BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?

Subject: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 05:09 PM

I mean, who could possibly have considered such a thing. Innocent face.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: bobad
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 05:24 PM

He had many enemies.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 05:31 PM

Humph. I was pretty sure this thread was started by SongWronger. Guessed wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 06:08 PM

For once a conspiracy theory is appropriate.

When a hostile government has actually been more or less openly considering assassination of a political leader, and has a record of carrying out assassinations, it is inevitably suspect when the leader is in fact assassinated. And polonium is only available to people with access to fairly advanced nuclear technology.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 06:36 PM

When a person is suspected to be murdered, the first candidate looked at is often the spouse? Has this been ruled out?

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 06:56 PM

A jilted camel perhaps?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,Even More Cynical Guest
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 07:01 PM

She has claimed that he was murdered all along. In fact, she may be the only person who didn't want to get rid of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 07:25 PM

Polonium is not something you can buy over the counter. You need to have the nuclear technology. Only about 100grams are produced every year on the whole planet. And it has a short half-life, so it needs to be pretty recently produced before being used if it's to be an effective means of killing.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 07:45 PM

Who did it is obvious, considering the fact that it was polonium.

Any Palestinian leader who becomes effective in leading his people must be constantly wary.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 07:50 PM

The Middle East is a dangerous place to live...

I wouldn't want to have been born there...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 09:14 PM

Who? Why speculate? There will be all the speculation anyone cares to read by those with agendas....

All *I* can say is that... in this world, it's not much of a surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Penny S.
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 04:16 AM

I found the Israeli reaction to be trivialising and nasty - saying that the investigation was not scientific and more like a soap opera. It seemed to me to be the reaction of a bully, and not politically sensible in the circumstances. How not to make yourself look innocent.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 04:29 AM

What Israel actually said.
"In response, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor told the BBC, "This is more soap opera than science."

Palmor said the investigations had been commissioned by "interested parties" such as Arafat's widow and the Palestinian Authority and had "never bothered" to look for some key data.

"The other huge hole in the theory is the absence of all access to the French hospital where Arafat died and to Arafat's medical files," said Palmor.

"How can the cause of death be determined without the opinion of the doctors or the results of the medical tests they ran on the patient? Israel doesn't feel concerned in the least," he told the BBC.

Raanan Gissin, a former Israeli government spokesman, also played down the accusations that Israel had anything to do with Arafat's death.

"It was a government decision not to touch Arafat at all," Gissin told The Associated Press. "If anyone poisoned him, it could have been someone from his close circle."

Arafat's family refused to allow an autopsy when he died.
Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 06:11 AM

If one already is convinced thay know he was poisoned, and who did it- what was the purpose of the testing?

For those who are open minded on the issues, why would it not be logical in this situation (as with others) to ask question the validity of the testing process and those who were conduxting the tests and related factors?

One could "spin" conspiracy theories on any related angle. Given the time elapsed and circumstances, I suspect we will never know for sure. It is odd that some type of scientifically credible professional, and unbiased investigation was not conducted earlier? That is what puzzles me.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 07:55 AM

Meh, Arafat, was the head of a terrorist organization that had murdered many Israeli civilians....live by the sword etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 07:59 AM

The article in the paper stated that the samples were split and then examined by the Palestinians and the Russians. The Russians apparently said that there was no sign of excessive polonium.

Given the nature of the man, there must have been many enemies both otside and inside of his organisation.

It is very tempting to start theorising about the culprit being the most likely prime suspect, Israel. But it would seem that they had a much better opportunity when he was besieged in his compound and confined there for a long period.

Israel may have been more worried about Hamas than Arafat.

I'll pass on the conspiracy theory and wait for the facts, if any.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 08:50 AM

How not to make yourself look innocent.

... may well have been the purpose. The political Middle East is divided in those who want peace and those who don't (for a variety of reasons, and of course on either side); the latter welcome any opportunity to sabotage peace talks. An interested person (- need not be a conspiracy -) may even inject polonium into the dead body of a cancer victim.

For those who strive for a better future in the Middle East, political and rhetorical analysis is more important than chemistry.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 09:24 AM

"Arafat's widow, not mentioning Israel at all, explicitly accused members of his "close circle" in a Reuters interview."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/08/uk-palestinians-arafat-russians-idUKBRE9A70ER20131108

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 09:29 AM

Polonium is not easily available. You CAN buy it without a registration, but the amount is less than miniscule. It's used in, among other things, cloud chambers.

It is also found in tobacco smoke. Did I want to use it as a poison (and it can be found in the liver, kidneys and spleen by its decay pattern) and my victim was a smoker, I'd put it in his/her cigarettes, cigars, or pipe tobacco. But you have to act fast because the half-life is 30 to 50 days.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 09:32 AM

More on Arafat's wife:

Roee Nahmias
Published:         08.16.06, 22:26 / Israel News

From now on say Suha al-Trablusi: Suha Arafat, widow of Yasser Arafat, secretly married Lahasn al-Trabulsi, the brother-in-law of the Tunisian president, a number of days ago, a Tunisian website reported.

