BS: Forces War Records (UK related)

Subject: BS: Forces War Records
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 01:58 PM

Has anyone else had poor or no results from the Forces War Records website. I have searched for any information about both grandfathers, my father, my uncle, my great uncle, my wifes father and her brother and there is no mention of any of them, at all.

I contacted Forces War Records and received what I can only describe a literary two fingered salute. I quote:-

"Unfortunately, we can only provide access to all of the records we hold, to which sir you purchased full access.

I''m sorry you''ve experienced any problems using our site, we take all complaints very seriously.

Could you please state exactly where on our pages we have stated we can provide the information that you have now found we do not have."

Not the response I expected from the site. They go on to say:-

"Please try to provide the exact wording and the page where this is stated, as we can''t consider assumptions as I am sure you can understand we don''t know what members are searching for (if anything specifically) before they pay for the full membership"

I would have thought it was obvious that I was searching for records pertaing to seven members of my family who all served in the forces. Three during WW1, three during WW2 and one in the 1960's and 70's

I would have considered it "normal" on a site that portrays itself as "Forces War Records" that those records are EXACTLY the things that people such as myself are looking for.

I will NOT be renewing my membership and would advise others to think carefully before joining the site and, if my experience is anything to go by, wasting their money.

Just one final remark, the punctuation in the quotation marks is copied verbatim from their response to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 02:03 PM

The Forces War Records website states:-

"Forces War Records is the definitive location for military genealogy records from WW2, WW1, Boer War, Crimean War and beyond. Our Military Records site is the ONLY location where you can find military records of over 4 million British Armed Forces personnel exclusively cross matched with over 4000 Regiments, Bases and Ships of the British Armed Forces going back to before 1350, making your military genealogy task much easier and more complete"


A pretty clear indication of what one should expect on the site I would think.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 02:12 PM

If you we're a Canuck, you'd write a goddamned letter! I know I would. That is outlandish!

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records
From: selby
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 02:59 PM

You can certainly get WW1 records from ancestry UK but it is another pay site I have used Ancestry for a long time and it works for me. Unfortunately for all sites some WW1 records where lost during a bombing raid and subsequent fire/water damage. I have managed to get my paternal grandfathers info but not my maternal grandfathers. I have also got info from a great uncle that served with the Canadian Forces from the same site.
Hope this is of assistance if you need a hand quite happy to help with what bit i know.Not to far from each other.
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 03:45 PM

I had the same experience, no mention of either of my grandfathers in WW1 ( Dule of Wellington's Regiment and Royal Field Artillery) , my father or mother in WW2 (RAF and WAAF)

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 06:01 PM

I prefer what there is on Ancestry, to be honest - and that's biased towards WW1 and the Army.

The PRO at Kew would probably be a better place to start for more complex searches.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records
From: Charmion
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 06:25 PM

Is this an official MoD or National Archives website? If so, you should get the records you want by submitting a service number.

If it's not an MoD or National Archives site, you've probably been had.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 08:00 PM

Somehow I wonder how they have service records for folks who served during, say, the Battle of Agincourt or as an able seaman against the Armada.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 05:40 AM

I believe that Ancestry UK and Forces War Records are part of the same organisation and their records are cross referenced to some degree.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 06:12 AM

I've had exactly the same, expressed the same dissatisfaction and had the same brush-off.

No details of my grandfather in WW1 ar my father and 3 uncles' service in WW2, which seems ridiculous considerin gthe "puff" for their site quoted by Raggytash above.

I was VERY disappointed, and let them know it in no uncertain terms....but I'm still getting monthly emails imploring me to rejoin despite me asking them to take me off their mailing list.

"Won't Get Fooled Again"!

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 07:40 AM

Be careful on that site - it automatically assumes you want a monthly renewal of your payment...irrespective of whether or not you have chosen the "one off" payment.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 08:02 AM

I've been thinking about this for the past few days and have come to the conclusion that the website owners must receive substantial amounts of payments from thousands of people who subscribe. Some of these people do not gain anything from the site and thus their money is wasted. Me thinks it is time something was done. Watch this space.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 11:25 AM

Count me in, Raggy, bastards took two extra payments off me for a "one off" payment.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 12:36 PM

We got my Grandads easily enough but we did actualy visit Kew to get them. We also got my Dads record from when he arrived in England from Poland and managed to get his campaign medal so, to be honest, we have no complaints.

