BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk

Subject: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: PHJim
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 02:50 PM

I saw this posted by one of my "Facebook friends", whom I also happen to know in "real life".


    SO, another road rage post. A guy in a black pick up truck clipped me and XXXX on the bike today. At a four way stop. Because he wasn't paying attention, I had to swerve into oncoming traffic. CYCLISTS PEOPLE!!! We exist! Accidents are shitty things that happen, to everybody, but PLEASE LOOK before you accelerate. OH, and again, I am reporting this guy too.
       5 people like this.
   
*Commenter #1- and can you believe that no one is allowed to ride their bikes on the side walks !!!!! stupid, it is a lot safer...cant believe they passed a bylaw about riding bikes on sidewalks, they will give out 100 dollar fines 16 years and older and summons to 15 and under.
      
*Original poster- I had a ticket which is why I was riding on the road, I have been hit twice this week and once last. It is INSANE! I refuse to ride on the road now, and I will be VERY VOCAL about this to town hall, FUCK MY BAN!
      
*Commenter #2- that's retarded, how long ago did you get the ticket
      
*Me- It may be safer for the cyclist, but it's not safe for the pedestrians. As pedestrian, I have been hit by a bicycle rider who was riding on the sidewalk as I was coming out of a store in Cobourg. I stepped right into his path.
       I'm not aware of any municipality that DOESN'T have laws against bikes on the sidewalk. I tried to teach my kids to walk their bikes on the sidewalk. Like · 1

*Commenter #2- well I know my kids are NOT going to be riding bikes ,skate boards or roller blades on any street in our town...adults can ride on the roads but not kids, I would rather my kid run into a person then a friggin CAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
*Original poster- I am an adult with a toddler passenger, and until they provide separate bike paths beside the sidewalks AND OFF THE ROAD, I will be riding with my babies on the sidewalk. Two tme this week I have been clipped while following the rules, and the rules of the road. NO MORE. SIDEWALKS ONLY FOR ME from now on. I am infuriated, however the police officer I talked to yesterday told me to ride on the sidewalk... enough said. Like · 1

Commenter #3- I can't count the number of times I've slammed my hand on someone's vehicle so they didn't run me over. It pisses me off to no end. I'm with you Original poster Like · 1
   
***************************************************************
It looks like I'm in the minority on Facebook. How do Mudcatters feel. Obviously I've changed names and town, but everything else is left as is.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 03:52 PM

Some smaller towns around my area prefer that bicycles stay on the sidewalks. A few of these places have provided "bicycle ramps" for them.

Most places, especially the larger towns, require the bicycles to keep OFF the sidewalks, and some places have marked "bicycle lanes" for them that may be some help.

Whether driving, bicycling, or riding on your handicap mobility scooter/chair, you have to take care of your own safety and:

1. watch out for any one who might do something stupid, so you can allow for it well in advance.

2. assume that any one who can do something stupid is going to do it.

It doesn't matter nearly as much where they tell you to ride as it matters how aware YOU ARE while you do it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Janie
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 03:55 PM

Well said, John.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 04:07 PM

I don't object to *vulnerable* or *slow* cyclists on pavements. Slow moving small children, slow moving old folk, slow moving young folk even! So long as they are aware that it's a *pedestrian footway* and pedestrians have right of way.

Parents who allow their kids to terrorise the frail and elderly, disabled or little toddlers, by taring along on the pavement should be stiffly fined. Teenagers and young adults who do the same, should get their bikes impounded.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 04:08 PM

I have no problems with cycling on sidewalks BUT... when you are gonna pass someone walking in the same direction PLEASE slow down and use your bell. And, when you meet an elderly person travelling in either direction, PLEASE have some manners and dismount so you can WALK past them.... please use common sense and good manners.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 04:13 PM

Cross-posted, CS. Pretty much the same deal, especially with small children, the eldery and dogs. It's just common sense and good manners.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 04:16 PM

Sensible and polite cyclists who sit up and look around them and go at a reasonable speed and act like pedetrians are one thing. The problem is those people who put their heads down and race along, normaly wearing stupid shiny cycling gear. Spoil it for everyone else and provide a rationale for banning cyclists from pavements, which is dangerous for everyone.

