BS: Obamacare = Genocide

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Mar 13 - 09:20 AM

Fuck me. I agree with the fluffy pink one.

Ding-Dong - LEARN TO READ. What you call "Obamacare" does NOT fall within the UN definition of genocide and only a fool could think it did.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Mar 13 - 05:00 AM

'Songwronger' - This thread is an insult to all those who ARE facing Genocide.

Only YOU know why you started it, but trust me, you know NOTHING about Genocide, nor the terrible, gut-wrenching fear and trauma suffered by those who have had it visited upon them.

You want to complain about those who inflict Genocide? Then write to President Dilma Rousseff about what she is bringing to the Indigenous Peoples of The Amazon Rainforest, with the Belo Monte Dam...and 60 MORE dams, probably more, also in the Rainforest...

Write to Obama, by ALL means, but write to him about the Genocide which continues against Native Americans to this day!

Write to Stephen Harper too

Write to many of the African leaders...

The Bloody List of Bloodiness is ENDLESS!!

But do NOT DARE try to BELITTLE the Crime of Genocide by starting up such an ignorant thread!

Get a grip, for God's Sake!

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Mar 13 - 02:15 AM

Prof Boff: "Providing contraception to those who want it and abortion on demand is advocating genecide!??
Lots of married couples practice birth control. In your estimation, they are all murderers??
UNREAL!!"

I'm sure any similarity...between these two won't be figured out by activists! ..it's a Greek to him!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Mar 13 - 02:09 AM

I'm not personally attacking Bobert in any way, Don, I'm simply suggesting he might be mistaken assuming racism as a motivator on SW's part. I am suggesting that continually rising to the bait of someone who wants to fight about something is giving them exactly what they want...and succumbing to a sort of predictable, repetitous toxic emotional addiction that justs ends up wasting a lot of everyone's valuable time, makes the day a little worse for all concerned, and changes no one's mind about anything.

No matter how many times you guys fight with Songwronger about Obama, and hurl insults and ridicule, he will still feel exactly as he does, and you will still feel exactly as you do, and you'll continue to grossly stereotype each other at each farthest end of the argument, imagining all kinds of horrible things about one another (many of which are probably way off the mark) and you'll all have wasted another little piece of your valuable lives having a really miserable time together and fucking each other's heads up. It's a stupid way to live a life.

(As I just probably wasted a little piece of mine... even bothering to tell you.)

I have no idea who's been making the slanderous attacks on you lately. I probably already avoided the specific threads on which they've been happening, since the title (or the just first lot of hostile, insult-laden posts) are usually enough to warn me off them right from the getgo.

You notice how many people here NEVER appear on the political threads. Ever wonder why?

This place is childish, Don, when it comes to discussing political subjects. It's a sorry shame to see adult human beings acting as they do on the political threads here and dumping their emotional poison on each other continually.

Mind you, it's not as bad as the Youtube comments...but Youtube is full of teenagers and kids, and they can be excused to some extent for apparently not having developed the slightest notion of how to treat each other decently.

If you want to talk about it further, PM me. This thread is just another damn toxic political waste dump, and I'm dumping it right now. If I could make it and the other political threads vanish off my screen, I would.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Mar 13 - 12:56 AM

Little Hawk, I don't know if it's racism or whatever else might be involved, but what tends to "outrage" me is the obviously hate-filled spreading of blatant lies about someone, whether they are well-known, such as a national politician, or an obscure private citizen. I don't enjoy it at all, but I feel that is one's moral responsibility to try to set the record straight.

And I take a pretty dim view of people who get on someone's case when that someone else speaks out against such such lies, and attempts to set the record straight.

I have recently been the target of lies and slanderous attacks from one particular individual right here on Mudcat. A few people have spoken out, standing up for me, and believe me, I really appreciate it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 11:29 PM

Naw...that's just way too easy, Bobert.

I very seriously doubt that racism has anything to do with Songwronger's objections to Obama. He just doesn't like Obama's policies, that's all, and he's made it plain enough times that he doesn't like the Republicans one bit either. This isn't your standard "Oh, he's not for MY party so he must be for the other one!" situation here. Nor is it your standard "Oh, he must be against Obama because he's a Black man" thing either.

To just jump on that made-to-order line is exactly like the Israelis jumping to the accusation of anti-Semitism whenever someone disagrees with them about anything. It's a cheap shot.

I think Songwronger is beating a completely dead horse in this thread...a pointless dead horse...but I don't think he's doing it for the reasons you suggest at all.

He might be doing it just to piss you off. Or maybe he thinks it actually matters? But how could he?

I think perhaps it's just become his hobby to battle with you and the others who always rise like fish to the very obvious bait he offers. He must enjoy it a good deal, seems to me.

