Miley Cyrus

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 06:19 PM

CS....Sorry to hear that sad story.

I agree with every word of your post...well said.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 04:48 PM

Really kind of pathetic. No kidding.

Like I said way back. Just another bimbo - who gives a shit?

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 04:09 PM

It's fine that Cyrus wanted attention, it's part of the fame machine that she's been a piece of since she was herself a child. The thing that pissed me off about this whole affair was the explicit and targeted exploitation of children, who as we - and Cyrus' machine know -form her core of Disney fans.

In case anyone's interested, one of the major techniques that paedophiles utilise in the sexual grooming of underage children, is subverting and exploiting key expressions of childhood. By which I mean the sexualising of teddy bears. daddy figures, and other usually 'safe' favourite childhood memes (I was once raped by a man wearing a father christmas suit, which may make some of you laugh).

When adults explore fetish / paedo-ish themes involving childhood toys and old men/women in their sex play, of course that's fine, just so long it's with an informed *adult audience*. To knowingly fuck about with such stuff with a *child audience*, is exploitative and pervy.

Someone said above that they assumed that children should know the difference between fact and fantasy. It's nice that they have such confidence in their progeny, because in fact a lot of children aren't able to make such a clear distinction; particularly of course when led by a 'trusted' adult. It's such innocent assumptions by caregivers that represent one of the prime causes of otherwise cared for children ending up being sexually abused.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 03:31 PM

Just a bit over the top.

Hell, Madonna was a nun compared to this chick!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 03:09 PM

Miley says that all she wanted to do was "make history."

What's more, "You're thinking about it more than I thought about it when I did it. Like, I didn't even think about it, 'cause that's just me. ... I don't pay attention to the negative."

Really kind of pathetic. No kidding.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/miley-cyrus-breaks-post-vma-silence-insists-detractors-132834225.html

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 02:56 PM

You have very good taste in music Little Hawk :-)

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 04:53 AM

What's a Miley Cyrus?

It's a bit like a Billy Ray Cyrus bit not as achy-breaky.

:D tG

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 11:06 PM

Google?

Yeah, the last name of an old comic strip character. His first name was "Barney." He had a hillbilly friend named "Snuffy Smith," and there was also a horse in the comic strip named "Sparkplug."

Yeah, I know all about Google.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:37 PM

Is it really necessary to point out that Ms. Cyrus will prabably make more money this month than Ms. Carpenter will in her lifetime? It's not about art. Or quality. Or morality. Or taste.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:32 PM

Know what a Google is?

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:29 PM

What's a Miley Cyrus?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 05:56 PM

Well, if she isn't being controlled, she is ignorant, or stupid, or both.
She has been, I believe, a role model for little girls everywhere, has she had even a thought for those impressionable little girls without whom, she would be just another wannabe actress.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 05:41 PM

Little Hawk, it's not about me thinking you don't respect women. It's me thinking you're interpreting this strangely and so upset that you try to divert discussion by posting lyrics by songwriter you respect.

I think she knows what she's doing. You don't. I don't believe it's the best course of action or even a good one, but it IS her decision. To think it isn't and to say she's being controlled implies she's ignorant, or stupid.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 03:29 PM

What's the difference between rape and sex? Rape is crude, unexpected, usually occurs in the wrong setting and happens without my permission.

If I am watching an awards show on TV, perhaps with my children, and Miley Cyrus suddenly comes on and starts doing pornography, that's a lot like rape. It is crude, unexpected, is happening in the wrong setting (my living room, not a strip joint) and happens without my permission.

TV viewers may be kind of stupid, but we're not THAT stupid.

I think we're going to find that Miley Cyrus has done her career a lot of harm.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 01:47 PM

I have no particular reason to think she's a moron. For all I know, she may be a very intelligent girl. That would not necessarily protect her from what happens to a great many young women in the "entertainment" business when hundreds of millions of dollars are involved.

I think, Jeri, that you're just intent for some reason on finding and continuing to find something...anything to oppose in what we're saying here, looking for the worst way to interpret it, and you're misreading it due to your own fervent desire to have some reason to continue to disagree.

