BS: RENFE Spanish Train Accident-Jul 2013

Subject: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: Jim Martin
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 09:06 AM

One of the news reports said the signalling system had not been completed- sounds like false economy!

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/spain-s-high-speed-train-disaster-on-the-scene-QbZFjUXkQEO13dVeMINL~Q.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-26/spanish-probe-into-rail-crash-focuses-on-speed.html

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 10:51 AM

Train was reportedly going too fast and the driver has been detained by the police. Not much a signalling system can do about a train being driven too fast if that's the case.

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 11:51 AM

Horrific. Can you imagine how passengers were feeling - many of them must have noted that the train had not slowed and been utterly helpless to do anything about it.

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 02:21 PM

A terrible and horrifying tragedy. I heard last night that in addition to the dead, there are more than 160 in hospital, many gravely injured. It's too early to speculate on the cause. I watched the video, and the train was obviously going too fast, but we don't know why. Dreadful carnage. I admire and feel for the rescue teams. They must be traumatised by what they saw and had to deal with.

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 01:50 PM

The way things are going in here, I'm surprised no one has come on and blamed it on a KKK/Tea Party conspiracy!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: Jim Martin
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 07:48 AM

If anyone ever needed strong trade union legal representation, then I'd say the train driver does, because as far as I can see, there seems to be a lot of questions which need answering concerning the efficacy of the signalling system!

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:52 PM

He seemed quite badly injured himself, covered in blood with facial wounds and certainly in shock. I wonder if it's too soon to chuck him out of hospital and say he's fit to answer questions. He surely can't be in a suitable state for that. And they've got the 'black box' which will probably give much objective data. It could be the brakes failed, signals failed, any technical thing and not necessarily 'driver error'. I realise people are grieving and traumatised and may want a scapegoat, but it should all be done above board and sensibly, for everyone's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 02:41 PM

The scope for driver override of onboard computer systems on those trains is very low indeed. It is therefore impossible to speculate what could have caused the train to have not slowed down automatically well before that sharp bend.

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 02:52 PM

While I agree about the impossibility of speculation as to what may have happened, press reports are clear the safety system that would have stopped or slowed the train was not installed on the tracks for the final five kilometers before Santiago de Compostella station. The location of the accident was within that final stretch.

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 02:55 PM

Also, the chap had been driving those trains for years and had made that journey many times. I do think it's very unfair for the Spanish to condemn him out of hand before any scientific facts are known. He apparently expressed a wish to commit suicide in the aftermath, poor soul. I accept that the relatives of the dead are, understandably perhaps, baying for blood and revenge. Hard though it is, they must be patient and await firm evidence, and it might take months.

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 05:25 AM

HSTs are mostly computer-driven because you're past any incident before you see it, let alone react: at those speeds reaction times translate as quarter miles, and an emergency stop upwards of a mile. Few of us can see clearly that far, so sensors are essential and the drivers rely on nothing but.
The signalling was at two levels, HS-compatible and normal operation-compatible: the lower speeds were supposed to reflect that. However, the train's systems had only just been updated that morning and a close examination of the trackside film shows the front of the train started slowing before the rear, with the result that the rear power unit pushed the coaches in front of it and off the track, while the front unit remained on it at first. One can only surmise the system at the front and back were on different settings.
Sadly enough, the curve was only there to avoid trains running through the regional hospital!

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 07:54 AM

Train expert interview

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 03:04 PM

I know zilch about high-speed train systems, but when a moving line (of anything) goes at speed round a bend, the centrifugal force makes the final sections pull outwards and the thing 'lashes its tail', ie the end leaves the bend. From watching the video, this seems to have happened. The driver needs support and counselling ( and IMO further medical treatment for delayed shock and post-traumatic stress) I see there's been another train accident, in Switzerland this time.

Subject: RE: BS: RENFE Spanish High Speed Train Accident
From: Jim Martin
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 09:42 PM

Quite revealing TV documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g0xyPkzv4A

The 1st vehicle to derail was the 2nd, a diesel power car (it was a hybrid) & being heavier than other vehicles & with a higher centre of gravity. Looks like the next one to derail was the other diesel power car, the penultimate vehicle towards the rear of the train.

It could be that there are serious implications for other high speed railways where the signalling systems are not all that they maybe should be! There also seem to be serious questions to be asked about drivers being distracted by telephone calls!