BS: Pope resigns

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 07:25 AM

LOL! I'd vote for Father Jack. "Drrrrink! Girrrls!" Should liven things up a bit!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 07:23 AM

I've heard a rumour that Ireland have proposed Father Jack Hackett and Father Dougal McGuire as candidates.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Charmion
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 07:16 AM

Thanks for that, Joe Offer. A reasonable and respectful opinion is a joy to read these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 06:41 AM

Joe, be sure your ringer's on.
If God's paying any attention at all to what the Church needs, they'll be calling you.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 05:43 AM

I wish the next Bishop of Rome all the best, whoever SHE is.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 05:36 AM

""someday we will fully recognize that in America it is the character of the individual that matters, not the label.""

Well almost! It helps if he's a billionaire.

Paupers, however talented, intelligent or nice, need not apply.

America values its citizens by the number of zeros on their annual earnings.

Back on topic, I see no justification in all the vilification of the Roman Catholic Church because a minority of its clergy were abusive criminals and another minority tried to cover it up.

There are millions of believers out there who are a sight more Christian than some of those who attack them (and I use the term Christian in its "way of life" sense, rather than as a religious description).

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 05:10 AM

I think that John Paul II ("The Great") viewed himself as a Living Saint - and, regrettably, a lot of Catholics agreed with him. John Paul II did his best to negate the reforms of Vatican II, and to revive the Cult of the Pope. He was very successful on both counts. He viewed his remaining pope while suffering from Parkinson's disease as a sign of faithfulness, a good example to his "flock." I saw it as a misguided ego trip, and I think John Paul should have resigned five years before his death.

Benedict, on the other hand, was far more rational and far more humble. He resigned because it was a wise thing to do. If you read his statements in paragraphs instead of in sound bites, you'll find he was a reasonable, moderate man who was generally open to discussion. Much has been made of his failure to resolve the child molestation crisis in the Catholic Church, but the fact of the matter is that he is the first one in the Vatican to have done anything - and he had to do that in the face of many powerful men who had denied the problem for decades. Did John Paul II meet with victims and apologize to them? Certainly not - but Benedict did that time and time again, from the beginning years of his papacy.

He wasn't perfect, and I frequently disagreed with him; but I think he's a good man and I think he did the best he could to reverse the travesties of the previous papacy. I'm hoping for some miracle that will give us a pope who will bring joy and wisdom and compassion back to the Catholic Church, but I don't see any candidates the show much promise.

But I'm still hoping. What we need is a Desmond Tutu or a Dalai Lama.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 05:08 AM

In the future, what will Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger have for breakfast?



Ex Benedict!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 05:00 AM

Tunesmith:
"In the USA schoolchildren pledge allegiance to the flag every morning. Is that any different to a religion?"

Well, that is based on reality! The flag represents a country and I'm pretty sure the USA does exist!

Of course, pledging allegiance to the flag is - in reality - pledging allegience to decisions made by politicians.
Now that is a rather dodgy!

Are you referring to the 'pledge of allegience:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


It seems to me that that is also religious.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 04:55 AM

I feel so sorry these days for Catholics who love their church, like my best mate who was the best man at my wedding.

The need for reform in that institution is so obvious.   I'm not ranting with a heavy heart I point out this article.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/03/the_pope_is_not_above_the_law.html

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 04:47 AM

John MacKenzie: "Well Allan, Scotland has a lot of Protestants. and Catholics. However, it's a bit short on Christians!"

Bravo, John!!..Someone who knows the difference!!!

Regards!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 04:31 AM

"Describing him as an outright reactionary is to oversimplify and sloganize."
Wonder if anybody saw the Vincent Brown interview last night on RTE 1 - "outright reactionary" just about sums H H up I'm afraid!!
Don't know if it is available on the RTE website, but well worth a dip into if it is.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 03:24 AM

Well Allan, Scotland has a lot of Protestants. and Catholics. However, it's a bit short on christians!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 03:00 AM

In the Scottish Parliament rather than prayers they start the week with "Time For Reflection" which is supposed to take account of all beliefs and not just Church of Scotland. Speakers are supposed to reflect the population as a whole. Some still criticise it though. Speakers from non Christian religions are supposedly way over-represented in accordance to what their numbers in Scotland are as a % of population - and non religious people are way under-represented.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 02:12 AM

akenaton: "I think the "black Pope trick" would be excellent....that would shut up the "liberal religiphobes".....   :0)"

Yeah..he could take the name Pope A-Ha the 39th!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 07:59 PM

"The world is marked by hotbeds of tension and conflict caused by growing inequality between the rich and poor, by the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic mindset which also finds expression in an unregulated capitalism. " Pope Benedict in his New Year address on January 1st this year.

