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Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II)
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Subject: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Peter T. Date: 15 Nov 99 - 05:00 PM I reluctantly add this thread, not because the last one is too long (though it is), but there seems to be something wrong with the first thread after Art's last post, which doesn't seem to allow further postings. This is just to thank Art for his posting, and hope your health improves. You are essential to us, as others have said! yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Rick Fielding Date: 15 Nov 99 - 06:16 PM Sure, why not Peter? There may be a few more relevent things (or not). I've been thinking about this a fair amount over the last couple of days, and I think I'm starting to waver a bit in my "c'mon, the more the merrier" attitude to (totally non-music) related posts. I think it's the "available time factor thing" that's making me think this way. I wouldn't begin to suggest that my idea of relevent is the acceptable norm...I love politics, and discussions on social issues, and I'm always fascinated by Catters personal takes on these. The writing is often exceptionally good. Perhaps some kind of separation of threads might be helpful. I've never objected to folks wishing that there was more music, only when it seemed (to me) that it was a put-down of others. Usually that's when I jump in. I think I participate in music related posts (and sometimes at tedious lengths) about 75 percent of the time, and that suits me fine. BUT, I think I'm really starting to understand the feelings of those who just haven't got the time to do all that separating. Who Knows? It's got me thinking though. Rick (who shouldn't make snap decisions) |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Art Thieme Date: 15 Nov 99 - 06:18 PM A favorite compliment: "Nice ass!!!" Art |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Little Neophyte Date: 15 Nov 99 - 06:21 PM To Peter and any other Mudcatter who has been around from the beginning I would love to know what it was like in the first year or two of Mudcat Cafe creation. I understand their were more music related discussions but I would like to know more about the Mudcat Evolution Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Peter T. Date: 15 Nov 99 - 06:27 PM I don't understand this complaint at all. What time does it take to separate? 0 seconds. All you have to do is scroll up the list! Is that too much of a task for people on the Internet? The Music threads are obvious as far as I can tell. They are queries, and titles, and "lyr add". Does anyone think Cat Farts is a tune (bad example: it looks as if it will be soon). So you make one or two mistakes because a title is misleading. What are we talking here: 4 seconds? It is not as if you have to open every thread to get to the music threads. I once suggested that if somebody wanted to keep a thread devoted to music that Max might devise a way (actually, why wait for Max, just do it) to put threads that someone wanted to be strictly music threads (or the other way around) in italics for ease of recognition. But almost every interesting music thread in this place is full of all kinds of other stuff. This complaint truly makes absolutely no sense to me. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Peter T. Date: 15 Nov 99 - 06:35 PM Sorry, overlapped Little Neo. I wasn't here at the beginning -- probably about 4 or 5 months into it. I have never found my first thread. But as far as I can recall, the Mudcat has always been like this, and the percentages of music vs. other stuff has not changed. What has changed is that while there used to be 10-20 threads a day, there are now usually well over a hundred. I can recall noting the day that there were 50 threads, sometime in mid 1998. What people have to wade through is the result of lots more people being here. As Yogi Berra said of his restaurant, it is so popular no one goes there anymore. Leave it alone!!!!!!!!! yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Nov 99 - 06:45 PM Well it does seem a bit crowded at times up on the index page. It would be helpful if three things were done a)people starting threads could try to be a bit more consistent in putting in the appropriate prefixes. - maybe Max could take the word "optional" out.
b)Maybe Max could add another possible prefix which people could use, if the thread they are starting doesn't fit into any existing categories. Maybe HB for Hybrid or Harebrained... b)And is it possible to adjust the filtering thingy so you fould filter out categories - so that for example when any of us are so inclined they could get rid of the BS threads and prowl around the rest making unpleasant snarly noises from time to time.(Or can we do that already, but I haven't found out how to do it?) But suggesting that there should b some formal way of culling the threads seems a bit like saying in a library - "there are two many books here - let's chuck out the ones I don't like" or in a party "there are two many people here - throw out the one's that don't look like me". Either way you'd have a fight on your hands, and serve you right.
