BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 08:36 PM

Have some Wooster Sauce old chap.

Tsk. Woostershire Sauce, purleeease!

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: gnu
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 09:34 PM

"Yeah, but what's the ruling on "Wednesday"?"

Yer sayin it wrong.

""Tronna" is not so much a case of dialect as it is of sheer vocal laziness, in my opinion."

Wrong agin.... we say "Tronna" as a matter of disrespect. When we say "T O", we mean Toronto. "Tronna" means Centre of The Universe Smug Bastards. Dontchya speak Canuck? EH?

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 11:10 PM

But, Rap...almost everyone in Canada hates Toronto too...even a lot of the people who live there!

So maybe you're right. Maybe it is a matter of disrespect. What most people around here refer to Toronto as (colloquially) is "The Big Smoke"....or as you say: T.O.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: gnu
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 11:20 PM

Who is Rap?

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 11:45 PM

Rapparee.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: JennieG
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 01:52 AM

Perhaps "actress" could be replaced with "actrine"? A local film reviewer uses that term, I suspect he made it up.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 04:15 AM

Very many professions/trades use just one word for the practitioner - without regard to the gender of the practitioner:

Doctor, dentist, lawyer, engineer, counsellor, librarian, nurse...

But the stage gave rise to "actor" and "actress" - why, I wonder? Like "waiter" and "waitress". The world of the arts also has "artist" and "artiste". Hmmm... must try out "dentiste" sometime...

"Barman" and "barmaid" specifically mention the gender - but I must say I prefer those terms to "barperson". And I have the same opinions as Little Hawk, on the change of terms used for those chairing a meeting.

The illogicality of language is part of its fascination.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 06:21 AM

""The world of the arts also has "artist" and "artiste".""

That's a case of misuse in both directions.

Originally, an "artist" is a person who puts paint on canvas, or produces works of art such as miniatures.

An "artiste" is a performer in art forms such as music, or theatre.

"Artiste" is not the feminine form of artist, nor are they interchangeable.

The one that currently has me hurling abuse at the telly is "incidences", when the speaker means "incidents".

As English Language and Literature were my main subjects both in grammar school and college, I have an affection for the correct use of both grammar and pronunciation.

The way the language is being dumbed down, with hardly a sign of opposition from educators, infuriates me.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 06:23 AM

BTW, you can add me to the Feb-r-uary group LH.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 08:35 AM

The Guardian style guide abandoned "actress" long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 08:35 AM

There's a justification in "chair" as reflecting the idea that it's a formal role rather than an individual. When you "address the chair", it's not a personal conversation. Unless maybe you are Clint Eastwood.

I get annoyed at the creeping presence of "formidable" with the stress on the second syllable rather than the first. No real reason I should, but it feels like it's being imposed.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 09:43 AM

Do what I do and stress the third. ;-

Pretentious, moi?

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 03:23 PM

"Thus, in the modern day ghetto, the term "allright" has become merely..."'ite", and "do you know what I'm saying?" has become "know'msayn'?" (often added unnecessarily after every 2nd or third phrase, which causes its original purpose...brevity...to be defeated by repetitive redundancy!)"

Why does this remind me of J-Roc?

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 04:18 PM

"Thus, in the modern day ghetto, the term "allright" has become merely..."'ite", and "do you know what I'm saying?" has become "know'msayn'?" (often added unnecessarily after every 2nd or third phrase, which causes its original purpose...brevity...to be defeated by repetitive redundancy!)"

When our beloved daughter was a teenager many moons ago, her friends would ring her up on our house phone. One day, I picked up the phone and it was for her. Clearly, she regarded the call as a private one, so she seized the handset and exclaimed "Go vroom!" Translated, this meant "I will go into the other room!" Ever since then, the "other room" in question has always been "vroom". We noted on another occasion, when she'd picked the phone up for herself, the greeting to her friend, "I awhite awhite?" Apparently, this is best rendered as "I'm all right. Are you all right?" The missus and I have greeted each other thus ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 04:23 PM

"Comprised of" always gets on me tits. The woman who does the Any Answers phone-in said it today: "The panel was comprised of..." And next time you hear a newsreader, listen to them referring to the "pry minister" and ask yourself who they could possibly be talking about. Big Brother, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: gnu
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 06:25 PM

I have been shat upon in the past as this is considered 'okay'.... Try and do.

