BS: American Pie

Subject: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 02 May 14 - 02:49 AM

Elsewhere, I made a comment about the phrase "American as apple pie" which of course has been baked pretty much everywhere for probably as long as man has been gathering fruit, grinding grain and cooking stuff on a fire.

I know however, at least according to a plethora of US TV series, that America really does do a lot of great sounding pie. What are the best classic truly American pies? Describe your favourite and offer a recipe if you have one.

Personal anecdotes are very welcome, after all - as famously noted by Proust - food is one of the things that evokes some of the most potent memories for us.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 May 14 - 04:59 AM

Pecan

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Amergin
Date: 02 May 14 - 05:01 AM

Huckleberry. It brings back lovely childhood memories of summers in North Idaho....

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 May 14 - 05:21 AM

Out of interest, I have rarely come across savoury pies in the US, either when I have visited or in popular culture. I know you have them, as I did come across some, but any idea why they are not as popular as here in the UK?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 02 May 14 - 07:35 AM

What is huckleberry pie? Never heard of it, I've no idea what it's like. Never heard of a huckleberry either for that matter, what are they like?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 14 - 11:04 AM

Huckleberry

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Jeri
Date: 02 May 14 - 11:22 AM

"Huckleberry" at Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 May 14 - 11:22 AM

gnu - that link took one to Huckleberry Hound! However, I goggled Wiki Huckleberry separately, and found that it is a species related to what we call the blueberry., I think we have blueberry pies here sometimes. Tho we don't have that very characteristic American dish, pumpkin pie too often. Largely because we don't have many pumpkins; and those we do have, our Fairy Godmothers turn into coaches for us so that we shall go to the ball...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: pdq
Date: 02 May 14 - 11:26 AM

By the late 1800s, it was common for a US kitchen to have a pie safe.

Some were fine factory craft by most were either local-made or homemade.

They often had vents of sheet tin and the builder used a nail to hand-punch the vent holes.

I think you will find that most of the pies were meat pies, which enabled a very small amount of beef or mutton to feed a whole family.

My pie safe is used to hold CDs now and stands nearly 6' tall.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Jeri
Date: 02 May 14 - 11:29 AM

There's Shoo-Fly pie, which, despite its name, doesn't seem to have any flies in it. Just sugar. And molasses, and more sugar.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 May 14 - 11:49 AM

Do you have mince pies, which are a popular Xmas dish here? I don't recall ever coming across them in the States. The mince referred to is not meat [mince here usually means what you call ground meat], but a mixture of dried fruits and spices; altho I believe the pies did originally have a small amount of minced meat also.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 14 - 11:52 AM

~M~

pdq... "I think you will find that most of the pies were meat pies, which enabled a very small amount of beef or mutton to feed a whole family."

>;-)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: pdq
Date: 02 May 14 - 11:54 AM

I have always heard them called 'mince meat pies' and yes, they have a reasonable amount of finely hand-diced beef.

Pretty heavy food, usually reserved for the Holidays.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 May 14 - 12:01 PM

Am I right in thinking that when we in the States have meat pies we tend to call them 'pot pies' and 'shepherd pies'? Other than mince meat pies, which my family didn't normally make.

My family *was* big on(sweet)pies and cobblers.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 May 14 - 12:20 PM

Over here, a "shepherd's pie" is not really a pie at all, i.e with a pastry crust, but an oven-baked layer of minced lamb covered with mashed potato. A similar dish with minced beef is called a "cottage pie". Seems another of those 'divided by a common language' occasions.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 May 14 - 12:26 PM

Here in Canada, savoury pies are often found in the groceries, and at markets. In Quebec, and often in bakeries across the country, Tourtiere is a favorite meat pie- pork, beef, onion, spices. Many recipes on the net.

I will post recipes for 1-2 of the family favorites later, but here is a simple tourtiere- every family seems to have a variation.

1 lb. lean pork, ground
1/2 lb. lean beef, ground
One medium onion, chopped
Garlic cloves (1-2 if good quality, more if the vegetable type)
1 cup water
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1/2 teaspoon sage
1/2 teaspoon thyme
1/8 teaspoon ground cloves (some like nutmeg)
1/2 teaspoon black pepper (use white if black pepper upsets you)
Pastry for double crust pie, about 9 inch.

Combine ingredients in a sauce pan. Cook at medium heat until the mixture boils. Mix well, and simmer until meat is done (5-10 minutes).
Spoon into pie crust and cover with crust (a few slits).
Bake in 425F (225C) oven for 20 minutes. Cover top loosely with aluminum to prevent too much browning. Remove foil and bake for 20 minutes (or until nicely golden brown).
Cool for a few minutes before slicing.

Best if served immediately, but left-over pie may be put in fridge and then warmed for later use.

Some people make a sauce which is used to cover the pastry when it is served.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: pdq
Date: 02 May 14 - 12:30 PM

Never heard of 'shepherd's pie', but I recall having wonderful 'chicken pot pie'.

Odd that the beef equvalent was just a 'meat pie'.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Ed T
Date: 02 May 14 - 02:47 PM

Mock cherry pie 

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 May 14 - 02:53 PM

Wikipedia has a lengthy list of savoury pies. I count nine or ten on the list that I've had in the U.S., mostly in "ethnic" celebrations or restaurants. On the list, the ones I see most commonly are calzone, empanada, knish, pasty, pirozhki (various spellings & ethnicities), quiche, samosa, and spanakopita. The only all-American savoury pie that I know of is the pot pie - usually chicken, turkey, or beef stew inside a pie crust. Home-made pot pies are really good, and you can buy really bad frozen pot pies really cheap.

I've had both Polish and Russian pirozhkis. There's a White Russian community in Fresno (California) that makes "beerocks" (I think the name is a variant of pirogi) - they're like dinner rolls with spiced meat baked inside. If you're ever in Fresno, try the beerocks and the Armenian and Basque food.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 May 14 - 03:07 PM

Shepherd's Pie is widely available in Canada. Some branded (M+M), Compliments), some made in-store. Home-made is better, since it can be layered casserole style to make a truly tasty main course.

We used to make it many years ago in New Mexico, often an in-camp dish in iron pan.
Just a mixture of ground beef (lamb is better), green peas and/or corn, slivered carrot, some crushed garlic, perhaps a touch of A-1 Sauce in the mix, with a topping of mashed potatoes (to which we often added diced chives). Some smashed Garlic in the mix or that garlic in the little glass bottle.
Bottom crust, bake in oven or covered on stove top. We used a rectangular pan.

