BS: Egypt?

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 07:39 AM

This 12 year old Egyptian boy succinctly dissects the political situation in Egypt: The future president of Egypt

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 11:46 AM

That is one impressive boy. The thing is, he isn't just parrotting politcal jargon. He understands it and is thinking it through.
........................

It's a nightmare situation, and it seems impossibble to identify one side to support and the other to revile. As in Syria for that matter.

The bottom line has to be to recognise that a simple in/out model of politics doesn't work in many divided societies, and some kind of powersharing has to be involved. The alternative is majority tyranny, perhaps alternating with minority tyranny.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 12:18 PM

Mubarak outlawed FGM, and the Moslem Brotherhood wanted to bring it back. That's as good a reason as I can think of, for ousting them.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 12:58 PM

Fair point if true. Is it and do they?

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 01:29 PM

"The Brotherhood and its offspring, the presidency, never considered violence against women to be an important issue, even when they said otherwise. Their support of female genital mutilation (FGM) is just one example. Attempts were made in the short-lived Islamist-dominated parliament to decriminalise it and if it hadn't been for the vocal opposition of women, the legislation might have passed. When Morsi was once asked about his views on the subject, instead of clearly and unambiguously condemning the practice, he said that it was a decision that should be left to the family concerned. Thus the brutal cutting up of a piece of a girl's flesh was treated by him with the same kind of callous indifference as the decision to go for a family picnic."

Amira Nowaira        
guardian.co.uk, Monday 18 March 2013 12.59 GMT

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 01:32 PM

BBC 19th June 2013
When they tell the girl it is a religious practice she believes Islam is against her," she says. "So her perception of religion is changed."

Dr Adly fears there is currently no political will in Egypt to enforce the laws that ban female genital mutilation.

'Common sense'
On the contrary, there have been statements from the ruling Muslim Brotherhood defending the practice.
While, in the past, some clerics in Egypt have stated that female genital mutilation has no religious basis, other clerics continue to openly advocate it.

"'Circumcision' is ordered by Allah, Sharia [Islamic religious law] from Allah. Orders from Allah must be realised," says Sheikh Yussef al-Badri, a cleric who has repeatedly petitioned the country's courts to make female genital mutilation legal again.


Sheikh Yussef al-Badri: "[Circumcision] makes a girl control her common sense about sex"
Sheikh Badri claimed Muslim countries in which the practice did not take place were imitating the West and were not pious, and insisted it was necessary for a harmonious society.

"This makes the girl control her common sense about sex because women quickly feel sex, before men."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22975400

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 07:51 PM

Bobad - I find your evidence interesting.

Keith - the usual Islamaphobic rants with [rant on] NOTHING TO LINK IT TO THE MORSI GIVERNMENT. Badri is an idiot with no insight into reflexology. Wiki on him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_al-Qaradawi.

Connection to the Morsi regime - Oh, hello Keith "he's another brown Muslim and they are all the same aren't they????????

I also find a man who suspects that "women quickly feel sex, before men" has a medical problem!

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 08:58 PM

That vid of the articulate young Egyptian boy bodad posted comes from a site called freearabs.com, which has a lot of other stuff worth looking at, including some interesting songs, and some genuinely funny material.

"A group of free-minded bloggers, journalists, activists and creators, we are dispersed throughout the Middle East, North Africa and the rest of the world. Keen on perpetuating the spirit of the Arab Spring, we confront both oppressive autocrats and religious zealots with audacious reporting, candid whistle-blowing… and ferocious derision!"

http://freearabs.com

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:07 AM

The BBC does not do "Islamophobic rants" Richard.
Did you miss,
"Dr Adly fears there is currently no political will in Egypt to enforce the laws that ban female genital mutilation.
'Common sense'
On the contrary, there have been statements from the ruling Muslim Brotherhood defending the practice."?

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:43 AM

We in UK should not be smug about FGM.
It is illegal here but therehas not been a single conviction.
Over a hundred in France.
Police and Social Services are reluctant to intervene for fear of being called "Islamophobic" by people like Richard.
They share some of the responsibility.

"In England, you are very respectful of your immigrants," she says.

"It is very different in France. They have to integrate and they have to obey our laws."
She walks me over to the Eurostar platform to tell me the story of two little girls who were about to board the train headed for St. Pancras to be mutilated in the UK.
"It was a Friday. We heard just in time. They had tickets for the Saturday.

"A family member tipped us off. We told the police and they were stopped from making the journey."

The parents were cautioned. Had they gone ahead with the mutilations and been found out, they would have been imprisoned for up to 13 years.

"We simply will not tolerate this practice," Isabelle explains.