It's... Try TO do.

I do not care if it is acceptable to try and do.

It is illogical and it is not unacceptable. It is not English. It may be "commonly accepted" but that isn't acceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 08:13 PM

Okay...if "shat" is the past tense of "shit", then what is the past perfect of shit?

"Has shut"????

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 08:17 PM

Has shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 08:29 PM

Well gnu, I'm with you 110% ;-) but I fear you're fighting a losing battle. Once a construction becomes common parlance, we're stuck with it, generally speaking. Horrible things such as "alright", "try and", "hopefully" and "disinterested" (for "uninterested") are so often written or spoken that it's hardly worth fighting on the retreat. They will eventually become standard English whether we like it or not. Certain things I find utterly unacceptable and I'll go to me grave fighting 'em. They mostly come under the category of "people of semi-literate tendencies trying to use clever words". I will fart in your general direction, for example, if you ever use "albeit" or "prior to".

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 08:36 PM

Prior to giving consideration to your very cogent thoughts upon the matter, Steve, I had thought it was perfectly alright to say "albeit" now and then...albeit not everyone does. Some are merely disinterested. Some take a more negative stance and are uninterested. Regretfully, this keeps happening. Hopefully, we will see a point where more than 110% of us have reached agreement on exactly what we should try and do about it. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 08:58 PM

:-)

"Albeit" is an inane and pretentious construction which has easy alternatives (try "but" or "although"). I hardly ever come across the use of the term "prior to" where "before" wouldn't have been much better and far less pretentious. I think we're stuck with "hopefully" for ever. "Alright" is a more interesting case. We don't, after all, raise an eyebrow over "already" or "altogether". Mind you, there are useful distinctions between "all together" and "altogether", and between "all ready" and "already". There's the potential for a similar distinction between "all right" and "alright", as long as the distinction is defined along consciously literate lines.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 09:08 PM

Just thought of another one that strikes me as utterly inane, yet is now the norm and is no longer worth fighting. "Thirty miles an hour". I mean, "an hour"? What's that about? Wassup with "thirty miles per hour"?

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: gnu
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 09:43 PM

Steve... yup. But I rail against reality for the sake of my sanity. I detest inane and illogical conversation with brain dead children (adults are far more aggravating) who cannot speak.... speak... in a clear and precise way when they engage in meaningful conversation*.

In my posts, I engage my native tongues and lapse into slang and common usages but not in serious discourse unless it is germane and appropriate in my opinion. When I say 'de arse is gone right clean uttover, dats what I means eh? The affront that I speak of has nutting ta do wit dat dere eh wha? I means, English is English and if she ain't logical den why's some buddy b'y gotta say she's become common usage and I gotta take dat... eh?.... eh?

*The next time someone answers my question with a question I shall not be able to post herein for a while. The earliest... when I make bail.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: JennieG
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 06:32 AM

Steve, isn't there a song which includes the words "Well - I was going round the curve doin' ninety miles an hour......."?

The rest of the words, and the song title, are eluding me - but it is just on my bedtime, after all.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Bert
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 02:20 PM

It may be "commonly accepted" but that isn't acceptable.

I love it gnu!

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 02:46 PM

"Wreck of the Old 97"

♫They were goin' down the grade, makin' 90 miles and hour,
When his whistle broke into a scream.."♫

He would never have written '90 miles per hour'.. literary freedom over technical propriety...

---------------------------------------

"...the utterly ridiculous "chairperson"."

