BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 05:34 AM

Damn! Missed it again :-)

Well done Keith.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 04:58 AM

....but not getting 400!
Ha!

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 04:04 AM

There is indeed, Greg, but I like to spend time doing lots of things. Cycling, playing music and proving people to be liars to name but three ;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 03:55 PM

What are you whinging on about Dave? Is there nothing of substance you could devote your time to?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 03:47 PM

It's embarrassing to be found out in a lie isn't it Greg? :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:49 PM

BTW - You did not answer. Are you a cyclist or were you a cyclist?

It matters not. Piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 02:49 PM

BTW - You did not answer. Are you a cyclist or were you a cyclist?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 02:42 PM

Sorry, Greg, but I'm not going anywhere, Involving anal penetration or not! You really should read the article more carefully BTW. I am sure you would find it is far from irrelevant. Particularly the line -

As Department for Transport research found, bad behaviour by cyclists is interpreted within a 'cyclists are rule-breakers' framework, while bad behaviour by drivers is not seen as reflecting on all drivers.

It is certainly what seems to happen here. Not that I am accusing anyone of any such behaviour of course.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 09:56 AM

Not at all Greg. Highly relevant. Actual research that is very pertinent to the tone of much of this conversation.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 09:20 AM

Irrelevant, Spleen.

Dave, bugger off.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 08:58 AM

"As Department for Transport research found, bad behaviour by cyclists is interpreted within a 'cyclists are rule-breakers' framework, while bad behaviour by drivers is not seen as reflecting on all drivers."

From this article by Rachel Aldred, Dealing with Stigma

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:45 AM

From: Greg F. - PM
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 06:01 PM

... Was a cyclist myself until age had its way with me ....

Then


From: Greg F. - PM
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 07:47 PM

I've nothing against cyclists and in fact am one myself.

Which is it Greg? You are a cyclist or was a cyclist? In euther case I guess the answer to Spleens question that you were trying to answer then is that you just like fighting.

But as I keep saying, I don't think anyone is in disagreement about idiot cyclists. I just haven't come across any on here. In fact, I don't believe I have ever actually seen anyone on Mudcat cycling. Have you?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 08:12 PM

As a one time cyclist it irritates me to see these idiots using the pedestrian area of our streets, or going the wrong way up a one way street. I had some fool who kept ringing his bell so that I would get out of his way when I was pruning my hedge. I pointed out that there was a perfectly good road which he could use and got the usual abuse.
One ran into me once and as a result fell off his bike. He felt that I was in the wrong. I suggested that since he could not ride on the road he should still be using stabilisers.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 07:47 PM

I've nothing against cyclists and in fact am one myself.

I detest assholes.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 06:28 PM

Do you detest cyclists or just like fighting?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 06:15 PM

Everyone, Gnome? - obviously not so.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 04:01 PM

What's a gonzo cyclist? Are you trying to get your own back because you didn't understand knob head? It won't work anyway because no matter how clever you try to be, everyone knows better :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 03:42 PM

That's right, Manitas- the argument favored by six-year olds: But mommy, Johnny did it, why can't I? Thanks for proving my point that gonzo cyclists will never grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 01:39 PM

Why should they have to when the bastard motorists are ignoring the rules in their droves (drives?). They have such a good example to follow.

When will you get it into your special head that it's only SOME cyclists ignoring the rules and they will never be responsible for the amount of pollution, maiming and death caused by motorists.

SOME does not equal all or even most. Clear enough?

When motorists stop raping hitchhikers, ram-raiding stores and killing people on FOOTPATHS then perhaps we can start educating the SMALL number of recreant cyclists. Perhaps by then motorists can be a shining example to them. Perhaps. Don't bet on it though.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 12:31 PM

You know what else'll never happen? The growing population of gonzo cyclists will never act like adults & obey the law & use common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 10:57 AM

It'd be much easier to ban motor vehicles.

I'd go with a variation of that, Manitas. Regular mini-buses to arterial roads. Regular bigger buses to Railway stations. No private motor vehicles rather than no motor vehicles. No air traffic. Sea traffic by sail. But I know that will not happen either!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 10:05 AM

It'd be much easier to ban motor vehicles. Heavy freight can go by rail or water with the final mile or two stewarded. Result: fewer road deaths, fitter population, less pollution, cheaper roads.

Except, we know it ain't gonna happen. But then again we know SOME cyclists are always going to stick two fingers up to the law, good sense and good manners. Just the way SOME motorists do. Just the way SOMe pedestrians do.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 08:04 AM

How about - moter vehicles get the pavemnet - cycles the road and just lock up all the pedestrians!

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 07:34 AM

Which is exactly what responsible cyclists, like myself and many others on here, will do. But why others are getting up in arms about ANY pavement cycling is beyond me.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 04:16 AM

I really like the idea that cyclists should dismount and walk past pedestrians on narrow walkways, as suggested earlier.
FloraG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 03:57 AM

SC argues that bicycle accidents are much fewer than auto accidents, which is true in most places simply because there are many fewer bicycles than autos. Someone must look at statistics for places where "foot powered" transport is more common than other kinds

Sorry, John, but that is just not true. The only valid comparison would be percentages. IE - Percentage of cyclists involved in accidents vs percentage of drivers involved in accidents. I do believe that the former will be much lower but, like you, I will leave the finding of those statistics to someone who may be vaguely interested in continuing this pointless nonsense :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: PHJim
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 01:22 AM

I thought they went by the name "Carlos Danger Dogs" on the internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 08:42 PM

There are, in my opinion, some wiener dogs who would definitely eat a penguin if they had the chance to. Others would merely bark and make little rushes toward and away from the penguin. It really depends on the individual, because wiener dogs are as varied in their personalities as humans are. At any rate, thanks for the thought, John, and do drop in on the penguin thread if you have the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 08:15 PM

Thank you, John, for interjecting some sanity, rationality and common sense into the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 07:56 PM

LH is just trying to advertise the penguin thread.

