BS: World Cup

Subject: BS: World Cup
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 04:43 AM

Wot, says Mr Chad, -- no thread on the World Cup yet?

Well, then, inevitably, here goes.

To kick off [geddit?]: what the hell happened to Rooney last night? Couldn't do a thing right, poor guy. Missed a sitter, and two or three other quite easy shots; selfishly robbed Hailey of the ball without a by-your-leave when he was on a good run near goal and then missed with his own shot; kicked a corner straight off for a goal-kick, which nobody ever does except 11-year-old schoolboys ... I could go on. Pathetic performance. I repeat, what the hell happened to him?

a BTW: watching Greece lose to Colombia in the World Cup last night, I remarked to Emma that at least the Greeks would be sure to be philosophical in defeat -- esp as they had a player called Sokrates.

And,another BTW, going back many many years to my teaching days: I have happy memories of a mental image raised by an essay written by a boy in praise of his hero Bobby Charlton, who had done so much to help England win that sacred World Cup all those years ago. "Bobby Charlton has a brother Jack," he added at one point, " who also played for England in the WC."

Way to go...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 05:33 AM

My husband spent ages yesterday tying England flags to the front of our house, (It looks a bit naff, but I don't interfere.) He stayed up to watch the match and was a bit grumpy this morning so I assumed England hadn't done well. Rooney is his absolute hero, so I bet he was disappointed if the man played as you relate. He also intends to stay up to watch Cote d'Ivoire play in their matches. I go to bed at 10.30pm and sleep like a top until 6am. All these nocturnal excitements pass me by!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 05:54 AM

FECK, the world cup!!

Do you guys KNOW what Brazil is actually DOING? Genocide, Ecocide, $30BILLION spent on fecking football whilst her people live in squalor and hunger...

Chief Raoni and his nephew, Chief Megaron have been all over Europe these past days, to raise awareness of what's happening over there, of the grave danger we are ALL in.......I was honoured to meet them both on Tuesday and here is my report on what they had to say....


Of Chiefs & Children - The London Visit of Chief Raoni & Chief Megaron

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 06:26 AM

Start your own thread, Lizzie. You will impress nobody by trying to 'FECK' up mine, darling. What's more, you know it...

You may not like it, but quite a lot of people in the world are quite interested in the occasion; which will go on at that, in spite of your moans and animadversions.

So just live with it, eh?

Luv

☯~Michael~☯

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 07:13 AM

she's got animadversions.......poor dear!

i can't believe a man with your vocabulary would find distraction in a game that has made us all sick as a parrot. a mere bagatelle. it a bit like hitler and jesse owens. you can't ignore someone being a shit - just because you're having a game of footie.

anyway - what is there to say. the best world cup i ever saw the one in argentina - and they were a gang of fascist gits running argentina at the time.

think you're wasting your time lizzie - but you carry on if it makes sense. i think most people will just get off on the glamour and spectacle of the occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 07:25 AM

Your thread is entitled 'World Cup'...

HERE is what is going on BEHIND that World Cup you are so enjoying watching..and it will affect ALL of us.

2 minutes long. I'm sure, Michael, that you can spare just 2 minutes out your thread to help Chief Raoni spread the word...as his people are facing Genocide. Thank you.

SOS AMAZONIA - What is happening behind The World Cup


Al, if I gave up, or had never started, as you've chosen to do, then there would be no point in anything, would there. As it is, there is now a World Movement rising, against The World Cup, against Brazil's government....

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 08:04 AM

I thought they showed potential and enough flexibility in the squad to have answers from the bench. I agree with Alan Shearer though that they turn off during set pieces and see free kicks as a break from concentration, as the first Italy goal showed. The comeback showed the positive temperament Hodgson has instilled in them.

Ok, a more central role for Rooney would help. Welbeck can take the ball from defenders but not seeing much dispossession otherwise. Gerrard needs to come forward more, and Let's hope Henderson can cover.

The most positive sign for the future was Sterling.

They haven't made it easy for themselves but I took more positives than negatives from the match. Other than the ruddy score.

