BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA

Subject: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 02:26 PM

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/06/23/detroit_shuts_off_water_for_residents_united_nations_asked_to_help.html

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 02:41 PM

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/06/20/3451488/detroit-water-shutoffs-complaint/

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 02:43 PM

http://www.occupy.com/article/apartheid-detroit-water-corporations-not-people

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 02:44 PM

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/6/24/water_is_a_human_right_detroit

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 08:14 PM

From Detroit Free Press.

323,000 customers.
150,000 delinquent water accounts.
$118 million in outstanding bills

April, 44,200 shutoff notices mailed;
Water cut off to 3025 properties, both commercial and residential.
Targeted are customers who are more than two months late.
65 percent come in to make a payment after water is shut off.

Average monthly water bill $75.00

The city has approved an 8.7% increase in water bills.
The system is old and needs repairs and replacements.

The City is in receivership.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 08:27 PM

The factories have moved elsewhere, and jobs are scarce. Detroit is just one of several cities who have lost their purpose.

After the depression of 1929, Pennsylvania and New Jersey cities faced a similar situation.

Boom and Bust has been a facet of capitalism since the early 1800s; Europe has faced similar situations.
UK- depression in 1857-58, the first global recession.
UK- Panic of 1873 (lasted into the 1890s)
UK- 1010-1921
etc.

Failure of governments to effect controls.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 09:49 PM

First of all, posting four separate article saying essentially the same thing much from a common source is a bit of rhetorical overkill. While acknowledging, as I do, that something needs to be done to help Detroitites, I am adamantly against going to the United Nations for a domestic economic problem. There must surely be ways to take care of this without having 3rd world dictatorships dictating to us.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 10:13 PM

Hi, John. Great to 'see' you posting.

________________________________________

The following site has a really good article about a MIT study of 150 smaller cities that have and are facing the same things Detroit is. Takes five minutes.

http://sap.mit.edu/resources/portfolio/forgotten_cities/

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 10:29 PM

Incidentally, I do not agree with the title of this thread. IMO, capitalism isn't in crisis. The distribution of wealth resulting from that capitalism is in crisis, and that isn't the same thing at all.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 01:15 AM

Richest country on earth. Land of the free.

Keep banging the rocks together guys.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Janie
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 02:06 AM

Good article, John. Thanks. We all have our ideologies, but if ideology only leads to either outrage or condemnation, ideologies get us no where. Not true. They get us riots in the streets and repressive legislatures. It is always encouraging to hear about attempts to actually solve problems and especially when those attempts have incremental effectivenss, as imperfect and as ideologically impure and therefore offensive as they may be to those who are married to "no solutions but the perfect solution and the perfect solution is mine" (be it to the left or to the right.)

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 02:26 AM

I agree with Guest of 10:29. Personally I think that Capitalism has many built-in flaws but I don't see this as a crisis of capitalism. Unless you mean that the devastation of Detroit came about because of the built-in flaws of capitalism culminating in 2008, in which case I would agree with you.

(I don't understand what you are saying, Janie.)

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Janie
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 02:27 AM

The Cat is being a bit squirrelly, btw. My above post, admittedly not profound, did not take after 3 tries. finally cut and pasted it it to Pages, refreshed the thread, then copied it. For those who suspect they are being censored on occasion then lied to about it not happening, please note that. Might be more interesting and erudite if boring observations such as I usually post were censored, but no one has ever believed that "boring" gets censored then denied on Mudcat. It is not unusual for posts simply to not "take."

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:32 AM

Janie, I think you were referring to Richard Bridge in your praise of the article. On his behalf, thank you.
John

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 12:57 PM

We do not need to bounce back and forth between the extremes of unfettered, corrupt capitalism and inefficient, corrupt socialism. We can admit that some people do much better under capitalism, which is my belief...and that some do not have the necessary skills, resources or personalities to navigate it..I am probably more of the latter group. We can arrange things so that people who need more structure can have places of employment that they do not have to seek out..giving them as much choice as possible of course..this would work for people with certain handicaps, people with lower energy, sometimes people with less education and skill training..there could be all sorts of greenhouses, small dairies, construction and maintenance projects in places like Detroit...and I think there are...

