BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why

Subject: BS: debt limit. can anybody explain why
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 05:53 PM

Can any of our more conservative members explain to me why there should be a vote on debt limits? Seems to me that the debts have already been incurred by the same Congressmen who are voting on whether or not to pay them. Saving money by not payuing what you owe down't work well, as far as I can tell. Can someone edify me?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 06:07 PM

I'm not a conservative.

However, it seems pretty plain to me that the entire system as it presently exists is built upon having created absolutely unpayable levels of debt, created through absolutely irresponsible monetary policies (issuing fiat currency with no real intrinsic value whatsoever and buying REAL stuff with it!), and all the politicians keep doing is kicking the can a few more feet down the road to delay the inevitable demise of this debt-ridden phony money game. They haven't got the guts to face the music or to face the public reaction to being confronted with the real situation, so they try sticking on another temporary bandaid which will hold them for another few months or years. To raise the debt ceiling is just to delay the eventual reckoning. The debt cannot be dealt with. It wasn't built upon fiscal reality in the first place. It is the end result of a pyramid scheme perpetrated by the largest banks in the world, with the collusion of goverments who let them do it by de-regulating the rules that govern lending.

When empires reach a point like this, they either collapse...experience a revolution...or they go to war...and collapse awhile later, after a great deal of terrible bloodshed and destruction.

I am not very hopeful about this scenario. Nope, I have no solution, and neither do you, because we aren't in a position to provide one. We're just talking, like people do, because we like to talk. It helps to briefly let off some of the pressure.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 06:25 PM

1. The government MUST supply some services.
2. These services MUST be paid for.
3. That means taxes.
4. The costs go up.
5. Therefore taxes should go up.
6. No politician wants to be known as the person who raised taxes.
7. Therefore, borrow the money!
8. But the money must be paid back.
9. Not while I'm in Congress!

Congress is more popular than diarrhea and gonorrhea, but not by much.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 06:34 PM

There is nothing wrong with debt if it allows a society to become more competitive...

Almost every small businessman knows that debt is part of being in business... I mean, when a company goes public and sells stock that is debt...

No, debt isn't the enemy...

Nor is a currency that isn't backed by beads, or conch shells or gold...

It the way the real world works...

Yes, like anything that works, too much can work against you, your company or your nation... Think Greece here...

The US is not Greece... It produces more in one day than Greece produces in a year...

And, dick, there is no reason whatsoever why anyone thinks that the US can refuse to pay it's bills...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 06:47 PM

The Tea Party are idiots whose ideology trumps their patriotism.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 07:42 PM

"And, dick, there is no reason whatsoever why anyone thinks that the US can refuse to pay it's bills."

There is a reason. A number of lunatics in the Congress are using the faith and credit of the USA as a poker chip.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 11:16 PM

Bobert, I just read your '10 Jan 13 - 06:34 PM' post. You did everything in it except answer the OP's question.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 04:41 AM

First Congress decides to spend money on something. After they get it, they have to decide whether or not to pay the bill. Sounds like one of my children. This debt limit BS is just a gimmick to screw with the President. Obama should just invoke the 14th Amendment to our Constitution and ignore the unconstitutional "debt limit".

Taxes are needed to pay for the pork these idiots vote for, but none of them want to raise taxes, so they borrow the money. If the Bush tax cuts had never been passed, we would have paid off the National debt in approximately 2006. But now, none of them have the guts to make the leap to higher tax rates for the wealthy. I don't expect any better of them this time either.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 07:43 AM

The biggest contributor to why the US keeps bumping its head on the debt ceiling is INTEREST on the public debt.

Even if Congress were willing (or gutsy enough) to refrain from spending more than comes in, we'd still have a recurrent debt ceiling problem (absent a stringent tax rise), because of the compound interest on the debt which Congress has built up over many decades, and the interest on it, and the interest on the interest load.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 08:41 AM

Bobert, you said:

Yes, like anything that works, too much can work against you, your company or your nation... Think Greece here...

The US is not Greece... It produces more in one day than Greece produces in a year...

That last sentence means nothing much. What chiefly matters is the proportion of the debt to the national production. As the US is bigger and more productive than Greece, its very size has made possible the growth of a far greater debt.