Does she think many French children have been cut in the UK?

"Yes, because you do not care," she says.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18900803

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: selby
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 03:23 AM

When we where in Egypt earlier this year we saw at first hand the poverty that has gripped this country. In its basic form all human beings only want enough food to feed their family at the moment that is not happening in Egypt. Huge queues for fuel, so how does a Taxi driver/Wagon driver make a living if he is queuing half off the day he looses revenue and eventually he cant afford fuel,goods are not delivered, a downward spiral. Talking to Egyptians the big thing, to me, in their lives was tolerance and respect for everyone coupled with a huge expectation of better times now they had a democracy. It was never going to be easy for anyone to put all the problems right in 12 months unfortunately the elected parliament appears to have lost sight of he main issues and concentrated on some of its own issues. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the politics of what has just happened, the people suffering is the populace trying to make a living. in conversations, I believe a lot of them knew that the first democracy was failing and had to get out of the situation, although we can have no effect it is time for every political party in Egypt to get off their own agendas and bring this country and people into a robust and sensible democracy I for one wish the Egyptians success in sorting out their problems, although sadly at the moment I cannot see this happening
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 09:12 AM

" I for one wish the Egyptians success in sorting out their problems"
I couldn't agree more.
When we were in Egypt years ago the poverty there was blindingly obvious wherever you looked.
Things were even worse when we visited Morocco, where the citizens of Agidir were still living without electricity or water, in makeshift huts built on the rubble of an earthquake that had taken place decades before, .
These countries are desperately poor and this attempt to challenge the failings of the results of the Arab Spring which brought about the first teetering steps towards democracy, have nothing whatever to do with 'being fed up with Islamism'; they present the greatest hope for genuine reforms.   
I have little doubt that if The Bush Baptists offered some sort of genuine solution to poverty, they would get a hearing from the Egyptian people as things stand at present.
It is not "complacency" or indifferent to suggest and hope that changes to the excesses of the religious oppression such as female genital mutilation - or even disestablishment from the church, might follow democratic change, it is simply an understanding of the most pressing issues.
These arguments would ring a little truer if they were directed (by our various arms-supplying Western governments hopefully) towards some of our oil-supplying partners with their beheadings and stonings.
These threads once again appear to have become the stamping-ground of those intent on using them for their favourite preoccupation of Muslim-bashing - the usual suspects again - whose protestations might carry a little more conviction if they hadn't relatively recently suggested that the Morsi Government's word should be taken as sacrosanct over that of the opposition who were (via their "obscure journals") pointing out the real reason that Morsi had closed the smuggling tunnels - any port in a storm - eh what!
Give it a break eh!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 10:43 AM

So using a BBC quote is "Muslim bashing", right Jim?

As I told Richard, the BBC is not known for "Islamophobic rants."
It is known for its objective reporting of the facts.

There are some truths that you people prefer not to see, right Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:45 AM

""Muslim bashing", right Jim?"
No - but homing in on something that is entirely irrelevant to the subject in hand most certainly is and is a common practice with you on thread after thread after thread.......
What on earth has female genital mutilation got to do with what is happening in Egypt at present?
Not forgetting of course that the West has no claim to the high ground as far as the treatment of women are concerned and has its own equivalents to FGM.
There certainly are some truths that some people will run miles from to avoid.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 12:59 PM

I can't see how it's any business of non-Egyptians to line up on either side in this situation, or speculate which side we'd be on if we were Egyptians.

If we were in a situation where there was an orchestrated attempt to get public opinion on the site of the (post-coup) opposition, with a view to helping them achieve power, as has been happening in the case of Syria, then it might indeed be relevant to draw people's attention to some of its more unpleasant aspects, such as attitudes towards FGM. But at this point that isn't happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:24 PM

Jim, this is how FGM came into this thread, so your criticism should be aimed at Richard and certainly not me!

From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 12:18 PM

Mubarak outlawed FGM, and the Moslem Brotherhood wanted to bring it back. That's as good a reason as I can think of, for ousting them.

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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Richard Bridge - PM
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 12:58 PM

Fair point if true. Is it and do they?

