BS: Islamic radicalism . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 04:35 AM

The persecution of Catholics in Northern Ireland led to over a decade of bloody warfare not so long ago - that persecution has been a part of life for the minority third since 1922.
The 'Troubles' actually started when Civil Rights marches were deliberately directed by police through mobs of stone-throwing Loyalists.
Members of my family were driven out of Derry in the 1950s after having their house burned around their ears in one of the regular sectarian bloodlettings.
Even today, in still Catholic Ireland, if I wished for a child of mine to receive a non-denominational education, I would have to drive 20 miles to the nearest school - permanently full, so you'd better make that 40 miles.
We've been through discussions on pregnancy termination to the point of allowing women to die rather than being given life-saving operations, or the State being implicated in continuing to cover up facts about clerical child abuse.
Much of the violence against Muslims and Roma taking place in Europe today is condoned or not acted on by the authorities - illicit maybe, ignored certainly - they coined the phrase 'institutional racism/culturalism' to cover it when it was revealed in Britain.
None of this would, I am sure, register on your sliding scale of persecution, of course.
The disturbing rise of fundamentalism in the world today is a continuation of what has always happened when religion has combined with politics, it's only the ingredients of that that are different.
On the subject of this thread, I would suggest that the persecution of Muslims by the Israeli regime, with its massacres, regular military incursions, checkpoints and daily humiliation must be a front-runner in the Religious Persecution stakes, but I have no doubt that you regard that as Antisemitism on my part.
As far as I am concern, they call all go to their own chosen Hell in their own particular handcart.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 05:12 AM

Jim, that New Statesman link that YOU provided lists all the places where real persecution exists.
It most definitely did not include Europe or the Americas.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 05:22 AM

You see, Keith, going to a point I mentioned elsewhere, it is statements like 'lists all the places where real persecution exists' that let down your arguments. The New Statesman does not list 'all the places'. Granted, it provides a list that shows some places where persecution exists but I am as sure as I can be that persecution exists in other places as well. And what is 'real persecution' anyway? Is there such a thing as surreal persecution? Remember what I was saying? The media are not telling lies. But they are only telling part of the story.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 05:31 AM

The writer of that piece did list a number of places that he felt relevant to the discussion.
He certainly did not mention Ireland's abortion laws.
I was pointing out that Jim's own link was not describing the kinds of persecution that Jim includes.

He is quite entitled to define anything he wants as persecution, but the piece he links to did not.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 05:39 AM

Michael is just amazingly reactionary and sees criminal association with one religion whilst ignoring the failings if others.
.,,.,
No, I don't. They are all bollocks to me & replete with 'failings'. But the 'one' you accuse me of concentrating on happens to be the 'one' that this thread is about, doesn't it? So it wouldn't be particularly germane to go off at them all. Cast eyes ½" upwards and read the thread title, sillipooze.

But this 'one' happens nevertheless to have a lot more 'failings' than the others, at that, doesn't it? Or can you after all name a sovereign state run by any other system where, in this current Year Of Grace, young women are publicly caned 100 strokes on their bare buttocks [N Nigeria 2001], or buried up to their necks & stoned to death for sleeping with husbands they have legally married but the sharia court won't recognise, or hanged for maintaining the religion into which they were brought up? But objedction to such practices is "reactionary", is it? How so, pray?

I'm surprised BTW at you falling back on such a pathetic lefty boo-word as "reactionary". Why, I shall be an "imperialist running-dog" of something-or-other in a minute, I daresay.

"reactionary": let me roll it round the mouth. "reactionary"; "reactionary"...