Describing him as an outright reactionary is to oversimplify and sloganize.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: gnu
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 07:20 PM

From: Megan L - PM
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:00 PM

They say ignorance is bliss Jings there must be a lot of ecstatic folk on mudcat. But then some folk have never let truth stop them from their wee diatribes against religion.

Not my belief system but live and let live.
*********************************************************

Just thought it should be repeated after reading all the shite rather than saying it in a more "forceful manner" which I am prone to do - for any who didn't know... >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:44 PM

I think, Dick, that that is uncalled for. Kimber's Men make some very exciting shanty sounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: bobad
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:36 PM

"I apologise for using the term boring old fart, he is of course not a boring old fart., he is an unexciting, lack lustre, senior, emission of hot air."

He'd fit right in here.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:31 PM

I apologise for using the term boring old fart, he is of course not a boring old fart., he is an unexciting, lack lustre, senior, emission of hot air.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:24 PM

Since when has Joe Stead been a profanity?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:03 PM

It is an over generalization to say that this Pope, of German RC stock, suffered "the Curse of the Blue Nun", but there may be some truth in it.

The idea that the increased involvement of Nun's at the top in selecting the pope may appeal to women never occurred to me - until now.nI had mostly considered the opportunities at the Prish-local level.

Can the "old RC boys club" rescue the RC church top-down structure from obscurity, in today's loosly adhered Christian-aligned world? My observation is that women adhere more strongly to the RC chruch (and have more family influence on the role of youth in the church) than men. Young women may be the strategic RC market of the future. So, is not a crazy strategy to have nuns more involved in the operation of the top levels of the church (versus the old boys club) and in the selection of the Pope. Great strategic marketing idea, Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 05:31 PM

The church and the world wold be a better place if only Nuns were allowed to select and be Pope. The sexism in the church however may not change for another 100 years or more. I think the church prefers its current problems to be not that of Rome so they might go with a Canadian Pope since the Cardinal there is fluent in 6 languages and is the current advisor to Ratner.

I

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 05:28 PM

Danged!!!

I guess these secret pics of the Pope and Honey Boo Boo that I came upon ain't gonna make me rich after all???

B;~(

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 05:24 PM

I dunno, I was thinking as to "best practices" other professions: does the mind actually get better with advanced age? I suspect not in most. If that is the case, a question is "who is really making the day-to-day decisions?

Maybe they need a younger fellow this time?

Seems odd that a "person of significant age" would take over such a demanding task (in todays challenging world), when they should be enjoying retirement. Maybe they need a gnu Pope, as our own newly retired gnu is looking for a gnu career?

As an alternative to gnu, why not a Pope from latin America, India, or somme non-western arena?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 05:23 PM

In the States, if you are not a Christian, you will NEVER become president ( i.e. if you don't profess to follow a 2000yr old myth. you will not win an election!)Guest/Tunesmith

I doubt that very much. We have had several Jews run for presidential office- keep in mind that until we had a Catholic president we had never had one and until we had a Black president, no previous one had been Black.

Before too many cycles, I predict, we will have a Jewish president.

Which is how it should be. Someday we will have a woman president, an Hispanic president... someday we will fully recognize that in America it is the character of the individual that matters, not the label.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Jim McLean
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 05:13 PM

Little Hawk, thanks for your reply: I asked in ignorance of the RC point of view, genuinely seeking an intelligent reply. As an atheist, I was asking a technical question.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 05:04 PM

Can one opt out of this ritual?
You can certainly opt out of morning prayers in parliament.
Even if you do so, you can still become Prime Minister.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 05:00 PM

John MacKenzie says

"In the USA schoolchildren pledge allegiance to the flag every morning. Is that any different to a religion?"

Well, that is based on reality! The flag represents a country and I'm pretty sure the USA does exist!

Of course, pledging allegiance to the flag is - in reality - pledging allegience to decisions made by politicians.
Now that is a rather dodgy!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:31 PM

In the UK, sittings in the Houses of Parliament start with prayers!
In the USA schoolchildren pledge allegiance to the flag every morning. Is that any different to a religion?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Olga
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:28 PM

He as a man has must likely been privileged to the full extent of the depravity on those members of orders and parishes and can no longer play a role in an institution that has attracted so much criticism.

