Smartphones at sessions

Subject: Smartphones at sessions
From: Marje
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:00 PM

Reading through the thread about the use of song books and electronic devices reminded me of a somewhat different issue that is now arising. Some people who attend music and song sessions have their smartphones on, and while others are playing or singing, they sit there twiddling at their phones, reading e-mails, texting or Facebooking.

Amd I alone in finding this extremely rude? I'm not talking about people who just happen to be in the pub or sitting in the background, I'm talking about musicians and singers who are at times active participants in the session.

If someone needs to make or receive a text or check for an urgent e-mail, I'd prefer it if they left the gathering and took themselves off into a corner to deal with whatever the matter is. Then they should switch off their gadget and engage properly with the shared experience of the session and with the people around them.

I don't think there's anything that can be done about it except to say here that I HATE this behaviour. Does anyone think it's acceptable?

Marje

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST,twerp
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:15 PM

Spot on Marje

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: alex s
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:17 PM

I couldn't agree more - I had to tell someone to stop using his phone as he was sitting texting right next to....Jez Lowe!

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:30 PM

All 'bad behaviours' are acceptable in moderation. Chatting, texting, drumming a bit out of time or whatever. I think it only becomes a real issue when whatever it is genuinely - and consistently - impinges on the enjoyment of other participants.

As for smartphones in particular, I'm not sure why people who feel compelled to continually study their Facebook updates, even bother attending other forms of entertainment at all? At the cinema it's such a drag to have your eyes pulled away from the action by a brightly lit screen sat in front of you. Ugh!

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Crowhugger
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:51 PM

I find smartphones bothersome if the room is generally dark. As long as there is no offending sound (please set keying beeps to "off") and the glow isn't in noticeable contrast to the ambient lighting, no problem. For rooms kept darker during performances, it would indeed be lovely if the venue would reserve a few seats or tables at the back for e-fidgeters where the jiggling thumbs and lights won't be a distraction but to each other. I include phone-videorecording as a form of e- fidgeting.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 02:06 PM

I once kept half an eye on the whole second half of an England match on my iPhone. A goal precipitated a quick blast of Match Of The Day. :-) I need to be able to keep in touch when I'm in the pub as we live in a very remote area and we're not spring chickens. There is no phone signal so I rely on the pub's free wifi to pick up messages. No-one objects. Why would they (Well, the footie maybe, as they're all rugby nuts in Cornwall!). Stuff like this isn't going away, so let's live with it.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 02:07 PM

The volume was off during the match, by the way.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 02:09 PM

At some sessions, I have mine on the table set to the bus information app so I can tell how long I've got before I have to pack up and go. Anybody offended by that can get stuffed.

I don't feel any need to check on other media but I'm not bothered if other people do it.

I don't mind being filmed either, but NO VIDEO LIGHTS.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 02:20 PM

Not only are our local Town Council Meetings recorded and made available as a podcast on local internet radio - as if anyone is really interested!! Worse still, certain people tweet constantly from local Town Council Meetings like obsessed demons!

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 02:22 PM

Am I alone in finding this extremely rude?

No, that's the me generation/millenials for ya though. Nobody matters but themselves.

All 'bad behaviours' are acceptable in moderation.

Nonsense. Being a little obnoxious is still being abnoxious.

I don't think there's anything that can be done about it...

Nonsense. Call them on it & Tell them to knock it off as loudly as necessary.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:19 PM

l go to a lot of music only sessions and l've never seen this situation arise because all the musicians are involved with what is going on, however sing arounds tend to showcase one person at a time (apart from the odd chorus)and unless they're worth listening to it's all too easy to become distracted.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:19 PM

l go to a lot of music only sessions and l've never seen this situation arise because all the musicians are involved with what is going on, however sing arounds tend to showcase one person at a time (apart from the odd chorus)and unless they're worth listening to it's all too easy to become distracted.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:20 PM

Dear Advice Columnist,

Every time I hear the word smartphone I think proctology. Is this something I should be ashamed of?

Confused in Des Moines


Dear Confused,

Only insofar as it's simpler to say would you please shove that phone up your!