Didn't I hear some time back that a lot of the records had been destroyed by some sort of accident? Maybe your ancestors records were sadly affected by that? I hope not though. All I can suggest is persistence and, maybe, a visit to Kew. Stopped in a very nice pub near there BTW and ate in a Russian Resaurant - All in all a good trip out :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 03:52 PM

Interesting comment Dave. I thought the whole idea of having a website was that the information could be accessed from anywhere in the world, irrespective of your personal location.

If you had to travel to Kew to obtain the information you sought it, to my mind, defeats the whole idea of creating a website.

I am pleased that you managed to find information about your Father and Grandfather and hoped I could do the same regarding members of my family.

Being 50 miles from the nearest mainline railway station, and 65 miles from the nearest motorway leading to London, the Internet should theoretically be a much easier way for me to find information.

The Forces War Records website is vigorously promoted as an access to information regarding past members of the armed forces.

In my, albeit limited, time using the site it has proved to be of no benefit at all.

I do understand that some records have been lost due to a fire.

Despite this I do find it difficult to believe that all records pertaining to both my family and my wifes family who served in the Army, Navy and Air Force in both the major conflicts of the 20th century have all been lost.

I leave it to others to say where the site gives "value for money"

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: selby
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 02:09 AM

A look at this website may prove useful
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/remembrance/medals/service-records-faqs.
I have not heard or read where a private company is doing WW2 records as there is usually fanfares etc. I am in the process of getting my dads WW2 records and I have to supply his death certificate and fill in a form to say who I am etc.
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Charmion
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 12:56 PM

Second World War personnel records are still under Privacy Act restrictions in this country: unless the applicant for access is the next of kin, the subject must be *provably* dead or 110 years old at the time of application. I can't believe the rules in Britain are much different.

Service members are mentioned and identified by name, rank and number in plenty of administrative records -- nominal rolls, for example -- but I'm sure Raggytash is looking for the disciplinary record, medical record and similar hot stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 03:51 PM

http://www.forces-war-records.co.uk

Charmion, I am looking for no such stuff. I am looking for information regarding members of my family that is freely available to any citizen of the United Kingdom, in fact available to anyone in the world.

Would I be correct in assuming that you are one of our "American Cousins" if so may I enlighten you to the fact that there is a wealth of information pertaining to individuals, brigades, regiments, ships, squadrons of British Forces dating back (according to the website) to 1350, some 426 years before "America" became a nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 03:55 PM

Charmion,

I've just re-read the comments I made above and realised they sound a little harsh. That was not my intention and no offence was meant to you or anybody else.

Cheers

Raggytash

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Charmion
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 08:22 PM

As it happens, I am a Canadian with extensive experience as a military historian working with primary materials at the National Archives of Canada and at National Defence Headquarters in Ottawa. I also have lots of relatives "on the record", as it were, including my Dad, a Royal Navy veteran. As a military veteran myself, I am also on the record.

If I were you, Rags, I would obtain the personnel records from the PRO at Kew, using a relative's privilege to get whatever they will let you have. For most military personnel --well, the luckier ones -- the personnel records don't actually tell much about the experiences of the subject, but they do indicate what unit(s) and formation(s) the subject served in, which tells you where to look for the bigger picture.

Be prepared to log a bit of time in archives reading rooms and suchlike pleasure domes, and to provide that all-important identifier, the service number. If you have your relatives' paybooks, you're well ahead of the game.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 09:39 PM

Raggytash - I'm watching this space! Good luck.

Here in Australia we have access to the service records of all service personnel from the Boer war to WW2 & maybe some later conflicts?, on a govt site - all free unless we want something printed up.

I've had a great time reading about my grandmother's brothers who served in WW1 (one lost his stripe as he let a shell-shocked soldier escape! so I looked up this bloke's record too, to see what had happened to him), & intend to go back one day to look up my grandfather as I forgot to look for him (oops) & I could also look for info on dad's older cousins who served in WW2.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 04:59 AM

Charmion thanks for your input, I appreciate your help. As a starting point Forces War Records sets itself up as THE place to search.

It states on the first page that:

"Forces War Records is the definitive location for military genealogical records from WW2, WW1, Boer War, Crimean war and beyond. Our Military record site is the ONLY (their capitals)location where you can find military records of over 4 million British Armed Forces personnel exclusively cross matched with over 4000 regiments"

The cost of membership ranges from £8.95 for a month to £85.95 for a year.

If, like me, you are unable to find any trace of three generations of your family who served from WW1 through WW2 and beyond it is a waste of money.