Thoroughly enjoying this World Cup to date. Plenty of goals for the armchair excitement, some bloody good players at the top of their game. I haven't seen any negative play yet, nobody playing the draw. Look at Spain as a good example, tried playing their way out. It didn't work but they didn't put ten men behind the ball.

Millions of people look forward to international bun fights such as The World Cup, and although FIFA needs huge reform, (Qatar isn't their finest hour) the misery merchants can be safely ignored and marginalised for a few weeks whilst normal people enjoy the spectacle.

CCCEERRRMMMM. OOONNN. EEENNNGGEERRLLLAAAAAAANNNNDDDD!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 08:11 AM

"In football everything is complicated by the presence of the opposite team."

― Jean-Paul Sartre

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 08:51 AM

"They haven't made it easy for themselves but I took more positives than negatives from the match."

As did I. Still, it seems to me there isn't much hope tho I will still cheer them all the (short?) way. As for Rooney, well, He seems to be on a steady course of decline mentally and physically.

BTW... Liz... I do not read any of your posts anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,allan Conn
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 11:04 AM

Rooney did set the goal up. He was played out of his favoured position though

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 11:20 AM

One thing is for certain - there is no longer a requirement to possess a Roman Nose in order to be selected for the Italian team!!!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 11:28 AM

Hi

I agree that there were several positives to take from the game. The game itself was quite enjoyable. No diving, acting etc etc and both teams trying to go forward.

As for individuals, Rooney did not have a great game but, he is not being played in his most effective position. Why pick your best striker and play him completely out of position??

We did not do enough in mid-field and I thought Henderson was invisible after one early shot on goal. Johnson can't tackle and his distribution is pathetic. Baines was overrun most of the time and his "famous" corners and free kicks were all wasted.

On a brighter note Sterling ran at the Italians and caused them problems although his final ball often wasn't good. Welbeck was industrious and his speed got him around a lot. Sturridge looked dangerous and will do better if we can give him more service.

We will need to play better if we are to progress further. On last night's performance I don't see them standing much chance against the likes of Germany, Holland, Argentina Brazil and the rest.

Cheers - happy viewing

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 11:44 AM

The Canadian men's national soccar team decided to support the Brazil boycot, not to play in the cuo games in Brazil...(yes, it was also because their seasons ranking was 110th - but, that was a mostly a peripheral issue).

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 11:46 AM

Woops, cuo = cup

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 12:28 PM

Trust Bozo to come up with a gratuitous racist comment...

The best goal so far - one for the ages - was the header by Netherlands'
Van Persie who connected with a 50-yard pass. Brilliant!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Stu
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 12:29 PM

"Ok, a more central role for Rooney would help"

Didn't Hodgson play him in his favoured club position in the second half though? Him and Gerrard seem to be in some sort of alternate realities when on the pitch, hardly linking up. Apart from his cross in to Sturridge (which was a belter) he looks so uncomfortable when playing for England.

Also, Glen Johnson looks positively pedestrian and lacking imagination when going forward.

Apart from that though, I thought England played positively and it was good to see some attacking football and positive substations.

I like Sterling too: he reminds me of Tony Daley in his heyday.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 01:29 PM

Ed... "peripheral issue" Hahahahahaa!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 01:56 PM

Yes, indeed, a most welcome absence of diving, playacting, serious fouls, grabbing of shirts and limbs, wrestling & shoving while waiting for corners &c. A really nice, old-fashioned, gentlemanly game, in fact; credit to both teams.

Long may it...!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 05:49 PM

Sorry, but there are times when only personal attacks will suffice.

Lizzie, You are an arsehole. And a stupid one at that.

There. It may be deleted, and I am not even a football fan so I don't care. But it needed to be said.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 05:31 AM

not very nice Dave - she's entitled to her opinion. I suppose the point is that its trade shop window. people say - if they can put something like this together. perhaps its a place we can invest in.

anyway its a game of two halves - and the side that doesn't let as many goals in as the other - has, in fact, an excellent chance of winning.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 05:49 AM

The opinion is fine, Al. It is the barrage of it on any post that gets me down. But, yes, it isn't very nice. It wasn't intended to be :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 06:36 AM

The thread is about football, not the moral dimension of the Brazilian government.