Dropped handlebars on bikes should be banned. And dedicated cycleways away from the traffic should be introduced as a top priority.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 04:16 PM

BTW, I should add, when anyone sees a catch basin with the grate installed with the grating parallel to the roadway, call and complain that someone without common sense did not put the cover on properly. Such can lead to a lot of sore groins.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 07:15 PM

Sidewalk bikers prohibited in Calgary.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: mg
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 09:13 PM

I think absolutely people should ride bikes on sidewalks. I could go for several years and not see pedestrians in certain areas. They should have to stop the bike and wait for pedestrian to pass. If another bike comes both should stop and walk past each other..but we have sidewalks going absolutely unused while bikers are in danger and put others in danger, especially in winter rain dark weather. You can't do this with huge pedestrian traffic of course, but when sidewalks are barely used, go for it. Especially children.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 09:47 PM

I definitely have mixed reactions on this one. A few days ago someone yanked me out of the way of a kid biking on the sidewalk who would have hit me from behind at racing speed. Yes, dedicated bike lanes, please!

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:28 AM

Bicycles are vehicles, not toys. They are legally required to obey all relevant parts of the Uniform Vehicle Code (in the US), as modified by local ordinances. They have no business on sidewalks, unless it is really a marked multi-use path. Bicycles should be on separate bike trails or lanes. If there aren't any, then they belong on the paved roadway, staying as far to the right as is reasonably practical. That being said - and that being the law most places - cyclists need to be aware that cars are a lot harder than they are and watch out for idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:08 AM

I will use a mixture of road, cycle lane and pavement while cycling. Whichever is safer for me and all others concerned. If cyclists are aware of pedestrians and give them right of way on pavements then I see no issue. If it is safe for them to use the road, then they should use it. If there is a dedicated bike lane then use that, but be aware that some tosser is still going to try and kill you! Basically, horses for courses. If, for instance, you are cycling on a busy road and need to pass parked vehicles I would have no issue passing them on the pavement and then returning to the road when safe.


I am pretty sure that most policemen and traffic control officers will use their discretion and apply the laws sensibly. In my experience the law will be applied if someone is misusing a pavement but not if using it sensibly. But others experiences may be different.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 05:56 AM

There was an interesting TV programme fairly recently on the dangers and problems faced by cyclists in London. Several now attach a video camera to their person while cycling, (which they show to the Police) and record the most awful driving by motorists who should know better. During the prog they were cut up, forced into the kerb, knocked off their bikes on roundabouts and generally risked life and limb daily. But London drivers that were interviewed had their own story; they were sick to death of bikes darting in and out, making safety impossible to maintain. The saddest part was the mother of a dead young woman, killed by a lorry (truck) at a small junction. It had turned left and crushed her to death. The site is now a 'shrine' to her memory. I think the only conclusion one can draw is that bikes and motor vehicles don't mix. There should be dedicated lanes for each. But in London, there ARE cycle lanes in many places. However the vehicles still menace the bikers by entering the tiny 2ft or so wide track.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 06:19 AM

I would be the first to agree that riding a bicycle on the road, in automobile traffic, is terribly dangerous, and that there ought to be bike lanes and the exclusivity of such lanes should be enforced, with rawhide whips if necessary.

That said, why do cyclists seem to feel that they have no responsibility for their own safety?

I probably see 3 or 4 cyclists running red lights for every car or truck that I see doing the same - and there are vastly fewer cyclists on the road than cars.

Most cyclists think nothing of coming up to an intersection on the right shoulder (you islanders who drive on the wrong side reverse this), and proceeding straight ahead, oblivious to the fact that the driver of the car that is next to them, in the right traffic lane, and is turning right and has his turn signal on appropriately, will be looking to the LEFT to watch for traffic, since there isn't supposed to be anything on his right. Then they're upset when the car turns right and they collide.