Incidentally, I've been looking back through the archives, and it seems that this discussion has been going regularly under different headings as far back as they go. And you've always got someone saying that things were much better in the old days. Perhaps we should have another new thread prefix for this and threads about what is folk music - I suggest - TRAD ... I reckon I'd gravitate towards them, they are another much loved part of the folk process in which I like to play my part... |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Little Neophyte Date: 15 Nov 99 - 06:48 PM Thanks Peter I'm feeling bad about my last thread 'What animal best describes you'. I'm beginning to think it is meaningless trivial junk at the core of this very issue. I'm still not sure I'm left with a feeling I should not start any threads that are not music related anymore. Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Áine Date: 15 Nov 99 - 06:57 PM I'm with you, Peter T. -- What a bunch of whiney titty-babies! I ran an experiment of refreshing the forum back 7 days and it only took my 5-6 minutes to read the entire list and check (and re-check) in some cases what the threads were that interested me. I can understand Art being upset with even those 5-6 minutes, though. His minutes are much more important to him than most of ours are. And why doesn't anyone use the 'Trace' feature? If I'm really in a hurry and looking for an answer to a thread I've posted to or I'm just interested in reading, I focus on the right-hand side of my screen and only click on the ones that I've traced. This also would help all these whiney butts who keep complaining about threads dropping out of sight -- Why don't you trace them and when they go unanswered for awhile, simply 'refresh' them from your personal page? Or perhaps you guys aren't doing this because you haven't bothered to become a member of the Mudcat? Now everybody that can stand to have a good time get yourselves over to the Tavern -- there's free rum and hot salsa! -- Áine |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Lonesome EJ Date: 15 Nov 99 - 08:02 PM Hey Lilneo.. any thread that's one day old and has 33 posts is a pretty sucessful thread, and shows that most of the resident phoaks are interested. You should be proud! |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Little Neophyte Date: 15 Nov 99 - 08:15 PM Thanks Lonesome, I'm known for being too sensitive. Sometimes I feel bad for no good reason. Much Appreciated Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Nov 99 - 08:32 PM Would you like some reasons? I'm always happy to oblige a friend. How bad do you want to feel? What bothers you most--looks?personality?skills? Just say the word. Want me to give you a freebie, like....uh, OK, here...Your "tan line" in your underwear is better than the one you got in Hawaii. How was that? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Little Neophyte Date: 15 Nov 99 - 08:39 PM But I wear thongs Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Nov 99 - 09:06 PM That may be more than I needed to know.......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Lesley N. Date: 15 Nov 99 - 09:17 PM I do not usually take issue with how things are handled by anyone - I try to comport myself online with the same manners that I do in life - those being respect, restraint and tolerance. That said, "What a bunch of whiney titty-babies" and "if you don't like it get out" type of remarks are, I think, uncalled for.
We are talking about people who make a significant contribution to Mudcat. Not just Art. Bruce agrees and recall that Joe Offer made the same remark not long ago. If someone rasies a legitimate concern in their minds - whether you agree with it or not - no one should not resort to name calling and rudeness. I believe this is a more mature forum than that - where we can agree to disagree with not only manners but as friends as well.
