Bob Brozman legal issues

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Anon.
Date: 30 May 13 - 07:10 PM

Do you not for a moment consider that you are damning a man based WHOLLY on nothing but absolute rumor sourced from an Internet message board?

And isn't it especially shameful for thecountryblues.com to begin their article so fairly:

" thecountryblues.com is a music site. We do not wish to cause harm to the Brozman family nor to cast dispersions upon a man who was so admired as a musician."

And end it as such:

"Sadly, Mr. Brozman's profile on this site has consequently been removed in solidarity with the victims."

... Victims who there has been no evidence provided to prove even exist.

I should hope that any one of you would would expect not to be damned so quickly were it you being accused by an Internet message board.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 13 - 12:24 AM

Um... Innocent men commit suicide all the time.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,James Johnson
Date: 21 May 13 - 04:52 PM

This sums this whole horrific debacle up rather succinctly:
http://www.thecountryblues.com/artist-reviews/bob-brozman/

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 13 - 04:18 PM

Sid you are naive if you think rich pedos can't travel the world and never get caught. Life and dignity are cheap in many places. Right here in the West too lots of places.

Watch the documentary Shadow Billionaire about Larry Hillblom.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Suzy T.
Date: 20 May 13 - 03:11 PM

I believe that legal action is forthcoming. We can't help with that, in fact our hearsay may even get in the way of justice.
Those who are involved with legal action are almost certainly not allowed to say anything about this matter publicly while legal action is pending.
Let's give the victims some time and space --- the wheels of legal action can grind very slowly and that is a GOOD thing in this case, since the alleged perp isn't around to commit any more crimes.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Sid from Australia
Date: 19 May 13 - 09:03 PM

I think it is wrong to say, if the original allegations are true, that he travelled the world as a predatory pedophile. Surely if this part was true then their would be more allegations coming out but these are all old allegations. Don't want to imply that all allegations should not be investigated just that I don't feel he was the ongoing predator he is now made out to be. He spent time when travelling with other Muso's & living with their families so surely there is eithher more allegations or he stopped..

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 13 - 02:52 PM

Rick Turner is right on the money!

The issue here should be first determining whether this man was abusing poor and powerless children on his constant global travels through the third world and if so working to protect those children from further abuse by local pimps. That should be the PRIMARY focus of any investigation now.

Everyone has to heal but healing is never served by silence and ignoring the suffering of others. People who know facts supporting the idea that this man was a serial pedophile with power and money have an obligation to the world to testify as to what they know or suspect.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: open mike
Date: 18 May 13 - 03:19 AM

When i heard that he had died, i posted on facebook, checked here, and called my local radio station to ask the d.j. to play his music. Now I am saddened to hear about the unfolding story...but i have resisted posting any more..but am sorry to hear about his troubles and those he caused others. May the healing begin. (ironically the song the d.j. chose to play was "Death Don't Have No Mercy" and perhaps that is true!

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 13 - 12:31 AM

Rick, according to the database of bishopaccountability.org, a good number of molester priests have gone to prison for their crimes. It's a hard crime to prove, however, and the crimes are often not reported for years after they happen.

-Joe Offer-

Oh.....post #400.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Rick Turner
Date: 17 May 13 - 11:56 PM

I wonder if...or how many...priests have gone to jail for abuse of alter boys out of all of those cases that seem to have been "settled" by the legions check signers of Rome...

And, so, too, do voices seem quieted by hush money from Michael Jackson, even from past the veil of tears.   

How many Hail Mary's and seven figure checks does it take to utterly negate child abuse and erase it from history?

We're in the territory of discussing one of the greatest taboos of at least Western Civilization here. Standing on shaky ground...thin ice...and next to the fires of Hell here, but...

Looks to me as though indulgences are still for sale.

To quote Richard Thompson from the other night: "Good things happen to bad people...and the opposite is true..." The best thing that could happen in this case would be for all the rumours and accusations to be proved false.   