Some of the better recipes at allrecipes.com, but easy to make with what is on hand.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: bobad
Date: 02 May 14 - 04:54 PM

There is a traditional Quebec savoury pie called cipaille the name derived from the English sea-pie.

Cipaille

There is also a traditional Quebec sweet pie called tarte au sucre. It is a concoction of sugar and maple syrup cream and butter - what's not to like.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 14 - 05:00 PM

cow pie

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 May 14 - 05:31 PM

Gee, I'm getting hungry. The trouble with almost all of these pies, is that my cardiologist doesn't like them...

I'm a fan of shepherd's pie. I'm surprised that some Americans here hadn't heard of it. I thought it was quite common here.



-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 May 14 - 07:18 PM

Shepherd's Pie, the warmed left-over, is good too. Dinner one night, then the left-over for lunch the following day. careful with the heat, don't dry it out.
We had one last week. Joe, I thought it was known everywhere in U. S. and Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 May 14 - 11:49 PM

No matter the contents (savory, meat, fruit) the foundation is found in a light, flakey crust.

Handed Down for generations:

Half as much shortening as flour (lard preferred)
Half as much water as shortening.
A pinch of salt and a pinch of BP with flour.

Blend flour and shortning until mixture is "pea size"
Add water...mix as little as possible...let rest in fridge for an hour before rolling.

Sincerel,
Gargoyle

Yes Joe. Beer Rocks, kraut runze, tavrern burgers, kraut burgers. (ground beef, onion, cabbage, in a soft dinner-roll ) built one legend of my family.

Try 250 to 1000 mg of VitC (dissolved ascorbic acid) added to your next batch of bread dough. Creats a finer texture.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 03 May 14 - 01:16 AM

Shoo-fly pie is called that because it's so good that keeping the flies from it at a picnic is a major battle.

My favorites are in the citrus-custard category: Lemon Meringue and Key Lime.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 03 May 14 - 01:20 AM

Gargoyle, you're saying 4:2:1 flour:lard:water? I've always heard 3:2:1.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 May 14 - 01:24 AM

Your "shepherd's pie" in US & Canada -- is that the same as ours, with a baked mashed potato topping rather than a pie-crust, or a different sort -- a pie-crust covered dish?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 14 - 01:55 AM

And the similar but not identical cottage pie.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 03 May 14 - 02:51 AM

Michaelr - my Nan taught me "half fat to flour" and the fat should be equal parts butter and lard. With *just enough* cold water to bind without being sticky. That's how I've always made shortcrust pastry (though I use vegetable fat instead of lard now.)

Flakey and puff usually need extra fat however (puff is 1:1)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: JennieG
Date: 03 May 14 - 03:11 AM

Thanks, Q, I have printed out that recipe and will try it this coming winter! Would regular brown gravy be the sauce served, or would you get more creative?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: sciencegeek
Date: 03 May 14 - 06:29 AM

dang.. my first attempt to post gone... like a good pie.

if you look for pies in the US, they are generally sweet pies & found in the bakery sections.

fillings: cream, custard, fruit and berries thickened with tapioca or cornstarch

crusts: pastry dough or cookie/graham cracker crumbs on bottom
top crust either full top or woven strips of pastry dough. crumb bottoms don't get tops except for whipped meringue.

we just polished off a blackberry pie... the Amish family down the hill from us just re-opened their Saturday bake shop for the season... there goes the diet.

I happen to enjoy a nice savory pie... but it's rare to find one other than Shepard's pie when eating out. Pot pies were easy to freeze and became a standard frozen food item, along with the so called TV dinners and fish sticks.

I think that the need to prepare the pastry dough is main reason for the demise of savory pies... it was easier to prepare a casserole for dinner... and you could reheat a frozen pie for dessert. In spite of all the cook shows and books/magazines... the number of Americans who can actually cook from scratch has been falling for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: gnu
Date: 03 May 14 - 02:10 PM

"the number of Americans who can actually cook from scratch has been falling for decades." Yeah. Hard to find the time when working two jobs at less than a living wage from BOTH.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 May 14 - 02:25 PM

When I die and get to heaven (assuming I've been a good girl) waiting for me will be a huge plate of buttered crumpets, and an enormous steak and kidney pie made with 8oz plain flour, 4oz of fat - equal amounts of butter and lard, and filled with more lambs' kidneys than steak (which have been cooked separately first, thickened with Bisto and added to a blind-baked base, upon which is placed the raw pastry top, cooked for 30 minutes on a medium oven) Now as this is heaven, St Peter will know just how to prepare these things for me. And as it's heaven, I will be slim and delightfully attractive no matter how many crumpets or pies I tuck into.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 May 14 - 03:09 PM

PUMPKIN PIE

1 28-0z pumpkin, ED Smith preferred
1 cup Demerara sugar (or "brown" if Demerara not on hand)
1 cup white sugar
2 tablespoons molasses
1/2 + teaspoon pure vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon powdered cloves
1/2 teaspoon allspice
3 teaspoon cinnamon
1 teaspoon ginger
1/4 teaspoon cardamom
1 teaspoon salt 4 eggs, slightly beaten
2 cups 2% milk, scalded (remove scum)

Mix in order given.

Makes two pies. Bake in shells 15 minutes at 425F and 1 hour at 325F.

Decorate with pecan halves if desired.

We ladle on eggnog or hard sauce when serving.

We make at Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 May 14 - 03:38 PM

Any more? Or is it time to drive the Chevy to the levee?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 May 14 - 03:57 PM

No, the levee was dry, Mike...

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 May 14 - 04:16 PM

So "bye-bye"...

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: JennieG
Date: 03 May 14 - 05:39 PM

We don't get canned pumpkin here in Oz, unless one can find it at a shop selling foods imported from the US at great expense. However I have found that you can make your own: cut pumpkin into chunks, leaving the skin on, and roast it in the oven with no oil, butter or seasoning. When it's cooked, scrape the flesh into a food processor or blender and purée until smooth. It can be frozen - I freeze it in self-seal bags one cup at a time, because a lot of recipes seem to call for a cup of puréed pumpkin. Pumpkin cakes and muffins are a favourite in this household, and one of these days I may even push the boat out and make a pie.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 May 14 - 07:44 PM

We treat winter squash (we like Kabocha especially) by cutting and roasting, Jennie, but we have found that by cutting in half, putting the seeds out for the birds, and microwaving the halves or quarters, we get it cooked without the use of the oven.
(The seeds are used in recipes too).

There are several types of pumpkin. A sweeter, less fibrous type is best; ED Smith and several other canned pumpkins use this type. Look in your seed catalogues for these sweet, creamy types.
The typical "Halloween" type is more fibrous and has a stronger odor; they make poorly flavored pies with poor texture.