I have always thought that a better word would be 'convenor' as used in the song The Kirk Soiree

"My business grew so rapidly and so did my renown
That soon I was elected to the council o' the town
And they made me the convenor o' the sewerage committee
For the story I had started at the kirk soiree"

I gather that the term is commonly used in Scotland for church business, if not even more widely.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: gnu
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 06:08 PM

Sure as shit uttava a goose it is, Bert! I mean, if common usage sets precedent then I wants nere an atche where there's a hatche and I wants a hatche where there's nere an atche.

That might not be the Queen's English but one ell ova lotta er subjects talks like that eh?

Rules? Pffffft! ANARCHY RULES!

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 10:41 PM

One of the great things about English is it's got so so many words nearly meaning the same but with subtle differences in how and when they fit.

Albeit and although are cases in point.

Cutting down this kind of proliferation of language would be cultural and linguistic vandalism. and that goes for trying to stop the process continuing - though it can't be done anyway.

What's a bit different is when we attempt to preserve those kinds of subtle differences, as when we might object to blurring the difference between rebut and refute.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 10:53 PM

Y'all about whuppped up on this. Yeah, the things that make a person look "ignernt" may drive me nuts but local phrasings and the spoken word? C'mon....Gimmee a break. I really love to hear the way a word is said by the locals and at times it might be respectful to just go with it instead of making fun of it!

I love to hear Ed Schultz on MSNBC do the commercial about growing up. He went to Maury High School in Norfolk, Virginia. Ed says, "Mah-ree high school in Nawfuck." On the other hand, some of them piss me off. This one was on Facebook the other day and the woman nailed it. The word is Ap-uh-lattcha NOT Ap-uh-laysha. You owe it to folks in a region, or a state, or a city, or a street, to say it right!   Where I grew up there was a Tussing Road. We said TOO-sing because that was what the family used and I went to school with several of them. When I came back to Ohio after 15 years that area had grown and now they said Tuh-sing. I corrected someone and they corrected me right back. So I REALLY corrected them. It wasn't a pleasant scene.....

A popular expression in the south and especially the Carolinas is "carry."   "I had my Dadddy carry me down to the Piggly Wiggly." First time I heard that in college I had a vision a the guy riding piggy back to the grocery store. If someone was a homosexual, he was a queer (kweer). No problem, just like we all say it. But if a guy did something odd, it was a queer(kwair). A bit different. Berea opened my eyes a lot. It seemed the I was the one with the funny accent.......I spoke "right kwair" at times.

You can tell where you are in Ohio by how they say the name of the state. Every state tends to have local words and phrases that aren't attuned to our ears but it is to theirs......and we adapt. Except in Maine.....First time I went to Maine I was looking for a college friend and his wife who had just moved in and I had lost the phone number. Ended up at the Police station and spent the next 20 minutes in conversation........or something. Most of it wasa him speaking and I'd say, "Huh?" Then I would speak and he'd say "Huh?"

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 12:03 AM

That's it, Bill - thank you!

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: GUEST,strad
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 11:11 AM

Don't think "You know" has been mentioned yet! Completely and utterly superfluous. A number of highly (over)paid people use it to excess - know what I mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 06:47 PM

There is no difference between "although" and "albeit". Not the merest shade. "Albeit" is an outmoded word which always marks the user out as a pretentious clown. The decline of "albeit" was a natural process (which appears to have gone into reverse, lamentably, thanks to the efforts of the meretriciously-trendy chattering classes), hardly surprising when you consider that its presumed origin, "although it be", is not only somewhat awkward and ungrammatical in itself but also has the words giving rise to its bastard offspring in the wrong order. On top of that, it sounds awkward and it certainly looks awkward in print, almost demanding an unnecessary split-second's mental processing. "Although" is a lovely, elegant word, correctly used. Innit.

Subject: RE: BS: Feb-ROO-ary!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 06:57 PM

Just spotted on a thread elsewhere some wag suggesting that if "albeit" is OK then the plural, "albethey", should be equally acceptable. :-)