Are you guys all enjoying it too? Do you relish the sense of outrage, and the predictable return to the usual fray? I have to wonder...it looks very much like a symbiotic relationship to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 11:28 PM

No, we don't all agree on that, GUEST...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 11:20 PM

Okay. So Obamacare is genocide. We all agree on that.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 11:08 PM

Wrongman has such a hatred of Obama that there is nothing that Obama could do that wrongman would twist and spin into...

...evilness...

For folks who ain't caught up in Obama hate it sho nuff looks like it this hate is racially motivated...

But when anyone brings up the racial motive the racists scream back, "racist" at the accusers... They want it both ways... They want a free reign to peddle their hate but when called they say the the callers are the real haters, which is a sick and border line mentally ill joke...

What if we had just allowed lynchings to continue for fear of being called racists if we stood up to stop them???

Very strange defense by these people...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 10:54 PM

Well, Songwronger, it appears to me that the U.N. didn't think carefully enough about the wording in their definition of genocide. They forgot to word it so as to permit birth control in a nation in connection with what occurs in a tax-related program.

Does this matter?

Why don't you write the people at the U.N. and advise them to get the specific wording changed so that Mr Obama won't be technically violating the complex terms they have set out (by strict legal interpretation of the wording). They probably didn't think of an ordinary tax situation when they were talking about "imposed measure". All taxes, after all, are imposed by the government which passes them, but I doubt that the U.N. had that in mind in regards to a ruling on genocide! ;-) I mean, get serious...!

My real question is...well, no, I have 2 real questions. ;-D

1. Why do you care about this in the first place? It's trivial.

2. And...why are all the furious posters here bothering to react in such an apoplectic manner to what you've said about it?

Because...this is something that doesn't matter. Why should anyone care? It's nitpicking about legal language, not a real problem of any kind.

There are definitely things to object to concerning Obamacare, serious things, but this thing you've brought up is utterly trivial and irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 10:13 PM

Why, yes...

We should go back to a time when white women of means took those little (wink, wink) vacations south of the border poor people (disproportionately black) died in back room makeshift clinics (if you could even call them that) by people who had little or no medical training...

I'm sure that the wrong-man doesn't recall those days or why Roe V. Wade came about... It was about civil rights and fairness...

I guess that wrongman would be happy having predominantly black women dieing like back then... Thousands every year...

Seems to me that what we had back then was genocide because it targeted black women...

No???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Songwronger
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 09:12 PM

The points I'm trying to address here are:
1) The UN has a very precise definition of genocide, and
2) Obamacare = genocide according to that definition.

The UN convention on genocide defines it as, among other things, "imposing measures to prevent births within the (national) group."

Well, I'm being taxed (by Obamacare) in order to provide abortions and contraceptives. A tax is an imposed measure, and the Obamacare tax is being used to prevent births within America. That is genocide, technically speaking.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 06:37 PM

Hear! Hear!

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 06:15 PM

Dead right, Sugarfoot Jack. It's been happening in Canada too...although to a lesser extent. The basic deal is that the richest bastards in the land are padding their own pockets at every else's expense. They get richer. We get poorer.

****

jeff - No one knows for sure when life actually begins...but people have a million different opinions about it. Just ask them. Their opinions are crafted to suit their political stand, generally speaking.

****

Obamacare was a lacklustre betrayal of the liberal hopes of millions of people who voted for him, because it's mostly a big cash windfall for the privately owned health insurance industry. That's NOT what the people who voted for Obama had in mind when they elected him! What the Obama administration really is, is: Republican Lite.

No surprise there. That's what Clinton was too. It tells me that the Oligarchy runs both those parties like puppets on strings and always gets what it wants, no matter which one gets elected. If Obama had any intention of really challenging them, he'd very soon be a dead man, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 03:51 PM

Please, Stringsinger enlighten us as to when 'life' actually begins? Conception? 2 weeks? 3 months? 6 months? 9 months? Birth? After being weaned? 3 years after birth? 5 years? 10 years?

You seem to have an inside track on this. Pray, tell us.

Btw, Obamacare as scarey as it is in nowhere NEAR as scarey as Paul Ryan's ideas. He's an unapolgetic ageist and open proponent of euthanasia.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Stu
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 03:18 PM

LH - but there is a general drift, driven by whomever, towards the mass arming of citizens and there is a fundamental distrust of any government policy that seeks to use taxpayer's money for social projects such as free healthcare. It feels as if the momentum is with the free marketeers and pro-gun lobby and it seems as if reason is fast disappearing into the ether, driven away by the sort of mean-spirited right-wingers who seed fear amongst the population in the most disgusting manner; it's why Gitmo is still open. My US friends are virtually all pro-Obama and the ones who are medical doctors crave an NHS-style health service that would improve the lives of countless Americans.