Reminds me of my bro-in-law's Communist-party-member brother back in the 1940s. "Reactionary" --

Ah, sweet!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 06:08 AM

"It most definitely did not include Europe or the Americas."
So ******* what?
You have just been given the situation in America and Britain - who o earth is puttig national boundaries on religious persecution, certainly not me.
Here'e a further example of the British brand from this moring's Sunday Times
I think Mike shrugged it off as "Peter Robinson agreeing with some other Irishman", and nothing to do with Britain.
Jim Carroll

BIBLE BASHER WHO LACKS FAITH IN COMMUNITY SPIRIT
The Metropolitan Tabernacle preacher's verbal attack on Muslims and sharia law from his Belfast pulpit has caused disquiet not just in Northern Ireland but around the world

Not many live shows at the Odyssey Arena in Belfast offer a religious 1 experience, but then not many shows are like those hosted by Metropolitan Tabernacle church. In 2011, a 7,000 -strong audience saw a line-up that included choirs and drama teams. The headline act was Pastor James McConnell who told the gathering that recent natural disasters were a sign of the second coming, as prophesied in the Bible.
This veteran grey- haired preacher describes himself as a simple man, but at Pentecostal rallies he is more like a rock star. In 2005, he drew a full house of14,000 to the Odyssey. Five years later 12,000 people listened to his sermon at a rally in Ravenhill rugby ground. Thefollowingyear, he preached to 1,000 people in predominately Catholic west Belfast.
His place of weekly worship, Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle on Belfast's Shore Road, cost £5m (€6.14m) to build 20 years ago and is more like a concert venue than a church. Visitors are greeted with a golden double staircase, glittering chandeliers and a waterfall in the foyer. This is religion Las Vegas-style. At a time when Sunday congregations are dwindling elsewhere, McConnell is clearly doing something right. The east Belfast-born firebrand, who has been preaching since the age of 13, built this place up from an Orange Hall with 10 worshippers to a hand-clapping arena that routinely attracts 2,000.
Two Sundays ago McConneU's congregation heard him make remarks about Muslims that would ignite a controversy that would be reported around ' the world. The pastor described Islam as " heathen" and "satanic". "People say there are good Muslims in Britain — that may be so — but I don't trust them," he roared from the pulpit.
Khalid Anis of the Islamic Society of Britain challenged McConnell about his remarks on the BBC's Nolan Show last Wednesday. "I was disturbed that, in a country where there has been so much sectarian strife, a religious leader seems to be making the same mistake about stereotyping and tarring a whole community because of ignorance," he said. Before the debate, Anis expected a "huanced discussion about sharia law and the role it played within Muslim communities. It quickly became apparent [McConnell] had no understanding about what sharia means to British Muslims"
A number of political figures came out in support of McConnell. These included Edwin Poots, the DUP health minister, and Sammy Wilson, another MLA from the party. Peter Robinson, Northern Ireland's first minister, agreed he would not trust Muslims involved in violence, or devotees of sharia law, although he would "trustthemtogototheshops" for him. "Trust isn't a matter of ahatecrime," Robinson reasoned. "If it is, I'm going to ask the police to take action against people who don't trust politicians."
Robinson and his wife Iris have worshipped at McConneU's church for years, and their daughter Rebekah was married at his Shore Road venue in 2003. When Iris Robinson was revealed to be having an affair-with a 19 -year-old, McConnell , publicly came to the couple's support, saying: "I think Iris can begin again in another way, not in politics, where she can help a lot of people."
Peter Robinson may have spoken out of spiritual solidarity with his pastor, but the province's Muslims were offended. "I find it despicable and totally unacceptable," said Anis. "The 3,000 or so Muslims in Northern Ireland look up to him, as do other minority communities. He has since backtracked, but I don't think that's enough. He's doing the political thing now, as far as I can see."
