BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 12:09 AM

"modify how they see".   Right. Please cite some examples of this.

Sorry, Kevin, you seem to need a bit more acquaintaince with the real world.

Sometimes people seem to be so "evenhanded" they wind up standing for nothing. As has been said, if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.

More often, we have situations like that described by Kendall, by me--and by Ebbie.

Mouthing meaningless pious platitudes that "nobody wins" a debate does nothing but allow the poster to pat himself on the back.

If I can cut off someone on Mudcat who is sounding off that all political parties are the same, that all evil is due to religion/ capitalism/ or whatever the universal villain du jour is, that is worthwhile. And it has happened. Simplistic answers to complex problems--of which there are an amazing number on Mudcat here in the depths--deserve---and will continue to get--ridicule--from me and others.

If Ebbie managed to make this woman appear ridiculous--and thereby limit the converts to her idiocy--that also was worthwhile.

I know we can't expect saints to understand this--but that is the real world.

OK, time for the next platitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 07:54 PM

Nobody ever wins a debate. That's the real world. One party might succeed in silencing the other, but there's no particular reason to assume that's going to be the one with the better case. And the person who is silenced will virtually always continue to think they were in the right.

That's the difference from a discussion, where people can actual modify how they see an issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 07:41 PM

The wiser you are, the fewer "enemies" you have.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 07:20 PM

Best way to deal with an enemy is to make him look ridiculous.

When I was in high school, a group of us had been down town during lunch. As we were walking back to school, one of the town notables, also a drinker, met us, and he waved his hand toward us and spoke in a loud tone, "Well, look at the future of America".

I simply waved back and said, "While you are at it, take a look at its past". He couldn't get past us quick enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:29 PM

Whatever you say, Kevin.

Ridicule works. And those who don't like it have to come up with facts to counter it. In Ebbie's case it would have worked just fine. And the woman had richly earned it. She had no facts.

As for the pious injunction that we shouldn't be interested in winning debates, welcome to the real world.   Again, Ebbie would likely have been interested in pointing out the idiocy of the woman in question.    Point is: it can be done without getting into a vulgar assault.

It's just a fact:   if the other person loses his or her temper, that's the end of the debate right there.

You don't go looking for trouble, but in Ebbie's case there's no reason she could not do something about the situation. And that seems to have been the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 10:16 PM

Incidentally my loss of temper thankfully was a short one. The whole incident took perhaps three minutes.

I doubt I changed her mind or her audience but in future she may at least look over her shoulder to check who is listening. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:35 PM

"All you have to do is have the facts on your side.    If you do, sarcasm is perfect."

Sarcasm is probably even more useful to those who don't have the facts on their side. In fact it can be a very effective way of bullying an opponent who actually might be in the right.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:05 PM

I'm proud of my big sis, Eb, for losing her temper... Hey, if she had decked this boorish woman I would be a little prouder but still very proud...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 07:49 PM

I just remembered... the only times I ever came close to hitting anyone, and told them so, was years ago when many people smoked and it was not unknown to have someone intentionally blow smoke in my face. They NEVER did it again- I guess my reaction spoke for itself.
   I have not needed to physically 'defend' myself since the bully in the 6th grade decided to win 'status' by pushing me around after school. He grabbed me in front of the two ^{high status} guys, and I twisted around, put his left arm in a serious half-nelson, and pushed his face into the grass. I guess that was a 'loss of temper', but I never said a word.... and he never bothered me again.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 07:06 PM

Getting angry can be done selectively and deliberately as a mode of communication aimed at passive aggressive types. It can serve to make them crawl out of their holes. It is not, in this sense, the same as losing one's temper.

In the sense of just going out of rational socially-acceptable control, it has only happened a couple of times to me--once when someone waved a knife in my face and ended up on the floor, and once when an arrogant supervisor tried to lay undeserved guilt on my poor long-suffering butt for his own confusions. He also ended up on the floor. But that was many a year ago, by a different sort of sea altogether. :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:11 PM

Among people who know my usual low-key demeanor and basically trust me, losing my temper can be a useful thing... it catches their attention and shows that something important is happening. It does NOT happen often.

