BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread

Subject: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 06:15 PM

Well, the "Creationism" thread is closed due to a series of bickering one-liner name-calling posts, but I'd still like to see the lyrics of Pete's "Mungo Man" song posted here so I can comment on it properly.

How about it, Pete?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 06:17 PM

Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 09:33 AM

Try the Darwin's Wittnesses thread. Pete published the song lyrics there.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 01:18 PM

Here is the Darwin thread http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=153464&messages=205&page=4

CBA to make a blicky.

The song lyrics are not on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 01:22 PM

Publication? No!
Posted? Yes

Mudcat's posts are not peer-reviewed.   Hmmm, calling all peers....




(I must have MS spell-check operational. Mudcat gets the red underline. Mud cat is accepted.)

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:31 PM

Look, I've just been back to the thread, and pasted it ALL out to a "word" document, and searched for "mungo" "word" and "lyric". No sign of pete's song words. Maybe it's whatever the opposite of "creationism" is. "Decomposition" perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:35 PM

There was a cremationist thread that was closed down because of name calling and bickering ?

Since I am an advocate of  cremation, versus burial of the dead - I find the news of this Mudcat muzzling of after life viewpoints most disturbing.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:49 PM

Q, you can add it to your spell check dictionary.

Pete mentioned the song in the cretinist thread, but apparently never posted the lyrics there. (Read: I can't find 'em)

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:16 PM

Pete mentioned the song in the cretinist thread....

Now, we're getting to the heart f the matter. Those who espouse creatioais bullshit are, indeed, cretins.

Thanks, Jeri.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:26 PM

Is 'creatioais' French?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:33 PM

""Studies in the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise found that muscle fibers grow when a person takes creatine.""

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:35 PM

It's Mungo, Jeri.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:09 PM

What, no Griddle, bone?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 05:09 PM

s 'creatioais' French?

Oui. And its also 14 karat bullshit.

Get a grip, Jeri.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:11 PM

Guest: Try the Darwin's Wittnesses thread. Pete published the song lyrics there.

No he didn't.

Still waiting, Pete!

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:24 PM

French conjugation

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 09:11 PM

My apologies, Rob.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 09:59 PM

No worries Guest. I hope Pete will "put his words where his convictions are" but not holding my breath for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 06:44 AM

Actually, I did post some of same yesterday, but for some reason the post is not received,lost,deleted......dunno!            When you play the dating game...it is,nt what it seems....understanding technique....you could be reading reams......think they got it cut an dried.....then they hit a snag.....thought it done an dusted.....but it is not in the bag......the dry flat plain where once a lake...presenting now a different sight...new South Wales Australia....a semi arid desert blight.....skeletal fragments,crushed and burnt....suggest, perhaps a burial rite....find was tagged lake mungo one....but more than this would come to light.............interpreted as female....and c14 dated...nineteen thousand yr on bone....and to this related...soft tissue test was older yet....twenty five thou seven hundred stated.....oldest human burial claim...but it gets more complicated.............chorus, do mungo man fit mungo woman...in their ages an their places in the dating game...will they ever reach a resolution, when the dating they been given is not the same.....they can push back the past, they can change their mind...participating in the dating game..............will try do more later assuming it takes this time and a civil discussion..........................................................................................observations, you were angry but were apparently unable to recall anything specific in the song that excited your anger!?............most of the song relates to essentially the facts, which I x checked on wiki etc.   any complaint against that ,I think would be superficial. The conclusions in the intro,outro,chorus follow from the facts. There is some word play in same.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:29 AM

Part two.       Testing done on nearby charcoal....gave an age, being older yet....mungo woman lay just below this....thus the dating must be reset.....she was found in 69...but forward now yr 74 ...mungo man find same sand bed...assume same dating,that's for sure............a man called bowler, another called Thorne...unearth together, mungo find...but as the course of yrs fly by...togetherness is less inclined...bowler used in 98 ....thermoluminesence test.... 42 thousand yr was read....older yet he thought it best.........former c 14 date...supposed correct and best obtained...set aside in favour of one with much more zeros gained....then it was in 99 ...Thorne and other scientists....comprehensive study making...62 thousand yr insist..........sampling done on bone and sand....as other tastings were employed....mungo man gaining greater age....but bowler thought it null and void....bowler would not toe the party line....claiming complex lab results....must agree with former field work.....this agreement difficult..............dating game is so uncertain.   Not as sure as some suggest.....they may argue on the detail.....but as you may have guessed.......any other doubt is simply unexpressed.                            Civil discussion welcomed, any other may be ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:51 AM

French conjugation

Huh? And here's me thinking there were only 69 positions...

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:15 AM

What on earth are you trying to say, pete? Science progresses by formulating a hypothesis and testing it. If the tests show the hypothesis to be incorrect then it must be reformulated. Your problem with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Musket
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:36 AM

Reads like rap.