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:27 PM

the West has no claim to the high ground as far as the treatment of women are concerned and has its own equivalents to FGM.
There certainly are some truths that some people will run miles from to avoid.
But certainly not me Jim.
I just highlighted the appalling record of UK in FGM.
We turn a blind eye.
Like the Brotherhood, we allow families to choose.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 02:12 PM

This is enlightening about what the US has been up to in Egypt recently.

covert American funding of Morsi's opponents

Blatantly illegal under both US and Egyptian law, not that that would ever be a consideration for a recent US president.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 03:16 PM

"We turn a blind eye."
Nobody turns a blind eye - the scabloid press is always bringing it up, as are the BNP and people like yourself.
You have accused people who have not responded tyo your call to arms as "complacent" - they aren't; it has no place in this discussion other than as yet another opportunity by people like you to present Muslims as sub-human (except those who have managed to resist their "cultural implants - they are merely untrustworthy near children!)
Other than obeying national laws, Muslims are the only ones fitted to deal with religious excesses and influences, interference leads to entrenchment and resentment. I suggest you direct tour attention nearer home when it comes to the treatment of women.
Usually you are the first to squeal "thread drift" when you get out of your depth, until, like here, it suits your single-handed crusade; then you make the Marie Celeste look like the Cutty Sark.
FGM has nothing whatever to do with the Egyptian situation.
Couldn't help but notice you managed to sidestep your previous support for the Morsi mob - what do you reckon - send him some riot control gear as you suggested with Assad?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 05:40 PM

FGM has nothing whatever to do with the Egyptian situation.
Maybe not Jim, but I was responding directly to Richard's query about FGM in Egypt.
Direct your bile at him.

I only quoted the BBC, who are neither the "scabloid press" nor the "BNP."

Why must you always make these things personal?

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 05:58 PM

Usual Islamophobic crap from Keith.

NOTHING he says shows the Morsi government accommodating FGM.

OTOH, I have been involved in collecting evidence of it in the UK and reporting it to the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 06:12 PM

Nobody turns a blind eye
Then why no single conviction here, and why are little girls brought here to be mutilated?

Usual Islamophobic crap from Keith.
It is from BBC, not me.
They are known for their objectivity, not for Islamophobic crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 06:23 PM

NOTHING he says shows the Morsi government accommodating FGM.
Not true Richard.
The BBC extract had this statement,"On the contrary, there have been statements from the ruling Muslim Brotherhood defending the practice."

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 07:20 PM

When it comes to Female Genital Mutilation the focus, for people in the UK, ought to be on the failure of society to respond to it in an effective way. In the last two years, according to the NSPCC, approximately 1,700 victime have been treated for it. Three days ago the Crown Prosecution Service finally got around to launching the first prosecutions.
Prosecutions as such aren't the be-all and end-all, the important thing for a change to a culture of acceptance of the practice where it exists, with the main ability to achieve that lying with the many people within the relevant communities who are wholly opposed to it. But without prosecutions their power to achieve that is greatly weakened.

So far as Egypt goes this issue is one aspect of a wider question, which is how can democratic principles cope with the situation where a majority support a government with fundamentally repressive policies towards a section of society. Nazi Germany was the classic example, but there have been many more. Ruanda was another extreme case. Stormont for generations was another, and so arguably is Israel.

The fact that Egypt is predominantly Muslem is in a sense peripheral to this question, and should not be the sole focus of attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 07:22 PM

Jim, you said relatively recently (Keith)suggested that the Morsi Government's word should be taken as sacrosanct over that of the opposition who were (via their "obscure journals") pointing out the real reason that Morsi had closed the smuggling tunnels - any port in a storm - eh what!

The reason I gave was also given by BBC, 2 days ago.
"In addition, the Egyptian military's growing concerns about security at home - especially in the Sinai - mean that some smuggling tunnels into Gaza have been flooded. The Egyptian army wants to stop the flow of weapons and fighters from the Gaza Strip back into Egypt."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23228297

So, I was right and you were wrong again Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 09:42 PM

Come on Keith - what statements? By whom? When? In what words? And of course - did they come from MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT?

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 02:58 AM

Come on Richard, the meaning is clear.

ruling Muslim Brotherhood
That means the government.

statements from the ruling Muslim Brotherhood defending the practice
That means that they defend the practice of FGM.

That was EXACTLY the information that YOU requested.
It is not my fault that you do not like the answer as supplied by BBC.

You can not dispute it, so you label it instead.
Falsely labelling unpalatable facts as "Islamophobic" does not change the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 03:57 AM

Maybe not Jim, but I was responding directly to Richard's query about FGM in Egypt.
Direct your bile at him."
It took you to continue to make it an issue, just as you made your hatred of Muslims an issue when the subject was the murder of a soldier - which you turned into a racist/bigoted soapbox.
Anybody is entitled to bring any issue they wish into a thread, no matter how peripheral - you manipulate threads into personal hate soapboxes (when you are not squealing "thread-drift") You are noted on this forum for doing so.
"The reason I gave was also given by BBC, 2 days ago."
No it was not - the Guardian statement refers to the situation pertaining AT THE PRESENT TIME in Egypt and the risk of Palestinian arms getting into the hands of the current combatants - which has nothing to do with the flooding of the tunnels in the past.
Your unequivocal support for the Morsi government and your dismissal of the opposition's reasons was for then - not now - read your own links.
Right my arseum (unless you are referring to your goose-stepping political stance of course!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 04:14 AM

So Jim, it was OK for Richard to request information about FGM in Egypt, but not for me to offer it, because the facts do not fit your prejudice!