Advice

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:38 PM

I

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:58 PM

Oy!

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 07:19 PM

If, with consideration, a smart phone is used to record a session, I can see how that would be useful to increase repertoire. But texting or reading a document rather than paying attention to what's going on musically and not showing respect for the people who are performing is inexcusable, a practice which is not only rude but socially detrimental and disrespectful of
folk music in general.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 08:33 PM

That's what shandy pots are for, baptising smartphones in. Waste of good beer otherwise.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 08:51 PM

But texting or reading a document rather than paying attention to what's going on musically and not showing respect for the people who are performing is inexcusable

Yebbut what if they suddenly start playing Breton or French-Canadian or bluegrass crap instead of Irish! Surely a bit of texting is excusable in such dire circumstances!

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 06:07 AM

It would be a LOT more politeto leave a session if the music is not to your taste than to fart about on a Fartphone when someone is performing

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Marje
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 06:29 AM

Thank you for the responses so far. So (on balance) I'm not going mad or becoming a boring old fart.

I don't expect people to be utterly attentive all the time they're not actually playing or singing - sometimes there are quiet conversations (often music-related) going on during a tune, for example. But at least that is still engaging and bonding with the people who are present in the room, rather than with people and events elsewhere.

Those who defend the habit might like to consider the "What-if-everyone-did-it?" argument. Imagine a session or a club where all those who were not actually playing or singing at any given moment chose to start reading Facebook, checking the football score or texting their friends. We'd lose the whole social cohesion and "crack", and the sense of shared experience that we (presumably) came there to enjoy.

Controlling it, though, is tricky. If it's a club, the MC could try to lay down some rules, but in an open session in a bar there's not much you can do - or is there? I do run a pub session, and am considering, next time I send an e-mail to remind people of the date, suggesting that they refrain from unnecesssary noodling on gadgets. Would that be acceptable to most of you who attend such sessions?

Marje

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 08:59 AM

I don't think it happens enough to be worth making offputting rules about.

The people who are most likely to get involved in their phones are also the ones least likely to accept the rules - semi-pro types texting about a gig later in the week.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST,Joe 90
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:10 AM

So, bearing in mind the usual gradual process of covert intelligence agency security technology
eventually trickling down into specialist gadget shops..

is there not yet a readily available smartphone signal scrambling device,
functional over a localised vicinity - ie. a Pub, or Social Club ????

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:30 AM

Oldies can look up forgotten lyrics on their smartphones

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Stu
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:39 AM

Can't see the problem myself, and I don't think you can ever stop it.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST,Kittybriton
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:40 AM

Like Stu I don't think you can hope to stop it, but I do think it's impolite. All I can suggest is give it some thought and see if you can find a way to deter folks from fiddling while you're on stage.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:47 AM

I was more than a little depressed to learn that smartphones were being used on a regular basis as an aide-memoir fro singers.
I thought reading from a text was bad enough, but this.... jeeeze
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 11:23 AM

and I don't think you can ever stop it.

Particulary if folks don't complain!

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 12:23 PM

When the whole culture of sessions and singarounds is largely seen by the public as an anorakish hobby of grumpy old moaners, it doesn't help to start laying down the law over trivia and prove them right.

If you want to stop people looking at their phones, up your performance to a level where that's all they want to pay attention to. If your song can't compete with Facebook, the problem is not with Facebook.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 01:59 PM

Where does knitting on stage if you are the singer while the rest of the band play instrumentals come into this ?

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST,tapo
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 02:06 PM

Like talking in a session when people are playing, it's quite simply bad manners.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 02:06 PM

If you want to stop people looking at their phones, up your performance to a level where that's all they want to pay attention to

So its OUR fault that techno-addicted self-absorbed narcissistic clods are techno-addicted self-absorbed narcissistic clods?

Amusing. In a pathetic sort of way.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 03:04 PM

I think CS said something above that's worth repeating: All 'bad behaviours' are acceptable in moderation. Chatting, texting, drumming a bit out of time or whatever. I think it only becomes a real issue when whatever it is genuinely - and consistently - impinges on the enjoyment of other participants.