Are any of us holding our breath?

Yeah, me again...Rick Turner

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 13 - 10:52 PM

All of this makes me think of Woody Allen's "Sweet and Lowdown" about, roughly, a lowdown man who makes sweet art.

In the real world, I have separating the two myself. Especially in the present tense.

Also, I think Bob's narcissism unfortunately came through loud and clear in his music. Despite his tremendous talents I never loved his music for this very reason.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Suzy T.
Date: 16 May 13 - 09:16 PM

In that case, I suggest that everyone back off and let the legal machinations run their course. It won't speed things up to hash stuff out here, and it may even slow things down. If there are indeed legal steps being taken, you can be pretty sure that those who are involved are not able to speak publicly right now.
Even if these horrible things are true, it doesn't wipe out Bob's excellence as a musician. It's possible to admire the art that someone creates, while still despising them as a person.
Happy said it very clearly:
Assuming the charges are true, do they negate a lifetime of musical excellence, deep knowledge of traditional music, and the first rate instruction that has delighted and informed so many aspiring players? How do you separate the good works that someone does in his lifetime from whatever evil he may have perpetrated? Sony didn't destroy all of Michael Jackson's recordings when he was accused of child molestation; the Catholic church doesn't stop functioning when untold numbers of priests are accused of similar, possibly even more heinous, crimes

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 13 - 12:37 PM

"there's no real reason why those of us not actually personally involved should have to be in the loop."

I disagree.It would be good to know whether it is true or not so we can decide whether we want to continue watching his DVDs or listening to his music.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Henry Krinkle
Date: 15 May 13 - 08:38 PM

An email to me from Happy Traum:
Dear Henry and Richard,

Thanks for your note. You have touched on a painful and difficult subject for us all, both at Homespun and in the greater music community. While we were horrified to hear of the rumors about Bob just as we were reeling from his sudden and unexpected death, the charges we are hearing pose a moral dilemma for us and everyone else who has been associated with him.

First, he has not been tried or convicted of anything in a court of law and we have no way of knowing whether there is, in fact, guilt or what the extent of it might be. I am not saying they never happened but we simply don't know, and he is no longer here to defend himself.

Then, assuming his guilt, there is the issue of whether, as you suggest, we should delete his works from our catalog and, by extension, whether other companies should delete all of his other recordings, books and performances. Do we deprive his blameless widow or daughter of the royalties that his work would bring them? Are they to be punished further for his sins?

Again, assuming the charges are true, do they negate a lifetime of musical excellence, deep knowledge of traditional music, and the first rate instruction that has delighted and informed so many aspiring players? How do you separate the good works that someone does in his lifetime from whatever evil he may have perpetrated? Sony didn't destroy all of Michael Jackson's recordings when he was accused of child molestation; the Catholic church doesn't stop functioning when untold numbers of priests are accused of similar, possibly even more heinous, crimes.

All of this is to say that I don't know the answer. For now, we will leave it up to our customers, like yourselves, who may no longer want to purchase Bob's materials. If you choose not to buy any other Homespun products, that's also your option, but we sincerely hope you will not feel that way. None of us saw this coming and we are as horrified as everyone else, but we are trying to find our way through it.

With best regards,

Happy Traum Homespun Tapes Ltd. email: [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Tom Ball
Date: 15 May 13 - 08:08 PM

^^^^^ Well stated, Suzy, and completely agreed. ^^^^^
--Tom Ball

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Suzy T.
Date: 15 May 13 - 06:29 PM

Suzy Thompson here. Although I can see the value in having an online place for people to express their grief and disbelief, and to vent about their feelings, I am thinking that perhaps it is time to let the survivors deal with the situation, whether that means legally, spiritually or in some other way. No doubt about it, Bob was a great player of music but a horribly flawed human being.
For those wondering why those who had gotten wind of the pedophile accusations earlier didn't speak up, speaking only for myself, it was to respect the privacy of the victimised. As others posting here have already said very clearly, taking legal action on child molestation charges can be very very tricky, and can easily harm the victim more than the perpetrator. I have no idea what, if any, legal action is underway right now, and frankly, since the (alleged) perpetrator is dead, there's no real reason why those of us not actually personally involved should have to be in the loop. A dead person can't commit any more crimes.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,James Johnson
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:03 PM