Some Christians justified McConnell's sermon on the basis of freedom of speech. Michael Wardlow, head of Northern Ireland's Equality Commission, was having none of it, however. "It's perfectly OK for people within faith traditions to have a robust dialogue around faith, even criticise other faiths, but freedom of speech has limitations," he said. "In evangelical, more right-wing churches, you do get more extreme language. [But] not only did he say all Muslims cannot be trusted, he said they can't be trusted because of sharia law. Two things were happening: negative stereotyping, and he was perpetuating perceptions that are not factually correct."
Race-hate crimes are on the rise in Northern Ireland, with a 43 % increase in attacks on ethnic minorities over the past year. Two racist attacks are reported every day. Last week Anna Lo, an Alliance MLA, announced her intention to leave politics because of racist abuse. "To support a lunatic who makes remarks like that is adding fuel to the flames in Northern Ireland," Lo said about Robinson's support for McConnell.
Despite his apparently antiquated beliefs, the pastor leads a relatively progressive church. The venue streams its services online, some preachers read scripture from iPads, and McConnell invites everyone including Catholics to attend. In 2010, he condemned fundamentalist preachers in America for burning copies of the Koran on the anniversary of 9/11. "I think it's not just disrespectful but stupid," he said.
The pastor has been married to Margaret since he was 22, and has two daughters. His background suggests triumph in the face of adversity. James McConnell was born May 15,1938, in east Belfast. At the age of seven his mother died, and he was orphaned at 13 when his father also passed away. "My sister was very ill with tuberculosis and our home was wiped out by the disease," he once said. "I went to live with my grandparents; my grandfather was a godly man and at the age of 7 Vi1 gave my life to Christ."
At 14, McConnell left school and started working in a Belfast shipyard as an office clerk. He was ordained to the Christian ministry when he was 17 and founded the Whitewell church two years later. By the time he set up the Metropolitan Tabernacle in 1994, he was one of Europe's most notable evangelical preachers. Despite his Jimmy Swaggart style of mega-church preaching, he has largely avoided scandal until now.
Accordingto company accounts from 2009, the church's annual operating costs are about £1.2m.
McConnell reportedly takes a modest £25,000 salary. He has been involved in a number of charitable ventures, but not all have worked out. In 2009, he said he "took a hammer" to a Romanian children's home funded by his congregation to stop it falling into the hands of a "paedophile ring" connected to the Romanian government. The Romanian embassy rejected the allegations.
Spouting fire and brimstone from the pulpit may not have been good for his health. In 2011, he underwent triple heart-bypass surgery. It was reportedly only the second time in 54 years he had not held his services — and he was back preaching two weeks later. Last year, he was diagnosed with prostate cancer and underwent chemotherapy. During his Slightly befuddled performance on the Nolan Show, he continually pronounced sharia as "sharara". "He can't even pronounce the word," complained Anis. "I don't know what's driving him, quite honestly."
On Thursday, Robinson apologised for his comments, which local Muslim leaders accepted. However, some Muslim doctors have questioned his continuing suitability as first minister, and particularly his health minister's support for McConnell. SaminaDornan, a consultant gynaecologist and obstetrician at Belfast's Royal Victoria Hospital, said: "I love living here, I am so proud to be here, but I have never been so embarrassed in my life to be from Northern Ireland."
No apologies have been forthcoming from McConnell himself. Last week, he was back on stage at Metropolitan Tabernacle, labelling Barack Obama a "patchwork quilt" who "doesn't know" if he's Christian or Muslim. "Nobody is going to close my mouth — Islam is dangerous," he said.
Still, Anis is hoping that there is a way forward through dialogue. "I told him [after the Nolan Show] the Belfast Muslim community is extending an invitation to come and sit with them. Nothing happens by talking hateful language."
You'd think Northern Ireland might have realised that by now.
Sunday Times 1.6.2014

