BS: Armistice Day (debate)

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 08:24 AM

No.
When you posted about schoolkids cut up and fed to pigs, I asked you for details and searched for it myself.
You made it up.
It was a lie.

Likewise when you posted a "quote" and claimed it was from a non-existent site.
Google could only find your posting of it.
It was a lie.

Then you claimed that the November 2013 HPA/PHE November report on 2012 was an "interim report" and was "superseded."
None of that was true.

If you do not want to be known as a liar, stop making shit up.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Aldridge Prior, the hopeless liar
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 08:14 AM

Ooh.. I don't know Keith.

I've posted so many posts, mostly as a guest, that I don't know how many posts I need forgiving for?

Are you including everything I say or just the things that upset your preconceptions of how the world spins?

You see, to your mind, they are all lies.


zzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 07:55 AM

Which lie do you want to be forgiven for?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 07:12 AM

Be my guest.

Fancy the dropping the liar claim you make at me



And Greg




And Jim



And anyone not commissioned by The BBC to comment on history. Subjective discussion papers by universities over the basis of your angle on matters isn't entirely useful either.

How about what Keith thinks? Is that too hard without links to opinions of others portrayed as unequivocal facts by you?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 05:45 AM

University Of Leicester. Department of Politics and International Relations.
"Party competition on the centre right of British politics has intensified in the last decade, with New Labour occupying territory traditionally inhabited by the Conservative Party and the UK Independence Party (UKIP) emerging as a rival to the Conservatives on their right flank. "

http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/politics/research/research-projects/centre-right


Can we drop the politics?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 04:48 AM

People are expressing opinions Musket.
No-one has lied.
I am not challenging anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 04:43 AM

Three hours on. Keith has posted on other threads yet remains somewhat quiet here.

Can't wait to see what we have all got wrong now!

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 01:15 AM

Someone appears to be a little slow shouting liar! at the posts above?

Must be one hell of a cut and paste coming our way.

Take cover ! Incoming !




False alarm.
Still waiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 07:08 PM

Last guest was me!

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 07:06 PM

It appals me that people can accept the effectiveness of Goebbels' propaganda in propelling Hitler to the heights of a godlike leader, yet in the next breath, deny that the same techniques had any effect on the British public in WW1.

After all, our lads wouldn't be fooled by that, being so much smarter than the Hun!

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 06:56 PM

"The belief that the viscous Hun was about to arrive on our shores drove people on to protect their families."

The above sentence could be a true representation of what the British public believed.

It could also be a true representation of what the German public believed about Jews in November 1938, and for the exact same reason.....................PROPAGANDA!

Remember the events of Kristalnacht?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 06:35 PM

what has politics to do with it anyway?

Jesus wept. Again.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket finding his brown shirt
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 04:44 PM

Are you sure centre right is the majority position here?

For every wannabe Farage we have a few armchair socialists.

As your reputation as Mr Logic is fairly established, what does centre right mean? What figures do you have to substantiate your claim ? Or are you making it up again ?

If it means sharing your take on society, I must be a raving tree hugger peering out of my yurt. Note to self. Pick up a copy of The Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 12:42 PM

I am centre-right, the majority position here.
That puts me well to the left of most US Democrats.
My stance?
Absurd?
I read the History.
There is now a consensus on the issues we have discussed.
I would not be such an arrogant fool to believe it to be all wrong and me right.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 12:30 PM

"I am right of centre."

"I read what the historians wrote."

Keith A of Hertford.

Lighter notes The Donkeys (1961) by leading historian the late Alan Clark. His post was, to most people reading this thread in bemusement an example of how later historians are dismissing the work of credible historians such as Clark.

I asked the question in a mocking sense, as your stance is absurd. As many here are pointing out.

Do you have actual thoughts on the war, based on the copious amount of reading you have done? Any fruits of your efforts?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: selby
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 09:07 AM

07:12 guest was me had been signed out.
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 07:17 AM

Yes Keith.
The scale of the losses almost incomprehensible.
First Guest, I am not Right Wing, and what has politics to do with it anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 07:12 AM

The one thing we don't know or understand is how people thought then. Watching old newsreels of the pals regiments being formed the patriotism the people had we can't start to understand. The belief that the viscous Hun was about to arrive on our shores drove people on to protect their families. Some people saw it as a great adventure. People still join the forces today arguably more informed that our ancestors and still suffer the ravages of war and conflicts. No matter how you view it, how you discuss it, still a sad loss of life.
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 03:07 AM

Wasn't Alan Clark right wing enough for you then Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 01:46 AM

You said, Dec 3, 2pm,
So you actually believe Germany had a snowball's chance in hell of invading occupying and taking over the British Isles?