The good ones are generally smaller, and have names like "small sugar pumpkin" and "New England Pie pumpkin." "Autumn Gold" and "Baby Pam" are good, and there are others.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,.Gargoyle
Date: 03 May 14 - 08:19 PM

Dear Mr. Michael R

The ratio is by weight ... not volume.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Best wishes in your baking...goose berry might give you a thrill.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: JennieG
Date: 04 May 14 - 02:19 AM

Q, it depends on the weather! When it's as cold as today (and today is really, really cold) any excuse to turn on the oven is seized on eagerly. We don't have all the same types of pumpkin here as you do but Jap pumpkins (which are apparently also knows as Kabocha in Japan, and Kent pumpkins here) work well.

Now I shall turn on the oven right now and bake something.......anything!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 May 14 - 04:55 AM

Same here, Jennie. The temperature has dropped alarmingly for May, and we don't want to buy any more oil, so it's jumpers and thick socks in the house. But when I turn on the oven the expression on our cats' faces is priceless. "About bloody time!" And if it's a casserole or a slow-cooked pie, the kitchen gets toasty warm, and the cats (they're Siamese) get longer and longer in their beds until they're so relaxed they look like long, thin pieces of string!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: gnu
Date: 04 May 14 - 07:29 AM

A can of ED Smith's pumpkin pie mix costs more than a pie at the grocery. And they are good pies.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 14 - 04:11 PM

So bye-bye, Miss American Pie
Drove my Chevy to the levy
But the levy was dry.

Now go get high all you potheads.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 May 14 - 04:11 PM

Kabocha (a Japanese winter squash), as I mentioned, is sold in stores here and is a good one that we often use in a thick soup, but it is not a pumpkin.

Store pumpkin pies are too flat for my taste. A can of ED Smith pumpkin is cheaper here than a store pie, and the 28 oz. size makes two.

Another store pie that seldom is worth eating is lemon chiffon, which is heavenly if made with fresh lemons and covered with proper chiffon. The store versions all seem to be imitation lemon and fake chiffon.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 May 14 - 04:17 PM

Sorry, I really meant meringue, not chiffon. Old age got me, cane by my side.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 04 May 14 - 05:25 PM

At half time at the match, I have a balti pie (washed down with a drink of Bovril.)

You can't beat a belly full of balti. ( Vin Garbutt reckons Belly Full of Balti sang Mary's Boy Child.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 May 14 - 08:14 PM

Balti? Baltimore?

Bovril? Sounds un-American!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 04 May 14 - 11:37 PM

Although canned pumpkin is common, here in the USA, nothing better than a pumpkin pie made with fresh pie (sugar) pumpkins!

I've lived in the South for nearly 30 years now, and sweet potato pie is more traditional in these parts than pumpkin.
Taste is similar, but not identical. Texture is very different, whether one uses canned or fresh sweet potatoes or pumpkin. (would be very rare, though, for some one to use canned sweet potatoes to make a pie than for folks to use canned pumpkin. Pie pumpkins are only carried very briefly in major grocery chains for Thanksgiving. Rarely for Christmas. Co-ops and whole food groceries will carry pie pumpkins throughout the pumpkin season. Some things never get left behind in terms of what we are raised on. I will always much prefer pumpkin to sweet potato pie.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 04 May 14 - 11:41 PM

OK, fresh fruit pie bakers - do you prefer tapioca or cornstarch for a thickener, or do you eschew thickeners all together?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 May 14 - 11:51 PM

Bovrilis a brand name here for a well-known brand of what is called beef-tea. Balti is a sort of curry --

Wikipedia -- A Balti (Balti: བལི་, Urdu: بلتی‎) is a type of curry served in a thin, pressed steel wok-like "balti bowl".[1] It is served in many restaurants in the United Kingdom. The consensus appears to be that the term refers to the pot in which the curry is cooked,[2][unreliable source?] rather than to any specific ingredient or cooking technique, although it is stated that it is cooked until the cooking liquid has largely evaporated. [3]
Where the Balti style of cooking originated is uncertain; some believe it to have been invented in Birmingham, England while others believe it originated in the northern Pakistani region of Baltistan in Kashmir from where it spread to Britain.[4]

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:46 AM

(off topic) Balti has a rather typical "Bengali" style to it (or Bengali-British). Other side of the Subcontinent (rather than [current] Pakistan side).

I magically made balti one day when I was making a typically Punjabi (often assumed the generic North Indian style of food) one day but changed it by adding a can of *coconut* milk!

I don't know how exactly they make balti in London, by my coconut milk concoction tasted to me "just like" the balti-s I ate there!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 05 May 14 - 02:51 AM

I have a mate who's parents were born in part of Kashmir. He sticks to the Baltistan theory.

It isn't an American pie. It just shows how pies can capture culinary imagination our side of the pond. (They are mass produced Pukka Pie and aren't exactly haute cuisine but there again, other than avoiding relegation, our season hasn't been top class either.

I have rarely seen meat pie in The States, although to be fair, I haven't always been looking.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 May 14 - 05:07 AM

No-one has mentioned those gorgeous and addictive Scottish circular mutton pies with three holes in the top. The pastry is slightly dusty and gritty on the outside, and when you heat them up, lovely grease oozes from the three holes. If this sounds disgusting it isn't, because they are to die for. Just don't dwell too long on what might be inside them. I must have eaten hundreds when I lived 'up there'.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 05 May 14 - 08:58 AM

"OK, fresh fruit pie bakers - do you prefer tapioca or cornstarch for a thickener, or do you eschew thickeners all together?"

tapioca for berry pies... & a squirt of lemon juice to balance out the sugar.

for a strawberry or rubarb pie - which is more like a fruit pie, then cornstarch or arrowroot to get that smooth texture.

I guess it's as much what you grew up with as anything...

just please not that thickened corn syrup topped with Cool Whip!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 May 14 - 09:41 AM

No one has mentioned a favorite pie from my childhood, occasionally made by my maternal grandmother and my mother: Strawberry-rhubarb.

In the back of our house lot we had rhubarb growing. Since we didn't have strawberry plants, they had to be bought at the grocery store.
In the absence of strawberries, an occasional pie was rhubarb pie
without the berry addition. Good, but not as good as strawberry-rhubarb.