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 06:40 AM

That must have been some real putrid verbal diarrhea that Shaw spewed out to merit those responses from MtheGM. I long ago ceased reading anything emanating from that vile person but do quite enjoy Mike's counter punches - do keep it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 06:50 AM

Thank you, bobad. Actually, I don't generally find Steve 'vile'; I often find him quite a reasonable person, which is why I was so taken aback by his last lot of animadversions. As I said a post or two back, to Keith at 0411 am, I can't imagine what brought it on, & hope he may now regret it. Not holding breath, tho.

Best

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 07:08 AM

Shaw doesn't take kindly to being called out for the shite he spews. He once sent me a threatening PM for doing so that had me quaking in my boots (not really - having a good laugh at his expense more like it). Anyway - be warned.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 07:11 AM

Did you get around to checking on the nephew of the corner shop owner Michael?

It's just that the word reactionary crept up again.

By the way, I did read the thread title. I am not interested in threads designed to point at people for being different. It's got fuck all to do with foreign abhorrent cultures and more to do with making tenuous links with decent law abiding citizens over here. Your addition to that puerile agenda was most unwelcome.

By the way, following on from Jim's expose of radical Christianist hate in Northern Ireland, an excellent photo of a woman outside Stormont with a banner saying "I am a Muslim Consultant Surgeon. I am here to do Mr Robinson's shopping"

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 07:27 AM

Sez you what it has "more to do with"; but it's no sort of law of nature that you have to be right about that. Islamist radicalism is a demonstrable threat to the current commonweal, or none of the things from 9/11 to the caning of the unmarried mother in Nigeria to the murder of Fusilier Rigby would have happened. If we are not to single out any sort of specified entity for any sort of comment, than what is the point of this forum at all? And you really don't know what Mr Patel's nephew thinks, you know. All v well being sarcastic about the comment; but the 9/11 guys & the Rigby killers et al were all somebody's nephews at that.

Sorry, Ian; but I honestly think you are long overdue to log on to Confused.com . You really do seem to have lost the plot here.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 07:44 AM

more to do with making tenuous links with decent law abiding citizens over here.

The title excludes decent law abiding citizens.
Our security services say there are thousands of radicalised Islamists who do live here though.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 08:05 AM

"Not Europe"
The present swing to the right has been engineered by playing on innate Xenophobia, largely aimed at Muslims
The problem, of course, is that once the extremists get a toe-hold, their extremism has no particular sectarian or racial barriers - anybody whose face doesn't fit
Not counting Farrago, the extremist right (no dispute that all this shit is right-wing generated, though Mm Le Penn is insisting that they are "radical" and not extremist) has made significant gains in 12 European countries.
She is now ferreting away trying to unite those groupings into a single entity - good days ahead, if she does.
Jim Carroll
This from today's Sunday Times, from European Belgium.
FEARFUL JEWS BEGIN EXODUS FROM EUROPE
The Brussels killings are an extreme example of anti-semitism driving thousands to Israel, the UK and US
Sojan Pancevski BRUSSELS Inna Lazareva TEL AVIV

DELPHINE ANKAOUA never dreamt she would feel com¬pelled to leave her chic home in the leafy Neuilly-sur-Seine suburb of Paris.
But when her neighbours of 10 years asked Ankaoua to remove the mezuzah, a small box containing a piece of Jewish religious text, from the front door of her flat, she and her family decided it was time to leave the country — and move to Israel.
"We were absolutely shocked," said Ankaoua, 39, who had long encouraged her sons to wear baseball caps over their kippas (skull caps) to disguise their origins. "We tried phoning an organisation that helps Jews combat anti-semitism, and they told us just to take off the mezuzah."
Any doubts about her decision were dispelled two weeks before Ankaoua and her husband were due to leave when their seven-year-old son was told he could not play in the garden because he was Jewish.
"At that point I just said: 'Merci, la France! Au revoir!'," she said. "It made it so much easier for me to say goodbye to my country."
From her new home in Jerusalem, Ankaoua works for the Israeli government, helping other European Jews driven to emigrate by what they perceive as an increasingly hostile atmosphere.
The extreme form such hostility can take was high¬lighted by last weekend's killings of four visitors and staff of the Jewish Museum in Brussels in an apparent Antisemitic attack
Despite an international outcry, the Belgian police have yet to catch the perpetrator.
Figures compiled by the Israeli government say the exodus is most pronounced from France, home to more than 500,000 Jews, and Belgium, which has a 42,000-strong Jewish commu¬nity. The number of French Jews moving to Israel doubled to 3,374 in 2013, after the killing in Toulouse the previous year by a French-Algerian anti-Semite of seven people, including three stu¬dents at a Jewish school.
This year it could hit 5,000: by the end of April, 1,499 had already made the journey.
The secretary-general of the World Jewish Congress, Serge Cwajgenbaum, said many more were moving to Britain, America and Canada. "Jews are questioning their future not only in France but in Europe at large because they fear for their safety."
The EU's racism watchdog found France, Belgium and Hungary were the worst countries in terms of perceived anti-semitism, according to a study conducted among Jewish minorities.
Nearly half the respondents expressed concern about falling victim to verbal attacks, while more than 33% feared physical assault. A quarter said they avoided Jewish sites or events because they felt unsafe.
A surge in support for far-right parties in elections to the European parliament, such as the National Front in France, has added to concerns.
"When openly anti-semitic, neo-Nazi political parties gained a foothold in national parliaments and regional councils, and now in the European Parliament itself, more alarm bells should be raised", wrote David Harris, director of pressure group, the America Jewish Committee.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 08:54 AM

The writer of that piece did list a number of places that he felt relevant to the discussion.

