BS: Empathy and the brain

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 12:32 PM

Spaw, fuck you.
Now I'm imagining these posts in the voices of Pinky and the Brain. I've found them on YouTube and landed on the second episode of "Brainwashed" which is basically Pinky & the Brain do the Prisoner.
...and I need to do stuff.
NARF!

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Janie
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 01:20 PM

MtheGM, I'm not sure what you mean by "respectable" research.

I don't think the tools exist to come close to objectively measuring or observing the varied but considerable reported anecdotal phenomena that currently get labeled telepathy exist. There is research. The quality of that research, for any number of reasons, is such that none of it can be considered "respectable" from the standpoint of being able to draw any conclusions from it. Some of it may barely pass muster to suggest areas for further study or to suggest ways to tweak the experimental design or the tools to measure and repeat to offer some hope that the next experiment may have slightly more validity, and therefore suggest further refinements.

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Janie
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 01:30 PM

I didn't keep up with other posts before my last. If I had done so, I would have posted "What Bill D said."

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 01:38 PM

Janie, I beg to differ slightly. I have read the results of controlled experiments at respected universities. Though none recent. I would consider them "respected" and though, it is not conclusive, I find the fact that none have found peer reproducible evidence of telepathy compelling.   MtheGM, I think that the reason that such things are not being currently studied on a large scale is the lack of results in previous experiments.

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 01:43 PM

CatSpaw49, While I agree with you that this thread is not as brilliant as the pinnacle of evolution of the 2D smartarsed cartoon which is "Pinky and The Brain." Few things are.


I do find that Ed T's thread stacks up quite nicely against various bodily emission and genitalia threads which have been initiated by certain members of this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 01:47 PM

> Sheldrake can surely not be the only academic interested in the matter.

"Interested" is not the same as "able to take time from one's career and seek financial support for research that is more likely to be denied funding, make one look foolish, sidetrack or derail one's career, and be misrepresented in the press while it's going on; than it is to lead to significant results that will prove one was an Einsteinian genius all along."

Twenty years ago Sheldrake suggested experiments which, he predicted, could "change the world." Two decades later, the world looks pretty much the same except for smart phones and the Net.

I don't know if anyone has carried out Sheldrake's experiments, but if they haven't it's because they don't see any future in them.

In the '80s a pair of very reputable scientists believed they had discovered a simple method of creating cold fusion energy. It would be super-cheap, probably safe, and virtually inexhaustible. The long-sought, theoretically plausible, Holy Grail.

When they published their findings, after enormous hype which they unfortunately encouraged, nobody could replicate the experiment, which looked increasingly flawed.

The upshot was that they were roundly ridiculed by late-night comedians and a few smartass colleagues. They didn't lose their jobs, but they were made to look like fools because their results could not be reliably repeated.

J.B. Rhine's ESP experiments at Duke University over forty years very occasionally yielded spectacular results. But nobody could replicate them, and it was shown how the handful of stupendously telepathic subjects could well have cheated.

Sheldrake's followers would have to prepare to martyr themselves for ideas that, at least in theory, are murkier and less plausible than was cold fusion and as unprovable as Rhine's supposed findings.

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Janie
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 02:43 PM

Good points, Lighter.

I happen to live near the Rhine Center and have worked with some people involved. What is missing among them, imho, is a healthy skepticism, but what person seeking a successful career and needing to make a living could or would pursue such research unless they already had a strong, undocumented belief or a trust fund to live on as they pursue their research? Problem is, their belief interferes with the design of their experiments and the objectivity with which they evaluate the experimental design and therefore the conclusions at which they arrive. They would serve themselves and the scientific community better if the researchers themselves more objective in their own evaluations of their experimental designs and the results. Shooting themselves in the foot.

Still, it is possible that eventually their flawed findings will be perused by some more objective researcher who will find a seed worth germinating and write a grant that will get funded. Even missteps sometimes eventually lead forward.

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 04:52 PM

Well I'm sure most atheist have "prayed" sometimes Jack....I know I have and I think I'm beginning to like it    :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 05:38 PM

Thanks, Janie. There is, of course, no way to tell what may be discovered in the future or how.

And there are certainly practical limits to what may be discovered - or even searched for - at any given time.

It was probably historically impossible for even a super-genius like Isaac Newton to have even *conceived* of something like quantum physics. And if he had, he'd have no way of formulating a theory. And if he did that, he'd have been thought crazy. And if he'd believed in it passionately, with the zero evidence available to him, he probably would have *been* crazy.

What people often overlook is that in science, errors of procedure can be worse than errors of fact. A mistaken "fact" can be remedied by observation. But an erroneous procedure that builds error upon error and which is accepted because the supposed results are appealing ("I want Nessie to be real!") is the road to superstition and arbirary belief.

So any chain of evidence has to be constructed meticulously and step by step. Scientific standards of fact are actually higher than those in murder trials, where findings are beyond a "reasonable doubt." In physical and natural sciences, findings are only accepted and built upon as "fact" if they're beyond all but capricious or ignorant doubt ("I don't believe in evolution because all those evolutionary biologists could be stupid or lying").