Not a pie, but rhubarb sauce, served with hot, buttered toast, was a
real spring treat. Ingredients: rhubarb, sugar, and water, boiled
together. Getting the sugar content "just right" was a challenge.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 05 May 14 - 10:18 AM

Mike's mom tried everything to get him to eat rubarb in any form... no go. Then I know folks who actually eat rubarb raw from the garden. Go figure.

I prefer strawberry rubarb pie because it is tart and sweet, but not too sweet. I'd rather eat fresh strawberries than the jam or pies. Strawberry shortcake with lots of freshly whipped cream.... hmmmmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 May 14 - 12:09 PM

Here in Calgary, rhubarb is one of the first plants to rise above the ground in our "Spring," it is well-leafed out already, even beating the dandelion.

We make rhubarb pies, but prefer it without strawberries.

We prefer tapioca as a thickener, when we have to use it. Cornstarch adds a flavor we don't like.

A favorite pie of ours is blueberry, made with the small berried plants. We had the plants on our little "farm," growing wild. The fresh are not available in Calgary, but we can get them frozen at the market. The larger blueberries sold fresh here are poor in taste, and a poor substitute.

I guess Canada, which once had a large proportion of Scottish and northern English settlers, for that reason, has meat pies in most markets; good to indifferent. Also the Quebec tourtiere had spread across Canada.
Lamb is popular here, but few people like the taste of mutton and it is seldom seen in the stores. Beef, pork and chicken pies are the most common; good pasties are made here.

Not mentioned yet is Key lime. These little, strong-flavored limes used to be hard to get, but now they are available for much of the year. Lovely chiffon pies.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 May 14 - 12:29 PM

We had rhubarb crumble from our garden, but no matter how much sugar I bunged in, it was still a bit tart for me. Husband loves it though. Lovely idea to add strawberries DaveO. Must try that when strawberries come into season.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:12 PM

Rhubarb varieties vary in tartness and color.
Look in nursery catalogues for sweeter varieties. We have one that was developed in Alberta, a cultivar of Canada Red.
Canada Red is sweet, juicy and has tender stems (not stringy).

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:12 PM

I like rhubarb and strawberry too! Such a rosy concoction, perfect with vanilla custard or ice-cream.

As for thickeners, I've never used tapioca, but I have used cornflour. Having never used the former I don't know which is preferable.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 May 14 - 02:42 PM

The mysterious thing is, Q, we already have three different varieties of rhubarb in the garden, and last year they were all as sweet as anything. I think it may have something to do with the lack of rain over the past weeks, and naughty Eliza didn't put any compost on the crowns last autumn. Will belatedly stick wodges of compost on the surrounding earth and get husband to hose the patch generously. Maybe that will sweeten up the rhubarb. I notice that our Bramley apple tree has tons of blossom this spring. That means tons of juicy cooking apples in September, and tons of home-made apple pies for ourselves, the church Harvest Supper, friends and neighbours. Yum!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 05 May 14 - 08:21 PM

I have a mate who's parents were born in part of Kashmir. He sticks to the Baltistan theory.

Well he would now, wouldn't he? haha… Though "part of Kashmir" =/= Baltistan per se … more of an obscure cultural region related to Tibetans.

The food is made in a balti (a bowl-shaped vessel) and served in baltis (those silly little bowls), so I'm gonna say they called it after that. It's more like a gimmick made for non-South Asian Britons, to make it seem like it is something special beyond the old familiar "curry."

So far as it means something about the food's style, it seems to be specifying (at best) what might be called "wok-style" dishes. A default way to cook North Indian food is to stew it at length in a pot, but some dishes may be made quickly in a wok-like vessel usually called karaahi… but balti is an alternate name for that vessel. I could go on, but this is off topic already :)

Suffice to say, today's "balti" is similar to yesterday's "curry": British-born category that is broad and doesn't connect directly to a concept in India.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 06 May 14 - 03:27 AM

True. But there again, I used to tease him that it came from Birmingham.

There again, he said he was Kashmiri but was officially Pakistani. We heathen English marked the boundaries then fail to know where and what they are....

In essence, balti pie is a marketing trick and doesn't lend cuisine excellence to the concept of pie. Nice at half time though.

Gala Pie. Now you're talking.

(This is about American pies, but Americans only really understand fruity pies and meat pies of any description are the dogs bollocks. (Literally, in Korea.)

In the film American Pie, if memory of dismal films serves me well, it had to be a fruit pie of some description as a meat pie might count as beastiality?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 May 14 - 04:09 AM

And what about Starry-Gazy pie, which has fish heads sticking out of the top (gazing at the stars, get it?) A Cornish delicacy I believe. Sounds a bit, well, gruesome.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 06 May 14 - 05:07 AM

I always reckoned Batemans Good Honest Ales had fish heads in it judging by the taste.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 14 - 08:41 AM

But it isn't about American pies, it's about huckleberry pies, shepherds' pies, mince pies, apple pies...
Now in Belgium, because they didn't have Steak Tatare before the arrival of the Armerican Army in 1944, they call it Américain. I keep wondering if someone ever got tempted to put real American in it - much like Mrs Lovett did in Fleet Street, reputedly.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 May 14 - 02:43 PM

Popular American pies include chiffon, meringue, and cream pies ("Boston Cream"). Very little can be omitted.

In France, I was a fan of their fruit tarts, which are essentially open pies with fresh or lightly cooked fruit. The crust is different, and pastry cream is a frequent addition. I will put a recipe in a different thread.

Germans, Poles and East Europeans have many varieties of steak tartare, with or without the egg in the mix, usually with chopped onion.
I fondly remember a German beer garden, associated with a German club, Sangerrunde Hall, in Austin, Texas, some 50 or so years ago. A large steak tartare was 75 cents and a large mug of dark beer was 15 cents- a feast for poor students. I am told I wouldn't recognize the up-scaled place now.
I always associated the dish with the large colony of Germans in central Texas; in any case it is not an "American" invention.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: JennieG
Date: 07 May 14 - 12:13 AM

An favourite Ozzie recipe is the fruit sponge, which is called "fruit cobbler" in some other parts of the world - very lightly cooked or raw fruit topped with cake batter, then baked. Less effort than making pie crusts and probably lighter in flavour, and that crusty cake-y top is yummy. Serve with fresh cream, custard or ice cream.

Apple and rhubarb is a nice combination, especially if the apple is Golden Delicious which has enough sweetness to counteract the rhubarb's tartness. Come to think on it, there is some rhubarb in the freezer as we speak and Golden Delicious have started appearing in the local fruit shop.....could be rhubarb and apple sponge on the menu this weekend......