This isn't a US issue either. Here in the UK the drift to the right and the idealogical battle being waged against the welfare state, the demonisation of the poor and disabled and the marginalisation of any voice not pro-austerity continues apace. In fact, the "country" is throughly miserable at the moment (apart from the toffs and millionaires) as even entrepreneurs are struggling to prise money from the banks to run their businesses. Recessions can offer opportunities for the bold but even this most sacred of right-wing ideals has gone to the wall in the rush to destroy the welfare state and take us back to the misery of the pre-war public health system, which was basically if you can't pay you're fucked.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 02:56 PM

Yes, Jack, there are many people, unfortunately duped by the media and partyline propaganda who DO support oppressive policies that fleece them and reward the governing elite. They simply aren't aware of how they're being fleeced. They're not a majority of "the country", but I'll readily agree that they represent maybe 20-25% of it. The sad thing is that they are unwittingly supporting the very forces who profit by their enslavement. This happens in most other places too. It's an old story.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 02:41 PM

You ain't seen nothin' yet! Just wait for....ChongoCare.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 01:08 PM

I approve Sugarfoot Jack's message.
Don't namecall.
It makes you look even worse than you really are.
It's a substitute for violence, you know.
A poor one.
Be civil.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Stu
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 12:57 PM

Ah, the joys of Mudcat shit-slinging.

People trying to have a conversation only to be derailed by the usual suspects, who appear incapable of accepting any opinions other than their own which are, of course, very highly-regarded (by themselves), erudite and diamond-like in because of their clear, flawless logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 11:01 AM

""Several other posters: calling someone 'stupid' etc for having a different opinion than yours isn't necessarily the best form of conversation.""

So, what would you have us call somebody who exhibits stupidity on a regular and consistent basis, and hasn't yet managed to make a single post with any intelligence behind it?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 09:27 AM

Songwronger, if contraceptives were in the water, if abortion were forced on people who had children, then it would be genocide.
Offering it as a choice to people is not genocide.
Several other posters: calling someone 'stupid' etc for having a different opinion than yours isn't necessarily the best form of conversation.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Stu
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 08:29 AM

"I can't figure out why anyone should love the US"

Because it's a wonderful, diverse country, full of polite, curious, intelligent people that are resourceful and have a refreshingly positive attitude. I can't get on board with the whole gun thing and the fact that there is no safety net to catch people who need help, but there you are. I can't get on board with having a royal family so there you go.

Also, the US has the most incredible palaeontological resources and the people that work on them are fantastic workers and generous with their time and knowledge.

"You are as ignorant as the original poster if you think "The Country" wants that. If "The Country" wants those things why is there debate about those things. Why are they elections over them?

Wow. Are your piles playing up again and making you grouchy? You know full well what I meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 08:17 AM

I think Obamacare is a Republican shit sandwich that we're all going to be force fed.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 06:52 AM

""Sterlization. The answer.""

Too late! The OP is already in the gene pool.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 06:53 PM

Sterlization. The answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 06:40 PM

I've seen no argument to refute the fact that Obamacare = genocide.

The imposition of taxes to fund abortions and contraception fits the definition of genocide (see my previous posts).

And I am not in favor of Obamacare. I am in favor of expanding Medicaire to cover all Americans. Obamacare is a big money conduit to private insurance companies. And Obamacare is genocide, according to the U.N.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 03:41 PM

Trolls must be fed! If not and the trolls starve would that not also be genocide?

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 03:24 PM

thousands

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 03:18 PM

There are thousand of people, not in the oligarchy who fight for such things LH. 20-25% of the country maybe. But not the whole country.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 02:32 PM

It isn't "the country" that wants whatever our various governments do. The people are the country. It's a little oligarchy of very rich and powerful individuals (mostly men in suits), less than 1% of the population who want what our governments do. It profits them.

The people can't do bloody much about it, because that same little crowd of rich guys owns the major political parties and determines national policy no matter which party gets elected.

They quibble over various details, yes. But they agree on the fundamental basics of war and finance.

You get to choose version A, B, or C of their program when you go to the polls to vote (but in the USA...only A & B). Those versions all sound a bit different, but the differences are strictly cosmetic. That's why Obama sounds liberal...he looks liberal...you'd swear he WAS liberal!...but he conducts strongly conservative fiscal and foreign policy. The Republicans look conservative (and how!)...they sound conservative (if not downright fascist)...when elected they conduct strongly conservative policy.

Heads, the rich win. Tails, the rest of us lose. That's the political game in the early 21st century. The parties exist just to baffle you, keep you divided, and keep you thinking you still have a viable choice when you go to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 02:07 PM

By all means, reduce the birth rate by all means possible. Too damn many humans for the earth's capabilities.
If that is genocide, so be it!