This is all horrible news. I can't imagine that well respected professionals like Duck Baker, Rick Turner and David Lindley would put their names to something so horrific without having at least some veritable knowledge about the accusations from entirely credible sources. Ditto for Gary Atkinson and wife #1.
There are a few posthumous cryptically significant facts floating around including the youtube video where BB demonstrates total facility a couple weeks before his death, his snarky comments about Michael Jackson on the IGS forum, his amplifier with the "Running Man" logo."Running from what?" Good question.....

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 13 - 01:13 PM

Any word of the statement from the victims' families that is supposed to be forthcoming?

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: sugarinthegourd
Date: 14 May 13 - 05:56 PM

Frankly, there are a lot of financial disincentives for his survivors to be forthcoming about this. The fact that no one who knows him well has denied this or defended him -- NO ONE as far as I can see -- speaks volumes.

This may not have ever come out in this public way, had that story not been invented about why he killed himself. I think an unexplained suicide would have been sad and puzzling but the idea that he did it because he couldn't play guitar anymore -- that just didn't add up.

That whole line seems to have come from his producer Daniel Thomas, who seems to have been silent through the rest of this. Hopefully he was passing on what he believed to be the truth, rather than making a clumsy attempt to cover up a scandal.

John Salmon

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 13 - 03:35 PM

While he may have been a brilliant player, it's no secret that Bob could be an abrasive guy and probably burned a bridge or two for every door he opened. Still I was saddened to hear of his death, and further saddened at the disclosure that his death was by suicide. And now this.

Personally I'm witholding opinion until further evidence is presented; however I will admit to having a sinking feeling about all of this. I wonder if we'll ever know? From what I've heard -- and this is by no means confirmed -- there was at least one suicide note and one source has told me there was more than one, however his family is certainly under no obligation to make details public. (Under similar circumstances, would you? I wouldn't.)

Whatever the outcome of all this, ALL victims and survivors of child abuse deserve our help, support and prayers.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,William Hardy
Date: 14 May 13 - 02:26 PM

Perhaps I was a bit passionate calling him a coward, but regardless if it was disability that caused him to commit suicide, then he shouldn't be lionized. There are a lot of reasons that people commit suicide, but I think that reasonable people can agree that it is not something that should be celebrated.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Anon
Date: 14 May 13 - 12:02 PM

In the unlikely event that Bob Brozman was innocent of the accusations, he does not deserve to be called a "coward" for checking out early for whatever reason(s) he had.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,William Hardy
Date: 14 May 13 - 11:03 AM

Though I will reserve judgment regarding the allegations of whether Mr. Brozman is indeed guilty of the sexual abuse of children, I will say that when such allegations are made I personally re-live much of the trauma of my own past. Yes, I survived being repeatedly raped as a young boy some forty years ago. The man who did this was a respected leader in the community. Though I told my parents, they chose to "save me the embarrassment" and trauma. Given the lack of sympathy I have seen on this forum, perhaps this was a good choice, but ultimately I wish that they had made a different choice because recovery is hard when there is no justice. I hope that if there are victims here that they receive support and their stories are heard, and the adults in their lives don't belittle their stories or cover them up just because the person who abused them was respected figure with extraordinary gifts with music. This would have made all the difference for me personally and would have saved me from the pain that I still feel and may have prevented me from being the victim of domestic violence later in life. Childhood rape and later being a victim of domestic violence are linked.