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 May 14 - 02:19 AM

Pineapple makes a pretty good sweetener for rhubarb, and goes well with rhubarb in pies and other baked goods.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 14 - 03:15 AM

I have a rather weird yearning for raw meat from time to time. I like to nibble the 'extra lean mince' we get from Tesco's. Steak tartare sounds lovely, BUT my bossy doc sister told me to stop eating raw meat At Once. Apparently one can get all sorts of really nasty things from uncooked meat. She usually knows her stuff, so I don't nibble any more.
Joe, I'll try your pineapple tip for sweetening rhubarb.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 07 May 14 - 03:36 AM

I put a bit of ginger in with my rhubarb Joe. Makes a crumble divine. When we get back from holiday at the weekend I expect a decent crop of the stuff. It wasn't far off when we left. I may be spending Sunday stewing it down and freezing it in batches.

Nothing wrong with raw meat Eliza. Just be careful of beast and cut. Dark meats such as beef, lamb, venison etc are fine so long as the cut isn't near the lights or giblets. I prefer my steak rare or even blue. I love tartare and carpaccio too.

An interesting aside. I always look for opportunities to bore people with old jokes. Well, in Cape town the other year a bored waiter had to put up with me asking for "crocodile carpaccio and make it snappy."

Made my day to see Mrs Musket put her head in her hands.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 06:43 AM

No response to my second post on this thread, the one word "pecan". One of my main recollections of my many trips to US is the deliciousness of pecan pie, which for some reason never seems to have caught on here. Nobody else like it or feel it worth a mention?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 06:44 AM

McLoL, McMusket...

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 May 14 - 08:47 AM

this thread just reminded me of a pie my mom would make for special company... Nesselrode pie - Bavarian cream pie with shaved unsweetened chocolate on top.

The USA is such a mish mosh of different cultures that settled in every which direction that each geographic region has some very unique customs and foods.

I remember my mom cooking and baking from scratch... and excess pie dough was rolled out and cut into strips that were then sprinkled with butter & sugar or jelly and then baked. My brother & I divyed up the cut dough and made our own creations. Nice memories.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 14 - 09:33 AM

I'm afraid I also adore raw lambs' liver and kidneys. I've eaten them for years, but my domineering sis has finally vetoed it. She says I'll become infested with flukes (or some such). She's always harping on like the Voice of Doom. She's says I should 'worm' my poor husband when he gets back from Cote d'Ivoire after a 4 week stay with his parents in August! They don't seem to have any kind of pies at all in W Africa. (not any that I've come across anyway) I wonder if it's because their food is cooked in pots boiling on charcoal fires, or grilled over the fires. Not easy to do pastry pies without a proper oven. Pity, because flour is relatively cheap, cheaper than rice.

(Sorry about this Thread Drift!)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 May 14 - 09:51 AM

take heart... you CAN bake over an open fire...

cast iron cookware with lids to hold coals & wire hangers to either suspend over the fire or legs to sit in the coals.

I recently found an Australian campfire cookbook about outback cooking - but there are plenty of info here in the states about what we would refer to as cowboy or cattlemen roundup cooking. I've even seen a cooking show on campfire cooking. Big Dutch Ovens designed for campfire use. Bake bisquits or cakes, I'm sure a pie pan could fit in one.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: pdq
Date: 07 May 14 - 10:43 AM

I suspect that pecan pie and sweet potato pie are likely to be found in the South.

Pecan may be native to the southern tip of Illinois, but its entire range corresponds to our South rather well.

I also suspect that rhubarb, apple, custard and others should be credited to the Brittish. People of English ancestry is still very common in both of the Carolinas, so their taste in cooking is still evident.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 May 14 - 11:36 AM

Sciencegeek:

cast iron cookware with lids to hold coals & wire hangers to either suspend over the fire or legs to sit in the coals.

The cast iron cooking implement(s) with legs is/are often referred to as "spiders". One of my favorite dishes (not a pie, though) is
Nebraska Spider Corn Bread, a moist, slightly sweet, eggy cornbread,
which I cook in a large cast-iron skillet in the oven. I serve it
with real maple syrup or honey.

I'm know that I've posted that recipe elsewhere in Mudcat. Search for "Spider", and I'm sure you'll find it listed in one of the corn bread threads.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 07 May 14 - 11:52 AM

Whilst I am aware of the real Dutch oven...

Where I come from it also means doing something in bed that your partner will not thank you for...

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 14 - 12:30 PM

Nothing wrong with raw meat, bought from a good butcher.

My steak also must be rare, or blue. Anyone know where the term 'blue' came from?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 May 14 - 12:42 PM

My steak also must be rare, or blue. Anyone know where the term 'blue' came from?

LOL... my father in law used to joke about how rare he liked his steak... just lead the cow over & I'll take what I want.

I've noticed that in beef, especially a thick cut, can have a dark, purplish hue before cooking. I suspect that it could be called blue... just as your veins look blue because the red blood cells are only bright red when bound to oxygen in the arteries. yeah.. the geek coming out...

aged beef has a very dark aspect to it... and lots of flavor.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 12:57 PM

"Anyone know where the term 'blue' came from?"

,.,..,

From "Yahoo answers"
--
How come 'rare' steak is called blue? When if its not cooked its red?

Best Answer: - The Unknown Chef answered 6 years ago:-
"I am a former chef and have cooked and eaten steaks cooked Blue ... the term is in reference to the blueish colour the underdone meat can have in the inside of the steak..."

.,,.

HTH

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:04 PM

PECAN PIE

Baked pie shell

Cream together 1/3 cup butter and 3/4 cup firmly packed brown sugar.

To this, beat in 3 eggs, one at a time.
Stir in:
1 cup light corn syrup
1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
1 cup broken pecans
1/4 teaspoon salt
(optional, 1 tablespoon molasses)

Fill the pie shell and bake in a moderate oven, 375F for 1/2 hour.
(Optional) In the last stages, partially cover with roasted pecan halves.

375F = 191C
1 cup = 8 oz. = 237 mm.
1 tablespoon = 15 ml

In Canada, pecan halves are available in a 1kg bag at Costco Wholesale. In the usual store, pecans are expensive. Costco also has almonds in the large bags.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:11 PM

Musket, you're getting quite fart-obsessed! If a man did 'that' in my bed, I'd immediately strike a match, light the gas and burn his bottom off!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:12 PM

Thanks for the 'blue' answers.

I remember a restaurant in Austin, Texas, that has top quality dry-aged beef.
The hanging beef could be seen through a glass window. Some had a touch of mold.

Wonderful stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:21 PM

Ah, thank you, Eliza. In my sweet yoof-ful innocence, I had not the remotest idea of what he was on about!

