BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!

Subject: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 05:30 AM

A licensed pub has been opened at a motorway service area.

I think this country has gone stark raving mad.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 05:53 AM

Easy. Just keep the crash barrier at 2.00pm in your sights when you drive on and you should be able to fool plod.

Actually, I agree with you Michael. Although your concept of a pub and indeed mine is of a bygone age. Now, it is family eating fun experience with ball pools when you say pub to most err.. Younger people. I reckon most would see it as a place with slightly more food on the plate than the McShit along the corridor.

Pubs used to be places where you farted, laughed loudly and bumped into tables on your way out, due to overindulgence of the falling over liquid. Now, it would be boorish, and anyway, you need to set an example to all the impressionable children running around, bumping into tables etc...

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 06:21 AM

"I think this country has gone stark raving mad."

I think you are correct. Makes ya wonder, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 06:34 AM

Trying to be fair, perhaps other passengers in the car might like a drink en route? And people could easily chuck a few cans/bottles into the boot if they're determined to booze. But my personal view is a more general one;- there's far, far too much alcohol consumed here, on motorways or elsewhere. I bet the Motorway Cops are tearing their hair out! (And they're the ones who have to knock on the door to tell a family their loved one is dead.)

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 06:45 AM

I can't really see how it will make much difference. Pubs are everywhere anyway. What is the difference whether you stop at one on a Motorway or pull off the Motorway and stop at one?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 06:53 AM

Ah yes, Dave, but it's so much easier to use the motorway service pull-ins. You don't have to leave the route. And there are all sorts of services provided, such as very easy parking, lots of toilets, selection of different food outlets, mini-supermarkets, Costa coffee bars etc. It must be quite tempting to stop and partake. I wonder if banning drink-and-drive completely would do any good? IMO one shouldn't even touch drink if one intends to get behind the wheel.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 06:59 AM

"As soon as this pub closes, the M'way pile-up starts"
With apologies to the late Alex Glasgow.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 07:10 AM

I see no problem in making drinks available to travellers.
Drivers can stick to non-alcoholic drinks, but why should their passengers, or a coachload of tourists, be prevented from having a drink with their meal? Particularly when some coach firms insist on breaks of at least half-an-hour.

If a driver wants to drink & drive there is almost always a pub within half a mile of a motorway junction. Some drivers leave the motorway to get fuel (cheaper than motorway services), they can just as easily go for a pint! (especially with sat-nav available)

Preventing food outlets serving alcohol at motorway services is a distortion of competition.
Extending the idea of a food outlet serving alcohol to an alcohol outlet serving food is such a little step.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: selby
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 07:36 AM

Surely it is down to the person,i hope you don't think people don't have drinks and drive now on motorways, urban roads and rural roads. I have recently retired and I was amazed how many of the retiree's i mix with, carry a hip flask and use it regularly then, get into cars and drive.
   Keith

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 07:59 AM

Do you happen to know which Motorway Services it is Mike? I used Charnock Richard Services on M6 on my way to and from Nelson last Thursday and I was slightly puzzled by a sign that I hadn't noticed before which read "All alcohol purchased must be consumed on the premises".
I did think at the time that apart from the moral and lawful issues surrounding drinking alcohol on the motorway I imagine that the cost of buying booze at such an establishment would prove totally prohibitive; reminding me of the old Chubby Brown quip "I stopped off at one of those Motorway Services the other day to buy a ham sandwich; well, I only had a tenner on me"

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 08:08 AM

It may be tempting, Eliza, but those who succumb to temptation are just as likely to pull off the motorway. As Nigel points out, motorway services are far more expensive than elsewhere and I suspect this pub will be no different.

As to a total ban on drink. While I agree in principle I must point out that you would also have to ban dozens of other things that affect driving as badly as, if not worse than, the current legal limit. All sorts of illness. Lack of sleep. Emotional upset. The list could go on but I think you get the picture. It is far too easy for politicians and others to go after the easy option while leaving more serious issues untouched. Let's make things safer but let's be fair about it as well.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 08:12 AM

As we Irish might say... "God be with the ould bona fide!"

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 08:15 AM

BTW - I have long been of the opinion that a much more accurate measure of fitness to drive than the testing of blood alcohol needs to be devised. I don't think a blanket percentage can be fair as there are dozens of other factors to take into account and, as I said above, there are far more things than measurable drink or drugs can affect anyone's ability to drive safely. Unfortunately I am not clever enough to come up with one, but if anyone on does they deserve a Nobel prize at least!

D.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: GUEST,Pisshead Pedestrian
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 08:20 AM

At last, a reason to finally be bothered learning to drive !!!