On another note, even if these allegations are completely false, I am saddened that a person who claimed to be an educator would take his own life because of a disability. This could have been a teachable moment. I think of individuals with physical and mental disabilities, including my son and myself, and wonder about the message that this leaves us. I was born with high functioning autism, severe heart problems, and a terrible speech impediment, but never felt a need to give up because of it. Suicide was never an option even in the darkest of moments. Rather, I worked hard and survived and became a successful attorney.

I think of people who have lost limbs in wars, in some of the same Third World countries that Mr. Brozman championed, and because of recent terrorist acts. Many of them have chosen to fight and not kill themselves. Some have creatively found ways to accommodate their disabilities and even learn to play the guitar with only one arm. If Mr. Brozman couldn't play the guitar anymore, he could have inspired people in other ways as a teacher.

I am amazed at some of the victims of the recent Boston marathon bombings who have vowed to run in the marathon next year even though they lost a leg or even two.

Even if he is totally innocent of these allegations, he will remain a coward to those of us who have disabilities and have chosen to live with them and have tried to inspire others by over-coming difficulties and surviving.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Ken Emerson
Date: 14 May 13 - 10:11 AM

Wow, I feel like my pineapple juice got spiked. What a surreal shitstorm we have here at this site folks. And for good reason, as the accusations are severe. I think time will bear things out.. now that this cat is out of the bag, phantom or not. It's all too weird. Maybe R. Crumb needs to tackle this one in a comic for it to 'make sense'. . Malama pono ohana o Lopaka.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,JJ
Date: 14 May 13 - 10:02 AM

Trying the link to St. Bob again:

http://photos.santacruzsentinel.com/2013/03/13/editorial-cartoons-steven-decinzo/#3

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,JJ
Date: 14 May 13 - 09:57 AM

This has been sitting out there for a week now:

http://photos.santacruzsentinel.com/2013/03/13/editorial-cartoons-steven-decinzo/#3

That's THE LOCAL PAPER, which, as far as I can tell, has NOT EVEN CONFIRMED his death as a suicide in print.

Rick Turner, you're out there, perhaps you can find out why the information is so slow in emerging...

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: kendall
Date: 14 May 13 - 06:48 AM

Sigh

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: Stefan Wirz
Date: 14 May 13 - 06:43 AM

... as a father of two daughters and a grandfather to a bunch of grandchildren I thank Duck Baker, Helen Roche, Rick Turner and a few others for their sensible and caring contributions to this most delicate topic ...
... as a Mudcat member since 1999 (and one who never did hide behind any pseudonym) I have to state that in all those nearly 15 years I never noticed any threat "moderated" that poorly than this one - I admit that the issue (and some of the participants) obviously is/are most difficult to handle ...

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 13 - 01:55 AM

Promise?

Attacking me doesn't excuse all of your bad behavior. Any of you. It may feel good to strike out, but you're a bunch of boors.

I know Gary Atkinson, Mary Christine, and Duck only by reputation; Lindley I know pretty well, and to a lesser degree but still personally, Suzy Thompson. I consider them all to be reputable sources of information as well as those I know here in Santa Cruz. So I think that the smoke has indicated fire.

Then why are all of you harassing the mudcat crowd? Go aid the victims you are sure are out there.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 13 - 12:46 AM

I am not among your in-crowd here. I see handles, and frankly, I don't know who you are, nor do I care to go digging to find out who the more offensive people are behind the pseudonyms. I see words spoken to me and to others here that I simply would not say to anyone I did not know or around people I do not know. I can be as salty in speech as the next guy, but I try to keep a civil tongue in my head and not to use the f-bomb among strangers. I certainly do not tell anyone to "go the fuck back to their home town", as you, SRS, told me to do.

I am disgusted to see what I believe is some of the worst Internet forum moderation going on here that I've ever seen. SRS, you are using language that would get you banned from any of the other music or lutherie forums on which I spend time. You are clearly too emotionally wrapped up in this thread to maintain civil discourse. I would suggest that you seriously consider ceding your post to a more level headed person or to someone who doesn't have what appears to be "skin in the game".