Unless Lizzie can help explain why we didn't bring on Ross Barkley a bit sooner, or move Rooney to a more centre forward position and have Gerrard feed him more, there's not much point in her contribution really.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 10:09 AM

I suppose one could point out that many of the participating countries have terrible problems with poverty, corruption, oppression and lack of human rights. But the point of a world sporting competition, I would have thought, is to put all that temporarily to one side and bring peoples together for a superb sportfest. This could influence nations to change by example and contact. I don't see how the football does much harm, and millions around the world are getting immense pleasure from all the excitement. We have a nice big England flag tied on the house, and some smaller ones too. My husband is rapt with them and has put photos of these flags on his Facebook page. My sis up in Scotland saw them and remarked that she dare not do the same, as the Scottish Independent lunatics would put a brick through her window!
(I hardly dare confess that we had to buy a copy of The Sun to get the big flag free. What a strange paper that is. It went straight in the bin of course.)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 11:49 AM

I think you have hit the nail on the head there.Eliza

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 11:59 AM

I'm no fan of the modern game but caught a bit of the France/Honduras game last night. Sickening play - mainly, but not totally - from Honduras.

Sport? My arse.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 01:04 PM

Typing this at halftime in Germany v Portugal. Germany got a penalty 10 minutes in. Then one Portuguese player off already for horrible, punch-in-face, foul followed by headbutting his victim as he lay on the ground.

Will say again what a pleasing oasis in all this unseemliness was provided by the England v Italy match, where there were no serious fouls, and few even slight ones, no diving, rolling or other play-acting; but just an enjoyable gentlemanly straightforward match.

What is it, BTW, with this rolling over&over affectation that every player who falls over these days seems to need to indulge in? When one falls over, one doesn't roll like that, whatever the impetus. You would think they were playing on a 45º slope!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: selby
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 03:02 PM

I have decided to boycott the current England side until they pick Bobby Charlton he is a proper player!!!!!!!!
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 04:24 PM

Ho way the lads!

Can't wait till Thursday night.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 06:00 PM

Eliza there is and always has been a real rivalry in football and yes many, I'd say probably most, Scots like to see England beaten. It was so long before the rise of the SNP and has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with football.

I can't imagine there are many bricks put through windows though. It could of course happen but I would imagine it would be very rare indeed and of course things like that happen elsewhere in the UK as much as they do in Scotland. If there is football violence though it has nothing to do with the SNP or referendum. It has to do with thuggery.

I remember a case prior to the devolution referendum when Channel 4 wanted to film a documentary on anti-Englishness in Scotland. They put two guys in England rugby shirts and sent them along Rose Street to be picked on. Of course Edinburgh being Edinburgh they were basically ignored. So the producers thought let's go to Glasgow they'll get into bother there. Unfortunatly all that happened in Glasgow was that people bought them drinks and told them that football was a proper game. So the producers then had a bright idea of decking a car in the union jack and leaving it. It got bricked and the producers thought "yipee we've got our anti-Englishness" but then it was pointed out that the car had been left in Parkhead and the car was almost certainly bricked because it was taken for a Rangers supporter's car. Nothing to do with anti-Englishness. They had to admit defeat and abandon the programme.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 06:07 PM

When they rebuilt Wembley, they had to knock down some very old parts of English heritage.

Except the goal post at one end.

That wasn't quite so old I recall. Got replaced for some reason. Can't quite put my finger on it........