Invasion was recognised as a serious threat in 1914, and many regiments were deployed to meet it.

page 125
"In 1914, invasion preparations and home defence measures were taken all along the east coast of Britain, from Scotland to Sussex.
While the authorities tried to keep these preparations out of the public eye-to avoid scaremongering, people witnessed them, stoking fear and anxiety.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lVK0SSmvD5wC&pg=PA125&lpg=PA125&dq=invasion+preparation+1914&source=bl&ots=qPt2tdhG9V&sig=JIZ

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 06:01 PM

Why were they wrong Greg?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 05:42 PM

British soldiers felt they were fighting for their country and its values, wrong though they may have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 02:50 PM

What isn't widely known is that Kipling was very pointedly referring to Members of Parliament who before the war had denied there was any need for greater defense appropriations or a better equipped British Army.

Kipling's son John was killed on his first day of action. Kipling, who was neither a fool nor a dupe nor a profiteer, continued to support the Allied war effort to the end.

According to Oxford historian Margaret MacMillan:

"The wartime generals were not all cowards and incompetents as Alan Clark argued in his infamous 'The Donkeys' (1961). ... And was the war just a dreadful mistake or was it about something? ... It is condescending and wrong to think they were hoodwinked. British soldiers felt they were fighting for their country and its values."

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 12:10 PM

Oh, wow, Musket. Now that is certainly definitive. I am entirely convinced by the incomparable conclusiveness of your arguments; and so are my cat Cleo and my wife's admirable collection of Teddy Bears, Jemima, Juniper, Roo, Sophie, Jersey, & Emmie, with one Panda called Pandora. How could any of us ever have doubted the entire veracity of every assertion you have ever promulgated on this site!

Kamerad! Kamerad!

teeheeheeheeheehee...

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 11:21 AM

Sure thing Michael.

www.mudcat.org

You will find it all there.

Sorry I don't do cut and paste unless I feel it relevant. I use Mudcat.org for debate rather than top trumps.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 11:02 AM

36 hours is still a lie.
Why do you do it Musket?
Is it a compulsion?
Should we pity you?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 10:48 AM

If your claim is valid, Musket, may we please have a rundown {with copy-pastes for confirmation} of the 6 Mudcatters in addition to yourself whom you claim K to have denounced as liars in the past 36 hours.

I think, as they say, we should be told. They must have been pretty feeble denunciations -- I for one have not the least recollection of any of them.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 08:25 AM

Just for you and checking back , I was lying. Yes.

36 hours not 24.

My bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 05:51 AM

In the past 24 hours you have inferred that seven mudcat members are liars

You have just made that up.
It is you alone, but maybe seven times.
You are quite a prolific liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 04:05 AM

Nice to see you are reading what I put. With regard to the field of commissioning health services, you can even quote me. If you search you might even quote me from publications on the issue.

Although on other issues I am as amateur as you. Except I don't take snippets out of context and cry when educated people laugh at them.

In the past 24 hours you have inferred that seven mudcat members are liars. Getting silly aren't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 03:31 AM

You DID state that the November HPA report was "preliminary."
That was unquestionably a lie.
You DID state that it was "superseded" by another.
That was unquestionably a lie.
You are a liar and must expect all you statements to be challenged.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 03:16 AM

You do not know what a lie is Musket.
None of those examples are lies.
Thinking that you know more than the historians makes you a fool, not a liar.
Likewise your ignorance of the word Islamist. It does not describe all Muslims, fool.
It is only a lie to note Christian atrocities if you make them up, which you did.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 02:33 AM

Very poignant.

At the risk of misquoting old Rudyard;

If any question why millions died
Keith will say that we all lied.





Let's see. I'm a liar for questioning revision of history. I'm a liar for noting atrocities by groups claiming to be Christian. I'm a liar for pointing out the unfortunate use of a word that paints every Muslim as a terrorist. I'm a liar for pointing out why we spend so much money on public health.