However you HAVE to subscribe in order to find out that they do not have the records pertaining to your family. A nice "catch 22" situation for them.

I am of the opinion that the site is not fit for purpose and consider it only reasonable that I bring this to the attention of a wider audience.

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 06:02 AM

Some two-thirds of (UK) service records for WWI were destroyed by fire during the blitz. For surviving records I would recommend using Ancestry (which is free to use in many libraries).

For WW2 records I recommend you talk to the organ grinder - not the monkey - and apply direct to the MOD:

MOD website.

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Charmion
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 06:05 AM

Points noted, Rags.

Because of my experience as a researcher, I am deeply suspicious of any commercial entity (such as a non-government website) that makes sweeping offers of access to genuine historical records. Converting handwritten military documents to searchable digital form is a highly labour-intensive enterprise that takes oodles and oodles of government funding. Add the privacy implications of any personal record created after 1920, and you've got all the ingredients of a Very Unlikely Thing.

The National Archives of Canada made the attestation documents of the Canadian Expeditionary Force (1914-1919) available online in PDF format, retrievable from a database of names and service numbers. This was a most unusual initiative, unique in Canada, and made possible only by a high-level policy decision to by-pass the Privacy Act by means of special agreement of the Privacy Commissioner on the grounds that its value to the public out-weighed the confidentiality of the personal information contained in the records. Note that the on-line project was limited to the attestation paper; conduct sheet, medical record, pay records etc. remain unavailable and likely to remain so.

The major class of military records typically available on line is war diaries. For these to be of any use to you, the service record is essential - you need to know the regiment, corps, trade, rank etc. to find your individual in the mass of detail reported at the various levels of the military hierarchy. You also need to be massively patient and determined in your research.

Older records, especially of the British Army before the Cardwell reforms of 1870 -- well, getting that stuff on line is just fantasy.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 08:21 AM

Charmion, your records are more limited than those we can access in Australia.

National Archives of Australia The National Archives holds records about service in the Australian defence forces from Federation in 1901. Find out how to access the records we hold relating to service with the:
Australian Army (Army)

    Boer War
    World War I
    Service between the world wars
    World War II
    Service after World War II

Royal Australian Navy (RAN)

    Service up to 1970
    Service after 1970

Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF)

    Service up to and including World War II
    Service after World War II

We also hold other records relating to wartime service, including:

    civilian service
    courts-martial files
    merchant navy
    munitions workers
    soldier settlement
    veterans' case files
    war gratuities

Under the Archives Act, you have a right of access to Commonwealth government records that are in the open access period.

For wider research, you may also want to consult the Archives records about defence administration and policy or unit, operational and administrative records held by the Australian War Memorial.

See also the list of abbreviations used in some service records. View documents from service records from the Boer War, World War I and World War II.

=============

& here's the service record of my great uncle James Royal Lambert who died in France in 1917 & here the photobrooch his mother wore every day until she died 20yrs later

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Charmion
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 08:26 AM

Australia clearly has Canada beat hands-down with respect to providing public access to official records. Mind you, that's not difficult; it all costs money, and our government, bless its baby-blue conservative heart, always prefers not to spend on anything that doesn't have an obvious and immediate cash return.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 09:01 AM

Hi Sandra,

On the Australian records I have found a mention of my great uncle Walter. At least I think its my great uncle Walter, birth place is right but I'm not sure of other details such as his mothers name so cannot be 100%

Typical of the UK Government, sources that are free in our former colonies we have to pay through the nose for.

Fancy doing a bit of digging for me !

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 05:33 AM

Hi Sandra,

I've done a bit of digging and found that my Great Grandparents William & Elizabeth Scaife lived at 24 Chuter Street, Sydney which thanks to Google maps I have been able to look at. My Great grandparents arrived in Australia in September 1912 on board a ship named Dorset. Fascinating stuff for me if no-one else.

A really big thank-you for the link to the National Archives of Australia. Because of you and the website I've been able to find a big piece of the jig-saw.

Cheers

Raggytash

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 10:56 AM

24 Chuter Street, is in McMahons Point, I don't know why Google maps calls it Sydney. Today it's a very posh harbourside suburb. Back in the late 70's a friend bought a run down terrace there, I don't know what it would have been like in 1912.

State Records Authority of NSW is the NSW Government's archives and records management authority. We manage the NSW State archives collection and set the rules and provide guidance on the management of official records. Our off-budget Government Records Repository (GRR) provides records storage services to the public sector.