But that is not what you said, Keith. Your exact phrase, to save you paging back, was lists all the places where real persecution exists.

Not being pedantic or trying to nitpick in any way but when you say one thing and then change it, how can we hope to follow your argument?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 09:19 AM

Jim, the shooting of Jews in France was by an Islamist.
re the Jews shot in Brussels, "29-year-old French citizen Mehdi Nemmouche captured Friday in Marseille, said to have ties to Syrian jihadists.

Thanks Dave.
I revise the post.

Jim, that New Statesman link that YOU provided listed a number of places that were felt relevant to the discussion about persecution.
It most definitely did not include Europe or the Americas.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 10:02 AM

Thanks, Keith. Still a very pertinent point to our other discussion about relying on the press. Here we have a perfect example. You said one thing and was corrected, so you revised the post. That is exactly what happens when the media is pulled up by offcom. However, by that point in time the damage has been done. A revision or apology on in column 6, page 11, does not get noticed but satisfies the law. And people still believe that the article lists all the places where real persecution exists. They do not read the retraction.

BTW - Even your revision is a spin. Just because it does not list Europe or the Americas does not mean that persecution is not occurring there. They just want to draw your attention to the places they list for an agenda that we can only guess at. As I have said before, do not rely on the media for anything.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 10:38 AM

Well, here's some good news for a change, we can only hope that those Imams who prescribe it take heed: "Ulema Council says so-called 'honour killings' are un-Islamic and sign of ignorance, ahead of June 5 meeting."

Pakistan clerics issue stoning death decree

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 10:43 AM

"Jim, the shooting of Jews in France was by an Islamist."
It doesn't matter who the **** did the shooting - the racist response of the police and the neighbours of the lady interviewed indicate an institutionalised racism in Belgium.
Antisemitic attacks in Europe are long term facts of life for Jews living there.
Attacks on homes of asylum-seekers are exclusively carried out by the indigenous populations throughout Europe - a disturbing rise of those attacks has been reported today in British/Christian Northern Ireland.
Election results recently have shown a disturbing rise in support for fascism in Europe - twelve countries in all - not (yet) counting Britain - all the candidates, white, Christian and indigenous - not a Muslim among them.
It seems from here that people (so-called Christians) like yourself are happy to ignore this, and go along with them as long as they include Muslims as the targets of their (your) hatred)
Once again - you have the situation in Christian Europe, yet you continue to ignore it.
Long live us white Christians eh?   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 10:57 AM

Here are a few more people who make the "preposterous claim"

I didn't ask for a list of more people spouting bullshit, FW - I asked for evidence.

Which you did not supply.

As per usual.

Now awaiting your usual spin doctoring.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 11:30 AM

Michael accuses others of anti semetism then repeats his awful slur on decent law abiding Muslims.

Keith meanwhile makes his usual sweeping statements in a style he'd scream for "evidence" of if more rational people had said it.

Perhaps one day society will learn to suck each other's cocks but till then, fear and mistrust of neighbours prevails.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 11:31 AM

Greg, some of them were heads of state, and all of them quoted by someone trying to prove that Christians are NOT the most persecuted.
(That was the "agenda" Dave)

Some research evidence was also quoted Greg.
You are being too hard on poor Jim's link.

Jim, Your Sunday Times piece made clear that Jews are fleeing France in fear of the Islamists, the rise of the Right just ringing "more alarm bells."