Oh. I'm a liar for reprinting a post by Keith that he should be ashamed of.

Zzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Joe_F
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 07:57 PM

If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied.
          -- Kipling

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 26 Dec 13 - 06:35 PM

Thinks he's Ernie Wise now. Still, it's Xmas I suppose.



Bring me sunshine..........

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Dec 13 - 05:43 PM

Not my "tosh."
Everything I said can be substantiated with quotes from eminent, acclaimed historians.
Nothing you have said can be.
But as you say," historians should know better," like what you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 26 Dec 13 - 07:05 AM

Reality can be very sad. Whereas propaganda can be so jolly what?

The entertainment gets better. Keith has poor gullible Bobad believing his tosh now. Absolutely delicious that he sees it as fun in the other direction.

For me, Keith has found an excellent way of demonstrating how propaganda works in practice. Mind you, I hope he feels appropriately embarrassed when Bobad realises he has been sold a pup. (You can look that up too if you must.)

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: bobad
Date: 25 Dec 13 - 04:22 PM

"Saddoes"......nice word, I had to look it up....aptly fitting.....or should that be fittingly apt?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Dec 13 - 02:17 PM

It must have happened mate. I read it in The Week!

Mrs Musket got me a copy of Wipers Times. (Stocking filler. I had accidentally noticed it and she said it was for her Uncle. So glad it's mine, I was feeling rather jealous.

Best not let Keith read the forward and introduction. He is so enjoying being clever, I'd hate to piss on his chips.

Merry Xmas to everybody! Especially the few who are only here today because their granddads survived the carnage.

By the way. According to the late Tony Capstick, their full back was a big dirty bastard and their winger was a little Austrian Corporal with a moustache who picked up the ball on the spike of his helmet and ran off with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Dec 13 - 02:38 AM

Christmas Day, guys - time to declare a truce, get an old football out and have a kick-about, shake hands, show each other photos of your families, share a fag and a drop o' rum.

If Tommies and Jerries in the trenches could manage it, I'm sure you lot can too! (Or was it just a figment of the propagandists' imaginations?).   :-)

Merry Christmas! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 24 Dec 13 - 04:21 AM

Confession time. I confuse erudite Donnish wit with knob gags.

Always been a failing of mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Dec 13 - 03:18 AM

Dear me, no, Ian.

So how about some erudite donnish wit right back to you?

On second thoughts, no: as may have been observed, I make it a principle never to indulge in erudite donnish wit around and about these parts!.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 24 Dec 13 - 02:22 AM

Michael. I racked my brains to come up with soft cunt. Please don't dismiss my erudite donnish wit.

Keith A Hole of Hertford clearly is wiping the floor with dissenters. If he weren't doing so, I wouldn't find it quite so ironically entertaining. In Victorian times, people paid good money to stare at the human exhibits. Mudcat offers good value.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Dec 13 - 01:56 AM

"fuckwit" sez Greg

"Soft cunt" sez Musket.

Could there be any clearer instances of the inevitable descent to abuse on the part of poor pathetic losers when attempts at rational argument have manifestly failed?

Saddoes both!

Still -- Wish them [& all] a Merry Xmas just the same...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Dec 13 - 01:24 AM

there are hundreds. Possibly thousands.

Of course there are Greg dear.
And you could name them all if you wanted to, couldn't you?

No-one is laughing at you.
Everyone believes you.
There might even be millions, or billions, or trillions, .......

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: bobad
Date: 23 Dec 13 - 05:22 PM

Keith's wiping the floor with you guys and I'm enjoying the spectacle - keep it up please - fine entertainment for the holidays.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 23 Dec 13 - 04:30 PM

Still haven't worked out why he keeps rattling on about the publisher.

Soft cunt

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Dec 13 - 03:39 PM

Is there one [historian] whose findings contradict my views?

Absolutely correct, fuckwit. There is not one, there are hundreds. Possibly thousands.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 13 - 02:43 PM

Musket, you previously made an issue of who the publisher was.
Oxford University Press is a department of the University of Oxford. It furthers the University's objective of excellence in research, scholarship and education...

Is there one historian whose findings support your views?
No.
Is there one whose findings contradict my views?
No.
But you keep on making fools of yourselves.
That does make me satisfied.
That does make me smug.
Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Dec 13 - 12:22 PM

And now the annoyed pig is getting nasty.