Motorcyclists tend to be aware that a lot of car drivers won't see them, even in broad daylight - the drivers just aren't programmed to see anything smaller than another car. They should be, but they aren't. Bicyclists should be even more aware of this, since they're even smaller, and travel more slowly than the general flow of traffic. But a lot of them don't seem to be.

Making bicycle riding as safe as it can be made involves educating both automobile drivers and cyclists. But one gets the impression that each group thinks it's all the other group's problem. Even though it's the bicyclists who end up dead.

All IMNSHO, of course.

P.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:25 AM

No bikes should be on pavements, sideWALKS. I have been hit twice by cyclists on pavements..keep them off. If they find roads too dangerous...walk. They are vehicles and should not be in pedestrian areas.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:57 AM

Cyclists should be in the road, not on the sidewalk.    There may be gentle cyclists, as mentioned above, but those who are not should not be given cover, and that's what allowing bikes on the sidewalk does.   There is no reason a pedestrian should have to fear bikes on the sidewalk--and now there is always that potential.


Of course there should be far more and wider bike lanes than there are.

But bikes should obey every traffic law, as other vehicles should. And be fined, etc. if they don't.

I agree with those above who point out the idiocy of many cyclists--even those who consider themselves law-abiding and smart-- who not only don't stop for red lights and stop signs, but don't even have the sense to realize the danger they put themselves in by this classically stupid behavior.    And they even teach their kids not to stop for stop signs.
This verges on criminal.

A car can have a confrontation with a bicycle more than once.   Sadly the opposite is not true.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: PHJim
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 10:41 AM

A little thread drift here. I was confused at first, but after a few posts I caught on. In North America, the word pavement is usually a synonym for the road which is for vehicles and the pedestrians walk on the sidewalk. It seems that in Europe, the word pavement refers to what we call the sidewalk.

It is similar to the use of the word "public" when referring to schools. In North America, a public school is one that is paid for by taxes and open to all, as opposed to a private school, where tuition is paid by the student or his/her family. In England, a public school is the equivalent of the North American private school. Am I right here?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Guest: Rara Avis
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:39 PM

The sidewalk is already too crowded with pedestrians, texters, skateboarders, mums with strollers, folks with shopping carts, joggers, runners, and the list goes on. Where would we fit the cyclists? A year ago in Philadelphia, a pedestrian was killed when hit by a speeding cyclist. The cyclist was never caught.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:50 PM

PHJIm, English-speaking Europeans say 'pavement' for sidewalk, but of course all the other Europeans have their own word in their own language (eg trottoir) It's true that in UK a Public School is a very expensive private school such as Eton or Harrow. But there are many Private Schools too, where the parents pay for their children's education. A Public School is usually much posher than a mere Private school. The free schools for all are called State Schools. A bit confusing!
I don't hold with cyclists whizzing along on the pavement. Apart from it being illegal here in UK, it can cause bad accidents particularly with elderly pedestrians who can so easily break a femur by falling. And I get very angry with cyclists not displaying any lights at night. They don't realise they're almost totally invisible from a driver's point of view. One was killed near our village a few years ago. He had no lights and not even reflectors. The poor motorist was in a terrible state, and it wasn't his fault at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:18 PM

Skate boarders in Calgary may use bike trails and parks dedicated to them, but are prohibited from sidewalks.

Bicycle use of sidewalks is prohibited, and will be subject to fine. They are a danger to all pedestrians.

Under the Vehicle Code here, if there is no bike lane, bikers must take their chances on the roadway. They are prohibited on city freeways if there is no lane provision- cars and trucks are traveling at 60 mph or more, and pedal bikers are easy prey.

Highways have a paved space to the right of the traffic lanes, used for emergency stops by cars, but usually are clear and may be used by bikers.

I believe the ticket for sidewalk biking is $60 here, but I haven't checked.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:31 AM

There is no reason a pedestrian should have to fear bikes on the sidewalk--and now there is always that potential.

If I may paraphrase. There is no reason a cyclist should have to fear cars in the bike lane--and now there is always that potential.