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 11:33 AM

Musket, what "sweeping statements" have I made.
I am sure I can produce evidence if required, but for what?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 11:58 AM

"Your Sunday Times piece made clear that Jews are fleeing France in fear of the Islamists, the rise of the Right just ringing "more alarm bells.""
You appear to be absolving indigenous antisemitism in order to pin it on the Muslims - does your sectarian hatred have no limits?
Antisemitism is on the rise in Europe because of the increase in popularity of extremist right organisation expressing views like yours.
Of course there is Muslim antisemitism, just as there is Jewish Islamophobia - there is a Muslim-Israeli territorial war taking place in the Middle East, but the institutional brand in Europe is the most indicative of what is happening there, and it is the most dangerous because it knows no religious or racial limits YOU HAVE TOTALLY IGNORED THS FACT - UP OUR OWN HOME-GROWN RACISM, IT WOULD APPEAR
Jim Carroll
Fanatiacal ptatt
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 12:40 PM

Ian loq: Michael accuses others of anti semetism then repeats his awful slur on decent law abiding Muslims.
,..,.,
Quote this 'awful slur' please, Ian, so that I have some idea what the blazes you might be on about; I have not at present the least notion what you may be referring to: unless you mean that I suggested that any decent law-abiding person might have some relative who is less so; which seems to me a pure statement of fact -- everyone is related to someone who is decent & law-abiding, so what is a slur in saying that the latter might have a relative who is the former? It doesn't apply specifically to Muslims or anyone else, but is a mere statement of an evident commonplace.

If that is not what you are drivelling on about, then be so good as to specify what you do mean.

Otherwise, just shut your stupid fat gob, eh? There's a good fellow.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 12:46 PM

Jim Carroll
Fanatiacal ptatt
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 12:47 PM

Hang on, here comes my fat gob.

"Mr Patel's nephew."

Nurse ! Michael is out of bed again!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 12:54 PM

You appear to be absolving indigenous antisemitism in order to pin it on the Muslims - does your sectarian hatred have no limits?

No Jim.
You Sunday Times piece makes clear that, before the rise of the Right, under a Socialist government, it was fear of Islamists causing the exodus of Jews from France.
It specifically refers to the shooting, "The number of French Jews moving to Israel doubled to 3,374 in 2013, after the killing in Toulouse the previous year by a French-Algerian anti-Semite of seven people, including three stu¬dents at a Jewish school."

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 01:10 PM

"Jim Carroll
Fanatiacal ptatt
Jim Carroll
Typos - is that all you've got, you pseudo-Christian braindead?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 01:48 PM

Not just typos Jim, but that was a classic.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 01:51 PM

So Musket, what is that sweeping statement that needs evidence?
Come on.
Perhaps this time I can't produce any.
Go for it Musket.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 01:56 PM

"Not just typos Jim, but that was a classic."
Which you seem to be using to divert attention from the fact that you totally refuse to acknowledge the fact the European fascism is still with us and has never really gone away - including the British variety.
You're a bit of a mess really, aren't you?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 02:00 PM

I've dealt with Mr Patel's nephew already, Ian. & with the fact that you don't know what Mr Patel really thinks & he's not going to tell you. If you regard this as a general attack on all law-abiding anything-whatevers, then I fear you are deluded. But that's not news, you poor old fellow. Better call that 'nurse' of yours to minister to your own goodself, my Dilly-Duckling...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 05:25 PM

before the rise of the Right, under a Socialist government, it was fear of Islamists causing the exodus of Jews from France.

One word for you, FW: Dreyfuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 06:22 PM

Shaw doesn't take kindly to being called out for the shite he spews. He once sent me a threatening PM for doing so that had me quaking in my boots (not really - having a good laugh at his expense more like it). Anyway - be warned.

Well, minnow, here, for your delectation and for the delectation of everyone else, are the only two PMs I've ever sent you.

[Quote](1)Bet he'll bite again, his type always do.

Troll. Go and find something useful to do.[Unquote]


[Quote](2) Know summat, mate? PMs means PRIVATE messages. However, you have my full permission to publish mine in full. On the thread. Go ahead! I hope you understand, by the way, what is meant by "in full." Anything else will be regarded as a breach of confidentiality and I'll report you. Have a nice day, whoever you are.

