Help: Asking permission

Subject: Asking permission
From: WyoWoman
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 02:13 PM

I've been thinking of recording a CD sometime next year and some of the songs I want to use aren't in the public domain. How do I go about securing permission to use them, and how much does that generally cost? Anyone?

WW

Subject: RE: Help: Asking permission
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 02:17 PM

Well, it depends on the songs! If the songwriter has a contract with BMI or ASCAP you'll pay a hefty fee to the agency for permission- BMI wanted $150 a year for performances, no matter what, a few years ago. But if the song is by someone with no such affiliation, see if they have a web page, or write to them care of their cd company, and just ask. I find they're usually thrilled to share their music, although cds aren't part of my deal, just performances, and a tape that is sold to members and friends. Good luck!
Allison

Subject: RE: Help: Asking permission
From: Midchuck
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 02:27 PM

The US copyright law provides (or provided, the last time I looked it up) for what is called a "mandatory mechanical license," with regard to any song that has ever been recorded and released publicly, by anyone. In other words, you have to ask permission, but the owner of the copyright has to give it to you, if you pay. There is a statutory royalty of about 7 cents US, per copy of the song distributed on records. That's _distributed_, not sold. You have to pay on the ones you send out as promo material or give Aunt Zelda for Christmas, not just the ones you sell for $$$$.

Harry Fox Agency, the great villain in this long thread that's been running, is also the US clearing house for these licenses, so you go to them if all else fails. It's probably better to go to the composer directly if you have a contact address. He/She/It would presumeably rather license the song directly and get the whole royalty themselves, than give HFA a chunk for handling it for them.

Subject: RE: Help: Asking permission
From: Chet W.
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 02:30 PM

Unless the laws have just changed, there is no charge to the performer just for performing. That liability belongs to the owner of the venue or the promoter who has contracted for the place to put on a show. For that there is a yearly license that can be bought. I am a member of BMI, and the fee schedule they sent me shows, for recordings, 6 cents per salable copy per song, so if you record a copyrighted song and make a thousand copies you would owe $60. As to finding the composer or licensee, write to the Harry Fox Agency in NY, and they will tell you who holds the cr and at least a start on how to find them or their agent(s).

Chet

Subject: RE: Help: Asking permission
From: Anglofile
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 12:38 PM

Chet,

That's exactly what I did. I recorded a Shel Silverstein song, and through the Fox Agency paid about $60 for the privilege of putting it on the 1000 CDs I produced. Not a major expense, but then it was the only one I had to pay for.

Subject: RE: Help: Asking permission
From: MMario
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 12:51 PM

I believe mechanical copyright fee goes to 7.8 cents per copy as of 1/1/2000

Subject: RE: Help: Asking permission
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 03:07 PM

WyoWoman, a good basic reference for helping with questions like yours is Krasilovsky and Shemel's This Business of Music. Look up their discussion of compulsory and negotiated mechanical licenses. My vague recollection from the last time I read it is that they seem to consider a negotiated mechanical license to be a better deal if you can get it.

On the separate question of performance licenses, (not directly related to your inquiry, but others in this thread have already brought it up) I disagree in part with Chet W.'s notion that the performer doesn't pay. It is true that the venue owner buys the license, not the performer. Formally, Chet W. is right. But only formally. The cost of the license is passed on by the venue owner in the form of cover charges and whatnot, which the performer pays when he goes to the place as a patron rather than a performer. And the more performance licenses cost, the fewer will be the venues that can afford to hire live performers. All other things being equal, the performer pays in reduced opportunities to perform, relative to a regime in which performance licensing is cheaper. Finally, the public (of which the performer is a member) pays by having fewer opportunities to hear music performed.

In theory, the public has agreed to assume these costs in order to enlarge the public domain through the incentive mechanism of temporary copyright. In theory, then, the public agrees to these costs because it knows that a share of them will go to the songwriters. But there have been doubts raised about how well this system actually rewards the authors in practice. Some of these doubts are discussed in Harvey Reid's essay about ASCAP and BMI.

T.

Subject: RE: Help: Asking permission
From: Chet W.
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 05:01 PM

Actually, T, I am sure that I receive nothing of the venue licensing fees that you refer to. BMI seems to claim that this is what pays the cost of their other copyright enforcement on my behalf, which doesn't keep them from taking half when they do collect something on my behalf. I don't like the system, but I can't go around the world trying to collect on my own; would love to see a better system. As far as the venue licensing cost filtering down to us all, I am certainly on the side of starving producers as well as artists, but the last time I checked, the yearly BMI license is less than $300 per year (I'm not sure that it hasn't gone up), but anyone running a business that can't afford this price is not doing very well at all. If they tell you they can't afford to have music because of this cost, ask them to show you the actual cost per patron per cover charge per night, and you will find that it adds practically nothing. This is a way that I have seen certain unscrupulous venue operators try to bully performers into taking less for their performances, or to raise ticket/cover charges far beyond what is called for under the circumstances they cite. The business part of the music business is one of the most consistently dirty businesses in the world.

Chet

Subject: RE: Help: Asking permission
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 06:31 PM

WW, you can also search the Library of COngress database for who holds the copyright at LOCIS.LOC.GOV. We just did a double check on my brother's songs and symphonies, there, just cause we felt a little paranoid from all of the hoopla over HFA, recently.

I can't remember for sure if you cna put in that addy above or if you have to go to Library of Congress's site first. Either way, it's a direct and easy way to look. Give me a holler, if you want, and I'll help you look.

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Asking permission
From: WyoWoman
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 02:46 PM

Thanks all.

ww