It has lots of interesting stuff about NSW residents & maybe you can find more about your ancestors. search on Shipping for Dorset 1912 shows 'Dorset' arrived on the 28th September.

OZ Gen Online has been developed to assist Australian genealogists

Society of Australian Genealogists has been helping people trace family history for over 80 years. Located in the Sydney CBD, we have a world-class library and manuscript collection, much of which is unique. We run an active programme of lectures, workshops, seminars and tours, have a shop selling books, charts and software and can give advice on all aspects of genealogy. We look forward to helping you uncover your family's history.

enjoy your searching

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Noreen
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 09:41 AM

Hi Nick, from Forces War Records - (About Us page):

Forces War Records is the sister site of Forces Reunited, the leading British military community on the web with more than one million members and reuniting veterans since 2001.

The site was created approximately five years ago upon the request of some Forces Reunited members who were looking for information on their ancestors but had come up against dead ends with the usual genealogy sites. Since inception we have gone on to add over five million name records and are currently adding over 100,000 records a month.

Copyright ©2013: http://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/About-Us

It's nothing to do with Ancestry- though a lot of websites link to so many other sites it's very difficult to keep track of which site is related to which other.

I don't like the attitude of 'Forces War Records' at all- they seem to claim that they have all records, and charge you for a subscription on that basis- but as they say above they are adding over 100,000 records a month, they obviously don't have it all yet!

I prefer other sites on which you can search and they show you that they have records, which you then pay to view, or of course Ancestry- which as stated above is free to access through your local library :)

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 09:56 AM

Hi Noreen,

I get emails from both the Ancestry & Forces War sites which lead me , perhaps incorrectly, to believe they are connected.

If I can get enough people to tell me of their poor experiences with the site I will try and get a newspaper to run an article. I have already contacted a mainline broadsheet but as yet had no confirmation that they are in any way interested.

However if I can present them with factual evidence of the site being misleading they may wish to take up the story. I, for one, am thoughly displeased with WFR, especially their response to my observation to them that the site was of no help to me.

I do not take kindly to "two-fingered-salutes" of this nature.

Cheers

Nick

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Dazbo at Work
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 08:16 AM

I researched my grandfather's WW1 records at Kew 8 years ago. My impression at the time was that a large majority of the service records (for the army) were destroyed in an air raid in WW2. However, most (if not all) medal cards still exist which give some information on date of entry into war zones and medals awarded (I think everyone in the army would have got all or some of Pip, Squeek and Wilfred) as well as medical information. They also had war diaries.

I'm not surprised you couldn't get service records for WW1 (the odds are stacked against you) but am surprised you did't pick up any medal or medical information.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 08:25 AM

Thanks Dazbo, yet again Kew is mentioned as a source for records. Did you try to use Forces War Records at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 12:01 PM

As far a I was aware at the time no military records for WW1 were available online. Fortunately, I was able to stay at my Mum's for a few days in London and go to Kew (I'd recommend to anyone circumstances permitting of course)

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: selby
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 02:52 AM

Attestation papers medals rolls and demob papers are available on Ancestry only problem being as stated before if your in the lot that was destroyed you cant find them so it easy to blame Ancestry. The offer from post 4 still stands.
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 07 Feb 13 - 08:44 AM

Astonishing, the cheeky b*****ds have debited my account for a further payment ............ you can imagine my response to that. Terse email duly sent and reply recieved stating as a "Gesture Of Goodwill" (their capitals not mine) they would refund the payment.

Fume !?~@##!!@@~#!

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 07 Feb 13 - 09:01 AM

Yeah, Raggy, that's what happened to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Charmion
Date: 07 Feb 13 - 10:21 AM

Raggytash's comments about this Forces Records website remind me of those shysters who show up at highland games and folk festivals with a booth full of tartan tat and promises to research "your" family coat of arms or clan badge. Of course, a coat of arms belongs *only* to the direct lineal descendant(s) of the person to whom it was originally granted, but these fakers just look up your name in a Great Big Book of Heraldry and assert that the heraldic device they find beside your family name "belongs" to you. Then they start drawing up a purchase order for a fancy certificate and any God's quantity of official tea towels, pewter key fobs and laser-cut glassware, all with "your" coat of arms or clan badge on them.

Forces Records seems to have done away with the part where they actually look up your name in a Great Big Book of Something Or Other. That's quite a wheeze, and I bet their negative-option billing technique makes it obscenely profitable.