I dare say that I am many miles closer to the epicenter of this whole situation than 95% of the other folks posting here, and I dare say that I am also probably a lot closer in terms of who heard what from whom locally and closely connected to the source than 90% of you. I know that NONE of us want to believe any of this, and that goes for those whose hearts are mostly with the apparent victims as well as those whose admiration for Bob's musical ability makes it hard to believe that anything like this could be remotely possible. I know Gary Atkinson, Mary Christine, and Duck only by reputation; Lindley I know pretty well, and to a lesser degree but still personally, Suzy Thompson. I consider them all to be reputable sources of information as well as those I know here in Santa Cruz. So I think that the smoke has indicated fire.

And this is the last you'll read of me here unless and until more solid information comes forth. Time for me to get back to building some guitars and working out some of those chord melody parts on tenor uke for my band, "Uke Ellington"...

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,no limbaugh no hate no agenda beyond
Date: 14 May 13 - 12:13 AM

No Limbaugh from me my friend - farthest thing from it. Just someone who remembers when a lot of bad things were justified by a lot of good people in the name of ideals taken to extremes. If you weren't there read up - some of you lived it as adults - some of us grew up in it. But no one is advocating historical witch hunts. Just willingness to protect children today - and that generally means education, open discussion of reality, and vigilance against cover-ups by the powerful.

Thanks for keeping this thread open and thanks to the sensible posters.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Rick Turner
Date: 13 May 13 - 11:47 PM

Yes, I'm the Rick Turner who played with Ian and Sylvia in 1965 (along with my murdered friend, Felix Pappalardi...another story...), toured all over the US and Canada and recorded a couple of albums with them..."Play One More" and "Live at Newport". And yes, I'm the guy who co-founded Alembic, who has built PA systems, guitars, ukes, and basses for a lot of folks, and continues to do so to this day. Some of you probably know a lot of my client list, and so I put my name here understanding the risks...but I also wouldn't think of posting anonymously here or anywhere else. I think it's cowardly and a cop-out. It also greatly diminishes the validity of a post whether it be about a "fact" or be merely opinion.   

And yes, I'm a part of the Santa Cruz music scene, both acoustic and electric. And yes, I knew Bob as a pretty decent (word used advisedly...) acquaintance and as someone who took one of his uke workshops and had dinner at his house with him and Haley. And yes, I'm at least as shocked as many here and would like to know more about what happened. And yes, I've talked to close friends here who are one degree closer to this whole debacle than I am myself, and they confirm that the allegations are most likely true and accurate...and I only say "most likely" out of restraint. I would like all of this to be a big mistake, but there are a lot of things I'd like that just aren't going to happen. And if Bob were alive to this day, it would be "he said, she said"...don't forget that OJ managed to get away with it on the one hand, yet Jimmy Saville seems to have been soundly convicted in the court of public opinion. What is the standard of proof when the defendant is dead?   

Does the pope want to believe that he's got a whole army of buggery addicted priests? No... But...he does...

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Limbaugh alert
Date: 13 May 13 - 11:37 PM

"normalization of pedophilia"


having not heard this before, I had to google the phrase to see where it came from.


gosh, what a surprise. Rush Limbaugh.

Let me see if I can deconstruct it:   the left "normalized" pedophilia during the free-love sixties because they are all secretly pedophiles.   It's going to be their next invasion in the culture war, right after they've jammed gay marriage down our throats...er, so to speak.

Did I miss anything?


Just what this incredibly poisonous discussion needs.   the forced injection of right-wing talking points.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Fang's cousin
Date: 13 May 13 - 11:13 PM

Can we get a lullaby CD for Gene Rosenthal? I know he's not a child, in terms of age, but maybe something that can help bring him back down to earth? :>

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 May 13 - 09:51 PM

Insulting Spaw here is kinda like walking into the Clampett's house and insulting Granny - who Spaw greatly resembles. Keep in mind that Spaw is grumpy because he has one body part that can only be seen with an electron microscope - and another bodily orifice that could swallow North Dakota { which it greatly resembles }. Currently he is working on a project for the government that we hope will turn his gaseous emissions into a renewable energy source. Whether this will be considered "green" energy is still being debated.   