As is fitting to the widow of the former Palestinian Authority chairman, this time Suha also married someone close to power. Al-Trablusi is the brother of Leila Ben Ali, who is the wife of Tunisian President Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali.

The sister and her husband gave their blessing to the marriage.

The marriage followed a wave of stubborn rumors in Tunisia, according to which al-Trabulusi planned to marry Suha's sister. However,
credible sources said that he divorced a few months ago to marry Suha and not her sister, and that one of the main reasons for the wedding is that is his interest in Suha's large fortune.

Two years ago, after Arafat's death, Suha was personally promised by Mahmoud Abbas' staff that she would receive USD 22 million a year, on the basis of an agreement Arafat himself sent his wife while on his death bed – USD 11 million to cover her lifestyle in Paris for half year.

Blackmail

Abbas and Palestinian senior figures were forced to come to a deal with Suha, after she "created facts on the ground," in accordance with French law, and prevented PA members from visiting Arafat as he was dying, or to take decisions on disconnecting the life support machine, until she received her promise. PA senior figures concluded it was worth paying her and ending the episode.

The money given to Suha comes from the "secret fortune" of the PA, managed personally by the PA president. The fortune is worth around USD four billion, and is kept in a number of bank accounts – in Tel Aviv, London, and Zurich.

Since Arafat's death, Suha refused to live in PA territory or any Arab capital other than Tunis, and enjoys close relations with the Tunisian president and his wife.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 12:07 PM

Arafat, was the head of a terrorist organization

As opposed to the Mossad?

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 03:29 PM

Sources of Polonium-210 does not seem to be that rare at all? That may open the door up to many potential suspects, if the guy was murdered (which seems to be a sketchy case, anyway?.


Based on the fact sheet below, it seems very odd that, if he were poisoned, why would much trace of Polonium exist so long after Arafat's death? Could these traces be from common sources?

It also seems odd that it would be on his clothes, as this is not a route to poisoning?

It makes me wonder- could his heavy smoking be a link to trace amounts on his clothes, as this is a source?



""Polonium-210 (Po-210) is a radioactive element that occurs naturally and is present in the environment at extremely low concentrations"".

""Deposition from the atmosphere on tobacco leaves results in elevated concentrations of Po-210 in tobacco smoke. There are tiny amounts of Po-210 in our bodies.""

""It is a fairly volatile (50% is vaporized in air in 45 hours at 55°C)""

""Po-210 has a half-life of 138 days. This is the time it takes for the activity to decrease by half due to a process of radioactive decay. Po-210 decays to stable lead-206 by emitting alpha particles, accompanied by very low intensity gamma rays. The majority of the time Po-210 decays by emission of alpha particles only, not by emission of an alpha particle and a gamma ray. Only about one in a 100,000 decays results in the emission of a gamma ray""

""Polonium-210 (Po-210) is a radioactive element that occurs naturally and is present in the environment at extremely low concentrations. ""

""As an alpha-emitter Po-210 represents a radiation hazard only if taken into the body... Therefore, external exposure from Po-210 is not a concern and Po-210 does not represent a risk to human health as long as Po-210 remains outside the body. Most traces of it on a person can be eliminated through careful hand-washing and showering.""

:""Po-210 can enter the body through eating and drinking of contaminated food, breathing contaminated air or through a wound. The biological half-time (the time for the level of Po-210 in the body to fall by half) is approximately 50 days. If taken into the body, Po-210 is subsequently excreted, mostly through faeces but some is excreted through urine and other pathways. People who come into contact with a person contaminated by Po-210 will not be at risk unless they ingest or inhale bodily fluids of the contaminated person.""


polonium210.fact sheet

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 03:30 PM

Last post was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 03:45 PM

"It was a government decision not to touch Arafat at all,"

That is interesting. In effect it confirms that the possibility of killing Arafat was seriously considered by the Israeli government. Even if that government spokesman is actually speaking the truth, and after considering assassination the official decision was made not to go ahead, the possibility arises that maybe not everyone agreed with that decision.

The trouble is, when you have a past history of assassination, when an assassination of an enemy occurs, you are going to be a suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 03:52 PM

I'm still holding out for the jilted camel. Gawd knows Camels produce a lot of smoke, hence the polonium. Plus, Arafat was often heard to say he'd walk a mile for a hump.........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 04:34 PM

I don't see your last connection, MoH?

"Touch" and "Kill" are not the same words,and have different meanings, unless you have direct inside knowledge that most of us don't have access to.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 05:13 PM

Folks are referencing former assassinations conducted by the Israeli govt. anyone care to provide a list and links, I'm interested.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 05:17 PM

As opposed to the Mossad?

Yes

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 05:27 PM

As opposed to the Mossad?

Yes

So you're in favor of the Mossad terrorist organization then BooBad?