With the possible exception of Australian war records, I have never heard of a system or method that makes genealogical research (or indeed any historical research using archival materials) anything but a hell of a lot of painstaking work that inevitably includes travel to the relevant repository(ies) and waiting for the staff to find the relevant records in huge fonds that may or may not be helpfully arranged and annotated.

If there's a free lunch in archival research, it's located right beside the leprechaun's pot of gold.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 04:58 AM

Having had similar problems in past with 'accidental' payments being withdrawn, My Mr. controls now all transactions via the internet and promptly terminates any unwanted direct debits at source, from the bank website.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 07:48 AM

Experienced genealogical researchers will recognize the original complaint here as just another case of "advertising strikes again."

From the second post:

"Forces War Records is the definitive location for military genealogy records from WW2, WW1, Boer War, Crimean War and beyond ...

"definitive" just means it's the best there is - in the opinion of the operators.

ONLY location where you can find military records of over 4 million British Armed Forces personnel ...

The second best site only has 3,994,229 records

cross matched with over 4000 Regiments, Bases and Ships of the British Armed Forces going back to before 1350 ...

They've done some sorting.

making your military genealogy task much easier and more complete" ...

They hope you'll find more here than anywhere else - or think you did.

I don't see anything that claims that the have everything, and especially in the field of genealogical records any place that might be able to make such a claim would not be just wonderful, but would be a miracle several stages along the road to to some sort of declaration by the Pope.

It's a simple fact that no matter how hard anyone tries to get all the shit together, there are going to be gaps in any set of records.

Sometimes the gaps can be filled in from other sources, but quite often records have been lost, were never written down to begin with, were illegible in the record, or everybody who knew died before they told anyone. And some people (my recent ancestors) just left town when the census takers came 'round due to a local or personal prejudice against "revenooers." (that's anybody with a clean shirt)

The favorite excuse used by the US military, when recently discharged vets look for their service record to get a VA loan for the new house is "the warehouse roof leaked and the records were destroyed by the flood." "There was a fire in the warehouse" is close behind.

It's one of the things that makes it so much fun to try to trace your roots. (And you may pull enough hair out to look at lots of your roots at really close hand.)

Facts of (your ancestors') life 1.01

John

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 08:32 AM

Hi John In Kansas

I appreciate your comments and accept there may be some validity in your arguments, or I would if I didn't have access to other sources. I know that my maternal Grandfathers records are extant as I have family who have sourced them from the National Records Office at Kew. I know my Fathers records are similarly available. Thanks to Sandra in Sydney I know that my Great Uncles records are available and have looked at the Australian Archives to read them. (They're really very good, The Australian Archives)

Despite Forces-War-Records claims to be THE website for such matters they have none of this information. The records I am seeking cover almost 100 years. Relate, for the most part, to the two major conflicts of the 20th century and pertain to all three of the major services, Army, Navy and RAF.

The response I received from Forces-War-Records was, to my opinion, little short of a two-fingered salute.

The website claims to have a membership of 1.4 million. Even if people only sign up initially for one month that creates an income of £11,200,000 (not exactly chicken feed) and as they automatically bill individuals for subsequent months I suspect their income is far higher.

I would like to know if people on this site have had similar results and feedback to myself. If so we may be able to spread this to a wider audience and prevent other people from wasting their money.

Mighty Oaks and Little Acorns

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,JohnSteel
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 02:54 PM

I'm confused by this thread as although I did find two of my three ancestors on Forces War records Raggytash you say you have to pay before you can search, but that's completely wrong as I only chose to pay AFTER I found a record I wanted?

Why did you have to pay first?

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 04:07 AM

John, yes iy is possible to find a name that correlates with a family member but it is not possible to go beyond that to find details of that individual. In my case there were several entries that shared a name with a forbear but none of them were actually related to me. The only way to ascertain which is, and which is not, related is to sign up.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:12 AM

John in Kansas,

I was in the same position as Raggytash...I find it incredible that a site that makes such strong claimshad no records of either my grandfather in WW1 OR (and for me this was the killer) my father and several uncles from WW2....spread over a range of services and theatres of war.

And JohnSteel....yes, that's the "bait"....they come up with a list of several names with the same initials as the person you're interested in but you have to actually make the payment before you can access a more detailed record to see whether it actually is the person you're after. Then you find that the initial lists were a bit tenuous (to say the least, in my case).

THEN you have the hassle of having to opt out of the multiple payments then it NOT working and the next month's payment going out anyway and you having to go through the hassle of demanding a refund (how many people don't bother?) which they eventually give with bad grace.