In full, OK? No allusions, yeah? Go for it![Unquote]

There ya go. Permission to publish any of my PMs in full, but only in full, so as not to misrepresent. Some dark threat, eh? Be warned, guys!


Minnow! Got anything useful to say, preferably not Islamophobic for a refreshing change? Can you manage more than one line, or do you prefer to hide behind your "sage-man-of-few-words" bullshite persona?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 06:30 PM

I note your multiple bad-conscience litany of posts, Michael (do get a bloody life, and I hope you're feeling better as a consequence of your cathartic exercise of spleen - it's only a sodding internet forum, you know), but the problem is that you called a perfectly reasonable (though admittedly passionate) man antisemitic, without the merest hint of justification. One has to suspect that you are actually Bibi's uncle. Or, in your case, his great-great uncle. Say goodnight to the folks, Gracie. And cut out the PMs please. We can manage perfectly well in front of everyone else. Well, I can, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 06:39 PM

And how can you possibly know more about anti-Semitism than a Jew, especially a Jew who remembers Mosely's Blackshirts marching through his home city, lived through the holocaust losing family members, and made his way in institutions like the British Army?

Boo effin' hoo. What a load of emotional old bollocks. Even you can do better than that. And you can't even spell Mosley. And it's "the Holocaust". I seem to have more respect than you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 12:33 AM

"And cut out the PMs please. We can manage perfectly well in front of everyone else. Well, I can, anyway."
';.,.

Glad to. So, everyone, here is the PM I sent Steve yesterday, which refs back to one I had from him just over a month ago ---

Your latest effusion...         1 Jun 2014 08:40 AM         
                        Message - Steve Shaw:-
"I think that this icy attitude of mine
has rankled with some around here of more ardent inclination, but I
care not a jot. I'm a big cuddly teddy really, you know!"
you PM'd me a few weeks back.[late Apr 14]
Could have fooled me re your latest outburst. What on earth has got into you?

So where did this 'icy' but 'cuddly big teddy' go to, eh, to be replaced by this nasty resentful foulmouthed yobbo? Genuinely puzzled by the loathsome little swine's current goings-on.

& who is "Bibi" when he/she is at home?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 12:51 AM

Just a reminder, since at your request, we are washing some of this originally private bit of dirty linen in public;

Your PM quoted above was part of one in reply to one from me, telling you that, when I joined Cat 5 years ago, the late Diane Easby warned me in a PM, when I had got caught up in with you on a thread, to watch out for your notorious-to-all nasty two-faced trolling troublemaking vindictiveness & truculence; which I couldn't at the time make out as you were being, & have been since, till now, eminently reasonable and affable: and you were responding in some self-justifying apparent puzzlement, & denying ever having corresponded with Diane on any topic to your then recollection anyhow.

Still, looks as if she was in the right of it after all, eh? You obviously are a nasty truculent two-faced &c &c &c troublemaking troll at that,

aintcha, Steve Shaw?

And please consider yourself well patronised, you inconsistent feebleminded pathetic little booby, you!

Best regards

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 02:40 AM

And what's with your going on·&·on about my age, eh Shaw-minor? You know mine - 82. But you keep everso quiet about yours. You are however, from where I am sitting, most manifestly a nasty jumped-up young upstart with a peculiarly self-satisfied but grossly exaggerated opinion of his own powers & abilities. Look at me, at my great age, running rings round you here while you pant and strain to keep up. You're not even starting to convince anyone, you silly, conceited, pathetic, mannerless little fool. And I am still waiting for all these o-so-powerful 'bites' of yours which are going to demolish me once & for all. Come on, now: show us these invincible fangs of yours -- you stupid, toothless, vain, wittering, rude, useless little fat·gob.

All the best, me-duckling - keep trying ~~

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 02:48 AM

And say "Sir" when you speak to me, you disrespectful little yobbo!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 03:24 AM

Slow-burn -- re Bibi.

Oh, you must mean Netanyahu.