When among people who don't know me, blowing up in anger will 'usually' be an excuse to ignore or reply in kind, leading to nothing useful. If I feel the need to really tell someone, or express my displeasure with their behavior (or lack of it), a controlled, tedious rant in a cold, focused manner will often get their attention, if not their cooperation.
I had to do this several times last weekend when *sigh*, I had to go to a hospital emergency room and eventually be admitted for 2 days (I'm fine now, thanks) The hospital staff NEEDED to be told a few things, and were sort of obligated to let me go on about several things. IF I had just exploded, they would have probably shifted into "deal with loud, nasty people with standard techniques" mode. I'm sure they get plenty of those.

Like Ebbie, if I just shout my equivalent of "bullshit", I usually end up frustrated and upset at myself.
I am not really sure why some people have shorter fuses and less self-control than others, but I do believe much of it is just habit.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:50 PM

"If you do, you can't possibly win any debate."

The real object of life isn't winning debates. If you think it is, you're caught up in a competitive mental game that goes nowhere. A sufficiently clever and aggressive talker, after all, can seem to "win" many debates and still be wrong, still have a bad character, and still be someone most people would rather not know.

I say this because I've witnessed it in real life...many times.

To paraphrase an amusing old Peanuts cartoon from long ago...Charlie Brown is yelling at someone in the distance whom he's clearly had some difference of opinion with, and they supposedly "won" the debate. He's yelling at this person (Lucy?) who is apparently walking away having "trounced" him in the verbal fray...

Panel 1. Charlie Brown: "You think you're right, but you're not!"

Panel 2. (silent panel as he glares at unseen person who is probably receding in the distance)

Panel 3. Charlie Brown: "You just SOUND right!"

Charlie Brown almost always loses debates to more aggressive and confident and meaner people than himself, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're right and he's wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:21 PM

WADDAYA MEAN DO I EVER LOSE MY TEMPER?!
OF COURSE I do......

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:34 AM

"lesson from an expert".    Where?    Is there one around?    And for this you can step away from your mirror.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:24 AM

It is also useful to be able to recognize yourself in a mirror--even if it's not your mirror.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:01 AM

One must also be capable of recognising irony in others.

Sometimes "sarcasm" can be a double edged weapon....take a lesson from an expert. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:04 AM

All you have to do is have the facts on your side.    If you do, sarcasm is perfect.

You don't, for instance, ascribe all the ills of the world to either capitalism or religion, nor claim that all political parties are the same.

If you do, you can't possibly win any debate.

Ebbie is in a strong position.   Some others are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:15 AM

The biter is often bit Ron....never forget it!   :0o!!

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 11:37 PM

Heh! You are so right, Ron. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Janie
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 11:03 PM

Well said, McGrath.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 07:53 PM

Sarcasm works just fine. It's ridicule--and, as Mudcatters should know, humor can be more devastating than anything else.    And some (LH, perhaps) never forget it. He may have even learned how.    Imitation is.....

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 07:51 PM

There are times to be angry, and probably times to act angry even if maybe you aren't. But there's never a time when losing your temper, meaning you aren't in command of yourself, is a good idea.

The difference is between something you do, and something that happens to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 07:26 PM

Tough questions work better than either sarcasm or anger. It's like holding a mirror up so the person can see a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 06:41 PM

You needed Ron Davies there, Ebbie. He'd have eviscerated the woman with his devastating sarcasm and ridicule, reduced her ego to a bare hollow shell by pointing out her many obvious faults and delusions, then demolished her very sense of human identity, and then blown her clean out of this dimension with a final and utterly damning series of calumnatory personal remarks and astute political observations, backed up by massive factual references complete with annotated footnotes. There'd not even have been enough left of her to spit on. It's called "The Davies Method". Many aspire to it, but few have ever mastered it.

One thing I'd love to have seen is a debate between William F. Buckley Jr and Ron Davies, back when Buckley was in his prime. The sarcasm on both sides would have been enough to paralyze a wolverine.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:25 PM

I seldom lose my temper, but I often exercise it.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 03:00 PM

""I believe it is like the safety valve on a boiler, when you "Go off" it is relieving the pressure which prevents an explosion. If you keep "Stuffing it", sooner or later you will explode. ""

Maybe so, if a person has "alot of built up anger", which I suspect some folks, but certainly not all folks have that type of character?

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:20 PM

I wish.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 11:24 AM

I find that when I've gotten angry over something, I get all wound up. The person I get angry at doesn't seem to be affected, so there's not much point. I try to avoid conflict as others here have stated, but that can be a problem too. When I hear others get in to heated shouting matches, I'm another one that will tune it out and go elsewhere in my head.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 11:07 AM

Good question, andrew e. If the woman had been speaking to *me* I would not have got angry. That kind of conversation has happened to me before, quite often actually. My reaction is bemusement, amusement or amazement. But never anger.