I'm not an economist or fiscal wonk, but I do gather that Greece is proportionately in worse shape than the US. But we seem to be headed there.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 09:07 AM

Okay, for ya'll who didn't like my first answer...

There are three reasons why we shouldn't have a debt limit:

The first involves Section 4 the 14th amendment which guarantees the US will pay its bills... That's the legal reason...

The second is that, as we saw last year, even the threat of default causes our credit rating to be downgraded which hurts the general health of our economy... That's the economic reason...

Lastly, it is Congress that votes on all expenditures, not the president, and therefore holding anyone other then themselves responsible for paying those bills is just wrong... That is the moral reason...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 09:27 AM

I believe that the original intent of the debt limit was to curtail the tendency of congress to rack up debt in order to provide "pork" for their voters without much care for where or how the bills would get paid.

It didn't work out the way it should because congress acts like the debt limit is like a credit card limit and spends up to the max & only pays off the minimum payment... increasing the total debt of the nation thanks to interest.

The conservatives regard "entitlement programs" as charity... forgeting, by choice, that Medicare & Social Security are paid into by the receipents for themselves or their dependents. Their fat cat supporters would just LOVE to get a piece of the $$$$, so they support the wingnuts because it suits their agenda.

So the answer is that greed & avarice disguised as social agenda are the reason why things are this dysfunctional. Create an artifical money crisi for the Postal Service - then watch to see who "volunteers" to take on the so called money loser. Smoke & mirrors... shell game... it's con artists making their moves.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: ollaimh
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 11:55 AM

actually in proportion to it's size greece is in about the same shape as the united states. you have had decades of deficits since regean and especially under bushII that swelled the total debt to a pont whhere the unted states can never repay it.

this was done by a congress that is in hawk to wall street dominated financiers. the result has been a transfer of trillions of dollars to walls street finaciaers and to major military contractors while leaving the american people with the bill. much of the transfer would have been illegal beofre the regean. bush and clinton "reforms" of the financial system.

the debt limit is arbitrary. it is set by congress. i know of no other country that has a debt limit. if they vote for a budget that borrows money and adds to the debt then that's the only vote. the debt limit is a show piece so congress can pretend they are trying to fight the debt. this after they actually voted all the borrowing in the first place. however americans are now in a deply delusional place about what is happening in the world. america has been borrowing by the trillions to maintain a worthless world wide military since the seventies. that's the real debt. having military bases all over the world and conducting immoral and unnecessary wars. how do get out of this spiral--well you don't. financiers comntraoll the democratic process so the only way out is down through the drain as the system colapses--which will happen . just like the soviet union. it might take ten or fifteen years. with good management the system could last even twenty years. however if you are under fifty you are going to see a north american depression that will make the dirty thirties look like celebration. get ready. no one in the world is going to help. all the countries you invaded are going to celebrate.

you could join the occupy movement in mass. millions of people could over throw this corrupt sature of democracy,and thow the financiers in jail along with the big corporations and their executives that created this system.   however i don't see it hapopening. the vast majority of americans are so deeply delusional about what is going on they will ride the collapse right down to the bottom and blame, obama, masons, new world order, zog, canada! anyone but themselves. you let your democracy be highjacked by highway robbers. people get the governmant they deserve. right here on mudcat, where i suspect the views are more liberal than most we have regular racist and bihoted attacks, and the crassest ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 12:42 PM

Right on the mark on those last 2 posts. Nothing more needs to be said.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 01:02 PM

The differencee between the US and Greece, the differences that count, are that the US is deemed by the markets to be credit worthy while the Greece is not. And the US has control of its currency, while Greece does not.

The US is paying less than one percent for the money it borrows. Greece, if the rest of the Eurozone had not intervened would be paying over 10%.

If Greece still had its own currency then their problem would more or less solve its self their currency would fall. Their goods and services would become relatively cheaper. Greeks would be forced to buy more at home and tourists and importers would spend more in Greece leading to more jobs in Greece and more income from the government.