Ugh, the nasty coarse fellow! There is no place for any such on this driven·snow·pure forum!

Avaunt and quit our sight, O thou Rudesby!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:56 PM

The trick is to get her head under the duvet as you let rip, then there's no oxygen for her match...

Setting fire to them, now that's another subject. I kid you not, a whitewash wall behind a shop in Worksop had a scorched Tudor rose on it for years. Modesty prevents me naming the artist. Has to be a zippo. It blows other lighters and tapers out.

Back to the beef. We buy our fillet from the farm adjoining our paddocks. At 35 day, you see where the term blue comes from.....

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 14 - 03:56 PM

You're quite right Michael, he's a nasty, dirty, farty, old (?) man. He's not having ANY of my steak-and-kidney pie. Anyway he's up in the Far North a-chasing of the haggae.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Ed T
Date: 07 May 14 - 04:13 PM

So, where is the recipe for the tasty "Nebraska Spider Corn Bread" mentioned above?

Rhubarb....yuk!

It was one of those early spring plants that my Mom offered to us kids frequently for dessert , when I was a youngster.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 07 May 14 - 05:12 PM

Less of the old.....

Anyway, a Dutch Oven is a way of saying you are happy, contented and comfortable with your partner.

(I doubt Mrs Musket would hang around if I baked one but there you go ... )

Eliza. Stop agreeing with Michael. You'll give him delusions of grandeur. Put that on top of the cooking sherry and who knows where it will end?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 05:51 PM

And you stop barking orders at Eliza, ya hear, Señor Rudissimo! Whence do you imagine that such denizens of Central Yobbosville as yourself derive any authority?

I might just have mentioned before how long it must be since any remnant of referential wit must have drained right away from desperate references to the inferior products of the environmental viñedos of Jerez de la Frontera.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 07 May 14 - 08:26 PM

My mother was locally famous for her pecan pies. (West Virginia born and bred.) When I was younger it was one of my favorite holiday pies. She still bakes one for Thanksgiving and Christmas because my nephews and my son still love them. As I have gotten older intensely sweet things such as pecan pie don't appeal to me so much. Maybe a very thin sliver to take me back to my childhood.

Even though I had a large, lovely pecan tree in my backyard for a number of years after moving south, I have never made a pecan pie myself. Twas a big help to Mom, though, for me to gather and shell pecans to mail to her, as pecans have become very expensive over the years.

I've lost my touch with pie crust from lack of practice in the past 7-10 years. Ditto biscuits. For me, the crust makes the pie, regardless of the filling.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 07 May 14 - 08:27 PM

The History of Pie in America

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 08 May 14 - 02:36 AM

Actually, Sainsbury's Taste the Difference Amontillado is fairly quaffable but at a cooking price.

Performing a Dutch Oven and being able to laugh about it afterwards is a sign of comfortable contentment in a relationship.

The fact that you type such statements from the spare bedroom the following night is neither here nor there.....

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 May 14 - 04:13 AM

We've been married for many years, but my African husband would be absolutely disgusted and shocked if I even described to him a 'Dutch Oven'. Africans just don't do disgusting.
I love pecan nuts, but they are very expensive here in UK. Imagine having one's own tree! Fabulous.
Michael and Musket are two very naughty lads who need a good smacked bottom each. Stop this at once or Mrs Lovett will be making a very tasty pie indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 08 May 14 - 04:30 AM

Notice that Michael? You are a naughty lad. Serves you right for wondering what a Dutch Oven is....

Here Eliza, don't bring Africa into it. It took me a while, when working in Nigeria, to get my head around the morning greeting in the hotel breakfast room, enquiring of the length....

Mrs Musket has never experienced a Dutch Oven, for what it is worth. She's never smacked my bottom for that matter. We do have a greyhound who can (and does) give you an indication of how it must feel to experience a Dutch Oven though..

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 May 14 - 05:43 AM

Oooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Elizaaaaaaaaaa

Promises promises

☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝

ɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷ

❣❣❣❣❣❣❣

❢❢❢❢❢

〠❤❤♥~M~♥❤❤〠

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 08 May 14 - 05:56 AM

Michael. Are you losing your ability to type HTML or did you mean to have a line of raised fingers followed by a line of bums?

I ask merely as a denizen of Yobbsville Central. (The estate agent said it was a rather reassuringly expensive little village that the scum couldn't afford to live in (he really did, I had to jump in before Mrs Musket's mouth opened.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 May 14 - 06:09 AM

Of course. Here are a few more, to illustrate Eliza' promise ---

☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝
ɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷ

So wossamatta with you ~~ frit or what?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 May 14 - 08:58 AM

Right, so who's first eh? (Sleeves rolled up and VERY scary face)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 08 May 14 - 09:15 AM

Not if it includes a single digit I shan't. The prostrate was checked only last year thank you very much.

Was that scary face or scared face?

It's alright for Michael, he has empathy with Noel Coward but I have had a sheltered life.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 May 14 - 05:07 PM

'Scary' Musket. My face has struck terror into many an erring breast.

(Were you 'prostrate', by the way, when undergoing your medical examination by the doc?)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 08 May 14 - 06:44 PM

*#%!!! Auto spell.

Prostate. Prostate.

Each one of those tried to correct to prostrate. Methinks Apple is in denial.

In any case, no probs. still four pints minimum before excusing myself and if I was skint, I could get a job in mucky films.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 14 - 07:30 PM

The juveniles are taking over-

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 08 May 14 - 08:21 PM

Eyup.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,#
Date: 08 May 14 - 11:04 PM

Rhubarb

It's one of those things you like or don't. If you do, try fresh raw rhubarb dunked in some white sugar.

Stewed rhubarb that is still tart (don't sweeten it too much) is a great topping for vanilla ice cream.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: LadyJean
Date: 08 May 14 - 11:14 PM

If you can track down a recipe, chess pie is very good. It's a sort of vanilla cream pie, that you find mostly in the south. Though there's a recipe book out there, Hossier Mama's Book of Pies, with a chess pie recipe.

Grasshopper Pie sounds revolting, but it's made with chocolate and creme de menthe.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 May 14 - 12:55 AM

My mum made walnut pie more frequently than pecan pie - made the same way. We actually preferred it; walnuts are far more common in the western US than pecans.

Incidentally, raise your hand- how many here pronounce 'pecan'
"peek un"? I had never heard it pronounced that way until we moved to Virginia. On the west coast it is normally pronounced "pekahn".

