BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 03:32 AM

Lisa Murkowski: Debt Ceiling Shouldn't Be Used As Leverage

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 10:16 PM

When Kant suggested that people had nebulous feelings about philosophy, he referred folks to Hegel who then said, "Please, see Mark Twain." When people couldn't, because Twain wasn't yet alive, then was born solipsism. Life at times can be a real sonuvabitch.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 09:59 PM

I thought that certain people's head were so far up their ass..if they did a somersault, they'd disappear!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:17 PM

The idiot is the person with its head so far up its arse that it does not know what the thread is about.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 06:58 PM

Jack: "SO I won't name ONE, I'll name three,
President Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Orange John B."

The first two haven't submitted a budget..well Obama made an attempt, ONCE..but it was voted down by Democrats, as well as Republicans!..unanimously!!

What are you worried about???..There's plenty of money, and no debt..just ask Bobert...come to think of it...you said the same thing!

Idiots on parade!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 06:44 PM

None of the blame goes to that corrupt BILLIONAIRE, Harry Reid, of course....
It's ALL the Republicans.....get a life!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 10:32 AM

GOP unity crumbling?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 11:41 PM

"Name ONE, who has kept their word..in its entirety!"

In case what I said didn't pierce the bubble. Pretty much everyone in Washington since the debt ceiling was created has kept the promise to pay the incurred debts in its entirety except for a few dozen Tea Party Jack asses in 2010.

SO I won't name ONE, I'll name three,
President Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Orange John B.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 11:30 PM

Bobert has been saying that up until now Congress has kept the promise to pay its incurred debts. He has said it clearly and simply. In fact that is what pretty much everyone on this thread has been saying the whole time.

I'm pretty sure that the communication problem is entirely on your end. Are you in your own little Bubble from Sanity?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 11:18 PM

So what does 'promissory' or 'promise' have to do with anybody in Washington????
Name ONE, who has kept their word..in its entirety!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 07:38 PM

Yeah, when I sign a promissory note there ain't no small print that allows me later decide not to pay it... BTW, the root word in "promissory" is "promise"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 07:25 PM

Why what, GfS?

The limit on debt should operate before commitment is made, not in considering whether or not to honor a commitment already made. If Congress only allocated money it already had, none of this would be an issue.


A

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 07:16 PM

Bobert, All I did was ask 'Why?'...I think your post was for 999....in any event, you're wrong again!...but one thing for sure....hyper inflation can be used to pay off the debt....especially when you're a corrupt bankster!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 06:28 PM

GfinS has a vivid imagination, Jack...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:36 PM

"From: GUEST,999 - PM
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:18 PM

About 40-45% of the USA's sales to foreign markets are armaments. Let's keep those wars going, folks! "

Where are you getting this?

US total exports last year was about 1.2 trillion. With 66 billion in arms. Isn't that between 5-6%?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:22 PM

Bad politics = bad economic policy = poor growth, GfinS...

Of course the righties say this is all about "socialism" but that's what they do...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:18 PM

About 40-45% of the USA's sales to foreign markets are armaments. Let's keep those wars going, folks!

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:11 PM

Why??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:02 PM

Jack is correct... Europe is out #1 market and they are stuck in an austerity cycle that is keeping the collective European economy down...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:49 PM

WHAT!!!!!!!!!????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:44 PM

If the economy pick up and goes to 4-5% unemployment then the deficit will probably stop growing. But that won't happen until Europe stops dicking around with their debt crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:21 PM

$60M for Stroker Ace (NASCAR)... Yup...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:10 PM

It seems they're very experienced at wasting money.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:08 PM

First of all, let's get real here... There is no earthly reason why there is a debt limit as Congress passes these bills, funds 'um and know when they do if there is money in the bank to cover them or if they are going to need to borrow to pay for them...

Seems to me that having them go thru this is a complete waste of time but then again...

...it is Congress and they are very expe4rienced at wasting time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:06 PM

Well, I suppose that a vote will foment the debate..whether they will be voting with debt limits attached or not...who knows/..they don't seem to read the bills too much any more....just their payoff receipts!
Actually my first post addresses that very issue...Either vote to increase it, or get the credit rating knocked down...see my first post.
I called it extortion on a grand scale...but what can you do?...One thing for sure, is recognized that whatever they come up with, that it will represent their 'financial benefits' for their 'sponsors' before it will represent US..take you pick..either side..both have their 'special(unknown) interests'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 03:13 PM

Dick, may I call you Sísyphos?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 12:41 PM

GfS- You're ducking my question. I'm not asking whether or not we should incur debts---just whether it makes any sense to have to vote on whether or not to pay for them.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 10:16 PM

Jack: "So Bobert, this is your friend?"

...and Bobert is mine as well. Don't let a little difference of opinion blow off the ability to be friends...especially as something as inane as politics!..Jeez..We're musicians!..politics ain't squat!!
Bobert's my brother.......wanna be my sister?....or my gerbil??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 09:42 PM

Bobert: "BTW, $16T ain't squat..."

Great!..Hey buddy, can you spare an extra $10,000,000?????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 06:27 PM

Well, yeah, JtS... I mean, even delusional people need a freind...

BTW, $16T ain't squat... There is no crisis... The sky isn't falling...

This is more of the right wing crybabies who hate every single tax dollar that don't come to them... The reddest states are the ones raking in the big federal tax dollars... They are averaging getting $1.25 back for every dollar in... Blues states are gettin' shafted and yet, while they should be the one's cryin', they have to put up with these whining, washrag, crybaby Tea Partiers...

Go figure???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:48 PM

Personal attacks from an unregistered guest.

So Bobert, this is your friend?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:37 PM

Bobert the Wonder Thinker, and Jack, The Wonder Ass: "
"Let's get real here... We don't have a debt problem... We have a political problem."