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 06:10 PM

I can remember one or two minor incidents in Scotland during World Cups but nothing like this below. Nor the other tragic incident where a young Russian lad was stabbed to death because he was mistaken for a German.

http://hoolinews.co.uk/hoolinews2.php?2004|66

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 06:18 PM

I don't think my sis was entirely serious about bricks through her window Allan, but her area (Perthshire, between Dundee and Perth) seems to have a large and strident Nationalist contingent. I doubt if anyone in her village has England flags hanging on their house. She actually adores Scotland and wouldn't ever leave. I do hope I didn't offend you by my post? If so, it wasn't intended and I'm truly sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 06:28 PM

Come on Musket we are not talking about that which was celebrations gone OTT and of course in the decades that followed Scotland fans got repeated plaudits for good, friendly, if admittedly drunken behaviour. We are talking about people or their property getting attacked in their own homes or in the street etc because they display their national colours during televised tournaments. It could possibly happen in Scotland. I'm not suggesting that it is not a possibility. But it is no more likely to happen in Scotland than anywhere else and I can't remember any incidents like those I've posted above happening in Scotland during tournaments overseas! And the idea that if there was football related violence directed towards England supporters then it would be by SNP voters is silly and more than a wee bit ignorant to be quite truthful. There is plenty grumping at each other in the referendum between Scottish Unionists and Scottish Nats but any incidents of violence have been very, very rare and I know of none specifically directed towards English incomers. Sorry but the idea had to be brought to heel. We have our serious football trouble and it is called religious sectarianism. So we're no goody two shoes. Basically though it would be nice to have a thread relating to England without someone having an unnecessary pop at Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 06:37 PM

Fair do Eliza I accept you didn't mean it but when one reads that soemone can't put their flag up because of "Scottish Independent lunatics" then you can maybe see that it doesn't read well.

Of course there are lots of people out canvassing etc and the Yes campaign is stronger at the grass roots level and the area you mention is a traditionally strong SNP area.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,#
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 09:21 PM

It's become a travesty. However, it does provide a wonderful place for like-minded people to meet. Doesn't matter who is tossed aside. Great game.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 05:09 AM

next match on Thursday - they're dragging it out a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 05:36 AM

Sectarianism. Isn't that something to do with religion dictating your football team?

Sorry Allan. My joke got the defensive response I would expect. Tolerance isn't a word I use much when referring to communities in Scotland.

Anyway.

We are talking World Cup. Nothing to do with Ally's Tartan Army. {snigger}

Fingers crossed Rooney gets a more central role and Gerrard gets to go forward more. Counting the minutes to Thursday night.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 05:41 AM

If they were dragging it out should it not be referred to as a transvestite rather than a travesty?

I'll get my coat...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 06:05 AM

You're quite right Musket in certain areas of Scotland sectarianism is still a problem. I wasn't suggesting we didn't have our problems. We have enough without imagined new ones.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 07:30 AM

". . . I'd say probably most, Scots like to see England beaten."

Odd though. We always support all the home nations in everything, always have done. I support Villa first (grew up in Brum), England at footy (born there), and Wales at rugby (due to the my maternal side of the family being largely Welsh). After that, whomever's left in any competition from our islands gets my support. We're all one people, see. Luckily, the more enlightened Scots I know are happy to support England.

"It has to do with football."

Er, righto. That's just how it comes across.

"Basically though it would be nice to have a thread relating to England without someone having an unnecessary pop at Scotland."

Ah, that old sense of victimhood. The English get a constant barrage for the ills of empire and everything that's happened on these islands since 1066, off everyone. Best ignore the ignorant tosspots in my opinion, and play to your (our) strengths.


Meanwhile, in the football...

Impressed with Germany and looking forward to the Brazil/Mexico match tonight. Happy the England squad seem settled and unpressured and hope that they play as positively on Thursday as they did on Sunday. They're in with a chance (especially if they sort out their set piece blind spot).

Enjoying some great football! I love to see all these players from across the world in the same competition, a real treat.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 12:13 PM

I dunno Iran looked like a load of dirty sods and Nigeria were a bit disappointing.

I suppose in Iran women aren't allowed to play football. couldn't be any worse than the men.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 02:21 PM

Brazil/Mexico is on my list. Unfortunately, I shall only get to hear a lot of it as the TV is at the other end of the house from my desk. Of course, upon loud cheering, there will be a mad dash made.