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 08:24 AM

···Do you happen to know which Motorway Services it is Mike? ···

According to this morning's Times, it is near J2 of the M40, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 08:54 AM

BTW - I have long been of the opinion that a much more accurate measure of fitness to drive than the testing of blood alcohol needs to be devised. I don't think a blanket percentage can be fair as there are dozens of other factors to take into account and, as I said above, there are far more things than measurable drink or drugs can affect anyone's ability to drive safely. Unfortunately I am not clever enough to come up with one, but if anyone on does they deserve a Nobel prize at least!

"See this white line on the road, please walk along it, placing one foot in front of the other without falling over."
or
"Please repeat: "The Leith police dismisseth us, and that sufficeth us"

The old methods of checking whether someone was fit to drive seemed to work, but they weren't "scientific", and didn't give a numeric value which could be quoted in court.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 09:23 AM

There are plenty of restaurants that serve alcohol on this side of the Atlantic. But there are very few if any that I would call a pub. You take a motorway to save time, you go to a pub to kill time. Preferably with people you know. The whole idea seems pointless. I don't see the market for it. Unless maybe it is for novelty. People taking selfies and blogging. "Look at me. I am in a pub at a motorway rest stop. How stark raving mad is that."

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 09:35 AM

I use motorway service stations to stop and eat my sandwiches and then have a pee. And that's it. I don't buy the crap food or drink at these places or pay the extortionate prices for the dubious privilege of doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 09:38 AM

One spokesperson said it would be a benefit for coach passengers. I can imagine how pleased the non-drinking coach driver would be to have a crowd of "well refreshed" passengers aboard!

RtS
(mind you, no couch outing in my 1950s childhood was complete without a few crates of ale for the fathers. Then "comfort stops" in a layby: "women to the left, men to the right")

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 09:49 AM

"Excuse me sir, would you please blow into this instrument? a steady breath until I tell you to stop."

"But officer, I suffer from asthma & can't provide a continuous sample"

"Okay, I'll have to ask you to provide a urine sample for testing."

"But officer, I suffer from water retention, and won't be able to supply a specimen for at least two hours."

"RIGHT: I'm referring you to our doctor for a blood sample!"

"Officer, I'm a haemophiliac, I can't give blood samples"

At this point an experienced Police Sergeant arrives on the scene, pulls a piece of chalk from his pocket, and draws a straight line on the floor: "Okay, Sunshine, Walk along this line, one foot in front of the other: And NO excuses!"

   "I can't do that officer,    I'm pissed!"

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 09:57 AM

I agree there are a myriad ways in which people are unfit to drive. Being old myself I feel I can criticise the elderly, incompetent drivers who meander all over the road and have only one speed, 40mph. Doctors are supposed to sign them as 'fit' but the doctors must be daft in some cases. I reckon dodgy old drivers are as much a hazard as drunken ones.
Is it not at all possible for folk to go 24 hrs without alcohol touching their lips? It isn't essential to life is it? Surely a car journey need not include a tipple or two? Can't understand it myself, but then, I've never enjoyed booze much, except the odd half of bitter in my youth. (Now, buttery crumpets...!)
We go on lots of coach trips, and nobody among the whole busload goes off for a drink at the services. Just coffee or tea. And a wee of course.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 10:39 AM

This one opened a few months ago. It's right next to the "park and ride" car park on the A68, the only pub within a mile of it. I presume the idea is you get on the bus out of Edinburgh at the end of your day's work and sink a few beers before weaving your way off home to the Borders. Brilliant idea.

http://www.oldcollierypubshawfair.co.uk/

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Musket
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 12:27 PM

To be fair, you have been able to get alcohol with your meal in motorway services since year dot. I suppose the term pub is the marketing pull.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 12:30 PM

Wetherspoons just opened at the Beaconsfield Services on M40, which we stop at for coffee and toilet break on monthly visit to Strat u Avon and the parents in law. I think it was opened for the Ibis hotel which is on site and I believe has conference facilities.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 12:57 PM

Yes, Musket: & I have always thought it iffy that they would sell beer & ¼-botts of wine in the restaurants at M-services. But a pub is a specifically designated drinkerie, whose primary function, by definition, is the consumption of alcohol; and however one dresses it up as gastro- or family·friendly- or whevs, its presence is a specific invitation to drink & drive.