Well well well: another origin-throwing antisemite emerges from the woodwork....!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 03:30 AM

M....too much PM's already. :0)

Keep YOUR feet out of the mire Sir.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 04:11 AM

Strange coincidence, Dictionary.com has "gnomist" as its "word of the day".

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 04:25 AM

Why, Ake?

I shall probably have to leave this thread soon, mind, becoz I'm just beginning to enjoy it too much. Demolishing this puffed-up little yobbo Shaw's vain attempts, with his self-vaunted great intellect and fatuous claims of greater knowledge than mine of everything under the sun, is just too priceless for words. Winding him up is just becoming too addictive. Can't wait for him to come back with a few more of his poor toothless "bites" which are supposed to finish me off good'n'proper ~~ in his dreams! ~~; & his pathetic attempts to gain leverage by reminding everybody of my long-ago Jewish origins (obviously assuming all Mudcatters to be as mindlessly antisemitic as his disgusting stinking self); and my supposedly helpless & debilitating advanced age which is absolutely leaving his conceited self·regarding youthful vigour standing; and his pathetic conviction that supposedly lively young people can be any sort of match for knowledgeable & still-active octogenarians: it's all just such unholy FUN!

So come on back, Little-Shaw-O'-My-♥: Letsby Avenue! Can't wait for your next lot of idiocies... teeheeheeheehee.......   

☠〠·LoL·〠☠

~M~

Appreciate your pun on my name, btw, Ake. Not all that original, tho, as you might have anticipated.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 04:27 AM

I miss-spelled a surname and dropped a capital.
That does not answer or invalidate my point Steve, so here it is again.

How can you possibly know more about anti-Semitism than a Jew, especially a Jew who remembers Mosley and his Blackshirts marching through his home city, lived through the Holocaust losing family members, and made his way in institutions like the British Army?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 04:40 AM

So, now: to get back to the thread's moutons ~~~

Attention to this morning's Times, which once again full of the goings-on of those stinking Sudanese persecutions of this harmless young woman that they want to whip & hang for marrying someone that one of their ignorant Islamist shitholes of a judge didn't approve of; + an account of all the institutions and individuals worldwide breaking off all contact with the Sultan of Brunei over all his nice new stone-'em & flog-'em legislation.

Come on now, all you fine champions of the intolerable: let's hear it for His Majesty the good old Sultan and His Honour the fine upstanding Sudanese judge.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 04:47 AM

Why, Keith: the unconscionable Shaw obviously considers it much more serious to lose a capital letter than to lose all one's relations in Focsani & Bucharest & Riga & Vilnius.

He really is a one, ain't he just!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 04:51 AM

Or..

How can anyone know more than teachers of any particular school under scrutiny?

Except the OFSTED inspectors bring outside objectivity. Having been involved in regulation myself for a few years, I see that experience and affinity bring a dimension to a debate, not an answer. An answer includes cold objective scrutiny. That's why the victims don't get to sit on the jury or bench.

Michael's linking all Muslims with radical fanatics is as piss poor as the mindset that linked all European Jews with the haves v have nots debate that was popular in the '20s and '30s. I've seen photos of the blackshirts marching, so my recollection is at least as good.

If the time of the blackshirts marching is relevant, then discuss the difference between young British men going to Syria to defend an ideal and young British men going to Spain. Both advised otherwise by the government of the day, both going for the same perceived purpose.

Keith as ever sees items he agrees with as stronger in evidence base than anything that offends his stupidity.

Well done.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 05:27 AM

BRITISH BELFAST
"I miss-spelled a surname and dropped a capital."
And are quick enough to take advantage of others doing similar
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 06:55 AM

"Michael's linking all Muslims with radical fanatics"
.,,.
No. Wrong. Not worth going on contradicting this obsessive little tit. He's asserted this countless times, but never been able to cite the instance. So what if I said that some nice Muslim he knows might have relatives that are less nice, & might even sympathise with them on the quiet without necessarily telling His Imperial Musketness, how does that equate to the accusation above?

Oh, just shut up you silly little prat, Ian. You have as Jane Austen put it, long ceased to deserve the compliment of rational opposition.

So just piss off.

Please.

Best regards

~M~