Consider the stunning possibility that we too respect women, young women, freedom, and truth just as much as you do, and we are also grownups...like you...and you might not have to construe the various things we say from such a negative angle.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 11:49 AM

Man, you guys obviously think this young woman is a complete moron. That's probably a little meaner than not liking her act.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 11:32 AM

Now here's another magnificent song by Mary Chapin Carpenter:

Between Here and Gone

This song, a reflection on the mysteries, joys, and sorrows of life, death, and mortality, was written by MCC upon hearing of the death of singer-songwriter Dave Carter.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:56 AM

Yes, Suzy, I think that Miley Cyrus, like many other young women in show business, is probably being victimized and controlled by her money-hungry handlers...who are undoubtedly a bunch of rich men in suits, busily perpetuating the worst aspects of the old virgin/whore stereotypes and fears that have been unfortunately bequeathed to this civilization by the most negative, deranged aspects of its ancient Christian religious traditions.

And I do have compassion for her, just as you say.

(I see both good and bad in Christianity, by the way...much of both. But I'm referring to the bad part in my remarks above. Many battles were fought in the early centuries of the Church between liberal forces and conservative forces, literalists and non-literalist, patriarchal forces and gender-inclusive forces. The most regressive conservative/patriarchal/sin&guilt-focused forces unfortunately won most of those battles up until quite recently, and it is due to their victories that women have been so oppressed and exploited in most of the last 2,000 years of "Christian" civilization.)

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:31 AM

Brilliant video on Facebook, Mr. Happy!

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 09:29 AM

Miley Cyrus deserves compassion. Look her up as Hannah Montana. She has the wrong handlers.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 04:50 AM

This just appeared on Faecesbook, all becomes clearer now

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 04:43 AM

Thisjust appeared on Faecesbook, all becomes clearer now

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Sep 13 - 07:24 PM

I love this thread .....real sensible people who say it like it bloody well is!! (Suzy)

Good folk who enjoy meaningful thought provoking songwriters and care about the actual music rather than the hype(Little Hawk).

Richard you are slightly weird, the sexualising of our children does not empower them, it enslaves them.
Childhood is an important part of human life
The media dictates that our kids ape and worship the exhibitionists who would destroy what should be a time of "gentle learning"

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 13 - 02:57 PM

Yes - His daughter.

D.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Sep 13 - 12:37 PM

Never heard of Miley, any relation to B.R. Cyrus?

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 03:41 PM

Here, for instance, is something I like:

Mary Chapin Carpenter - Why Walk When You Can Fly?

In this world there's a whole lot of trouble baby
In this world there's a whole lot of pain
In this world there's a whole lot of trouble but
A whole lot of ground to gain
Why take when you could be giving
Why watch as the world goes by
It's a hard enough life to be living
Why walk when you can fly

In this world there's a whole lot of sorrow
In this world there's a whole lot of shame
In this world there's a whole lot of sorrow
And a whole lot of ground to gain
When you spend you whole life wishing
Wanting and wondering why
It's a long enough life to be living
Why walk when you can fly

And in this world there's a whole lot of golden
In this world there's a whole lot of plain
In this world you've a soul for a compass
And a heart for a pair of wings
There's a star on the far horizon
Rising bright in an azure sky
For the rest of the time that you're given
Why walk when you can fly

She does an absolutely beautiful performance of an absolutely beautiful song, with dignity, class, intelligence, and idealism of the highest sort. She did it all despite looking like a plain, ordinary girl, and just writing and singing great original songs instead of whoring herself as a corporate marketed sex product.

How often does mainstream media show you something like that at the top of the Youtube page, and how often do they bother to play it on the radio? It succeeds anyway...strictly on its own merit.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 03:05 PM

No, I'd generally rather talk about stuff I really like, Jeri. That's why I posted the Joni Mitchell video.

You say we "got used to" Madonna and Michael Jackson grabbing their crotches? Well, I don't deny their great talent....or their hard work...but I was basically never much interested in the style or content of the music either one of them did, so I didn't particularly have to get used to the crotch-grabbing or whatever else they did along with it. I simply didn't care.