I shouldn't speak for others, but I don't believe anyone who thinks that there are too many BS threads means it as a personal insult to those who participate and enjoy them. I apologize if I have offended anyone. I am just dismayed by the tone of a few remarks. In reading them I thought to myself, "I'm not sure I'd stay if that was directed at me." I realize one must develop a thick skin on the Internet, but I would hate to loose the company of people whose opinions and knowledge I value. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: bbelle Date: 15 Nov 99 - 09:49 PM I have resisted for two days posting to this thread because I taken enough heat for being outspoken, but a few of you have stepped on my last nerve, to coin a phrase. First of all, people like Art Thieme, Rick Fielding, Sandy Paton, and I'm sure a few whom I don't even know about, have contributed their entire adult lives to keeping folk music alive ... and deserve respect. Secondly, I joined the mudcat two years ago and the subject matter was music, with an occasional heated discussion regarding issues, e.g., gun control, censorship, to name a couple. The discussions were interesting, intelligent, thought-provoking, and many times fiery. We didn't all agree and sometimes spent too much time trying to prove our points. We did not, however, call each other names and insult one another, even though we did occasionally agree to disagree. Art had every right to start this thread and his concern is quite valid. In the last year, I have seen less and less of his posts, which is sad, to say the least. He is a fine, kind individual who dearly loves the genre of folk music, and you would do well to learn just a smidgen of the knowledge he has garnered from living his dream. Many of the people who actually had something to "say" no longer interact, which is a shame. I have been involved in folk/trad music for over 30 years and I don't have near the knowledge of the aforementioned individuals. I have taken the route of personal messaging to voice my opinion so that I don't have to deal with being called a "whinny titty baby" or whatever other adjective-of-the-day is in effect. The people to whom I have sent messages I consider friends and the bedrock of the mudcat cafe and the people with whom I will continue to communicate ... moonchild |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Lonesome EJ Date: 15 Nov 99 - 09:49 PM Thongs! Lilneo, I'm suddenly seeing you in a completely different light! :>)LEJ |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Susanne (skw) Date: 15 Nov 99 - 09:52 PM By and large, I do agree with Lesley about manners, but I took the remarks he objects to as flippant rather than bad-natured - something you can say when you know you are among friends, but rather shouldn't when you're not sure of your company. So I take it Àine feels - as we all basically do - she's among friends here. Just let it pass! As to the main topic, maybe it is a problem for those among uns who approach the music in a more scholarly fashion. There are days when I'm through the index within minutes and find myself thinking along the lines of the thread title. But, as I've said before, I don't see any difficulty in opening a thread, finding it's not what I expected, and just leaving again. Ever so often it isn't what I expected but still interesting, something I hadn't thought about before. I do tend to avoid the BS threads and am grateful for the tag, but I think the Mudcat would lose too much if we gave up on anything not directly related to the music. Maybe if those more seriously-minded contributors kept this in mind they'd be able to be a little more lenient towards those who are looking for a bit of fun on the side ... A bigger problem for me is the length of some threads, living in a country with fairly high local call charges compared to the States. I avoided the thread about the Mudcat's difficulties with the HFA in the end because it took ages to load and the messages of support, though welcome to Max no doubt, didn't tell me anything new. I may have missed something that way. I do hope not. Anyway, that's a minor problem. I'd hate the Mudcat to lose any 'lighter' threads and the people who are interested in them with it; I'd also hate to lose people like Bruce or Lesley, who have so much to contribute precisely through taking their music more seriously than most of us. (?) Sorry, no offence meant to anyone! - Susanne |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Áine Date: 15 Nov 99 - 10:50 PM Thank you, Susanne, you got it. Now, for those of you who didn't get it: (1) In Re: 'whiney titty-babies' – if