Lunacy!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 12:59 PM

& furthermore, if it is a fully-licensed pub, as appears, it will also serve spirits, won't it? - which I believe I am right in saying the restaurants have not been licensed to do.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 01:12 PM

well the coppers will sit outside and bag people, very convenient for them, loads of people might lose their driving licences, the government will get immediate revenue from fines and then loss of revenue as drivers lose their licences and motor tax income falls, the whole thing will be a waste of everyones time, people will still be driving dangerously while sober up the motorways, car accidents will continue to happen. the only people who will benefit will be the owners of the pub, and the drivers who drive too fast on the motorways, because police will be busy copping and breathalysing people coming out of the pub.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 03:08 PM

Hadn't noticed drinks in the the restaurants but then I seldom use them. It certainly wasn't the case originally. Off sales have been available in the shops for about the last year.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 14 - 06:48 PM

The driver of a vehicle doesn't HAVE to drink alcohol. What is the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Musket
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 04:53 AM

Michael's observation that pubs are connected with drinking is fair enough, but fairer the older you get.

I am part of a family consortium, supporting a business run by my niece and family, owning a few pubs. (I don't get involved, just put a few pennies in at the beginning and patiently awaiting a dividend....) Years ago, value and attraction of pubs in advertising them for sale was based on barrellage. Now they are largely based on covers.

In other words, pubs used to be viable based on how much beer they moved, whereas now they have value on how many plates of food they serve.

I think motorway pubs send out the wrong message. On the other hand, I fail to see the difference in range of goods sold between them and motorway restaurants. I suppose the big difference will be coaches stopping off for a while etc. A minibus of football supporters may like the idea of not having to deviate from the motorway, but as with price of fuel and many people, won't like the bumped up price at the services...

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 05:15 AM

The services I use tend to offer two alternatives: tea/coffee & cake or fast food. If we are looking for something more substantial than a snack then we pull off the motorway which normally means we end up at a pub. The system we use for safe driving is that I drive before lunch and my wife drives after.

We get much better food and much better ambiance. We normally pay much less than at the services although it does annoy me that, as my wife's choice is fresh orange and tonic which counts as two mixers, her half pint of soft drink costs almost as much as my pint of beer.

A Wetherspoons pub at the services is something I might well use.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 05:25 PM

When I do gigs in England i normally travel by train, occasionally my brother drives me to gigs if it is in the south east , i would welcome wetherspoons at a services and i would use them, both food and alcohol is relatively good value at wetherspoons

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 04:22 AM


both food and alcohol is relatively good value at wetherspoons

Assuming that they charge standard Wetherspoons prices. Where I have compared prices at other branded outlets there had always been an additional mark up at the motorway services.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Musket
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 07:24 AM

Not so much markup by them, but corkage to Dept of Transport. The annual licence for a motorway services outlet is huge. Ok, they still retain their margin which makes them less value for money, but to be slightly fair to them, their costs are much more.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 08:37 AM

I wouldn't assume 'standard' Wetherspoon prices. I've paid as much as £1- per pint more at Wetherspoons airport outlets compared to the same pint in a Wetherspoon 'local'.
And presumably, those airports where the outlet is 'airside' should benefit from being Duty Free.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 08:50 AM

I'm Duty Free does not apply to domestic consumables in Canada and the USA. But in both cases for food and beverage service, large fees are paid to the airport, I suspect Ian is correct and the same rules apply over there.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 09:16 AM

This study suggests a good reason why the blood alcohol limit for drivers ought to be zero:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116084842.htm

Low levels of alcohol are much less dangerous than using a handsfree mobile phone, though. Possession of such in a vehicle ought to appropriately criminalized, in the same way that many systems criminalize possession of alcohol in a vehicle unless it's locked in the boot.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 11:21 AM

Interesting report. Just one query:
Phillips and his co-authors find that drivers with BAC 0.01 percent -- well below the U.S. legal limit of 0.08 -- are 46 percent more likely to be officially and solely blamed by accident investigators than are the sober drivers they collide with.
If, as in UK, drivers involved in two car accidents are routinely breath tested, do the 'accident investigators' know these results before, or after, they assign the sole blame? In other words, is it a self-fulfilling statistic?

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 11:25 AM

The media here reports "alcohol involved" accidents and almost never reports alcohol caused accidents. Right or wrong, there is certainly a propaganda campaign at work.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 11:50 AM

This Link from the same source tells us:
Approximately one-third of all fatal crashes each year in the U.S. involve an alcohol-impaired driver.
Again it (carefully) doesn't say whether the 'alcohol-impaired driver was responsible for the crash, or whether their 'impairment' was above or below the legal limit.
Also can you imagine if anyone decided to report the same facts with a different slant?
"Two-thirds of all fatal crashes involve only drivers who are stone-cold sober"

Of course, none of these figures mean a thing if we don't know what percentage of all drivers are a)abstemious b)slightly 'buzzed' but within legal limits c) over the legal limit.

Subject: RE: BS: M-way pub opens!!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 12:18 PM

On the other hand when some pissed or doped teenager maanges to kill himself by driving stupidly fast the solution proposed is always to cut the speed limit.