I've known him - and his real name - for close to 15 years. He's a fine example of a citizen that I'm proud to know. He's a little like Mother Teresa, Jr Samples and Donald Trump all rolled into one.

Now that I've filled you in let's all get back to trashing each other - and please - let's continue to let nameless "guests" dominate the conversation.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 May 13 - 07:59 PM

mg, that request was made hoping that the rest of them would let it go. As in stop posting altogether and stop it going back up to the top. I didn't mean you couldn't talk about it, you're a rational voice here. I'd suggest wait a little then revive the lullaby thread.

SRS

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 May 13 - 07:47 PM

As requested, I will not discuss the issue at hand..but I wanted to say that we made a lullaby cd for the specific purpose of getting to traumatized children...it has already gone to a number of girls who have been abused we well as Hurricane Sandy survivors, refugee children etc. ..it can be copied further and distributed..and can be downloaded, again for this purpose...just pm me. mg

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 13 - 07:25 PM

The last guy is Mudcat's problem - can't blame him on the interwebs.....

But why not leave the Ian and Sylvia stuff for an email to him or a reddit AMA? A lot of people are trying to shut this thread up but it's here for a purpose. It might be a bit of a shock to the usual flow of talk here - but it's definitely more important than your average topic. Ballad lyrics from 400 years ago will still be here tomorrow - but the will and courage to report or investigate a future crime against children may be lost if people are scared away from open discussions like this now.

This is really a pretty important topic for a forum like Mudcat. Regardless of the truth about Brozman (though I trust that is coming out) there is no doubt that the whole historical era of the normalization of pedophilia took place at the height of the 'folk' movement and subsequent years. So it seems pretty certain that more than a few regulars here would have personal experience of this topic either as victims or perpetrators. Please let this thread serve a usual purpose in educating people instead of something circus-like.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 May 13 - 07:22 PM

Internet 101

Back in the early days of the Internet, kiddos, monikers became a way to participate in forums without people being able to read too much personal information into your identity. It was particularly useful for women who didn't want to be intimidated by the predominant male population of many sites.

Every so often someone here at Mudcat tries switching over to their "real name," but usually ends up switching back to the moniker because no one knows who they are if they don't use the moniker. If you, anonymous Guests, weren't just trolling through the site, you'd know that if you have nearly 31,000 posts (me) or 29,000 posts (Spaw) or 7,500 posts (Art), or 24,000 (Kendall) then, as I said before, you don't need a roadmap. If you lot who dropped in for this one knife fight can't tell us apart, that is your problem. We have our own trolls, but at least we know who they are and what to expect from them. Since you object to this site so much, please do what my fellow Mudcatters have suggested, and go back to your own forums.

SRS

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Rick Turner
Date: 13 May 13 - 07:20 PM

Among luthier forums, the most informative are those which require that people post using their real names. Next down the list are those forums where some do and some don't...with the credible tilt going to those folks who don't hide behind false names or cute nicknames. In my experience, the worst flamers and trolls are those who hide their identity behind handles.

How about "Don't say anything you wouldn't want attributed directly to you."   And I'd include moderators in that as well. Stand and be counted or stay silent.

Personally, I think the use of handles is incredibly immature. Yeah, and I got the secret decoder ring in MY box of Wheaties, and you didn't...neener, neener, neener...

The inner sanctum can be a mighty boring place. I've seen "folkier than thou" attitudes ruin scenes for a good 50 years now, and I hope this is not the same old, same old syndrome here...

And, SRS, I'd suggest moderation should be applied with...moderation...and not foul language...particularly in a discussion as loaded as this one is and has been. Your job is to be above the fray, not in the depths of it.

