization of the independence of the State of Palestine, with East Jerusalem as its capital, over the entire territory occupied by Israel since 1967."

Ninth, by Abbas' own acknowledgement, the Palestinian Authority is seeking Observer State status not so much to solve the conflict, as for the "internationalization of the conflict as a legal matter, not only as a political one." In a word, President Abbas may well seek to invoke the International Criminal Court for politicized "lawfare" prosecutions against Israeli nationals, an adversarial initiative inimical to a peace process organized around bilateral negotiations.

Accordingly, only an immediate return to direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians – and one based on the principle of mutual recognition of two states for two peoples – will invite the establishment of the just and lasting peace that we all seek. Indeed, it would be the supreme irony if the UN General Assembly were to circumvent the legal and political imperatives of direct negotiations leading to such an outcome precisely on the 65th anniversary of its earlier UN partition resolution, which the Arab leadership rejected then, and the Palestinian leadership, regrettably, is undermining now.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: gnu
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:33 PM

Bobad... thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestine welcomed into the UN fold
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:46 PM

The only thing is you can not really negotiate with an occupier of your homeland, and one that can turn of the spigot. I think there are dangers to be sure, but it had to be done.