(Jack the Wonder-Ass"): "Absolutely Bobert. Everyone want to cut the other guy's program."


"We don't have a debt problem".. What's this Gizmo????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:36 PM

Bobert the Wonder Thinker, and Jack, The Wonder Ass: "
"Let's get real here... We don't have a debt problem... We have a political problem."

(Jack the Wonder-Ass"): "Absolutely Bobert. Everyone want to cut the other guy's program."


"We don't have a debt problem".. What's this Gizmo????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 07:39 AM

There are plenty of people on the dole who don't qualify, but no one wants to bother with oversight.
Recently half a dozen millionaires were caught drawing unemployment!

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 03:49 AM

Sure we got 'plenty of money'....that we are paying interest on...both to save it, and to spend it....just the only problem is, less people overseas are standing in line to buy our bonds....so..at what point does 'all that money' become a debt???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 03:06 AM

"Let's get real here... We don't have a debt problem... We have a political problem."

Absolutely Bobert. Everyone want to cut the other guy's program. The problem with the Tea Party is that they are stupid enough to thing that they can bully the other guys into cutting their own stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 12:18 AM

Bobert: " End of story.. "

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 09:23 PM

Lotta hand wringin'...

Let's get real here... We don't have a debt problem... We have a political problem... Obama is seeing the highest level of obstructionism since Lincoln...

End of story...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 06:32 PM

I know, Jack..but here's the deal.....you gotta have this social program and that social program, to appeal to the left..you gotta have this war and that war, to the right..under the banner of 'patriotism', and to the 'left' under the banner of 'equal rights' (as long as they trample the Constitution, with the corner of one side of their mouths, and then use it to justify the 'rights' of the people, with the other corner of their mouths....and of course, get rid of those guns(another Constitutional right)..so when America wises up, there will be little or no resistance.
break down the morals and structure of the family..and replace it with expensive programs that get America 'beholding' to the dole....as long as it increases the Federal spending....for the 'banksters' who 'lend' the money. The banksters own the 'news' media...which caters to both sides at once(depending on your flavor of politics), and divide the people, (Like in here, as well)....and while all this is going on, our rights, our economy..hell even our emotions, are at the whim of however the banksters steer it....as long as they make their money...problem is, they've been losing 'investors' of their bonds, as well.
Clock is ticking.....sooner or later, the scales will fall off your eyes!
Snap now, and avoid the 'rush'!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 06:13 PM

It isn't extortion. It is paying the bills that the United States government has already agreed to pay.

You know where Wimpy says "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today?" The debt limit vote is Tuesday.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 04:45 PM

Because..as last time, if we don't INCREASE the debt ceiling, to borrow more and feed the banksters with more interest, for more increased spending, they will lower our credit rating again...for the same reason.
It's pretty much like extortion...on a rather grand scale! Forget the 'politics'..it really has nothing to do with it, at all.....it's just for distracting 'entertainment'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 04:35 PM

Looks to me like the ones who oppose the raising of the limit are simply playing to their base.Grandstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 11:07 AM

I'm still waiting to hear any justification for having a sebt ceiling vote. BB, GfS, Ake, Terribus---where are you?

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 07:49 AM

Almost every small businessman knows that debt is part of being in business... I mean, when a company goes public and sells stock that is debt.

It is not debt. Not at all, no way no how. But is is a way for a business to raise money.

Your larger point about debt being a part of business and not the real problem, is totally on the money, pardon the pun. That is why the credit crisis of 2008 nearly destroyed the economy.

If the government had not stepped in many millions more jobs probably would have been lost and it might have taken decades to get to 7.8 % unemployment.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: GUEST,Rev Bayes
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 06:46 AM

To actually answer the OP's question, the reason is that until 1917, the US Congress approved debt issues case by case. Under pressure of work, they dropped this in 1917 in favour of a blanket authority to raise debt up to a certain limit.

It has been retained ever since as a useful bargaining chip by whoever was in opposition. And yes, it's high time it was abolished.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 07:22 PM

Okay, it's not technically debt... It's still money given to Bobert, Inc. which Bobert, Inc. will use in the same manner than if the money had come from a loan...

Think we're splitting hairs here... Yes, technically it isn't debt but it is money in (price of stock) and collateral out (piece of your company)...

The only difference between this and debt is that rather than an agreement to buy back the collateral Bobert, Inc. doesn't care if the collateral is traded to someone else...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 07:03 PM

No Bobert it is not debt. It is selling part of the company for money. If the owners of the company sell a large enough percentage of the company and a third party buys or controls enough of those shares, they can get a "controlling interest" in the company and "take over" the management of it. "Hostile take over" was the economic buzzword of the 1980's it happened a lot. When companies issue bonds instead of debt. Companies like Bain Capital cannot take them over.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 06:26 PM

It's still debt... If Bobert, Inc. builds little Boberts and is doing well and decides to go public Bobert, Inc. sells stock which get's Bobert, Inc money to use to expand... On that transaction alone it is similar to a loan except in the case it doesn't get repaid unless, as had happened either Bobert, Inc or another "Bobert, Inc" corrals enough stock to take over Bobert, Inc...

BTW, as others have said, there is no justification to have a debt limit... It nothing but fiscal conservative grandstanding...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 05:23 PM

Good point MarkS. Not a minor one.

Subject: RE: BS: debt limit. can nybody explain why
From: MarkS
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 05:20 PM

Hey Bobert - One minor nit to pick

If a company goes public and sells you a share of stock you are giving them money in exchange for a piece of the ownership. No debt.

If a company sells you a bond - then you are giving them money in exchange for a promise to get paid back with interest later - and that one is the debt.