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 01:28 PM

Songwronger, you have misinterpreted "(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;" as having to do with contraception and termination of pregnancy as applied to sperm insemination or latent fetuses. The argument still remains as to what constitutes a "birth". Conception is not the beginning of life as propaganda by anti-Choice people suggest.

What is meant by imposing measures has to do with governmental policies such as practiced in China to not allow certain births to take place and specifically to not allow a woman the right to choose whether to give birth or not.

If it weren't for Obamacare, I might not be here today as it helped me finance a triple bypass operation.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 01:16 PM

"Wow. The country that wants to put guns in the hands of it's teachers deny free healthcare to those most in need, and attempt to stifle any move towards helping others."

You are as ignorant as the original poster if you think "The Country" wants that. If "The Country" wants those things why is there debate about those things. Why are they elections over them?

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 09:35 AM

As a woman, I interpret the provision of contraception and abortion services by government-funded agencies as a measure to increase citizens' ability to build their families to the size of their choice, at the speed that is best for them.

One could say that the Highway Traffic Act is a measure to forbid pedestrians and cyclists to use high-speed controlled-access highways, but that would be to mistake an isolated effect of the law for its intended purpose -- never a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 06:18 AM

""My simple point is, the Convention indicates that "imposing measures to prevent births within the (national) group"!""

You really couldn't pass the entry test for imbecile, could you.

Offering people the choice to use, or not use, contraception and termination is not imposing anything on anybody.

Come back and tell us about genocide when you see troops holding guns to peoples heads and forcing them to use contraceptives, or a new law being enacted to make contraceptive use compulsory.

That's what constitutes imposing measures to prevent birth, and nobody is doing that, especially not Obama.

Ask your shrink to increase the meds man.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 06:14 AM

I can't figure out why anyone should love the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Stu
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 06:07 AM

Wow. The country that wants to put guns in the hands of it's teachers deny free healthcare to those most in need, and attempt to stifle any move towards helping others.

I love the US deeply, but I really hope any visiting aliens do not land there and get the impression that we're all quite so lacking in compassion and common sense as a society.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 05:06 AM

I have won trophies for debating, in the past. I find it usually helps to understand what words mean, which Dongplonker plainly does not.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 02:45 AM

I get it: Songwronger's tactic is to state a proposition and then to take one side of it; he doesn't necessarily believe a word of it, he thinks of it as a debate. I think he is trying to get on the High School Sophomore debating team. I doubt that he'll make it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: GUEST,Niggardly Bastard
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 01:33 AM

I approve Songwronger's message.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 12:57 AM

Yeah, there does seem to be an ObamaTrauma team here. But as I stated earlier, this is a bi-partisan thing. The Repubs are just as guilty as the Dems.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 12:53 AM

Obamacare imposes a tax in order to reduce the birth rate. Genocide, according to the U.N.

There, that's as simple as I can state it. If I had crayons maybe I could draw pictures that would get through.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 12:49 AM

He's drawn forth the usual set of emergency responders, hasn't he, Don? I imagine he feels quite satisfied with the result.

No...wait...Bobert still hasn't shown up.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 12:44 AM

Songwronger, you have to twist like a pretzel to come to the conclusions you come to.

Not very bright? Bright enough to know that there is a difference between "providing" and "imposing."

Get a grip, man!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 12:39 AM

Aww, heck, this is nothing, man. If you knew what Chongo has planned for when HE gets elected president, your hair would turn white overnight and your testicles would shrivel up, drop off, and fall on the floor like a couple of dessicated little raisins!

Count your blessings, I say. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 12:35 AM

You guys aren't very bright, are you?

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 12:33 AM

Obamacare proposes to use tax money to provide contraception and abortions. That is "imposing measures to prevent births within the (national) group." Taxpayers are imposed upon, forced to partipate in a process which reduces the birth rate. Genocide.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:40 PM

im·pose (m-pz)
v. im·posed, im·pos·ing, im·pos·es
v.tr.
1. To establish or apply as compulsory; levy: impose a tax.
2. To apply or make prevail by or as if by authority: impose a peace settlement. See Synonyms at dictate.
3. To obtrude or force (oneself, for example) on another or others.
4. Printing To arrange (type or plates) on an imposing stone.
5. To offer or circulate fraudulently; pass off: imposed a fraud on consumers.
v.intr.
To take unfair advantage: You are always imposing on their generosity.

Read the fucking dictionary you alarmist ignorant tit. At least read the definitions of the words you intent to use.

Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare = Genocide
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:27 PM

Wrongsonger, if you are actually so eff'n stupid that you have no idea of the difference between "allow" and "impose"...
Or if you are so eff'n stupid that you think for a moment that anyone else here is so eff'n stupid as to believe a word of your crap...