He's waiting there for someone to answer the burning question of whether a weiner dog will eat a penguin; but the answer is too obvious for anyone to have bothered.

SC argues that bicycle accidents are much fewer than auto accidents, which is true in most places simply because there are many fewer bicycles than autos. Someone must look at statistics for places where "foot powered" transport is more common than other kinds, but I'll leave that to him (or someone else interested). (Reliable statistics are difficult to find due to variations in customs and sparse reporting in some areas with highest bicycle densities.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 10:44 AM

What I would potentially argue about, though, is whether there is any value in joining in with a conversation merely in order to look down on that conversation and throw around the odd put-down...

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 10:41 AM

more fun to argue

Not arguing, LH. Merely commenting and discussing.

So that means we can ignore them, right?

And I said that where, exactly, Greg. I'm talkingabout relative harm here. No need to polarise.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 10:06 AM

I still suspect the numbers are considerably smaller than equivalent incidents involving cars.

So that means we can ignore them, right?

Go, gonzo cyclists!.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 09:44 AM

The controversy rages on? Still? Look, chaps, it's really more fun to argue about penguins, and we have a thread going for that purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 08:59 AM

Fair point, John. I still suspect the numbers are considerably smaller than equivalent incidents involving cars, trucks, buses etc though.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 08:24 AM

It may be the "first conviction," but it's a little difficult to know when to really believe such claims. There have been previous cases where serious charges were filed, but "plea bargained" to something lesser or down to avoiding trial altogether.

It's a little like the question currently being debated: "how many people have been killed on roller coasters?" The answer there is "nobody knows" too.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 05:05 AM

That's awful. However, the fact it was the first ever conviction speaks volumes about the relative lack of danger to pedestrians from cycling compared with, say, cars...

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 12:36 AM

Bicyclist Pleads Guilty to Felony Vehicular Manslaughter

The felony conviction is the nation's first one involving a bicyclist.

By Amanda Hochmuth
Tuesday, Jul 23, 2013

A bicyclist who struck and killed a 71-year-old man in San Francisco has pleaded guilty to felony vehicular manslaughter, according to San Francisco's district attorney.

Chris Bucchere, 37, was riding his bicycle through the intersection on Market and Castro Street on March 29, 2012, when he hit Sutchi Hui and his wife, who were walking across the street.

Hui suffered blunt force trauma injuries and died four days later.

The felony conviction is the nation's first one involving a bicyclist.

"We hope this case continues to serve as a reminder that blatant disregard of the traffic laws can have dire consequences," said San Francisco District Attorney George Gascon.

Bucchere will appear in court again on August 16 to be sentenced.
Under the plea deal, Gascon says he faces 1,000 hours of community service and three years of probation.

A judge can decide in six months if the conviction will be reduced to a misdemeanor.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 03:09 AM

Er, no.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 03:50 PM

Kinda like a CycleJackass with knobs on, ya mean, Dave?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 03:44 PM

The word 'knob' and 'head' seem to spring to mind for some reason...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 12:54 PM

You might say "normal."

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 12:48 PM

No worries, Keith - that ain't gonna happen - demonstrably you're just a common jackass, not special in any way.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 12:44 PM

I also would not like to be your kind of special Greg.
I doubt you have many friends, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 12:21 PM

I wouldn't want to be considered special like you.

    ?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 02:47 AM

I've got a life Greg and I wouldn't want to be considered special like you. I wouldn't want to have to sit around pouring scorn on others. I'm just asking for a bit more of the transport budget to be allocated to cyclists needs - something matching cyclist's contribution would be great.



"Two wheels good, four wheels bad!"

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 07:28 PM

(Not that I'm blaming the driver - it must be a terrible burden to live with, being in any way connected with the tragic death of that poor lad, thousands of miles from his home and family.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 07:26 PM

Me (quoted by Don): ""Typical would be the Chinese student who was crushed to death by a truck that turned left (we drive and cycle on the left here), and the driver didn't see him.""

Don: "Which is precisely why cyclists shouldn't ride up between truck and kerb at the traffic lights.

It is most likely that the driver couldn't (rather than just didn't, which implies negligence) see the cyclist in the majority of such cases."

This is certainly true in Ireland, where trucks are badly designed. In some (most?) European countries passenger-side doors are now transparent, I'm told, and mirrors are convex so that the truck driver can see a cyclist on the offside.

This was how the accident was reported at the time, and this is the ghost bike at the spot where he died.

The consensus in Dublin was that the bridge is dangerous - it's a hump-backed bridge with a bad line of sight, used by many cyclists - and the driver didn't have the right mirror to have a proper view all around.

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 04:09 PM

ARISE YE CYCLISTS OF PRIVATION !!! Manitas.

And then learn to obey the law and get a life. Or do you feel you're somehow special and exempt?

Subject: RE: BS: Bicycles on the sidewalk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 04:05 PM

If you'd bothered to follow some of the links provided above rather than indulging in petty nursery level name calling you'd see we are organising. Two nights ago the London Cycling Campaign organized a protest rally of 2500 cyclists, and the Friday before that a slightly smaller rally. both to protest the death of cyclists and lack of road space. On a national level we've had the Cycle Touring Club which has campaigned for many more years. We also have Sustrans which is more involved in creating off-road routes and promoting sustainable transport modes.