The true creative capitalists should not be stifled, but they should of course be regulated to avoid abuse of the environment or people. Capitalism does work very well if somewhat restrained and if properly taxed with profits diverted to the common good. The other group of people, on a quasi-socialistic plan, can provide superior food, lodging, health care, etc. for elements of society that can not obtain them otherwise. The poor should be a resource, as my Detroit roommate said, rather than a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 07:18 PM

Perhaps the poor should be thought of as people. Capitalism does not do that.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 07:19 PM

Capitalism is people in action.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 08:23 PM

Not really about capitalism, this is all about politics-this quote, from this article, gives a good summary.

How Detroit Went Broke

"Detroit is broke, but it didn't have to be. An in-depth Free Press analysis of the city's financial history back to the 1950s shows that its elected officials and others charged with managing its finances repeatedly failed — or refused — to make the tough economic and political decisions that might have saved the city from financial ruin.

Instead, amid a huge exodus of residents, plummeting tax revenues and skyrocketing home abandonment, Detroit's leaders engaged in a billion-dollar borrowing binge, created new taxes and failed to cut expenses when they needed to. Simultaneously, they gifted workers and retirees with generous bonuses. And under pressure from unions and, sometimes, arbitrators, they failed to cut health care benefits — saddling the city with staggering costs that today threaten the safety and quality of life of people who live here."

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Janie
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 09:26 PM

Sorry Ebbie. Was referring to the link to the MIT study made by Guest at 10:13pm 6/24

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 10:38 PM

Richard Bridge & Musket- since it is so clear to you how the US is failing, perhaps you can explicate in some detail what we should do to solve these situations... and do, please, clarify how the UK's policies & overall system is superior.

As you formulate your replies, keep in mind the 'interesting' details of our Constitution, the position of the US Supreme Court, and the recent Gerrymandering of voting districts to ensure that such problems as Detroit is facing will continue to be decided by extreme Conservative values.

(ummm... we had one Civil War over similar value systems that Michigan is facing- we'd sort of rather not go that route again. Perhaps you'd like to reclaim your errant colony & 'administer' things?... as soon as you have dealt sensibly & fairly with YOUR immigration problems, independence movements by Scotland & Wales...etc. Let us know...)

what..me? sarcastic?... naaawwwww..

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 02:38 AM

I give you a Thumbs Up, Bill. No sarcasm meant to onlookers, of course. :)

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 02:52 AM

When I lived in Detroit as a kid in the 1950s, it was a beautiful city with all sorts of amenities one might not expect. Schools and libraries were excellent, as was the park system. I loved visiting downtown Detroit with its amazing skyscrapers and the ore boats gliding down the river. Belle Isle Park and the Detroit Zoo were amazing. And the city was safe - I could ride two or three miles from home on my bicycle, and I wasn't ten years old yet. My younger sister and I rode the city bus to visit my grandmother many times.

It was a first-class city - but first-class cities are expensive to operate. Once industry left Detroit, what was the city to do? There were no jobs, so the people moved away.

I last visited Detroit for a family reunion four years ago. I spent a week visiting places I remembered. The suburbs were still prosperous, but the City of Detroit has very few places where anyone would want to live.

It's a shame.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Musket
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 03:46 AM

Bill. It's simple.

The business of America is business.      Allegedly.

So what happens when business leaves town?

Oh.. Hadn't thought of that one. They thought the rest of the world was interested in V8 guzzlers made from tin foil and styrene. The sad truth is, Detroit with its rather stunning automotive heritage spent the glory years making cars at a loss and hoping to cover the margin with the finance spread. Nobody outside of The US wanted them so it was a self serving industry.

The Detroit I used to visit on business regularly in the '90s was unsustainable and even then, business leaders were holding their breath waiting for the bubble to burst. And burst it did. Sadly and spectacularly.

That's the problem with capitalism. It has to be real.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Stu
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:45 AM

Globalisation means we are faced with a sort of stateless uber-capitalism. Companies are now able to effectively ignore borders as they operate in an economic sphere that's almost separate from the countries it operates. By basing specific operations in certain locations they can avoid paying the taxes they owe, can exploit cheap labour markets that are largely unregulated. They have leverage in the government lobbies of the world that we as citizens can only dream of, and can act with impunity and ignoring any moral, social or ethical considerations.

Here in the UK this means we are now competing with far east labour markets; slowly but surely workers are drifting back into the sort of rights our ancestors suffered under in Victorian times. Zero hour contracts (essentially casual labour), wages that are so low they don't keep up with inflation thus condemning increasing numbers of working people to poverty. As for the workers in the far east, they're reduced to sewing labels into Primark clothes to send messages to the outside world.