What some of you seem to be saying is that if the roads are too dangerous, which they are in busy towns, then we cannot cycle anywhere. How Draconian is that? Maybe we should also say that if it is too dangerous to cross the road, which it often is, then no-one is allowed to get to the other side. Poor ol' chicken!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:37 AM

Or, an even better idea. The rationale is that, because pedestrians get injured by cyclists on the pavement then bikes should be banned from pavements. Yes? In that case, seeing as cyclists get injured by drivers on the roads, how about we ban motor vehicles off the roads that cyclists use? Simples! I'll leave it to you to decide which are pedestrian, cycle and motor vehicle areas :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Mooh
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 10:35 AM

I posted here yesterday but now my post has vanished.

What's up?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 10:46 AM

Sorry, Dave, you're wrong on this.    Pedestrians have the right to be safe on sidewalks.    That is the top priority for society--and the way it should be.

We all agree there should be more and wider bike lanes in the road. Cyclists need to put pressure on their representatives to make sure this happens.    And the rest of us will back you on this--many of us have been already pushing for it.

But in the meantime, cyclists should stay off the sidewalk--or be fined.

They should also obey traffic laws--like stopping at red lights and stop signs. And many don't.

This doesn't help build sympathy for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:37 AM

OK, Ron , that is your view. I will carry on riding on the pavement where the road is unsafe and where it is safe for me to do so - IE where there are no pedestrians. I also always obey traffic laws, unlike many drivers and pedestrians. If you have any problems with that, please feel free to pop over to semi-rural North Yorkshire, tap a policeman on the shoulder and turn me in :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:44 AM

Glad you obey traffic laws.    Perhaps you can conduct a seminar for your fellow cyclists. Please be sure to have some of your sessions in the US--we need your guidance.

And by the way, I 'd also have all my fellow motorists fined who do not signal when turning or changing lanes. And they are legion. And cause many accidents.

Maybe we could take care of the deficits in both the US and UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:13 PM

I'd love to see the UK figures for collisions between pedestrians and bikes on pavements/sidewalks. I bet it's horrendous!
Here in the UK with have, probably, two generations of cyclist who think "pavement first"!
They might be riding down the quietest road in town but they still ride on the pavement!
And, of course too many pavement cyclist ride far too fast!

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:58 PM

It's probably not as high as the number of pedestrians killed by cars on footpaths!

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:28 PM

We should, Ron, we should. Come the revolution brother...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:09 PM

Too many of these discussions have people reasoning from only one point of view and set of presuppositions.

Here in this area (the same basic area where Ron lives) there are more lanes & paths specifically designated for bicycles, but never enough... and some street/roadways are not easily adapted.
Just as streets, parks, etc. are not all the same, neither are cyclists. Even when there are designated bike paths, some cyclists are not satisfied with what they consider 'restricted' pedaling situations. They are (mostly) young, athletic, serious and impatient. They flatly do not wish to slow down or yield. Contrast these with 'recreational bikers' who just like to pedal gently around in nice weather.. or kids who want to bike in their beighborhood.
In ALL cases, cyclists should obey the local laws, whether they 'approve' or not... just as motor vehicles should know and obey the laws about the rights of cyclists.... and everyone should use care, knowing that some members of the traveling public, whether automobile, motorcycle, bicycle... or pedestrian.... will NOT be careful.

Like others have noted, I have seen bicyclists blow thru red lights & stop signs as if the law didn't apply to them... and I have seen cars bully cyclists who had every right to be where they were. I have been slowed by cyclists, but I'd rather lose a minute than be involved in a nasty incident.