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 09 May 14 - 10:12 PM

I pronounce it peCAHN (or peKHAN) rather referring to the tree of the pie. From West Virginia. Where I have lived in the south, near the northern most area of it's natural range, on the Piedmont of NC, there is a tremendous variation in the ways people pronounce it, including variations that denote referring to the tree or referring to the pie or another dish that includes pecan nuts in it's title.

PEE CAN, PEE CAHN, peCANN. PEE cahn.

Great, beautiful, (messy) shade trees, regardless of how one pronounces them, and regardless of particular cultivar or species. I miss many things about living 10 miles east from where I live now, but most of all, I miss the large pecan tree that shaded the house from the hot afternoon suns of summer and early fall, and provided such bounty of nuts and good work sitting out at the picnic table under the hemlock on cool November Saturdays, shelling pecans to freeze, give as gifts, raw or roasted, or sell at the farmers market.

But favorite pie is still probably Apple. Love the simplicity. Make the crust, peel and slice the apples directly into the bottom shell. Add spices and a little butter, a little flour or cornstarch, no measuring needed, just eye-ball it and factor in how tart the apples tasted raw...

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 10 May 14 - 03:21 AM

Juvenile pie.

I'm sure Q has the recipe.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 14 - 12:02 PM

Juvenile pie- start with one Musket.....

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 May 14 - 01:28 PM

'juvenile' is infinitely better than 'senile' like me!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 10 May 14 - 01:28 PM

You gotta get taste from somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 14 - 01:34 PM

From The Juvenile Instructor and Companion:

Dean Swift once called on a lady, who overdid her welcome.
"What will you have to eat? Will you take apple pie, sir? or gooseberry pie, sir? or currant pie, sir? Or cherry pie, sir? or plunmpie, sir? Or will you take pigeon pie, sir?
At last the man was wearied, and he cried out sharply, "any pie, madam, but magpie."

Worth noting by those who continue to belabor a point over and over until the impact is mush.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 14 - 01:37 PM

Perhaps I should have posted this in the thread Mudcat "language"
A magpie or several are holding forth there.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: pdq
Date: 10 May 14 - 01:52 PM

If you hold a magpie up-side-down in the palm of your hand and stroke its stomach, it becomes very placid and acts like it is asleep.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 10 May 14 - 01:55 PM

Strawberries, luscious strawberries, are now in season here, with lots of places to go "U Pick." I'm not fond of strawberry pies held together with their sugary gelatinous sauce, but love their kin, strawberries and shortcake.

I use a sweet short biscuit recipe (USA definition) A recipe from an older addition of the Joy of Cooking, texturally about half-way between a scone and and a biscuit. I make my own whipped cream, not very sweet and sweetener is honey, and local strawberries, also tossed with a little honey. Bake and slice the biscuits. Top bottom half generously with strawberries. Put the lid on, drizzle with juice from the strawberries, add another spoonful of strawberries, a dollop of whipped cream, a few more strawberries and another drizzle of juice from the berries.

Although not so sweet, not healthy - with all the butter and cream. The taste of local, ripe strawberries really shines. Lovely moment of decadence to dig into.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 10 May 14 - 03:09 PM

This scene from 'The Help' - written from the perspective of black maids in the South of the US during the 60's civil rights movement - is worth a watch.
Minny's "special" chocolate pie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO0vpOi_5V0

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: pdq
Date: 10 May 14 - 04:05 PM

old Nursery Rhyme...



Sing a song of sixpence,
A pocket full of rye;
Four and twenty blackbirds,
Baked in a pie.

When the pie was opened,
The birds began to sing;
Wasn't that a dainty dish
To set before the King?

The King was in his counting-house
Counting out his money;
The Queen was in the parlor
Eating bread and honey;

The maid was in the garden
Hanging out the clothes.
There came a little dicky bird,
And popped upon her nose!

Source: Elliott, Nursery Rhymes and Nursery Songs (1870)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 14 - 07:31 PM

In the oven tonight, a wonderful elk and yam pie, made with some port wine and other goodies, from an elk ranch in the foothills.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 14 - 01:47 PM

Reminds me of the recipe for horse and rabbit pie. One horse, one rabbit. Enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Ed T
Date: 12 May 14 - 10:15 AM

A couple of meat type pie variations that seem interesting:

Shepherds Pie with cheesy parsnip mash

desperate dan's cow pie 

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 May 14 - 03:39 PM

Well- it does have the shape of a Western American/Canadian cowpie, which is the pancake-like fecal dropping of a cow.


Actually, a rather interesting recipe, open to variations.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 12 May 14 - 06:03 PM

Anyone want to read a depraved version of "Sing a Song of Sixpence?"

On a related matter, although blackbird pie may or may not be edible, meat pie is sometimes known as "four & twenty pie."

The Balti Pie I referred to earlier is often referred to, when we are at the match, "Go and get us a rat's coffin our lad."

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: JennieG
Date: 13 May 14 - 02:08 AM

Here in Oz there is a brand of commercially available meat pies - "Four'N Twenty".

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 13 May 14 - 03:16 AM

Another interesting article on the history (evolution) of pies

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 May 14 - 03:27 AM

I have seen the brand when in Oz Jennie.

There again, I have had a pea floater in Melbourne, yet ask for a pea floater over here.....

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 May 14 - 03:45 AM

'Rat's Coffin' Musket. LOL!

I like pies with plenty of gelatine among the meat. And 'raised pies' such as pork pies are very very nice. There are two traditional family butchers shops in Aylsham, Norfolk UK. They make their own pork pies, and you buy a 'family sized' one, but eat the lot yourself at one sitting. They're even better than Melton Mowbray pork pies, and that's saying something.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 13 May 14 - 03:50 AM

Realizing how narrow my definition of pies is, defined by a very narrow view and sensibility regarding crust. Especially with regard to American pies, which includes Central and South America and Native American with their cross cultural traditions of empanadas, samosas, chimichangas, baked or fried, made with corn or wheat flour, or grated yucca vs potato "crusts."

Central and South American pastry doughs are much more likely to include eggs and are influenced by long cross-cultural pollination from Spain, the Middle East and Asia. Likely to be crisp, whether baked or fried.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 13 May 14 - 10:26 AM

By special request, just for Ed T (Any anyone else who's interested)

On Sunday mornings I make a fairly elaborate breakfast for my family. This morning, it included my all-time favorite cornbread recipe, as follows:

Nebraska Spider* Corn Bread

1-1/4 cups corn meal (preferably the rough ground, non defatted kind)
1 Tbs light brown sugar
1 tsp soda (note, not baking powder, but soda)
1 tsp salt
3 Tbsp melted butter for the batter
2 eggs, beaten
2 cups buttermilk
3 Tbsp fat for the spider*

Mix the dry ingredients and add the liquids which have been mixed together. Melt the spider-fat in a 10-inch spider (iron skillet), tip pan so sides are greased, and add the batter. Bake 20 minutes at 375 degrees. Cut in wedges and serve hot with butter (as if you need yet MORE butter!). I always serve this with honey or sorghum syrup. This is soft, really too soft to pick up and eat, I think, so you'll need forks.

