BS: What's democracy got to do with it?

Subject: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 25 Sep 13 - 05:41 PM

You must understand
That the touch of your hand
Makes my pulse react
That it's only the thrill
Of boy meeting girl
Opposites attract

It's physical
Only logical
You must try to ignore
That it means more than that

[Chorus:]
Oh what's love got to do, got to do with it
What's love but a second hand emotion
What's love got to do, got to do with it
Who needs a heart
When a heart can be broken

It may seem to you
That I'm acting confused
When you're close to me
If I tend to look dazed
I've read it someplace
I've got cause to be
There's a name for it?
There's a phrase that fits?

I've been taking on a new direction
But I have to say
I've been thinking about my own protection
It scares me to feel this way

"What's democracy got to do, got to do with it
What's democracy but a sweet old fashioned notion
What's democracy got to do, got to do with it?
Could be colonialism, with a new name on it?

You want our oil?

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 25 Sep 13 - 05:52 PM

My point being, why are the western powers only interesting in promoting democracy, and opposing tyrants, if there is an economic (colonial) interest?

Why do we depose/oppose elected governments, only when there is an economic interest?

Why do we only insist on democracy, when the winning parties are in-sync with our economic interests? Why do we ignore the others?

Why are we only concerned about human rights, when there is an economic interest by our country?

Why should we be trusted as being on the "high ground"?

Why should we be seen a role model by evolving nations - looking to us for leadership and compassion, versus the alternatives?

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 13 - 10:13 PM

The plot was lost when Eisenhower's warning about the military industrial complex was ignored.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for a disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry, can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense, with our peaceful message and goals."
President Kennedy echoed this warning:
"We are as a people, opposed to secret societies.The dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts, far outweigh the dangers that are cited to justify them. There is a very grave danger than an announced need for an increased need for security, will be seized upon by those anxious to expand it's meaning to the very limits of censorship and concealment. That I do not tend to permit, so long as it's in my control"(and we all know what happened next in Dallas)
   So now politicians are puppets dancing on strings to legislate at the diktat of the shadowy puppeteers.
So to answer the question it can be stated with a high degree of certainty that in most circumstances democracy has nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 26 Sep 13 - 01:12 AM

Ruddy hell. All those months of advising them to keep banging the rocks together is paying off!

There was a television comedy character here in The UK called Alf Garnett. (The character was sold by The BBC to an American company who relaunched him as Archie Bunker. )

One memorable line from him written by the excellent Johnny Speight was "If you want to achieve true democracy you have to be prepared to shoot a few people. "

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 13 - 02:11 PM

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Sep 13 - 02:34 PM

"If you want to achieve true democracy you have to be prepared to shoot a few people. "

Its been that way since the ancient Greeks keeping in mind that no where at no time has anyone ever reached an ideal that an objective outside observer would call true democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Sep 13 - 03:20 PM

Democracy is an abstract concept.
The full set of Alf Garnett is available on cd.
I have seen the price $49.95 Can. Any lower?

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 26 Sep 13 - 03:25 PM

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or in the holy name of liberty or democracy?"
― Mahatma Gandhi

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 26 Sep 13 - 03:34 PM

"Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."
― James Bovard, Lost Rights: The Destruction of American Liberty

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Tootler
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 04:11 AM

Democracy is OK as long as it doesn't interfere with the right of the rich and powerful to shit on people.

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 05:13 AM

I like this thread

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Paul Reade
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 05:23 AM

"Democracy is the worst form of government ... except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." - Winston Churchill

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Iain
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 06:00 AM

Perhaps if many western politicians were not so heavily "influenced?" by big business and did not all appear to wander off to Bilderberg selection committees in the early stages of their careers, one might have a vague hope that democracy had a fighting chance.
It seems to me our selections are made for us and it does not make any difference as to what box is ticked on election day. The agenda is set for all the candidates irregardless of their pre-election promises.
The objective of all of them is to keep the sheep under control, break the middle classes, and obey the elite.
To keep the electorate in fear of false flag events, strip them of their freedom, keep them indentured to the banks and the serfs can be led into slavery.

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 09:08 AM

Democracy is just a concept we talk about, we fight wars about, we say we have but when it comes down to it there are no pure democracies... There are hybrid variations... Corrupt variations...

Face it... The Golden Rule seems to win out no matter what form of government one says they have and that is...

...he with the gold rules...

Certainly so here in the United States...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Stu
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 09:27 AM

Don't conflate democracy with capitalism.

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 10:00 AM

Democracy was always overrated. In order for it to stand a chance, everybody has to be seen to have an equal stake.