So what does this mean in terms of the debt limit you may ask. Dave O is right in that the compounded interest on the debt is a factor but at present interest rates its below 200 billion. About an eighth of the 1.6 trillion dollar deficit.   If the yield on treasuries go up to say 8 percent it could represent on the order of half of a 2.5 trillion dollar deficit. At 8% cost of borrowing with doubt placed on our faith and credit. Not only would our debt be increased to crushing levels but the major tools we have to mitigate the problem would be taken away. That is the problem with using the so called "debt limit" as a bargaining chip. Any way you look at it it make the problem worse.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 01:11 PM

I'm not asking about whether or not we should be incurring debts. I'm asking for any rationale for having to vote on whether we pay them or not. THe Debt Ceiling vote was apparently instituted in 1918, and had to do whether or not the US would fulfill its obligations to returning veterans. I'm specifically asking for this rationale from someone that thinks it's a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 01:32 PM

Sure, the debt ceiling limit is a good idea- for some people. It lets the Republicans in Congress pretend that in threatening to not extend it they are hurting the Democratic administration, and not the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: ollaimh
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 01:51 PM

dear dick, the debt limit is a farce. of course america should be commited to repaying any money ot owes without a vote, but in fact it is. if the repayments stopp so will the wordl financial syatem with so many consequenses that it would take hours to list them. that's why its a farce.

ameica is considered credit worth for now mainly because to do otherwise would bring the world financial syatem dowm with a thundering crash. the chinese own trillions in us debt. if they try to collect immediately then their credits become worthless. however a system that is a house of cards cannot survive a major financial hit. can you say climate change, can yoiu say peak oil, can you say military defeat. any and all will eventually happen. then you will have to decide if the descent is going to be horrifying or civil.

i just hope i die before someone wants to kill me to eat me. i'm sixty, the odds are fifty fifty on that. people under fifty--you got a real problem comming

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 02:00 PM

Peak oil? With all of the shale oil that is being extracted now? Not an issue in our lifetimes. Climate change? Localized events will happen but no world wide catastrophe for a very long time. The Chinese own less than a trillion in US debt and they are slowly divesting. Military defeat of the USA? HAHAHAHA!!

"I just hope i die before someone wants to kill me to eat me." Too bad you don't live here where you can buy yourself a storm shelter and stock it with AR-15s!

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 02:30 PM

Powers that are the most heavily armed of their time, but who cannot afford the cost of being so eventually lose, not that they were defeated by the enemy's armaments...no...they were defeated by themselves, because they couldn't afford the price of their own folly. Like a tree that grows too topheavy, they are brought down by their own weight.

This happened to Rome eventually. I think it will also happen to the USA. And not too far down the road.

Here's a short video that offers a concise description of what has occurred in regards to the world financial and military situation since 1945, centered around establishing the US dollar as the world's reserve currency at the Bretton-Woods Conference, that dollar initially backed by gold reserves at $35 per ounce, then taken off the gold standard by Richard Nixon in the early 70s and tied instead to purchasing oil (the grossly inflated US $ became the world's petrodollar), and what has happened since then...leading to the impending crisis we now constantly teeter on the edge of.

You'll either like this video. Or you'll hate it (and in that case probably ridicule it)...if it conflicts with your already established viewpoints on such matters.

Watch it and see....

Either way...(shrug)...your opinion of the video won't make an iota of difference to what actually happens to the world in due course, because it will happen regardless of your opinion or mine. Keep that in mind. That's how important our opinions are. They are of ZERO importance. But we do have them...and we all like to talk! (At least until we find something more significant to do instead...)

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 03:06 PM

"That's how important our opinions are. They are of ZERO importance."

That directly opposes the message of the video you linked to, LH. And I disagree with that statement as vehemently as I agree with the video.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 03:38 PM

I think that video tells less that the whole story and sometimes confuses cause with effect.

I don't understand the accusation that The US engaged in "theft" from France. I suspect, especially knowing who was leading France at the time, that the charge is hyperbole.

I don't think that Imperial Rome and the current US are comparable.

But US economic influence to China is waning. But the Chinese currency will never be the world standard and after the past 4 years, the Euro doesn't have much of a chance either.