Seems to be a c missing somewhere. Can you help me find it?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:59 AM

Not in agreement with the sentiments, but in the interest of making the lyrics readable:

I leave it to pete to provide correct stanza separation and punctuation.




Mungo Man

When you play the dating game
it is,nt what it seems
understanding technique
you could be reading reams
think they got it cut an dried
then they hit a snag
thought it done an dusted
but it is not in the bag
the dry flat plain where once a lake
presenting now a different sight
new South Wales Australia
a semi arid desert blight
skeletal fragments,crushed and burnt
suggest, perhaps a burial rite
find was tagged lake mungo one
but more than this would come to light
interpreted as female
and c14 dated
nineteen thousand yr on bone
and to this related
soft tissue test was older yet
twenty five thou seven hundred stated
oldest human burial claim
but it gets more complicated

chorus, do mungo man fit mungo woman
in their ages an their places in the dating game
will they ever reach a resolution, when the dating they been given is not the same…..
they can push back the past, they can change their mind…
participating in the dating game.

Testing done on nearby charcoal
gave an age, being older yet
mungo woman lay just below this.
thus the dating must be reset
she was found in 69
but forward now yr 74
mungo man find same sand bed
assume same dating,that's for sure.
a man called bowler, another called Thorne
unearth together, mungo find
but as the course of yrs fly by.
togetherness is less inclined
bowler used in 98
thermoluminesence test.
42 thousand yr was read
older yet he thought it best.
former c 14 date
supposed correct and best obtained
set aside in favour of one with much more zeros gained
then it was in 99
Thorne and other scientists
comprehensive study making
62 thousand yr insist
sampling done on bone and sand
as other tastings were employed
mungo man gaining greater age
but bowler thought it null and void
bowler would not toe the party line
claiming complex lab results
must agree with former field work
this agreement difficult.
dating game is so uncertain.   
Not as sure as some suggest
they may argue on the detail
but as you may have guessed.
any other doubt is simply unexpressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Stu
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:40 PM

Blimey.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Musket
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:42 PM

We should enter him in The Eurovision Song Contest!

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 03:20 PM

OK, I can't do anything about the scansion, but…



Mungo Man

When you play the dating game it isn't what it seems
understanding technique you could be reading reams
think they got it cut and dried then they hit a snag
thought it done and dusted but it is not in the bag
the dry flat plain where once a lake presenting now a different sight
new South Wales Australia a semi arid desert blight
skeletal fragments, crushed and burnt suggest, perhaps a burial rite
find was tagged lake mungo one but more than this would come to light
interpreted as female and c14 dated
nineteen thousand years on bone and to this related
soft tissue test was older yet twenty five thou seven hundred stated
oldest human burial claim but it gets more complicated

chorus,
do mungo man fit mungo woman in their ages and their places in the dating game
will they ever reach a resolution, when the dating they been given is not the same
they can push back the past, they can change their mind participating in the dating game.

Testing done on nearby charcoal gave an age, being older yet
mungo woman lay just below this thus the dating must be reset
she was found in 69 but forward now year 74
mungo man find same sand bed assume same dating,that's for sure.
a man called bowler, another called Thorne unearth together, mungo find
but as the course of years fly by togetherness is less inclined
bowler used in 98 thermoluminesence test.
42 thousand year was read older yet he thought it best.
former c 14 date supposed correct and best obtained
set aside in favour of one with much more zeros gained
then it was in 99 Thorne and other scientists
comprehensive study making 62 thousand year insist
sampling done on bone and sand as other tastings were employed
mungo man gaining greater age but bowler thought it null and void
bowler would not toe the party line claiming complex lab results
must agree with former field work this agreement difficult.
dating game is so uncertain.   Not as sure as some suggest
they may argue on the detail but as you may have guessed.
any other doubt is simply unexpressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 06:56 PM

Thanks for posting the lyrics Pete....and even more thanks to Beardedbruce for taking the trouble to make them readable!

Just starting my working day here in Sakhalin, and it'll be a long one, so it'll be a while before I can get around to discussing the lyrics, but I'll do it asap!

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 06:58 PM

Yup - a good job of putting absolute bullshit to music. Cudos.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 05:01 AM

Buggered if I can make any sense of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:01 AM

Does pete from away with the fairies think that the "Mungo Man" finds somehow invalidate scientific methods? Or what?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:11 AM

I've just spent twenty minutes trying and failing to fit the words to the tune of Humpty Dumpty. Didn't work: the tune was far too profound.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:11 AM

Lyrics were requested by OP.

What Pete thinks is his own business- but this IS a music forum, and discussion OF THE SONG is appropriate.


I sing and enjoy a number of songs that I do not believe the words are true to reality - the SONGS are still good.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:15 AM

Seems to fit Rigs of the Time with a lot of cramming, though it could do with a refrain after every fourth line : honesty's all out of fashion! Or, better still, how about refraining altogether?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:31 AM

Jack B,

I think that 4 line stanzas, followed by the chorus, would be a little long for today's performers.