The Jimmy Saville exposure opened peoples eyes, he was one person and did so much damage, thousands of priests did this over the centuries and the gullible still followed them.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:20 PM

What these defenders of religion seem to forget is that religion is imposed on us!
In the States, if you are not a Christian, you will NEVER become president ( i.e. if you don't profess to follow a 2000yr old myth. you will not win an election!)
Now that is nonsense! Very dangerous nonsense!

In the UK, sittings in the Houses of Parliament start with prayers!
That is crazy!

For the sake of the nations sanity, anyone who professes to believe in God should be banned from political life!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:14 PM

We also need some new Cardinals;
Cardinal Ray Kurzweil, Cardinal Lawrence Krauss but best of all...
Cardinal Jenifer Micheal Hecht

Required reading list to select the best people alive;

The Age of Spiritual Machines, The Singularity Is Near
The Meme Machine, Conversations on Consciousness, Creationism's Trojan Horse
The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ, The Golden Compass
Four Laws That Drive the Universe, Galileo's Finger, Doubt: A History, The End of the Soul, Hiding in the Mirror, What Is Secular Humanism?, Science and Religion,

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:12 PM

Respect for those who see when it's time to resign and do so.

As for a black pope, like Obama he may never be considered black enough, if he refuses to celebrate Black Masses.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: JennieG
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:07 PM

Catholics have given up the Pope for Lent?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:58 PM

I reccomend Pope Richard    Dawkins
Pope Steven                Hawking

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Megan L
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:41 PM

Unfortunately certain people in the cat these days are all for free thought as long as we think what they tell us

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Noreen
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:32 PM

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to have an intelligent debate on Mudcat -like when I first joined- without foul-mouthed, narrow-minded abusive posts from those who feel they have to comment on every topic even when they know next to nothing about it?

I am no apologist for the Pope or for the Catholic church, but the resignation and succession have great relevance for many, worldwide- and as such I find it interesting.

If you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion, perhaps you could go and chat somewhere else please?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:27 PM

While a black Pope would be OK as such, much of the "Catholic Christian" church in Africa is horrifyingly repressive.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:14 PM

Religion is a very malicious drug!
Should the media and Governments defer to drug pushers?
I don't think so!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:11 PM

It's possible he may have developed some illness like dementia, or some sort of cancer. That's the only circumstance under which I could see him willingly standing down, unless, as has been suggested by Richard, there is a scandal about to break.

He wasn't a Nazi, he was conscripted by the Nazis and deserted.
can you prove he was not a nazi, anyway he is a backward looking old fart and a boring old fart , even more of a boring old fart than joe stead

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:08 PM

How do you "retire" from being the Voice of God on Earth? Do you have to turn in your handset? What if you kept getting message traffic from the Infinite? Without the Office, what would you do? Perhaps become a beleaguered prophet? What of you kept getting messages and they conflicted with those being received and promulgated by the New Pope? Would Cahos be unleashed amongst the followers?

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:07 PM

Well, its a matter of opinion but a decision that affects many millions for good or ill, both in the way the live generally and in specifics of things like aids seems to be a good deal more newsworthy than most celeb stories, football matches, whether a cyclist did or not take drugs and a heck of a lot of other stuff that passes for news

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:58 PM

What is really worrying is that Governments and the media give so much time and respect to a 2000yr old fairy tale!

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:56 PM

Surely if the next incumbent is to be a black, female,lesbian Pope with learning difficulties she should only have one arm or leg and be colour blind.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:19 PM

Rapparee, you're right, the race of a new Pope shouldn't matter. But each part of the world likes to be able to identify with the Pope. I heard that Africa has the fastest growing numbers of Catholics, and it would encourage them to have a black Pope.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack in the ether
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:17 PM

The Nazi thing was tounge in cheek (the bit about the institution wasn't), but he did serve in the Werhmacht before he had it away on his toes when it was obvious the game was up.

The news just said he abolished purgatory. That was nice of him.

Anyway, he condemned many to a long, slow death from aids for the want of allowing some of the most vulnerable in his flock to stick a nodder on their jake. I bet Jesus loves that.

The papal bull is, apparently 90% horsemeat.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: bobad
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:15 PM

A Cardinal dude from Quebec is apparently among the frontrunners for the gig:Canadian Cardinal Marc Ouellet among frontrunners to replace Pope Benedict XVI.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:14 PM

The absurd part is the hyped notion that this is a stunning crisis for the RC church, let alone the whole world. He's shown the intelligence and grace to spare the institution from having to stumble along with the pretext of having a leader. A lot of people will be hoping for a more open-minded successor, but it won't serve much purpose to stress over something we have absolutely no influence on.

Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:10 PM

Fair point, Richard. Might that be a function of his age, in fact?