Here is a question. Should the US be somehow compensated for keeping the peace in oil producing regions? Should it be compensated for keeping the peace in the South China Sea? Should it be compensated for allowing Canada, Germany, Japan, Korea, Taiwan and the rest of the Americas to have much smaller military budgets than they would need to protect themselves from external threats?

If so, the situation described in the "petro-dollars" portion of the video is simply fair compensation by the Saudis and the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: MarkS
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 05:20 PM

Hey Bobert - One minor nit to pick

If a company goes public and sells you a share of stock you are giving them money in exchange for a piece of the ownership. No debt.

If a company sells you a bond - then you are giving them money in exchange for a promise to get paid back with interest later - and that one is the debt.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 05:23 PM

Good point MarkS. Not a minor one.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 06:26 PM

It's still debt... If Bobert, Inc. builds little Boberts and is doing well and decides to go public Bobert, Inc. sells stock which get's Bobert, Inc money to use to expand... On that transaction alone it is similar to a loan except in the case it doesn't get repaid unless, as had happened either Bobert, Inc or another "Bobert, Inc" corrals enough stock to take over Bobert, Inc...

BTW, as others have said, there is no justification to have a debt limit... It nothing but fiscal conservative grandstanding...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 07:03 PM

No Bobert it is not debt. It is selling part of the company for money. If the owners of the company sell a large enough percentage of the company and a third party buys or controls enough of those shares, they can get a "controlling interest" in the company and "take over" the management of it. "Hostile take over" was the economic buzzword of the 1980's it happened a lot. When companies issue bonds instead of debt. Companies like Bain Capital cannot take them over.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 07:22 PM

Okay, it's not technically debt... It's still money given to Bobert, Inc. which Bobert, Inc. will use in the same manner than if the money had come from a loan...

Think we're splitting hairs here... Yes, technically it isn't debt but it is money in (price of stock) and collateral out (piece of your company)...

The only difference between this and debt is that rather than an agreement to buy back the collateral Bobert, Inc. doesn't care if the collateral is traded to someone else...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Rev Bayes
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 06:46 AM

To actually answer the OP's question, the reason is that until 1917, the US Congress approved debt issues case by case. Under pressure of work, they dropped this in 1917 in favour of a blanket authority to raise debt up to a certain limit.

It has been retained ever since as a useful bargaining chip by whoever was in opposition. And yes, it's high time it was abolished.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 07:49 AM

Almost every small businessman knows that debt is part of being in business... I mean, when a company goes public and sells stock that is debt.

It is not debt. Not at all, no way no how. But is is a way for a business to raise money.

Your larger point about debt being a part of business and not the real problem, is totally on the money, pardon the pun. That is why the credit crisis of 2008 nearly destroyed the economy.

If the government had not stepped in many millions more jobs probably would have been lost and it might have taken decades to get to 7.8 % unemployment.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 11:07 AM

I'm still waiting to hear any justification for having a sebt ceiling vote. BB, GfS, Ake, Terribus---where are you?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 04:35 PM

Looks to me like the ones who oppose the raising of the limit are simply playing to their base.Grandstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 04:45 PM

Because..as last time, if we don't INCREASE the debt ceiling, to borrow more and feed the banksters with more interest, for more increased spending, they will lower our credit rating again...for the same reason.
It's pretty much like extortion...on a rather grand scale! Forget the 'politics'..it really has nothing to do with it, at all.....it's just for distracting 'entertainment'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 06:13 PM

It isn't extortion. It is paying the bills that the United States government has already agreed to pay.

You know where Wimpy says "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today?" The debt limit vote is Tuesday.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 06:32 PM

I know, Jack..but here's the deal.....you gotta have this social program and that social program, to appeal to the left..you gotta have this war and that war, to the right..under the banner of 'patriotism', and to the 'left' under the banner of 'equal rights' (as long as they trample the Constitution, with the corner of one side of their mouths, and then use it to justify the 'rights' of the people, with the other corner of their mouths....and of course, get rid of those guns(another Constitutional right)..so when America wises up, there will be little or no resistance.
break down the morals and structure of the family..and replace it with expensive programs that get America 'beholding' to the dole....as long as it increases the Federal spending....for the 'banksters' who 'lend' the money. The banksters own the 'news' media...which caters to both sides at once(depending on your flavor of politics), and divide the people, (Like in here, as well)....and while all this is going on, our rights, our economy..hell even our emotions, are at the whim of however the banksters steer it....as long as they make their money...problem is, they've been losing 'investors' of their bonds, as well.
Clock is ticking.....sooner or later, the scales will fall off your eyes!
Snap now, and avoid the 'rush'!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 09:23 PM

Lotta hand wringin'...