Obviously this whole Brozman thing has polarized a community that has not had this serious a situation arise before quite like this has. It calls out for restraint at the same time that it calls out for the truth to be revealed. Descending into a vituperous pit yields nothing but more poison.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: pdq
Date: 13 May 13 - 07:12 PM

I know that.

It was the Ian and Sylvia question I was interested in.

BTW, Duck Baker also looks like a wise and respectable man, as does Rick Turner.

Gene R.... not so good.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 13 - 07:05 PM

That is the Rick Turner of Alembic, the Wall of Sound, etc, etc. One of a number of well known and well respected people who have testified in this thread.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: pdq
Date: 13 May 13 - 07:01 PM

This is probably the wrong place to ask, but this thread is already dead.

Are you the same Rick Turner who did some acoustic guitar on one of the last Ian and Sylvia records for Vanguard?

I assume you are the favored guitar technician of Jerry Garcia and others.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,Rick Turner
Date: 13 May 13 - 06:50 PM

And handles like "spaw" or "Stilly River Sage" are not anonymous?

They are ridiculous...I'll grant you all that.

Drop the handles and all come out into the open. I'll bet the conversation would be much more civil and informative if those were the rules...

Rick Turner

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 13 - 06:23 PM

This is my first post here. Advocates for children will tell you that fear of reprisals is one of the main reasons victims and adult witness to exploitation do not come forward. This site is providing a very important service by encouraging open conversation among people who may be afraid.

For anyone reading this who is afraid of being tracked or threatened online - here is a primer on protecting your privacy and security while discussing important topics like this: https://securityinabox.org/en

Good work Mudcat!

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 13 - 06:19 PM

Not only is this thread going nowhere but the only focus it now seems to have is against the way Mudcat operates. Why not take your discussion, such as it is, and go back to wherever you normally gather?

Oh, so they won't allow this crap.......is that it? Or have you been tossed from them previously? This thread is out of hand and attacking a moderator at most sites would get you booted immediately. SRS has been more than patient and given plenty of time to get your points across. Nothing new has been posted and the contentiousness and lack of respect is all that is currently happening.

You all are very lucky to have gone this far. I've been here about 15 years and it has been a very long time since this much Guest anonymity has been tolerated. Go back home and bullshit each other and bitch about Mudcat there. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

I'm with Art Brooks. Close it Maggie.


Spaw

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 13 - 04:52 PM

"And thanks to everyone brave enough to go on the record. It DOES matter just to let vulnerable children know someone cares."

^^
this

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: sugarinthegourd
Date: 13 May 13 - 04:49 PM

kendall wrote:
"I've been a mudcat for about 12 years now, and I've seen it go from a great site with many nice people into this quagmire of trolls, nut cases and trouble makers."

I've never been a regular here, but have used it as a reference source for many years and lurked on the forums from time to time. I would agree strongly, this is not the site it once was -- and hasn't been for some time.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: GUEST,grateful visitor
Date: 13 May 13 - 04:41 PM

It does seem that there is an awful lot of acrimony among you all and a lot of interpersonal and other "issues". The open forum is great though and people should be glad there is a good source for information on this sad story. Those of us who aren't around here as often as we might like thank you for encouraging this conversation and hope you guys can work it out despite the obvious drama and politics.

And thanks to everyone brave enough to go on the record. It DOES matter just to let vulnerable children know someone cares.

Subject: RE: Bob Brozman legal issues (NOT obit)
From: kendall
Date: 13 May 13 - 04:24 PM

I've been a mudcat for about 12 years now, and I've seen it go from a great site with many nice people into this quagmire of trolls, nut cases and trouble makers. So many good people have been driven away by the nastiness, it's sad, and I sometimes wonder how much longer I can take it before I pack my ditty bag and go ashore.
Now, if anyone has a nasty comment just remember, it will be MY decision, not yours.