Following that they continue bombarding you with emails, even though you've asked to be taken off their contact list.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:38 AM

I've just received an email from Forces-War-Records asking me if I'd like to publish any "diaries" kept by any of my relatives during periods of conflict.

I wonder who gets the copyright or any royalities due if the information were to be used by a third party for a film or a book.

I would put money on it that it would not be the person who submitted the diaries.

I do realise that my perception of Forces-War-Records is tainted by my recent experience but again would advise people to treat this site with caution.

I would reiterate the comment made by Sminky (01-FEB-13 06.02) that local libraries offer free access to Ancestry.co.uk which, if you have an uncommon surname as I do, does provide some records that are relatively easy to access.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Peter Crowe
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 04:34 PM

I believe Ancestry are withdrawing their free access at libraries.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,John Steel
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 04:36 PM

Ah I see Raggytash, in my case there were only a few records so I could tell easily they had a record I wanted.

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Rumncoke
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 01:46 PM

My ninety year old uncle has spent lots of time and money in looking for his father - mostly because he used three different names and falsified his date of birth. He also married twice without divorcing, leaving a wife and two sons and their descendants, wondering about him. He was a boy soldier, served in the Great War, and was wounded at Mons.

If anyone thinks they have a Charles Alfred, Charles Albert or Charles Edward Tuvey born in 1888 or 1886 in their family, I might have a surprise for them.

Of course those are only the names we know about - but we do know that he definitely had a bike.....

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: Noreen
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:24 PM

Peter Crowe says: I believe Ancestry are withdrawing their free access at libraries.

Why do you believe this Peter? First I've heard of it, and I work in a UK public library, where Ancestry is extremely well used.

The only relevant information I can find relates to withdrawal of free access at US Family History Centers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

If you know more, do tell?

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,TerryWilson
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 09:10 AM

Sounds to me RT that you are just attempting to grind an 'headless axe' I'm afraid.

As others have said it's clear such boasts by this site are just advertising, if you can do free searches and presumably contact them & ask before payment then you are gambling you'll find something surely?

Take a look at the TV adverts next time you're bored and you'll see almost any advertisement can be seen as misleading if you choose to take everything they say as 'factual' rather than merely opinion:
biggest -biggest in what context, in what theatre?
best - how can you substantiate that?
etc.

I've used this site along with others mentioned here and there's nothing which makes me think they are part of any other organisation, equally a site that offers free registration is pretty obviously going to have 90%+ free members hence your math does not add up.
£22m? no chance.

I'd judge the site against it's peers, and look at their sources to see if they were likely to have something the others didn't.

If other (larger) sites don't have the records you are after it's likely they don't exist in the public/commercial domain, if the other sites offer a full refund and apology if your gamble doesn't bear fruit then I'd agree with you, however I've just checked and they most certainly do not, so what's the beef, really?

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 09:31 PM

how convieant fire an war.have heard unrelated but the same,fire no   records left.was suspicios three relitives cant be found had good clear facts on each ,what a saveing finantiontly in the past ,my grandfather gased could never get a pention father dismissed very sick no compensation or pention ,50 percent of the powers to be have allways been very mean. from h.j.h            thankyou all for shareing information .

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: bubblyrat
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 05:58 AM

My father was in the RAF during and after WW2 . My partner Nicola's father was a doctor in the RAF during WW2 . My grandfather was a soldier in the RASC in WW1 ,AND a Petty Officer in the Royal Naval Armoured Car Division. Nicola's grandfather was an engineer officer in the Royal Navy and was present when HMS Andes ( later RMSP Atlantis )engaged and helped to sink a German "Q" ship off Norway in 1916.

YET ; I have been unable to trace the records of ANY of these people by using Forces War Records !!!! The same goes for the records of the three RAF "Padres" who were killed when Dad crashed at Dum Dum in 1946 !!!

Forces War Records ??? RUBBISH !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Forces War Records (UK related)
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 01:20 PM

People have repeatedly pointed out that there are better sources and that the majority of WW1 records were destroyed. The point is, however, the way that this site promoted itself as the definitive source. I didn't find out about the loss of the WW1 records until I was prompted to investigate by the lack of records for either grandfather or my great uncle. A simple disclaimer about the loss would probably have diffused a lot of complaints.

On the other hand I know of no excuse for the lack of WW2 records that they claim to hold. I couldn't find either parent or any of my uncles who served.