But these particular statements - she said more than just what I reported - were made to three elderly men, and were said as if she had access to some truth that they did not.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:34 AM

Ebbie--

You started great.   All you have to do in a situation like that is keep the sarcasm going.

Supreme Court ruled we cannot assemble.    Be sure to look out for those UN helicopters too---you know, the black ones you always see flying around.    And tell her don't forget to tell everybody al-Queda is responsible for putting fluoride in the water---it was good for the Red Scare, so why not just update? ---(and you know that might well cause sterility). And Obama's going to a conference in Kenya next week so that he can be told what his next step should be in turning the US socialist. Pile on the ridicule til she leaves--or the others she's talking to realize you're slashing her to ribbons.

I agree bad language is not necessary--and sarcasm is actually much more effective (and fun).

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: andrew e
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:28 AM

Just wondering just what it was about this particular statement that would make someone angry?
What if she had said Elvis was still alive and giving concerts every week in Atlantis!
How about Paul McCartney died in the 1960's and was replaced by someone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 07:05 AM

I believe it is like the safety valve on a boiler, when you "Go off" it is relieving the pressure which prevents an explosion. If you keep "Stuffing it", sooner or later you will explode.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 07:25 PM

Rarely have I lost my temper. I always have viewed it as counter productive to dealing with a situation, kinda like spinning one's wheels to get traction.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 06:48 PM

Getting angry pretty well never helps. Even if you were in a life or death struggle it would get in the way of surviving.

Acting angry might in certain circumstances make sense. This isn't one of them.

But losing it isn't a matter of choice. I suppose it's a mixture of our inbuilt nature and the habits we have developed over the years.

The best way to react to stupid stuff like this would probably to lose it another way, and break out in laughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Claire M
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 02:21 PM

Hiya,

Yes, when in pain. The slightest thing used to set me off but since moving & encountering people who fly off the handle at the slightest thing this doesn't happen very often.

From my stays in similar places, I've often thought we aren't allowed to show our full range of emotions. Someone who's not disabled is just having a bad day – if we ever get cross it's this huge problem & a RISK.

The OH has a temper on him – it's literally as if mine has evaporated & gone into him – & he hates being told what to do & sudden noise – when he was struggling with something, the staff member that was with him insisted he could manage it, which she does with a lot of us. "I ….can't ….." he slurred, slamming his fist on his chair. She wouldn't stop going on at him. He exploded, to a soundtrack of further comments about how he'd end up in a padded room. Oh, that's really helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Janie
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 02:19 PM

Well, while it is doubtful anything you may have said would have challenged her to rethink her position, you have the wisdom to understand that leading with a hostile "Bullshit!" pretty much ensures no tiny seeds got planted that might eventually germinate.

It happens to all of us on occasion. When confronted with irrational emotion mind on the part of some one else, our own irrational emotion mind leaps out and grabs the steering wheel. When that happens, we usually are not responding to the immediate situation or circumstance, but rather are reacting to cumulative experience and frustration. Much more likely to occur when we are confronted unexpectedly, which is what sounds like happened with you.

If it happens a lot in this kind of situation, and it bothers you, work at learning what the emotions signal for you, and deal with that. Then you will be more likely to decide how, or even if, to respond from your wise mind. If it is a rare occurrence for you to react so strongly, forget about it. You are only human, after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Midchuck
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 02:16 PM

If Jacqui (and Mizchuck) can keep their tempers, no one else has any right to lose his or hers.

In spite of the above, I sometimes lose mine. But I take pains to avoid letting it become physical. I'm a coward as well as being tempermental.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 01:19 PM

Yes, Janie, that is what bothers me- I would love to be able to speak from a 'cool' place but starting with "BULLSHIT!" kind of ends that possibility.

Incidentally, the woman - probably in her 40s - didn't raise her voice.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 01:12 PM

He said afterwards I give him a couple of "good 'uns"! :D

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 01:11 PM

No, I rarely lose my temper. My mum went through a very heavy binge drinking phase for several years, during that time I had to deal with her aggressive abusive behaviour - as she would totally change when drunk into this abusive raging harpy. I learned to shut out verbal aggression from simply enduring her in her cups. If someone angers me now, I just shut them out completely, I'd rather literally turn my back on someone than engage in a squabble with them.