It's a big, complex world... and those who see ANY issue only from their own self-interest and convenience will inevitably have conflicts with others who have a different self-interest. If you obey the laws, you at least have SOME recourse when things go wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:12 PM

All the rules are getting out of hand...I got a dirty look from a lady with a baby stroller in a department store, because I was riding my Harley, up the escalator...I just look at her and said, "There ain't no law against it!"
She said, How did you get it into the store?"
Well there was a law against ridin' on the sidewalk...so I walked it in!"
She smiled, "Well, at least you have respect for the law!"
"Well I used to walk through the store, but I was clipped by a shopping cart by a frantic bargain hunter".
So she bitched and moaned screaming at me.....so I married her!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 04:03 PM

Gee, GfS.. that sounds about like I'd believe from you... :>)

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:51 PM

Like others have noted, I have seen bicyclists blow thru red lights & stop signs as if the law didn't apply to them. It does, of course, and they should be fined...of course, here the police doesn't give anyone tickets for running a stop sign or red light. I, and I'm sure many others, have seen many more automobile drivers roll right through stop signs than cyclists. Here (in Albuquerque, NM) we had a very successful red light camera program but the city was forced, by a popular vote, to remove the cameras because they were seen as unfair to motorists or something.

Close to where I live, we have a "multi-use" trail, which is regularly used by walkers, joggers, parents pushing strollers (four-abreast), skateboarders, dog walkers and, yes, cyclists. When the road was widened last year, a separate bicycle lane was included - not quite 50% of the city council members objected because the "bike path" was there for cyclists to use.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:17 PM

We have a successful red-light and speeding camera program.    So far, despite a lot of whining against it, it's still in effect. We could have a lot more red-light cameras, for instance--and maybe our taxes would go down. I see cars run red lights constantly, and very few intersections seem to have the cameras (more's the pity).

But jurisdictions make a lot of money on sins of motorists (including parking problems).    DC made $80 milion just on parking tickets last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:31 PM

"million"

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 03:50 AM

Round where I live plenty of motorists as well as cyclists seem to treat complying with red lights as an option rather than an obligation. It does piss me off, however, when cyclists assume that traffic laws are for other people and not for them. It seems like a cyclist can behave as stupidly as they want but if they come to grief in an incident involving a car it's always the car drivers fault. Mind you, the smugness and self-righteousness of a lot of cyclists makes a lot of people feel like mowing them down.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 04:08 AM

So the penalty for smugness is death is it? That's the fucking trouble with you motorists, you've got such a fucking sense of entitlement that anyone who gets in your way whether on the road or footpath deserves to die. You sit there in your metal invalid carriages poisoning the air and wasting valuable resources and you think you're God's gift to creation.

Research in Denmark has shown that motorists cost the state 13p for every km driven whereas cyclists SAVE the state 8p for each km. Cyclists have a reason to be smug, they'll live longer and be fitter.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 04:24 AM

I get thoroughly pissed off by cyclists wearing headphones. I get equally pissed off by drivers talking on their mobile phones.

The world's full of dangerous wankers.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 04:57 AM

The world's full of dangerous wankers.

That conjures up some images I really don't want on a Wednesday morning!

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 05:08 AM

On my bike I do what is safest for me.
If I am at a red and the road is clear, I will not wait for the green to unleash the flesh crushing wheels all around me, some turning left across me.
I go while the coast is clear.

A cyclist is much closer to a pedestrian than to a motor vehicle.
No-one gets angry when a pedestrian crosses against a light, or goes against the flow of traffic.
Pedestrians are supposed to go against the flow, and cyclists should for the same reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 08:07 AM

"no one gets angry" .    Endorsing that is as sensible as advocating that people dodge across the street at night, not even close to a walkway, dressed in black. Which I see happen--right in front of me, as a motorist.    And it doesn't exactly delight me. I sure don't want to hit anybody.   But I wonder why the person has a death wish.

Sure, as a pedestrian I sometimes cross the street against the light.   But it's the middle of the day, it's in town, not the country, no cars are coming, I'm not wearing black. And I'm not self-righteous about it.   I know I shouldn't do it and there is always the chance that I could be fined for jaywalking.   Which I totally accept--though obviously I wouldn't be happy about it.

And it really does annoy me that fathers teach their bicyclist children to ignore stop signs.    One who does that is setting up his child for a terrible accident.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 08:27 AM

I sometimes cross the street against the light.   But it's the middle of the day, it's in town, not the country, no cars are coming,

What is the difference between you doing this a cyclist doing it then, Ron?