At the time I was really enjoying Bruce Springsteen, Jackson Browne, Bob Dylan, Mary Chapin Carpenter, and Dire Straits, along with numerous other artists who were recording in the 80s...and that's what I focused on.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 02:58 PM

So nobody wants to talk about Miley Cyrus anymore

Jeri, did you ever think that anyone really did? The thread was started about peoples attitude to the display that Ms Cyrus put on. Not the girl herself.

And how on earth can you have a go at people for taking 'a dig at someone' by having a dig at them??? Not sure about the different day but that is certainly the same hypocritical shit.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 02:03 PM

So nobody wants to talk about Miley Cyrus anymore, or is it just that there's never an opportunity to take a dig at someone that you can't pass up? Oh well, never mind --SSDD.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 12:49 PM

has a tendency to undermine her own excellent arguments by slightly hyperbolical overstatement and an occasionally over-emphatic tone

And have you not spotted that the same hyperbole and over-emphasis is often used in any arguments against, Michael? Such as 'wrapping in cotton wool' maybe? :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 12:31 PM

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 01:11 PM

>>>"Lizzie, you are an idiot. Two of the highest selling US songs of the year and you say "non-talent"? Jealously and fear are your problems."<<<

Oh, Richard, you DO make me giggle! I've never heard these songs, don't listen to the Crap spewed out by the Corporate Sociopathic Music Bastards...


"As for children - STAY AWAY. You and your kind have done almost as much to damage the minds of children, both in your hostility to learning and in your hostility to the sexuality which WILL make them happy as the Spanish Inquisition."<<<


I don't want my children to be 'happy as the Spanish Inquisition' Richard...I'd rather they fought against Sociopathic Nutcases...

(sorry, couldn't resist THAT one!)


I don't want children being sexualized from the moment of birth, Richard...I'd rather they had something called CHILDHOOD, where perverted minds like Miley's can't reach them, but Twinkle Twinkle Little Star can...

Miley is as Miley does....and truly if simulated Masturbation and Anal/From Behind Sex is ALL that she can think of to sell her..erm...music..or give her erm...fame, well I think it's time the Human Race bowed out gracefully really....

And please, with your next comment, please, don't go breaking my achey breaky heart, Richard..

Dead on Lizzie. I'm glad Miley Cyrus' mother came out and said basically, "My girl does not have to resort to this- and she shouldn't."

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 12:12 PM

I have to remember when Elvis was going to be on the Ed Sullivan show. I was aware there were people offended, but I didn't understand why. I asked my mom about it, and she told me it was because he gyrated his hips when he danced and some folks thought that was indecent. So I watched the show, hoping to see something scandalous, and what I saw was a guy singing and dancing. Big whoop. I wonder if I would have liked it more if it had pissed off my parents.

We got used to Elvis. We got used to Michael Jackson and Madonna grabbing their crotches. I know some will think it's a bad thing that we get used to it, but really, is our sensitivity to things like this the real problem.

And seriously, Miley Cyrus is driving her own career.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 11:53 AM

Heh! ;-) Yeah, gillymor...just think!

It amazes me the stuff the mainstream music industry is pushing on the public nowadays. Mind you, they were pushing some pretty stupid and crass stuff back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s too, but society had not yet declined into anything approaching the kind of decadence and emptiness one sees happening now.

And yet, there are always some very good things happening in music too. If one looks, one can find them, but very seldom on the mainstream media outlets. That tells you something about the business people who own those outlets...about what they are dedicated to and what they focus on...and what powers they serve.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 10:59 AM

You just do semi-colon, hyphen, close bracket

;-)

Yes, but comparisons don't get one far. One could think of hundreds of young women who would furnish a better model for the young to emulate. Which is, of course, in no way to go back on what I have already said of the regrettable quality of the performance in question.

~M~

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 10:30 AM

Thanks for that link, L.H. Joni was a great influence on my daughter, who learned and still plays a number of her songs, but just consider how much more profound and inspirational that performance would have been had Joni had shucked her dress and rubbed her hind parts up against a leering adult male (insert smiley-faced emoticon here, can't do 'em).