I also was impressed with Germany Then again, there is an awful lot of football to be played.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Musket
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 03:26 PM

Rather than dragging it out Al, I'm impressed that the fixtures allow the matches so close together. Although I am sure the coaching staff would like a longer gap to map out tactics and team selection. Too many limping off, and I don't just mean the physio...

Next Tuesday is cutting it fine. I leave London at 3.00, into Doncaster for 4.30 and at least 35 mins journey for a 5.00 kick off. I'd throw a sicky but we are discussing sickness and absence rates ......

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 06:15 PM

Some people do support all the Home Teams Stu. Many don't. Plenty instances of it like the old England song sung on the terraces to the tune of thet Monkees' song "Poor old Craigie Brown...oh what can it mean....for a sad Scottish bastard and a crap football team". Likewise when I returned from Spain 82 all you heard on the TV re the fans was "Bonnie bonnie Scotland...what's it liek to be back home". Euro 96 when the parachutes came down in Wembley with country's flags only 2 got booed. Germany and Scotland. The idea that everyone in England supports Scotland is a non-starter. And to tell you the truth who cares? We have 5 million fans we don't need any more.

The change has been in England itself. In the last few decades there seems to have been a real drop in confidence. In the 60s and 70s they knew Scots wanted them beat (and of course you could swap Scots for Welsh or Irish) and they laughed it off. It was taken as the daft sport's rivalry that it was. Denis Law felt no qualms about going on Parkinson and saying he had to play golf in 1966 when England were playing Germany because he couldn't bare to watch in case they won. Everyone just laughed and of course a few of the England team were his mates. Likewise the likes of Alan Ball and Mick Channon made it clear how much they loved and needed to beat Scotland. Not many in Scotland thought any worse of them. It is sport and they are the oldest sporting rivalry in the football world. I think it has been lost a bit in England now as Scotland have slid down the rankings, the yearly fixture has long ended, and Germany and Argentina have overtaken Scotland as the teams the English love to beat. England remains the hate team for Scots though. Probably the being in bed with an elephant thing. It may be silly but it is sport. Just a game and not politics or racism. It'd be like saying Man City fans are anti Manchester because they want Man Utd beaten.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 06:30 PM

And as to the victim hood thing. Sorry but you won't, or at least I don't think you will, find me posting things blaming England for everything since 1066. In fact in another post the other day I pulled a poster up for suggesting that Glencoe was England's fault. We Scots were perfectly capable of murdering our own. All I'm saying is there has been a tendency for posts about or relating to England to then have an element of having a go at Scotland develop in them. Tedious enough were it true but when it is relating to the fear of Scots nats lunatics bricking the windows of English people then it needs comment. No such thing has happened or has even threatened to happen. The debate is not an anti-English debate and even about a third of English born people living in Scotland support independence. You Stu may not care how other posters view Scotland but as a Scot I do. Just wanted people to know that the suggestion was way off the mark

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 12:16 AM

Indeed, Allan; all true. A pity how things have changed, tho: like when Andy Murray made his famous [or infamous] "Anyone but England" crack a few years back, he lost a lot of goodwill because too many people didn't even realise it was a joke.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 01:17 AM

Michael refers to that great British winner who for a few years was that Scottish loser.

Dave channel had a programme showing the all time best England goals. Coming in at number 4, I think it was (number 1 in my book) was where Gazza chipped the ball over Braveheart's head, ran round him and scored on the volley.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 01:36 AM

That Gazza goal #1 in my book too, indeed Muskie. Can't ever remember quite such a perfect display of football skill & control.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 03:17 AM

What about Bobby Charlton's goal v Mexico in 1966?
Anyway anyone know a decent pub in Tiverton where I can watch the match tomorrow night?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup
From: Stu
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 07:08 AM

" England remains the hate team for Scots though."

One issue is the endless harping back to 1966 by all and sundry in England. There seems to be a certain part of the media and fan base that assume because we invented the game we should be the best at it. This sense of entitlement is pretty cringeworthy at the best of times and the constant banging on about 1966 narks me off ;-)