Do you not see how stupid that makes you look?

The tunnels have not been RE-flooded.
The BBC was stating why they WERE flooded, and that contradicts what you produced from your obscure magazine, and confirms what I said.
Not surprising because that is the reason the Morsi government itself gave for its own actions.

Once again you have to deny an obvious truth because it does not fit your prejudice.

Once again you show yourself to be a prejudiced, dogma driven dork.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 05:05 AM

Keith - that is about as clever as saying "the ruling conservative party" - which could mean some blue-rinsed lunatic from Cheshire, or could mean Scamermoron himself.

WHO? WHAT WORDS? WHEN?

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 05:17 AM

If the BBC on its global news site spoke of statements from "the ruling Conservative Party" no-one would take that to mean obscure local associations.
The meaning is clear.
You just do not like it.

The article did not go into detail, but it told us all we need to know.
The government supports FGM.
That FACT is confirmed by Bobad's link and quote.

Sorry again that the facts do not fit your prejudice.
Maybe you should open your mind a little.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 05:22 AM

You can't can you - because the BBC report (go back and read it again - the actual writing skills are appalling) appears to say that the BBC says that Dr Adly says that "there have been statements from the ruling Muslim Brotherhood defending the practice".

I can't find any. Now I would happily visit extreme ills upon any person imposing FGM on any woman - but that report does not demonstrate that the Morsi regime was supporting FGM.

On the contrary although some members of the governing assembly are reported to have tried to repeal the legal prohibition of FGM in Egypt, their attempts failed.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 05:58 AM

A BBC journalist, Aleem Maqbool, with all his contacts and the resources that are available to someone in his position, tells us that the government has made supporting statements.

But, because Richard can not find them by Googling, we are expected to reject the local expert!

You are in denial Richard, no pun intended.

In any case you have the confirmation of the Guardian piece provided by Bobad.
You lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 06:23 AM

In case anyone was thick enough to believe that the Muslim Brotherhood was the only Muslim political force in Egypt:

the al-Nour Salafists siding with the Egyptian army and the USA

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:28 AM

The Army have been the de facto rulers and power brokers in Egypt since 1952. Whoever has their support rules Egypt.

Since Morsi was elected President, the Muslim Brotherhood have been attempting to force through their own party's agenda and whilst concentrating on that the country has basically been left to go to hell in high gear - that is what the current "opposition movement" and the Egyptian people are complaining about.

Events reached the point where the Army drew a line and issued their ultimatum. When that ultimatum was ignored they acted in the only way they saw fit in order to prevent a downward spiral into chaos and civil war, they have imposed an interim Government focused on two facets of governance - the introduction of stability with the promise of elections early next year, by which time political parties hoping to take part will have devised their proposals for governing Egypt whilst avoiding the mistakes made by Morsi & Co.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:45 PM

While it is clear that there is support for decriminalising GM within the Muslim Brotherhood, it also appears that so far it has not been official policy. Moreover it is wrong to present this as the decisive dividing line between the Muslim Brotherhood and other parties, or between Muslims and others.

Female Genital Mutilation has for a very long time been the expected and required practice in Egypt - according to some reports as high as 97%. This predates the coming of Islam, and is prevalent among Christian Egyptians as well. And it does not appear to be the practice or religious or social expectations in that most exclusively Muslim nation, Saudi Arabia.

None of that means it isn't a barbaric practice, even more so than male infant circumcision, but it means that the issue shouldn't dominate discussions as to whether the overthrow of the Morsi government was on balance a good or bad thing. If that has anything much to do with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:15 PM

Agreed.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 02:38 AM

I agree with everything in McG's last post.
FGM is a serious issue, but not in the current crisis.
It was a throwaway remark by an anon. Guest, and I am sure Richard regrets taking it up.

Jim likely regrets dredging up the Gaza tunnels even more!
Chumps.

Today is an ominous day for Egypt.
Rival demonstrations in the Square.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 03:16 AM

For once I do not much disagree with Teribus. As usual I largely agree with McGrath of Harlow.

Keith, you cannot ride two horses in opposite directions at the same time.

Opposition to FGM would be a good reason to oppose the Morsi regime, but we have only one remark by one reporter whose source is a known opponent (hooray) of FGM to link the Morsi regime (and that by a sidewind in that the report refers to the Muslim Brotherhood, not the regime itself) to FGM.