*"spider" in this case is not an arachnid, but an iron skillet. In times gone past, it would have three legs cast as part of it, so that it could sit the in coals of a fire and bake. Thus the descriptive term "spider".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 May 14 - 01:44 PM

The above is close to our skillet corn bread, but we use white corn meal.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 13 May 14 - 04:10 PM

"Well- it does have the shape of a Western American/Canadian cowpie, which is the pancake-like fecal dropping of a cow.

Actually, a rather interesting recipe, open to variations."

My favorite variation came from Art Thieme's story about moose turd pie... but good, though!   :D

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Jeri
Date: 13 May 14 - 04:31 PM

Art Thieme's story about Moose Turd Pie was probably Utah Phillips' story about Moose Turd Pie.

Why isn't cheesecake considered a pie?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 May 14 - 04:50 PM

A friend and I were once convulsed in giggles outside a Thai restaurant in Norwich, reading the menu at the door. They were offering Kao Pat. Honestly, this is a real Thai dish. ('Cow pat' is what we call cow's poo out in the fields.) I don't know what Kao Pat consists of but I jolly well hope it isn't that!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: JennieG
Date: 13 May 14 - 05:51 PM

Musket, I trust you enjoyed your pie floater - I always thought they were 'pie' floaters rather than 'pea' floaters. They seem to have originated in South Australia, those crow eaters are a hardy bunch.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 14 May 14 - 11:00 AM

Might be a trade name issue. Certainly called pea floaters at the place I had them..

We have them here of course, and a pie & pea supper is a usual draw to a charity evening. But floater, pie or pea by name seems to be an Oz term of reference.

Eliza. I assume they got their spelling wrong. Kao Pad is a fried rice dish. It can also be spelt Khao, meaning fried. Pad is rice. A few months ago, in Bangkok I had it with a thin omelette laid over the top as a breakfast most mornings. Yum.

Cow pats have an altogether different taste...... My dog could tell you all about them.

And horse eggs...

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 14 - 11:36 AM

"Realizing how narrow my definition of pies is, defined by a very narrow view and sensibility regarding crust. Especially with regard to American pies, which includes Central and South America and Native American with their cross cultural traditions of empanadas, samosas, chimichangas, baked or fried, made with corn or wheat flour, or grated yucca vs potato "crusts."

Most of what you cited are forms of dumplings... a world wide way of preparing food using local ingredients.

Pie & tarts.... breads... pastries... pastas(shaped or filled) and then dumplings which can include filled dough or any number of varietions. boy... am I hankering for some nice dim sum right now... :)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: gnu
Date: 14 May 14 - 01:06 PM

This is among the most delightful threads I have read at Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 May 14 - 02:10 PM

Food with crusts are so varied that some sort of classification is needed.
Some "terms" I use- and not rigidly-
Pie- circular or rectangular, baked with bottom and/or top crust. Meat, fruit, vegetable or whatever. (French tarts are a delicious variety.

Pastry, stuffed and fried. Empañadas and similar
Pastry, filled, meat or mixed
Burritos
Cannelloni
Tamales
Stuffed pancakes- fruit, meat, whatever
Wellington-type , puff pastry, etc. Baked usually.

Dumplings- stuffed pastry cooked in broth, stews, whatever.

Others I can't think of at the moment. Won't refuse any of them.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 14 May 14 - 02:41 PM

food for thought... ouch... lol

completely forgot about quiche... a frittata with a crust

variations of chicken & dumplings, including adding bisquit mix into the bubbling stew for the final minutes.. chicken & bisquits without the oven. note- no, not cookie mix... google it..

bread dumplings, potato dumplings, liverklasse...

ravioli... perogie and its many central european cousins

obviously, I did not have enough to eat for lunch... lol

fruit dumplings... swimming in butter & cinnamon sugar

what's that line from little shop of horrors? feed me, I'm hungry

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 14 May 14 - 02:41 PM

Musket, if one Googles 'Kao Pat' (sic), one can immediately see a selection of photos showing what look like large plates of cold sick.
I have to add that I adore nearly all kinds of foreign food. I had a lovely Hong Kong friend called Betty Ko at Uni, and she introduced me to several absolutely delicious Cantonese dishes. I've also eaten some extremely dubious stuff in W Africa. (No pies though - as I said earlier, they don't seem to know pies.) My husband has several times been reduced to eating rat, cooked in its skin on some tiny pieces of charcoal. Poor man, he must have an iron constitution! His fav food nowadays is my home-made steak and kidney pie. Better than rat anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 14 May 14 - 03:47 PM

"American pies, which includes Central and South America and Native American with their cross cultural traditions of empanadas, SAMOSAS, chimichangas, baked or fried, made with corn or wheat flour"

Not to put too fine a point on it, but samosas are neither Central or South American. They are from India and such parts. You perhaps were thinking of Anastasio Somoza, who was a Central American dictator.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 14 May 14 - 03:53 PM

oh dear, left off spanakopita... Greek spinach pie with delicate phillo dough.

gotta stop thinking about food!!!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 14 May 14 - 05:11 PM

Large plates of cold sick are good. Especially with a thin spicy omelette laid over it to disguise the sick.

Any road up, it is served hot...

In many ways, it looks fairly similar to Cantonese fried rice dishes of similar ingredients but of course with fragrant lemon grass, fish sauce and the slightly aniseed quality of Thai basil.

Be buggered if I'll make a pie from it though.

On that subject, I harvested my first crop of rhubarb at the weekend.

Rhubarb crumble makes you rumble
Rhubarb tart makes you fart.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Janie
Date: 14 May 14 - 05:30 PM

Yeh, I hesitated to include the Samosas. They actually originated in the Mid-East, and spread to the Near East, parts of Africa and India, also to Portugal and former Portuguese colonies. Thy have long been common fare in Brazil, according to the Brazilian lady who makes and sells them at our local farmer's market.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 May 14 - 07:16 PM

Had a quesadilla for lunch today.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 15 May 14 - 03:42 AM

Did he have scintillating conversation?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Ed T
Date: 15 May 14 - 07:13 PM

The Samosa