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 10:19 AM

I agree largely with DtG that children can often be trusted to distinguish the real from the phony. But I can't see that it is quite 'wrapping children in cotton-wool' to regret that they should be exposed at a vulnerable age, when they are obviously open to all sorts of influences, to a demonstration of such vulgarity & appalling taste, on the part of one who has previously been a beneficial and respected part of their lives; but who has now been used, for highly dubious motives, by the sort of exploitative organisation to which Lizzie, as always, so rightly draws attention. (Lizzie, as has been observed before, sometimes has a tendency to undermine her own excellent arguments by slightly hyperbolical overstatement and an occasionally over-emphatic tone; but she is to my mind one of the morally strongest and most principled regular contributors to this forum, and ought to be respected as such rather than made the butt of some people's self-satisfied contempt at the occasional apparent naivety of some of her concepts and utterances.)

In sum: this isn't just a moral matter, but an aesthetic one also, IMO.

~M~

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 10:11 AM

The designer of the iconic foam finger says his product will survive defilement:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2013/08/creator-foam-finger-deeply-upset-miley-cyrus/68853/

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 09:02 AM

Why not just watch something like this instead?

Joni Mitchell - Live in 1970 on the BBC

Consider the vast distance between magnificently beautiful and intelligent art, beautifully performed, and utterly decadent, malevolent tripe. It's up to you what goes into your head, what follows in your own life as a consequence of that, and the same goes for your children. It's up to them. I know what I'd choose.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 07:45 AM

I don't think I do, CS. Not in as much as it is restricted to the music industry. All businesses, bar none, need to sell their wares to keep going. Any business that wants to keep going will use whatever means they can to sell more.

The other thing is that I cannot understand why people continue repeating the same things that their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents ad infinitum have said. Surely all on here must remember their parents telling them not to watch this or do that and the feeling of annoyance and frustration that you were not being allowed to live your own life. The feelings that your parents were denying you something? In fairness, my parents were very good and quite liberal, odd considering my Dad is Polish and very religious! Anyway, what I am getting around to is the assumption that our kids will be 'corrupted' by popular culture. You all need to give them some credit. They are not stupid and can figure out reality and fantasy for themselves.

This display is, in my opinion, no worse than a lot of the stuff I saw in the 60's. My parents were probably aghast with some of the pop stars I liked. My Mum tells me that her Dad tried to stop her from listening to Irish rebel songs. Are not songs that glorify killing people worse than overtly sexual displays? My Dad travelled with a Gypsy band in his youth, much to my Grandmothers annoyance. Probably saw and learned more about sex then that anyone will learn from Ms Cyrus.

In a nutshell, I trusted my kids as I will trust my grandkids. All of you who believe they should be wrapped in cotton wool are not only denying them a true childhood but giving the impression that you think they are stupid enough to believe the hype.

Just my 2 pen'urth.

DtG

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 07:04 AM

LC: "Behind them both though, stand The Sick Corporate Music Industry who will stop at NOTHING now to sell their wares..."

Fully agree with you here Lizzie.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 06:46 AM

You disturb me at times, Richard.

ANYONE who thinks this video is suitable for children to be seeing, worries me..Anyone who thinks this is what women should be aiming for in their lives, worries me..

And let's not forget the bloke involved here either, for he's as big a prat as she is...

Behind them both though, stand The Sick Corporate Music Industry who will stop at NOTHING now to sell their wares...

Oh..and by the way, I have NO need for HRT thanks..nor do I ever want ANY relationship which is based on a man simply using, or abusing, my body for his own reasons..nor one where I would do that to a man.

By all means, you carry on with your physical activity, but hey, I'll take The Spiritual into mine, thanks, for I'm not just a bunch of hormones and body parts...

Even at Miley's age, had A Suit come up to me and told me wanted me to perform in such a way, he'd have felt the front and back of my hand as he flew across the room...