I haven't yet decided if it is democracy or equality that is unachievable.

In the meantime I for one have my list of who will be first against the wall come the glorious revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 10:10 AM

I still like this thread

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 10:14 AM

Yes, Musket... But it goes further than equal stakes... Equal information is a biggie... Most people will make the correct choice if presented the correct information...

A good example of this is global warming... 98% of climatologists believe it is real and a result of man's activities... 2% of climatologists - and I'd like to see their real credentials - believe that climate is cyclical and that what we are seeing is just a coincidence...

Guess who gets 98% of the BIG MEDIA microphone time??? You would think the 98% but, in reality, the 98% have been all but blackballed by BIG MEDIA and therefore what people get is the 2%'s narrative over and over and over until...

...half the people believe the 2% and, therefore, we do not have adult conversations - as in democracy - that we could and should be having...

On just about any issue that faces our country we are having the wrong conversation because we are not using correct information...

That's what a corrupt democracy looks like...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 10:27 AM

Democracy is the sworn enemy of Corporatism, corporate fascism and the plutocracy. Right now you could cite at least 5 examples of how corporations have gamed the system in order to overcome democracy in Congress, in the environment, in voting and in finance.

*You must remember this; a fist is just a fist, a lie is just a lie. The fundamental things of theft as time goes by.*


I am burying this following thought right here as not to wake the sleeping dogs but I owe it to people made of stern stuff to warn them what is capable, while not likely, of happening in as little as 2 1/2 weeks.

Shut down aside for the moment, when the debt limit extortion scheme goes through there are trillionaire vultures about to tear into the carcass of the US treasury once again. This is how;
Hedge funds, Goldman Sachs and other giants are now actually buying and selling CREDIT DEEFAULT SWAPS on the US Treasury note!

I for one consider this to be a financial terrorist act. Executive FDR like action should be considered in controlling what I think is being attempted.

None of what is going on right now is about the affordable care plan except as a distraction or decoy.
It is about another economic robbery scheme. This time if the faith in the dollar turns into a sell off of swaps betting on failure of the US Treasury note, failure could snowball out of fear and turn into an Argentine inflation game and the wealthy could buy up the remaining real estate, banks and business' after people sell to afford food. [worst case scenario]

Best case scenario is that rational minds prevail, fear takes a holiday and all the shut downs and defaults get turned off before they begin. A true democracy would prevail in such financial take over attempts.




WTTW
Dismiss this as pure imagination or not. What remains is the fact that CDS's are now being placed on the US treasury note.
Will the world's super wealthy be able to Hold Back from buying Credit default swaps on the full faith and credit of the US?
They just might if they are heavy with treasury notes along with a myriad of other factors.

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Musket smiling
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 12:01 PM

Go on Bridge, I dare you....

Hey Bobert! Don't forget the real enemy of democracy is hidden agenda. It isn't too difficult to read some recent threads and see the hidden agenda in what I just put....

The reality is that you are correct. If people had objective information, enough of them would make an objective choice.

Donuel. Here in The UK there us always the danger of that and corporations do try to influence unduly, but at least for the moment it appears to be in the interest of the media to expose it and the voting population seems to be sufficiently outraged enough for governments to be less blasé about lobbying bias. There is some, but dancing to the corporate tune happens more in the papers than in Westminster. (Over to you Bridge.)

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 03:46 PM

Many "democratic" countries just have only a couple of political parties from which to choose. In a "representative government" system you can vote for a candidate from a party to represent your perspective (or the majority of folks selecting the candidate). But, most often, under a "party system" the so-called representative is compelled to support the party, not those he/she represents. Quite often they are expelled if they do not support their party on an issue, regardless if that position represents the views of the voters the elected person was elected to represent.

In some locals, the elected person, potentially in conflict, could quit the party and be considered an "independent". But, there is a movement in many locals to limit the freedom to make this choice.

So, potentially "representative government" could be just that - but is mostly a misnomer.

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 04:09 PM

I wonder if the USA "founding fathers" had the role of lobbying in mind when they established the USA style of democratic government? Unfortunately, the lobbying influence is spreading throughout the democratic world.


Influence of lobbiests in USA govt.

Subject: RE: BS: What's democracy got to do with it?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 07:37 PM

If the Founding Fathers could have foreseen today's United States they most certainly would have spent more time on the Constitution and Bill of Rights... They most certainly would tightened up the 2nd amendment... I mean, I think it is perfectly clear but the NRA and gun-nuts refuse to accept it as it was written...

And Ed T is correct... They would have made sure that the government wasn't "For Sale" or "For Rent"...

B~