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 06:05 PM

From Darwin to Akatar ... "these powers were needed for survival."

BullSheets to both gnu and akenaton.

I have a dear friend, who, like you, believes she has "the insight."
She will rattle off a half dozen proofs; examples, recent and past.

What I fail to mention to her, (because I have empathy) is that she makes perhaps two hundred "predictions" each year. Six hits in 80 years. Over 10,000 false insights.

WHY are your claims B.S.?
You are aware, cognizant, informed, of a situation.
It is happenstance, with prior knowledge, that you make a connection.
You forget the dozen times a day, for years on end, that you thought and forgot. The unusual coinsidence makes the situation remain in your mind.

I will mention, the friend has a 5th grade education, survived WWII bombings, and occupations by both sides, and experienced her brother "blown up" by an Allied bomb. This adds to "her credibility as a reliable witness of ESP."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle



Answer this...with 100,000's of millions miles traveled...Why do vehicles "break down" in the 30 meter rail road crossings?

Check this out. Engineer and brakeman lived. Follow the pics.


4.bp.blogspot.com/-j6AAwx0OJLg/UtQ6yuy6XYI/AAAAAAAAego/J_3NCFw84EE/s1600/1a.jpg



A CN train hit a log truck on the Redditt sub (between Winnipeg MB and Sioux Lookout ON) at Sunstrum, ON (mile 38). Lead unit was the 5146 a GMDL SD40.

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Janie
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 06:20 PM

Again, well said, Lighter. I appreciate the capacity you, Bill D., and several others have to be clear and concise. Maybe it will one day rub off on me:>) Would certainly save some bandwith, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 06:33 PM

gargoyle

I don't see how you can apply the case of your "Dear friend" to Akenaton and Gnu. Have you seen them make "perhaps two hundred "predictions" each year." I don't think so. It seem presumptuous of you simply to assume that they do. Gnu is an engineer and Akenaton is organized in his communications here. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that if what you are accusing them of was the case they would have called "bullsheets" on themselves long ago. You can doubt what they are saying or express skepticism about such claims in general. But implying that they are lying based on your interpretation of a third party makes me want to call Bullsheets on you. Are you sure you do not want to reconsider your post?

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 02:41 AM

Your mind is your life....but you are not your mind...think of your mind as a transponder..or a modem..that hooks up to the 'Big Internet', or the collective consciousness. Think of mankind as one living organism, of which we are each cells of that body. Think of all politics as a cancer of the cells, dividing and growing as a radical tumor. Think of 'religion' as not exercising the cells, and replacing the input of the collective consciousness with the anemia of thinking the cell 'isn't good enough'.....Think of people that argue over politics and religion, and foment divisions among the body of mankind, as toxins in the body, feeding the cancer.....

Snap now, and avoid the rush!

GfS

P.S....and you probably don't get it!

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 04:46 AM

Gargoyle...I understand your point, there are people who say, when I phone them, "Oh that's really weird, I was just thinking about you".

They've usually got water pouring through their ceilings, after a storm! :0)

I've only had about four or five experiences like the one I described in my life, but they all involved serious matters and extreme stress.

The one I spoke about earlier, followed the usual pattern, feeling agitated, very stressful(unusual for me), then blurting out my thoughts to my wife at about 3 am. She was annoyed at being wakened and told me not to be so daft and go back to sleep.
3 hrs later we were informed of the accident, which happened at around 3 am.......That is the truth, no bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:03 PM

Back in January of 2014, GfromS said:

Your mind is your life....but you are not your mind...think of your mind as a transponder..or a modem..that hooks up to the 'Big Internet', or the collective consciousness. Think of mankind as one living organism, of which we are each cells of that body. Think of all politics as a cancer of the cells, dividing and growing as a radical tumor. Think of 'religion' as not exercising the cells, and replacing the input of the collective consciousness with the anemia of thinking the cell 'isn't good enough'.....Think of people that argue over politics and religion, and foment divisions among the body of mankind, as toxins in the body, feeding the cancer.....

Snap now, and avoid the rush!

GfS

I don't know what he (or she, as the case may be) thinks all of that means, but when you examine it, it amounts only to a bunch of speculative metaphors, which can't result in a rational conclusion even if the metaphors are well taken.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:31 PM

Good to see this thread back......now could this be a psychic connection between UncleDave0 and I.......but just the day before I decided the next episode of my Musical Therapy radio program was going to do was going to be about Empathy.

Which, I know, has nothing to do with what this topic ended up leading into.   But that doesn't matter.

I can empathize with those who felt that connection. (thanks to my mirror neurons).

Subject: RE: BS: Empathy and the brain
From: Musket
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 03:07 AM

I must have missed this thread first time around. I usually love a good giggle.

To the list of words being bandied around, I would love to add "gullibility." I notice that "coincidence" raised its head but for reasons unknown, it drifted off because everybody loves the unknown and absurd.

Occam's razor suggests shared genes, subconscious observation, probability and recall of coincidence.

I'll have to go. My telepathic powers suggest a couple of sausages, rasher of bacon and an egg are calling me from the fridge.

Good morning.