Let's get real here... We don't have a debt problem... We have a political problem... Obama is seeing the highest level of obstructionism since Lincoln...

End of story...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 12:18 AM

Bobert: " End of story.. "

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 03:06 AM

"Let's get real here... We don't have a debt problem... We have a political problem."

Absolutely Bobert. Everyone want to cut the other guy's program. The problem with the Tea Party is that they are stupid enough to thing that they can bully the other guys into cutting their own stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 03:49 AM

Sure we got 'plenty of money'....that we are paying interest on...both to save it, and to spend it....just the only problem is, less people overseas are standing in line to buy our bonds....so..at what point does 'all that money' become a debt???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 07:39 AM

There are plenty of people on the dole who don't qualify, but no one wants to bother with oversight.
Recently half a dozen millionaires were caught drawing unemployment!

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:36 PM

Bobert the Wonder Thinker, and Jack, The Wonder Ass: "
"Let's get real here... We don't have a debt problem... We have a political problem."

(Jack the Wonder-Ass"): "Absolutely Bobert. Everyone want to cut the other guy's program."


"We don't have a debt problem".. What's this Gizmo????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:37 PM

Bobert the Wonder Thinker, and Jack, The Wonder Ass: "
"Let's get real here... We don't have a debt problem... We have a political problem."

(Jack the Wonder-Ass"): "Absolutely Bobert. Everyone want to cut the other guy's program."


"We don't have a debt problem".. What's this Gizmo????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:48 PM

Personal attacks from an unregistered guest.

So Bobert, this is your friend?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 06:27 PM

Well, yeah, JtS... I mean, even delusional people need a freind...

BTW, $16T ain't squat... There is no crisis... The sky isn't falling...

This is more of the right wing crybabies who hate every single tax dollar that don't come to them... The reddest states are the ones raking in the big federal tax dollars... They are averaging getting $1.25 back for every dollar in... Blues states are gettin' shafted and yet, while they should be the one's cryin', they have to put up with these whining, washrag, crybaby Tea Partiers...

Go figure???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 09:42 PM

Bobert: "BTW, $16T ain't squat..."

Great!..Hey buddy, can you spare an extra $10,000,000?????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 10:16 PM

Jack: "So Bobert, this is your friend?"

...and Bobert is mine as well. Don't let a little difference of opinion blow off the ability to be friends...especially as something as inane as politics!..Jeez..We're musicians!..politics ain't squat!!
Bobert's my brother.......wanna be my sister?....or my gerbil??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 12:41 PM

GfS- You're ducking my question. I'm not asking whether or not we should incur debts---just whether it makes any sense to have to vote on whether or not to pay for them.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 03:13 PM

Dick, may I call you Sísyphos?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:06 PM

Well, I suppose that a vote will foment the debate..whether they will be voting with debt limits attached or not...who knows/..they don't seem to read the bills too much any more....just their payoff receipts!
Actually my first post addresses that very issue...Either vote to increase it, or get the credit rating knocked down...see my first post.
I called it extortion on a grand scale...but what can you do?...One thing for sure, is recognized that whatever they come up with, that it will represent their 'financial benefits' for their 'sponsors' before it will represent US..take you pick..either side..both have their 'special(unknown) interests'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:08 PM

First of all, let's get real here... There is no earthly reason why there is a debt limit as Congress passes these bills, funds 'um and know when they do if there is money in the bank to cover them or if they are going to need to borrow to pay for them...

Seems to me that having them go thru this is a complete waste of time but then again...

...it is Congress and they are very expe4rienced at wasting time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:10 PM

It seems they're very experienced at wasting money.