You see, I was raised to have not only respect for most others, but also to have one helluva lot of respect for myself...that's why both the men I married, I went on to divorce, due to their total lack of respect towards me..and when respect dies, for me, love dies...

You had love with your wife. I've heard you talk about her a lot, but now, all you do is spill forth oddness about sex and children being shown all that can give them such pleasure in later life etc..

I see a country filled with Groomed Children and Young People, many of whom are so damn torn apart inside that they have to render themselves senseless with alcohol as often as they can, purely to cope with the kind of Weirdness that some people think they should be surrounded by....

We grew up in very different times...and whilst I know that much of what you say, you say to wind me up and give yourself a chuckle, I happen to believe that we are staring at the Gates of Hell with this Hedonistic, Stupid, Ignorant and Feckingly, Fuckingly Horrendous behaviour which The Perverts want everyone to accept as Normal.

No thanks, Richard.

I ain't bothered about standing up and shouting out, about being different or unpopular, for what I saw Miley and The Bloke doing the other night filled me with revulsion.

And nope, that's not revulsion of any physical act, it's just revulsion over how disassociated some folks have become (and some have always been, having been born that way) over what was once seen as Love, as humans RELATING to each other, rather than just cold, hard, up for it sex with any Tom, Dick or Harry's dick...

Some bloody dodgy motives going on out there. I suggest you open your eyes a little wider, for the world your Grandchild will have to endure won't be too good....

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 06:29 AM

"Must stop making drawings of naked women in life classes and get out more..."

That made me laff Pete!
Yes, didn't you realise, nekkedness - and of course sex - is strictly reserved for the beautiful thin people under twenty five who invented it - this small elite group also invented drugs and partying. So oldies stick to your crochet and crosswords please; and don't forget to be horrified at young people today doing things that no-one ever thought of before!

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 06:03 AM

Wow, what a sheltered life I lead. I'd never heard of Miley Cyrus or twerking.

Must stop making drawings of naked women in life classes and get out more...

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 04:02 AM

Poor old Lizzie, get some HRT and try to remember how good it used to feel. If it never did there's even more wrong with you than I thought.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 03:16 AM

Here ya go, Richard..and I have to say that I thought you had more brain cells than to fall for Miley Cyrus being a total prat, as were all those around her, but hey, I guess The Emperor has sold you some of his New Clothes, eh?

Whilst you're busy Ogling & Backing The Grooming of Our Children

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 02:45 AM

meself ~~ why not just look it up by googling it? you will find lots of wiki & online dictionary definitions.

~M~

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 02:38 AM

Someone once told me that a musician has to decide whether they want to be known for their music or their personal lives, because that's what people will care about.

It may be something like this you have in mind:
======================================================
The Choice


The intellect of man is forced to choose
perfection of the life, or of the work,
And if it take the second must refuse
A heavenly mansion, raging in the dark.
When all that story's finished, what's the news?
In luck or out the toil has left its mark:
That old perplexity an empty purse,
Or the day's vanity, the night's remorse.


- William Butler Yeats
======================================================

Yes, she has chosen to go down a certain path, which in at least the short term will gain much publicity and no doubt a fair bit of money. Whether that turns out to be worth it long term is something only she will be able to decide.

As for 'grooming': a bit of an over reaction, I would say. Pillorying (or worse) for people accused of 'corrupting the youth' is hardly new, but somehow the youth generally seem to get through. Most can tell the difference between life and performance, and art in general is about challenging or exploring perceptions, assumptions and attitudes. Ok, this video is hardly high art, but even so it merits a place on the lower rungs of the ladder.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 12:14 AM

I have no interest in the video, but I am curious: what is 'twerking'?

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 04:32 PM

In the UK, "spunk" is male ejaculate.

Lizzie, learn to read. Then you may learn other things too, although I have no great hope of you ever learning anything.

Subject: RE: Miley Cyrus
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 04:03 PM

> I think in the US they call it 'spunky' which means something else again in the UK, but we'll pass that by.

Yeah, "spunky," which is energetic and assertive; but we also have "feisty," which is somewhat more tenacious and aggressive.

Otherwise, they're pretty much the same. Over here.