I do agree about cyclists acting suicidally but that is not what I was talking about. Cyclists who behave sensibly are rarely penalised, whether they are obeying the letter of law or not. Cyclists who act like idiots deserve all they get.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 08:31 AM

A cyclist can certainly do it.    But don't assert a right to do it. And don't complain if you are fined.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 09:05 AM

I have no problem with that at all, Ron. Thanks for the clarification.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 09:58 AM

'A cyclist is much closer to a pedestrian than to a motor vehicle'.

Especially when he's knocking them over on the pavement.

Jim, you're up.....

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: PHJim
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 10:33 AM

Keith said, "A cyclist is much closer to a pedestrian than to a motor vehicle.
No-one gets angry when a pedestrian crosses against a light, or goes against the flow of traffic.
Pedestrians are supposed to go against the flow, and cyclists should for the same reason."

A police officer may not get angry, but if you live in our town, he will give you a ticket for walking against a red if you're caught.
You are right in stating that a pedestrian walking against traffic when there are no sidewalks should walk facing traffic and on the shoulder of the road...Not on the paved portion of the road. (I almost said "pavement") Of course if they are on a sidewalk, this doesn't apply.
Most cyclists who ride on a road with no sidewalk ride on the paved portion of the road and the slightest wobble is very difficult for a car to avoid when the bike is coming at you. Riding on the paved portion of the road facing traffic is very dangerous...suicidal; not so bad if you stay on the gravel shoulder, but that makes riding difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 02:02 PM

"What is the difference between you doing this a cyclist doing it then, Ron? "

There IS a difference. A pedestrian can, if they are looking, stop walking instantly. Pedaling a cycle requires a couple of seconds more.... and a second or two can be crucial.

When *I* am a pedestrian, I give way to cars that seem to be turning in front of me even when I legally have the right-of-way. I don't like it, but I like life more than I need to prove my 'rights'.

In the same way, when I am driving I am careful of cyclists even when THEY are breaking the rules, as I don't want to have to explain in court why I "mowed one down".

Everyone knows there are NO laws for mororists, cyclists or pedestrians that will not be broken or ignored at times, and many jurisdictions use those laws mainly to settle cases where events happen. Jaywalking is just the most obvious example. In a couple of places, they had to install a 6' tall fence to keep pedestrians from taking certain dangerous shortcuts. (I once posted a picture of it.)

It amuses me... sort of... to read smug remarks from those who "know better" than the silly laws their jurisdictions try to inflict on them. I am quite aware of laws *I* consider excessive... but I am a practical man, and can't affored the fines.

artbrooks says they actually got 'speed cameras' removed in his area. Here (Wash DC area) I see interviews with people who mumble some rationalization about 'invasion of privacy' or other ambiguous complaint, when their actual reason is: "I don't WISH to pay attention the variations in the speed limits. I will drive at what *I* consider reasonable!"

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 02:17 PM

OK Bill you have a point but I have been walked into by a stupid person looking the other way - I saw it coming and stood still but they still glared at me. I have been run into by a harassed mother with a trolley. People on mobile phones while walking are completely oblivious to the fact that there are other pedestrians and I have had to dive for cover from an old lady demanding the whole pavement with her mobility scooter. Do we ban all those from pavements as well? It's all well and good having a go at one particular set of road and/or pavement users but there are idiots in all categories. BTW - We don't have 'Jaywalking' in the UK.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 02:26 PM

Just to throw another factor into the discussion, I have an issue with mobility scooters when driven by aggressive folk at speed on the pavements and even in shopping malls. They are heavier than bikes and therefore cause more serious injuries when they knock down a pedestrian. My friend's old and frail mum was sent flying by a Mobility Scooter Maniac, who promptly scooted off. Luckily she didn't break a bone. I suppose the answer is if we ALL try to consider others' needs and safety, whether on foot, bike or in a car. A bit of consideration, kindness, patience and common sense on everyone's part would make things better IMHO.