after the phrases 'Want me to give you a freebie,' 'Your "tan line" in your underwear is better than the one you got in Hawaii' and (my personal favorite), 'But I wear thongs' -- you guys come after me for 'whiney titty-babies,' then, I suggest 'you turn that frown upside down' because you're taking yourselves way too seriously! (2) In all seriousness, just to make myself perfectly clear, DEAR ART, I DO NOT INCLUDE YOU IN THE ABOVE-MENTIONED GROUP. To quote myself: 'I can understand Art being upset with even those 5-6 minutes, though. His minutes are much more important to him than most of ours are.' Now, tell me please, in which part of those two sentences was I not being sensitive to Art and his ORIGINAL post? (3) And, finally, to reiterate: 'Now everybody that can stand to have a good time get yourselves over to the Tavern -- there's free rum and hot salsa!' And, to quote my friend, Lonesome EJ, 'you got to treat life like a good barbecue - when the goin' gets tough you eases up on the beans, and you bears down on the meat!' And I sincerely hope that you all realize that Everyone is welcome at the Tavern, as they are on the Mudcat -- just as it should be -- in whatever clothes they can afford, with whatever attitude they care to take and in whatever pose they care to affect. With all due respect, Áine |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Lesley N. Date: 15 Nov 99 - 11:28 PM Aine - I apologize for not seeing the context. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Bill D Date: 15 Nov 99 - 11:44 PM by the way...to read **OLD** threads sort of at random, just go to the top of the page and change the address: as in: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=15333&messages=20 change it to:..http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=27 or http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=263 etc... you can see some stuff from WAY back....(and the first thread is # 4!!...why? *shrug*) |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Bert Date: 16 Nov 99 - 10:05 AM Moonbaby, you said... "We did not, however, call each other names and insult one another,"... I dunno about that, ol' CatsP has been insulting everyone from day one;-) Luv Ya, Bert. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Rick Fielding Date: 16 Nov 99 - 01:55 PM Aw Shucks, doesn't seem to be any point in being concilliatory any more. On the other hand I kind of like the concept of being a "whiney tittie baby". Kind of comforting, with a womb-like ambience to it. I was kind of hoping that Peter T (being a long time veteran) would report back that "in the beginning" the Mudcat was a scholarly forum populated only by incredibly sincere ballad hunters who would argue for days on whether the 93rd verse of Tam Lin contained the word "firkin, Gherkin, Merkin" or perhaps just "lurkin'". I desperately hoped that the humour that abounded "BC" (before Catspaw) was on a higher plain than " is that a goode fyne broadsworde thou concealest 'neath the fowlds of thy jerkin, or mayhap thou art just happye to see me?" Darn it, seems it was just like it is today, but with 8000 fewer members. Rick (possessing skin thick enough to ward off slings and arrows.....on a good day) |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Date: 16 Nov 99 - 02:03 PM Please give us your 93 + verse version of "Tam Lin", regardless of whats in that 93rd verse. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Nov 99 - 02:22 PM "These are the good old days" . (That's a quote from a song I once heard on the telly late at night, don't know the rest but it has always struck me as very insightful.
Just you you wait and see. It always comes true. Ever hear people talking about the Blitz? Or to quote Charles Dickens (or likely enough misquote him - but he's in Public Domain now, so he counts as folk): "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times."
I reckon Mudcat is in remarkably good shape. Of course in a few years it won't be a patch on what it was back in the Good Old Twentieth Century... |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Jeri Date: 16 Nov 99 - 05:18 PM McGrath, I can hear the song in my head, but I can't think of the title. Carly Simon is singing it. I wonder if this 'rebroadcast in the cranium' is a breach of copyright. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: lamarca Date: 16 Nov 99 - 05:26 PM The song is "Anticipation", by Carly Simon, one of my favorites from the early 70's.
We can never know about the days to come
Is making me late It's keeping me wa-yay-yayi-ting... It got co-opted for a catsup commercial awhile back. Yeeccchhh.