And that's the truth.

My mother-in-law lived with us until she died. In her last couple of years, we had to have a phone with us the few times we were able to go out together, and it was important for us to be able to answer calls or texts immediately. People who have kids may have an even more pressing need to keep in touch.

And yes, some people do Facebook and other distracting stuff - but there are also many legitimate needs for using phones at sessions.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 03:39 PM

Context is everything. I rest my case.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 05:54 PM

People who have kids may have an even more pressing need to keep in touch.

And how did hunanity ever manage to survive, raise kids, and care for elderly relatives before cell phones existed?

And 99% of the techno-adddicts on the face of the earth have absolutely NO need for minite-to-minute "communication". They only think they're that important and essential.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Marje
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:29 AM

What I'm talking about is the compulsive, repeated checking of e-mails or Facebook and exchanging of texts throughout the evening.

Jack: I'm not talking about being "on stage". I'm talking about a group of musicians and singers sitting around in a bar together to make music. But if I'm attenidng a club with a stage, I'd be delighted if the MC were to suggest that the audience shoud have the courtesy to give the perfomers their full attention. You don't sit in a club and openly read the paper or do the crossword, or get out your laptop, so why is a smartphone any better?

And Joe, as I've said earlier, anyone who has an urgent need to make or answer a call can easily move away into a corner and concentrate on that for as long as it takes. That's not a problem. But if your kids or your elderly relative need to be in contact every five minutes, they really need someone at home with them.

And no, it doesn't happen often - yet - and that's why I am minded to make some comment about it now. Once a few people start to do it regularly, it gets a bit personal for anyone object to it.

Smartphones can be helpful, though: you can get an app to deliver your chosen note, like a pitchpipe. And a metronome app. And - best of all - an app that responds to a note and tells you its pitch. We tried this at an unaccompanied session I go to, and established that the bell that sits on the bar is in G#, so now we can use the bell to find our starting note (does upset the bar staff, though, when we ring it for this purpose!).

Marje

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:37 AM

Relating to a similar thread... People leafing through books deciding what they are going to sing next whilst you are singing gets my goat. I might just tether it to the back of their car....

My phone did once go off whilst a friend was singing, which was rather embarrassing, as I thought I had switched it to vibrate. There are certain things I have to be 24/7 available for, but there are also ways of being discreet.....

Thinking on, I once said a song had been written in 1959, and at the end of the song some pedantic pillock, in all seriousness rather than fun had looked it up and was so proud of himself when he loudly corrected me. It was 1958.

I tend to run out of goats now and then....

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:49 AM

I agree with Marje. It irritates me no end to see people sitting there Facebooking, texting etc while someone else is singing, plainly not giving the singer even a fraction of their attention (have just made same point on the other thread). It is just plain rude, and I'm becoming a GOW.
If people must have their phones visible to receive important messages, including bus times, family emergencies etc, then if the phone does go off (silently please) move away to answer it, as Marje also suggested.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:42 AM

I see smartphones and tablets now being used as backing tracks, tuners, lyric cribs, set lists all the time at local open mic sessions, as well as cameras. Musicians also use them instead of wristwatches to time sets. For a long time I've noticed the first thing musicians do after coming off stage is switch their phones back on and check for calls (has my agent fixed me that Albert Hall gig?).

RtS
(You don't call, you don't write...)

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:23 AM

I once had a young chap at a session/singaround I run look up a song he obviously had never heard of before on his smartphone. He then proceeded to sing it to a tune of his own devising. It was awful. Everyone there cringed. At the the of the session I spoke quietly to him and said that it wasn't on - he was welcome to the session, but had to have the courtesy to us all of being slightly prepared for it. And that was the end of him.

And that's the only time I've ever had to do that. I accept music folders and music stands at my session - after all its about getting together and making music in a social way, not a performance - but I don't particularly like it. And I hate it at clubs when floor singers get up with music stands or read/play from sheets. It's something I've never done. And my answer, to those who say they have difficulty in memorising words for a club performance, is: Tough. If you're not in a position to perform properly, you shouldn't be doing it. If you were a member of the MCC, you wouldn't expect a god-given right to play if you didn't have the skill. Why should music be any different?