That would be 8 stanzas, and 8 times through the chorus! ( and require work on the last stanza, which would'n be a bad idea)

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:58 AM

The whole thing is a bad idea. If I heard someone sing that at a session I'd probably shoot them - or myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 11:07 AM

discussion OF THE SONG is appropriate.

Per discussiion so far, seems the general opinion is the "song"[sic] is crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 05:53 PM

I rather suspect that a similar song affirming your beliefs or questioning mine would be applauded by you. Apart from Richard thinking I am attacking the scientific method, little substance so far!I

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:01 PM

Not so, Pete.

The problem is your affirming absolute unverifiable bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:03 PM

Well, it does rhyme, but it's kinda wordy. This may present a challenge for lyric recall, especially after an ale or two?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 02:20 AM

We'll Greg, the point of the song is that dating methods are not verifiable, though I would not go so far as to call them b...........!    Of course they might be accurate if they corresponded with recorded history!                      Yes, ed , it is wordy, but hopefully the general point is made, that whereas people may have the idea that there is a high degree of agreement between methods, and scientists all accept the same dates, that in fact there are widely different opinions.   I could have said as much with a shorter song.......but it would have less info to be verified!

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:57 AM

Pete, I gave it a quick try at dewording a section, just for fun.
As you see, some fine detail is lost, but the gain in making it interesting lyrics may be greater?
Anyway, it surely remains a work in progress.

the dating game's, not what it seems
figuring it out, could take us reams
It's cut and dried, then hits a snag
done and dusted, not in the bag
where was a lake, now none's in sight
now new South Wales' a desert blight
named lake mungo, more come to light
are burnt remains, a burial rite?
tagged a female and cabon dated
nineteen thousand years, to this related
tissue tests added more, twenty five thou seven hundred stated
oldest burial claim, it gets more complicated

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 12:32 PM

So, pete, in the example you chose to form the basis of your song, there was (according to you) some uncertainty and disagreement over the possible dates that could be attributed to the relevant materials. So what conclusions do you draw from this - particularly with respect to the evolution vs creation 'debate' that you're so obsessed with?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 12:59 PM

Pete don't "draw conclusions" - he blindly believes.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 05:29 PM

Pretty good, ed. but what I wrote fits fairly well with the tune I composed......the first bit is a slow intro before the main verses. Admittedly there were some lines where I had to work on phrasing to hopefully still flow but still try to be accurate as possible .thanks for the interest..                I am sure , shimrod that you can work that one out for yourself!. And I am obsessed with it? Well, I suppose you could put it like that. I,m concerned for you and others when you stand before god........what is your reason for your obsession in opposing me?....and don't give me that irrelevant tea party stuff, please.      Biblical creation goes back to the church fathers. It is not the recent innovation that joe thinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 02:31 AM

"I am sure , shimrod that you can work that one out for yourself!"

I'm not sure that I can, pete. You see, I suspect that everything you write displays a very basic misunderstanding of the nature of science. What I can't work out is whether this lack of understanding is because you really don't understand it or because you have wilfully chosen to misunderstand it.

The uncertainty over the dates of the 'Mungo man' material does not, as you seem to think, automatically discredit the scientific methods used to investigate it - it's a conundrum which needs to be resolved - and it may or may not be resolved. That's science for you - it's open-ended and open-minded - unlike religion! And I come back to the point that I have made to you, over and over again, if the science is 'wrong' that does not, automatically, make the Bible 'right' - that is false logic.

Thank you for your concern, but I'll take my chances with God. Convincingly demonstrate to me that God exists and I might decide to take your concern more seriously.

Finally, I submit that the "tea party stuff" is not irrelevant. There is a tide of irrationality sweeping through the most powerful nation on earth and it has a very worrying political dimension that could affect us all.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:54 AM

That's a very good post, Shimrod. The only change I'd make would be a small "g" for "god".

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Stu
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 07:50 AM

"I,m concerned for you and others when you stand before god"

Don't be. I've a whole slew of questions for god and look forward to having an in-depth discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 09:05 AM

Thanks Richard.

Note that I'm trying very hard (and sometimes failing) to be respectful to pete and his religion - hence the capital 'G'. All I've been trying to do is, mainly, to question his extreme religious views. I note that he's not often able to answer my questions - which leads me to believe that his faith is uncritical and unquestioning.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 09:41 AM

"I note that he's not often able to answer my questions - which leads me to believe that his faith is uncritical and unquestioning."

You'd better believe it Shim. The only answers he can ever give you, are based on the crap he swallows whole from creationist websites.

He studiously avoids reading anything which might force him to think.

For Pete it's a case of "Don't confuse me with facts! I already know what I believe."

My one regret is that there will be no opportunity for any of us to say "We told you so!"