BS: Partly Missing Person ?

Subject: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 04:00 AM

Not entirely unheard of, but a little unusual:

Cremated remains left at Wichita liquor store

By Felix Rodrigues Lima
KSNW-TV
updated 10/2/2013 6:16:22 PM ET

WICHITA, Kansas — A Wichita businessman is trying to find the owner of a small bag of cremated remains labeled "Grandma."

Charlie Nguyen, the owner of Charlie's Liquor and Smote Shop on East Central, found the ashes.

"Just like that, people leave phone, keys, stuff like that all the time, but I've never seen anything like this."

Nguyen reviewed security tapes but couldn't identify the customer. The plastic bag holds a small amount of ashes and a piece of paper that reads "Remains of Helen K. Dapron," with "Grandma" in parentheses. It also gives apparent dates of birth and death, in October 1930 and June 2010.

"I tried to post it on the door, tried to return it to someone, but nobody came forward to claim this bag."

When that did not bring up any leads, Nguyen took to Craigslist posting about the find.

"My main thing is I need to return it to somebody. This is very important to someone. This is someone's grandma."

Nguyen says he is committed to doing everything in his power to find the owner.

"1 feel this is very important to me. If it was my relative, I would do whatever it takes to get it back, because this is priceless."

KSN has been trying to help Nguyen with his search for the ashes owners and there's only one record of a Helen K. Dapron in the US that matches up. She lived in a suburb of Phoenix, Arizona until her passing in 2010.

If you are or know the owner, call Nguyen at 616-5071.

[end quote]

The size of the bag implied suggests this isn't the whole person, but ...

The phone number would be US 316 616-5071, which would be long-distance (toll call) from outside Wichita KS, but we could likely pass on (local call here) a PM if someone finds a clue.

LiK was able to confirm birth and death dates for the person at Ancesery dot com, but we don't have direct access to local (Arizona) news sources to look for obituaries like this one. No relatives names were found in any of her searches. The birth/death dates do seem to be correct so she would have been 80 y.o. in 2010.

I don't believe we have many people in the Phoenix area, but it would only take one who remembers her to solve the mystery. While it's not a big personal interest to me, it certainly tweaks one's curiosity.

Makes you wonder if the person who left the bag really needed another drink but I suppose we shouldn't make that judgment without knowing the circumstances(?).

If no clues, discussion of other dumb/accidental things people do might fit with the subject.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 09:24 AM

I started a search but quit when one of the results was:

Helen K. Dapron - eBay
ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Helen-K.-Dapron
Found Exclusively On: Blekko
Find great deals on eBay on Helen K. Dapron. More to explore.

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 09:50 AM

All crematoria must keep records of all cremations undertaken on their premises. Perhaps one could at least contact crematoria in the two states (Arizona and Kansas) with the name of the deceased, with a view to discovering the circumstances of her funeral. This would reveal the name/s of her relative/s as they would have organised the ceremony and paid for the cremation service.

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 10:04 AM

Rapparee, I got similar results once when researching the Mars lander.
"Find great deals on Mars Lander on eBay!"
Up until then I was not aware that NASA had ever brought the thing back.
-Glenn

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 10:11 AM

Brings new meaning to the stories about "grandma" wandering off...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 10:27 AM

The search results reported most likely come from a number of con artists who pay to get their stuff at the top of Google (and other) results. They simply copy whatever you search for and say they've got it, but of course want a fee (or identity information they can snatch if you click) to tell you that all they've got is a vivid imagination.

The idea of checking crematoria services is a good one, but there are likely to be quite a number in the area where she died. Local (Phoenix AZ area) newspaper archives would also be likely to have obituaries, but getting into such archives to search is often difficult from outside the area, and often involves fees (sometimes fairly steep) for access.

Part of my curiosity is that the guy said he'd asked a local TV station for help, and I'm extremely dubious about their competence in such matters - but that's a local issue here. They might have some luck if they contact an affiliate station in the Phoenix area, and they might be more likely to get cooperation than an individual could, if they think of doing that.

One of the other stations often does better research, but only if someone will cry for them on camera - since that makes a better news clip.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 11:15 AM

Ancestry dot com shows the name in question deceased at the appropriate date (2010) in Maricopa AZ, and also reports a Joe H. Dapron (born "abt 1889" spouse Lenore) in Maricopa in the 1930 census. He'd be about the right age to be her daddy?.

A Joe H Dapron (same name as the possible father?) appears in Nevada Public Records 1956 - 2005 (Births Deaths and Marriages) who might be a son (Jr?) to the possible(?) father (Spouse Pearl Cureton) so maybe a brother(?). Maybe he - or she - went to Reno for a divorce(?) since Maricopa is shown as his place of residence in that report.

Unfortunately the site wants a membership to show anything else. LiK's subscription might get her in to something more, but I don't know how to play with her stuff so I'll have to wait 'til she wakes up.

(Obviously I'm a little bored and nothing much else to do at the moment.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 11:45 AM

Since the ashes are in a bag, it's possible/likely that they were meant to be scattered locally. So a notice to Lost and Found might be productive.

Perhaps the grandson - probably 25-30 years old - is embarrassed to admit he lost the ashes?

This mystery has the makings of an interesting story.