As to the argument that orchestral players use music, that's a no-brainer. The difference between the skills needed to play a long and complex and probably annotated score - given that most conductors will dictate that the score be played to their interpretation - and the skills needed to perform a couple of floor spot songs - is immense.

Can someone explain to me why, forty and fifty years ago, no-one ever used a music stand or music folders or books or other aide memoires in folk clubs - at least, not in my experience? It just wasn't done. If your response to that is that it's the same population, just forty years older, who've grown geriatric, then my answer is the same. You may like performing as a floor singer in a club, but if you're incapable of doing it properly, then you shouldn't.

Come the day when I'm incapable of playing or singing or performing as I have done over the years, then that's the day I jack it in. I just hope I have the common sense to recognise when that day comes and the guts to apply my own principles to myself!

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:46 PM

"What a clever little chap I am",
Said the zippy little man,
"With this clever little gadget
I'm holding in my hand"

I'd like to tell the world at large,
Being Einstein is a doddle.
It does all my thinking for me
And I've got the latest model!"

Well, let me tell you something,
You're way off beam, my son,
Your 'smart' phone just enables you
More stupid to become.

So, do everyone a favour,
And, just once, for a change,
Switch off your clever gadget
And start to use your brains!

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST,Jenny sans cookie
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 10:43 AM

No, we won't ever stop it if no-one has the guts to complain.

And there's no excuse for bad manners - so why put up with it?

I stop singing/playing until the offender desists - try it, it works.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 11:18 AM

You might well succeed in stopping it by complaining loudly and rudely enough.

You might also succeed in sending your session down the U-bend of history in the process.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST,silas
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 12:21 PM

Oh jenny - if only that worked! I'd get my smartphone out more often if it stopped some of the crappier performers

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 02:43 PM

Heheh. Just what I was thinking.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 03:04 PM

You want one with a REALLY BIG screen, and face away from the American Pie perpetrator so he can see you're playing Angry Birds on it. (Or, perhaps, see that you're watching a Don McLean video).

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: OlgaJ
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 03:28 PM

Acorn4

What tune do you use for this? We might pinch it!

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 03:34 PM

Father John Misty has the appropriate smartphone app for ignored performers right here:

http://gallerydaily.com/daily/2013/10/11/collecting-memories-collecting-rocks

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: treewind
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 05:34 PM

When Les Ivall was still the landlord of the John O'Gaunt in Sutton, he didn't like anyone using a mobile phone in his pub. There were several phones nailed to the wooden beam over the bar as a warning to others.

Will Fly - well done! Nobody deserves to take the piss like that and get away with it, and as then, a quiet polite word is often all that's needed. Some people really don't know how to behave and need to be told.

I don't mind people using a smartphone to record tunes, though in some cases where regular sessions are involved it would be nice if they came back to later sessions showing some sign of having learned any of them.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 06:21 PM

I know a couple of people who use their phones to read the lyrics while they are actually playing a song. It doesn't bother me, nor does talking while I am singing or waiting to start. I think it is not possible to expect quietness from people in sessions as they are often held in public bars. There are places where you have to sing over the piped music or the background TV, especially when football is on (why people are so concerned with football is beyond me). I keep my phone on silent with vibrate and very rarely take it out of my pocket during a folk night. I do have to agree with Will Fly as I know several who only ever sing from a book or with the music in front of them (Complete with chord shapes) I find it strange given that they have a repertoire of only several songs which they trot out week after week. I am sure that for the small number of songs they sing, they could learn them off by heart. But you can get gigs in noisy places such as the odd rugby club with a noisy crowd and bar. Then it is just tough and you battle through. If you are able to capture the audience the atmosphere will spread and you can actually get listened to by the majority. There are always likely to be phones going off in public places. A few years ago nobody would have thought about holding a conversation with someone on the phone while sitting having a shit or pee in the bog, but I know it happens.

Subject: RE: Smartphones at sessions
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 07:03 PM

why people are so concerned with football is beyond me

Because Liverpool are top of the table! Tsk...