I must confess however that I think my anger is pretty repressed anyway, ever since my childhood. I hate losing control when it happens. Which is what I think you're getting at. The only time I remember really losing my temper, I punched my father in the head several times - he was pretty good about it and soaked it up though bless him!

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 12:48 PM

"the person cannot help themselves because of their heredity, upbringing, lack of morals and ethics, personal hygiene, odd sexual habits, appetite, and/or mental health condidtions -- and sometimes just plain ignorance, which they will never correct because they wallow in it like a pig in a mudhole."

Stop dissin' me, you flippin' bolthole!!! I will not be in the can forever, eh? My cellmate Ace is lettin' me use his compyuter. I will be back out soon, and I will flipp9n' get bus fair and go out west, find you, and flipp8in' mortalize you!

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 10:23 AM

Everyone is free to ask some else to cite their source. I might tell you to look it up yourself -- I looked it up for other people for better'n 40 years and I'm retired now -- but if I do you can bet yer butt that I've done it and you can too.

In all truth, I do not lose my temper in a physical incident. Not only does that cloud your judgement, it slows your ability to defend yourself. I might "lose my temper" over some piece of stupidity I can do nothing about, in which case I simply recognize that the person cannot help themselves because of their heredity, upbringing, lack of morals and ethics, personal hygiene, odd sexual habits, appetite, and/or mental health condidtions -- and sometimes just plain ignorance, which they will never correct because they wallow in it like a pig in a mudhole.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 09:30 AM

Even though I seem to lose my temper here it's not really losing one's temper... Standing up to bullies and ignorant people isn't losing one's temper... It's standing up...

I rarely lose my temper these days... Before getting into martial arts 30 some years ago I did lose my temper but that kinda taught me that you can defend yourself, your values and your the things and people you care about without losing your temper...

Okay, as in you situation, Eb, it might have looked as if you had lost your temper but if you really had lost it you might have tried to knock this boorish woman on her ignorant ass...

Good on you for not letting her get away with spreading her ignorance...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: Janie
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:20 AM

Ebbie, am I correct in thinking that what is bothering you is the way you confronted the woman, not the fact that you did confront her?

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 07:24 AM

akenaton, you're probably right, so it's just as well I remove myself isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 07:21 AM

Everything is relative. Losing one's temper, to me, is verbally or physically attacking another person. I've lost it once when the clown wouldn't have it any other way. I've never started a fight but I ended that one.
Ebbie, I would have confronted that fool and demanded a credible source.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 07:09 AM

Since a couple of very unfortunate incidents in my teens and twenties I do try to keep my temper well in check.

In a situation such as Ebbie's I think I might have reacted similarly, but always trying to make sure that it was me, not my temper, who was in charge. Mostly I will not react to idiots - I see it as not being worth the trouble - a 'don't wrestle with a pig' situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: number 6
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 06:41 AM

Do I ever lose my temper?

no ... and never have ... well, except for one time and that was many, many, many years ago when I was a young foolish buck and unjustly failed my drivers test the second tieme.

Regarding politiks ... I really don't give a rat's ass anymore ... it will never change ... people are people and as stoopid as they can be at times you just have to let it go.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 05:20 AM

Hardly ever.....and certainly never on an internet forum.
Eliza...if you usually end up in a ding dong slanging match, then your opinions must be as entrenched and fixed as your opponents?

Subject: RE: BS: Do You Ever Lose Your Temper?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 05:07 AM

I'm a bit of a wuss, as I try to avoid confrontations if possible, and usually keep mum and grind my teeth. I also tend to 'remove myself' (ie flounce off the scene without a sound) This is because usually people are so entrenched in their fixed ideas and opinions, you can't budge them and only end up in a ding-dong screaming match which is undignified and unprofitable. The other reason I absent myself is that I've inherited a bit of my mother's fiery Irish temper, and when pushed beyond my limits (and everyone has their limits) I will absolutely explode and terrify the local population. This happens very very rarely, but when it does, tha Army is called in. I did this once in a doctor's surgery. The receptionist was totally ignoring a dear, frail old lady patiently waiting for ages at her desk. She was on her mobile having what was obviously a private (and 'interesting') conversation. I blew, and I mean blew. The old lady was attended to. I left.