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Nov 99 - 08:26 PM Well it might have been that, but it doesn't ring a bell. Definitely wasn't Carly Simon singing it, a much more raucous bunch. Not what you'd call folksingers. Or country singers. Or rock singers. Something in between all of that. Of course, it still might have been the same song - all I remember is that tag I quoted. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: katlaughing Date: 16 Nov 99 - 08:40 PM Here's some more of it, from a site I won't rat on:
And tomorrow we might not be together
(These are the good old days) Think we'll ever be that redundant in our lyrics? heehee |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: MAG (inactive) Date: 16 Nov 99 - 09:37 PM anybody know how to join that ballad group mentioned back in Part I? I do ballads and would like to join. Do I need a reference?? I guess only Margo and Mudjack on here have heard me sing, unless anyone from Old Town School circa '75 - '86 is on. MAG |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Angus McSweeney Date: 16 Nov 99 - 09:43 PM Greetings, fellow folk. I've been gone quite awhile (I do that), but every time I come back there is at least one good serious conversation going on. Yes, we do tend to ramble, but if this were nothing but song and lyric requests I think the Mudcat would lose its soul. This place is so much more than an "encyclopedia of songs". I'm gone for three months and I return, read a couple of these long threads and I feel caught up. Plus, and this is a BIG PLUS, how would all the wonderful personalities that reveal themselves at Mudcat ever show themselves if we were ONLY answering questions about lyrics, etc. Peter T., as usual, I agree with you completely. I admit, I am sometimes mildly annoyed at all the strange stuff in these long and winding threads, but every once in a while I am just totally, completely delighted. Once in a while I read something here that I just have to share with my friends. I'll bet I'm not alone! ...and now, I'll roll over and sleep for another three months... |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Art Thieme Date: 16 Nov 99 - 09:51 PM As I said, folks, I'm still here. You're stuck with ol' Art. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Jeri Date: 16 Nov 99 - 10:56 PM MAG, send an e-mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU In the "subject" block, enter: SUBSCRIBE BALLAD-L (your first name)(your lastname) You don't need any references - they even let me join! |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Áine Date: 16 Nov 99 - 10:57 PM Rick, my darlin', you can by my whiney titty-baby anytime. Luv ya, Áine |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Áine Date: 16 Nov 99 - 10:59 PM And Art, you can too, luv. -- Áine |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: katlaughing Date: 16 Nov 99 - 11:41 PM That "FINE Art", ya know! So FINE, we're lucky he hasn't been nabbed by some hoity-toity gallery! Art, if you come back to this...I have questions on the Pokegama Bear. see the thread I started for tomorrow's SFTD (Song for the Day), please. Angus, don't you dare go hibernate for another 3 months, man! We jist git tae see yer mug and yer outta here, agane!??? I don't think so! Step over to the Tavern and have a dram or two on me. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: _gargoyle Date: 17 Nov 99 - 11:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: lloyd61 Date: 18 Nov 99 - 11:57 AM I agree the BS threads are wasting my time, so, I turned off my computer and went to an open mike. I played my ORECK vacuum cleaner. One guy said it sounded like Cats Farts, but that did not bother me, I heard a lot Insults lately. I just ordered up my favorite Brew, Root Beer, and poured it over a donut to make a Fruit Cake. On guy said he enjoyed my set so much he is going to name his new son "Oreck". It was good to get away from the Mudcat BS threads for a while. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: catspaw49 Date: 18 Nov 99 - 12:07 PM LMAOWROTF......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: dollmaker Date: 18 Nov 99 - 02:36 PM Well, I hope someone out there can translate Spaw's encryption |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: MMario Date: 18 Nov 99 - 02:48 PM standard internet abbreviation for: Laughing my arse off while rolling on the floor |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: katlaughing Date: 18 Nov 99 - 03:57 PM Eeewwww! Lloyd! Root beer on a donut!??? Strange tastes, there, my friend.**BG**=big grin Nice ta see ya, dollmaker. |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: Art Thieme Date: 18 Nov 99 - 05:05 PM Lloyd61, I've heard it said that ORECKs, like singer/songwriters, don't always suck. If that's true, how does it pick up that damn bowling ball?? I guess, to answer my own question, you've got to turn of the electricity. But then, think about how much fun it is to "turn on" again. From one who ALWAYS INHALED and then needed the Heimlich maneuver to propel the seeds out of his windpipe, Art |
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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately (II) From: TheMuse Date: 18 Nov 99 - 06:55 PM This one sure has been worth opening lately!! ORECKs and inhaling - whew! |
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