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 05:41 PM

The Mossad doesn't target innocent men, women and children as far as I know, if you have information to the contrary perhaps you can share it with us oh anonymous one.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Penny S.
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 06:36 PM

It did occur to me to wonder why something with such a short half-life was still around, but I assumed that they had been analysing for daughter isotopes as well. It isn't surprising that the Russians have not found anything - or have they? In mid October an announcement was made that nothing had been found, and rescinded, but this morning I thought I heard a report that they had found polonium. Odd.
If the Israeli spokesman had made that sort of comment it would have seemed less dismissive. The tone of voice was what had made it sound, to me, trivialising, as much as the words themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 07:21 PM

""I strongly doubt the fact that even if Arafat's body is exhumed, that absolute proof could be found.""

Quote:Prof. Dr. Thomas Fanghänel,director of the Institute for Transuranium Elements (ITU) in Karlsruhe, a joint research center with the European Commission. The ITU carries out, among others things, nuclear forensic testing,- (but is not involved in the Arafat investigation).


Dr. Thomas Fanghänel on polonium and nuclear forensic testing

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 07:49 PM

"Rub out" isn't the same word as "kill" either, Ed. Nor is "take care off", or any other number of euphemisms. That's one reason they are used, to provide wriggle room.

"Innocence" is a tricky word in international politics. Is Netanyahu "innocent"? Was Ariel Sharon? Tony Blair? Barack Obama? Putin? All have innocent blood on their hands.

CS asked for a list of assassinations carried out by Israel. Here is a Wikipedia article with such a list No doubt most of these also also have innocent blood on their hands.

But once you justify states assassinating their enemies, where does it stop?

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 08:30 PM

'Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?'

The butler did it.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 09:10 PM

Well the ones you refer to in your last post are closer to kill than 'touch' MoH.

I did not 'rub out' my wife, is much closer to kill than I did not touch my wife. If they all meant kill- jails would be full of folks for murder, that never killed anyone.

A similar question to yours may be did Arafat have any 'innocent, or other' blood on his hands in his lifetime? There are likely few innocent leaders - and there may have been few in history?

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 09:17 PM

Of course he did, along with Netanyahu etc.

I don't think it too likely that the Israeli spokesman was saying that the Israeli government after due consideration decided not to give Arafat a loving embrace.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 03:31 AM

That's a pretty impressive list, McGrath.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 05:05 AM

re: the list (thanks btw, I was pretty surprised to see that kind of info available on Wiki or I would have googled for it myself!) 'impressive' it is; they seem to really have gotten seriously busy since 2000.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 06:26 AM

I was at home with my wife...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 07:20 AM

It's been pointed out that the likely method of the killing - polonium poisoning - indicates a state with nuclear facility.
Israel's reputation as a terrorist State and her quint custom of doing away with anybody who gets in the way of her ambitions of Empire makes her the prime suspect.
As for her "we didn't do it guv" - back to Mandy Rice Davis, it would appear.
Time to send in Jane Tennison I think.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 09:12 AM

It is interesting to see how so many different people can process the same information and come up with a variety of conclusions from a very different different perspective.

I suspect if some folks were personally being accused of something, they may prefer a much more objective standard be used to determine their guilt or innocence, than when they are already "convinced" of the guilt or innocence of other folks :)

By the way, In the above comment, I am not pointing to any current mudcat poster,dead or alive, or in any other state of lucidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 09:48 AM

"But once you justify states assassinating their enemies, where does it stop?"

In the case of Israel I would venture that it would stop once its citizens were no longer targeted by terrorists and it were no longer threatened to be wiped off the map by its enemies.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 10:40 AM

"You would venture to say" BooBad?

Have you any evidence to support that preposterous assertion?

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 12:32 PM

"Have you any evidence to support that preposterous assertion"
Considering the fact that Israeli terrorism has targeted nomads, unarmed refugess, foreign diplomats, starving civilians - anybody who gets in the way of their expansionist policy - I wouldn't think so.
The US has vetoed over 100 resolutions of condemnation against Israel for war crimes and human rights abuses, which puts them as front runners in the terrorism stakes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 01:13 PM

I have a lot of trouble with many of the things that Israel has done, but there is only one country that has used of Polonium 210 as a poison, and it isn't Israel. Have you forgotten Litvinenko already?

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 01:37 PM

Who cares?

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 01:38 PM

Obviously a list of possible sources of Polonium would include Russia, along with other nuclear states. However a list of nuclear states which on the face of it might plausibly have wished to assassinate Arafat is rather shorter.

Suspicion is not proof. In a court case innocent until proved guilty is the rule. but if there were a trial, Israel would be the one in the dock to be judged.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 02:04 PM

The Israelis are also responsible for global warming, the recent Chrysler recall and difficulties with the Affordable Health Care Act.

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 04:36 PM

And Arafat was poisoned by Barack Obama.

Obama was also responsible for the Kennedy assassination.

(Damned good shooting for a two-year-old!).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who poisoned Yasser Arafat?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 05:16 PM

""Arafat claimed to have survived 40 attempts on his life.""

who killed cock robin ....?