Remember I started this thread to try to find out what was driving the people's opposition to the Morsi regime - and the answer appears still to be more than somewhat unspecific, although there are credible-ish suggestions that it's about the economy stupid - which is ironic in that in the present global financial crisis a failing ecnomy might not be wholly Morsi's fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 03:29 AM

Bobad's Guardian piece linked Morsi himself to FGM support.

Apart from the economy the rebels are objecting to the Islamisation for which there was little mandate, especially the new constitution.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: selby
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 03:33 AM

Quote This started thread to try to find out what was driving the people's opposition to the Morsi regime.

There have been some posts on this thread to try to say what is happening but the thread became a battle ground for FGM it was never the original issue.

At this present moment in time the Egyptian people are looking at a stark future, no matter what party they back. Tourism is a BIG employer those who work within the industry and those who work on the peripherals are all going to suffer. Stability for the country needs to return by October to get tourists back, although Sharm remains calm the Muslim Brotherhood was keen to shut some of the operation down particularly the casinos.
No matter who leads nothing is going to put right what has happened and only strong fair leadership will prevail
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 07:24 AM

Keith - Bobad's quote gave SOME indication of who said what - even if not when. Yours didn't.

Selby - there is no disagreement about FGM. We all agree it is disgusting and oppressive. We all agree that if Morsi gives any comfort to it he is disgusting. What there is little evidence of is that the Morsi regime supports it.

I have yet to see any evidence that the street protests were about Islamisation. I would like to see it if it exists. I would however hope that posters might correctly distinguish between Islamic and Islamist.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 08:04 AM

There do seem to be a lot of indications that a major ground for popular opposition to Morsi centred round the Islamisation agenda being prioritised by him. For example, in many of the banners waved in those demos - though admittedly I can only read the ones in English.

Again, in that clip from freearabs.com of that incredibly articulate 12 year old bodad linked to, he describes the Morsi government as a "fascist theocracy".

Of course none of that means that the people against Morsi were opposed to Islam, as evidenced by the involvement of some specifically Muslim religious groups which oppose the Muslim Brotherhood.

And it is also clear that as well as massive popular opposition to the deposed regime their is also massive support for it, quite possibly more massive. The dilemma of how a society can cope with the presence of an oppressive majority is one that is not easily solved.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 08:12 AM

The new rulers of Egypt are punishing the Palestinians for their support of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood:

"Egypt is allowed to strangle the entire Gaza Strip and deny its people food and fuel, especially on the eve of the holy fasting month of Ramadan, but one hardly hears about these anti-Palestinian measures: they are being carried out by an Arab country, not by Israel."

Egypt Punishes the Palestinians

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: selby
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 09:37 AM

Faith in the future is a big issue for Egyptians, a lot of them believe that the world is cyclitic and that old empires and nations are progressing to the top of the cycle again. The "Arab Spring" for them was the opportunity/beginning for Egypt to start that rise themselves they have seen both India and China rising. The optimism was dashed by the new governments failure to move forward (it is arguable if any new government could/would have). Religion became an issue due to the elected governments mandate to Islamise Egypt,bearing in mind that coupled with this other parties refused to work with the muslim brotherhood. When the new elections are held and a new government is elected as it stands at the moment there will still be parties refusing to work with each other unless someone can get them ALL sat down together this disaster will rumble on and I feel Egypt will be infiltrated by the people even the egyptians do not want
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 11:44 AM

Richard.
We all agree that if Morsi gives any comfort to it he is disgusting. What there is little evidence of is that the Morsi regime supports it.
Give it up Richard.
You were wrong.
"there have been statements from the ruling Muslim Brotherhood defending the practice."
"Attempts were made in the short-lived Islamist-dominated parliament to decriminalise"
Clear enough?
"When Morsi was once asked about his views on the subject, instead of clearly and unambiguously condemning the practice, he said that it was a decision that should be left to the family concerned."
Not "little evidence" Richard.
Conclusive proof.
You were wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 02:12 PM

FGM is a serious issue, but not in the current crisis.

I'am sure Keith agrees with what he wrote there.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 02:59 PM

I meant it is not an issue in this political crisis, however appalling it is in human terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 11:04 AM

Precisely. Let's talk about what this political crisis can teach us.

Subject: RE: BS: Egypt?
From: bobad
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 11:44 AM

This analyst suggests that what we are seeing in Egypt may be signalling a backlash against the Islamist power grabs of the Arab Spring.

Nahlah Ayed: Can Egypt put the Islamist genie back in the bottle?