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 12:45 PM

Although estimates are risky, born in 1930 there were lots of young brides "back then" so she'd have been fairly likely to have had a first kid by about 1950, and the child could have one (a grandkid) by around 1965-70. The grandkid could be in his late 40s(?), although possibly somewhat younger.

Great-grandkid (or great-great-) grabbed the baggie 'cause he thought it was somethin' else and dropped it when the other kid (who knew it wasn't that) wouldn't buy ?????

(Might as well make this a good story.)

LiK's up, but will have to leave for a while, and she reports that the Ancesty site is "down for maintenance," so maybe something later.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 12:59 PM

I can hardly wait for the next installment!

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 02:19 PM

Last Chapter:

Cremated remains claimed at Wichita liquor store

By Felix Rodrigues Lima
KSNW-TV
03 October 2013

WICHITA, Kansas – A Wichita businessman returned a small bag of cremated remains labeled "grandma".

Kathy Leonard came by Charlie's Liquor and Smoke Shop Thursday to claim her mother's remains.

They had been left at the shop two weeks ago.

Since then, owner Charlie Nguyen had posted an ad on Craigslist hoping someone would claim them.

Nguyen was overwhelmed with emotion upon being able to return the remains to their rightful owner.

"When I see her emotion, the tear drop on her eyes, I just, I don't know what to say," said Nguyen.

Leonard says she plans to put the remains with the rest of her mothers ashes and keep them in a safe place so they don't get lost again.

********

Guess we'll have to find somethin' else to talk about.

Any ideas?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 03:20 PM

Well, I shed skin cells all the time. There are even bits of me that have been cut out by chirurgeons over the years, not to mention blood, sweat, spit and tears. And teeth.

Am I a partly missing person? Is it true that I'm not all here?

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 04:07 PM

A friend had the cremated remains of his wife in the back of his car when the car was stolen.

He never got either back.

Lord only knows where Linda ended up...

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 04:58 PM

Why do they call it remains, when, in fact, there little really remaining? Maybe a better term would be concentrate?Just wondering- not attempting to scatter the discussion;

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 05:02 PM

So, for the remains of the discussion- I've often wondered: when a person is creamated, are the bones pulverized? I ask as it seems complex to men to render bones down to powder through burning?

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 05:21 PM

Yes, Ed, the burned remains pass through a magnet to remove metal such as fillings, joints etc, then go into a 'cremulator' to be pulverised into dust. I know this as my last village had a large crematorium which held open days for people to learn about the process.

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: gnomad
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 06:13 PM

EdT: I'm pretty sure I saw a documentary a few years ago which indicated that bones got smashed to powder in a sort of tumbler device (contained some big ball bearings as I recall) with the resulting dust added to the more obvious ashes. I think you can turn bones to dust through pure combustion, but that the grinding process uses much less fuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 06:41 PM

I quite like the idea of cremation- especially in this crowded world- but I would not want to be present at a 'burning'. Unless, of course, I was the crematee.

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 07:15 PM

Most cremation leaves a few 'smallish' bits of bone..maybe up to 1/4" or so. At least the 2 that I have been involved in spreading. I suppose it could be filtered down to 'tiny', but why bother?

I kinda like the idea... more real and significant that just 'sand & dust'.

(I decided many years ago not to take up a grave site...)

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 09:47 AM

Actually I kind of like the ancient practice of using a tomb temporarily, then once natural processes have reduced your remains to a manageable little heap of bones, they put you in a box on a shelf.
Being a little flip as usual, but I really do like the idea of neither rushing nor preventing the natural process.
-Glenn

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 10:05 AM

There is much to be said for leaving the remains for the vultures, as is done in some parts of India.

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 12:59 PM

EBarnacle, here in Alaska we frequently see eagles bearing away the remains of dismembered fish; sometimes the intestines dangle from its talons in a long stream waving in the breeze.

I would dislike seeing the equivalent. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 01:09 PM

My grandparents' ashes were in the back of a car that my uncle sold, to a couple from Minnesota who thought it was eminently sensible to keep bags of ashes in the trunk for snow purposes, and used them as such, apparently, before we got back in touch with them... we still think it's funny, but others might not.

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 05:53 PM

Mrrzy, that made me chuckle!

I thought cremated remains were called cremains? But I have been wrong before, you know......

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 08:56 PM

I long ago decided. I want to be encased, naked, in a cylinder of plastic, like starfish and things are for high school biology labs. I want an eye put in the top, and my grave a "well" drilled for the purpose. Lower the cylinder and put a round stone on top to tell who's under there.

That way, when someone in the future says, "I wonder what he looked like -- must have been a handsome devil!" they can move the stone, drop a hook from a wrecker in the eye, and pull me up to see. And there I'll be, both arms bent at the elbow, middle fingers upraised....

Hey, that sort of thing was good enough for Jeremy Bentham and he's still hanging around the University of London.

Subject: RE: BS: Partly Missing Person ?
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 09:16 PM

Wish we had a like button!

I would like to be cremated, then have my ashes put into a firework, a sky rocket (or two or three, I've no idea how much they hold), have my friends gather round for my final farewell party, and have someone light the blue touch paper to send me off in a shower of stars. Then someone could say "she was always a bright spark, you know......"

A much nicer memory to leave behind than one of sobbing and crying in church.