This type of capitalism, unregulated and allowed to do what it wilts, means democracy is essentially dead. We can pay lip service via elections and the like, but we all know we're getting the same sort of person in whatever. No politician dares speak against these anti-nationals (as opposed to multi-nationals), they commit crimes and take our money and no-one gets prosecuted. They are unregulateable in terms of pricing etc, and are answerable to nobody.

What this actually means for the future I dread to think; basically we're powerless consumers herded like cattle to our eventual demise: and we pay for everything along the way.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 10:11 AM

Tame runaway corporate control of America through socio-capitalism

byProgToddNorCalFollow

"The industrial revolution brought us our current model for capitalism, and it has served us relatively well for over a century. Yes, the system has had its flaws, yet somehow we have always managed to recover.

But the parameters have changed for the 21st century. From Reagonomics through to the Bush era we've received a near lethal dose of the worst aspects of capitalism. The current level of corporate power would make even robber barons jealous. And finally America has woken up to this. Between the Occupy movement and the recent elections, the rumblings towards fixing a broken model have grown louder and gone more mainstream.

The problem with capitalism as it now stands is that large multinationals have a disproportionate influence on politics, media, the economy, the environment, and the middle class. These corporations have slanted the tax, anti-trust, and environmental laws further in their favor with lobbyists. Corporate profits are through the roof, yet CEO's salaries have gone even more stratospheric because taxpayers have had to shoulder the external costs of these behemoths. We pay the healthcare costs for those stricken by their pollution, or in the case of oil companies, the cost of our military's protection of American tankers in the Middle East.

Add to this picture the fact that many board members receive most of their compensation as stock options, which under current law are only taxed at 15% as capital gains rather than 39.6% as regular earnings. The end result is that we've created a class of super-rich where the top 1% in America hold 65% of all wealth.

""Throughout time, massive income disparity between the haves and have-nots has been at the core of how civilizations collapse. Our current corporatist tendencies push us towards that brink; it's a downward spiral that is hard to break.

This is how runaway capitalism can be our downfall, and it's a hard rut to crawl out of. Since a corporation's key goal is to maximize profits, CEOs and board members have a fiduciary responsibility to game the systemvia these aforementioned lobbyists. Wolves in multiple henhouses are part of the multinational business model.

But what if we find a way to use the forces of each CEO's own greed to help benefit society rather than leech from it? What if tax rates vary dramatically dependent on how well a corporation treats its employees, its physical neighbors, the environment, and society as a whole through the quality of its products or services?""

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 10:22 AM

Christopher Meyer produced an interesting perspectivebon runaway capitalism, and potential fixes.


Runaway Capitalism 

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 11:58 AM

Musket- I didn't ask you to give some cursory description of Detroit's situation. You posted a short slap at the US in general:

"Richest country on earth. Land of the free.

Keep banging the rocks together guys."

Right-- really helpful.

In the 50s & 60s & into the 70s, those big V-8s were a natural response to post-war exuberance, cheap oil, the creation of an inter-state highway system and a country 3000 miles wide. Detroit sold enough of them here to make huge profits.

(insert long analysis of globalization & rise of Asian imports here)

The country is still wide & deep, but it's not easy to change all our habits & paradigms overnight.... especially that" Land of the free " part. Companies ARE free, in general, to cope with changing demographics and international trade as they 'think' it will work. Some of the obvious tries do NOT work.
You were invited to clarify what would work.

In the meantime, the American auto industry is "banking together" smaller rocks, and doing pretty well, considering we have to drag certain parties kicking & screaming into a saner business model. (insert long review of political idiocy here)

So.. any substantive suggestions? Or just more empty condemnation?

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 02:40 PM

Well cutting off the water is because the supply of water is seen as a business. Try thinking Hugo Chavez.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 02:51 PM

Interesting that in the UK, the American companies Ford and General Motors hold 1st and 2nd place in sales.
Volkswagen is 3rd, and BMW and Audi tie for 4th.
Most of the British industry and market is held by non-British concerns.

The auto industry provides what the people want, large or small, and still do.
Companies based in Detroit (not only automotive) moved out because they wanted new modern factories and cheaper labor, which they found elsewhere. The old site (Detroit) was unable to come out with anything that would hold industry there.

For a time, the American auto industry, along with many other industries, was in severe depression, 2008-2012, but they are profitable again. Bailouts were needed (Germany was another who supported large companies in trouble).
World-wide, sales in all industries were down and unemployment swelled. That downswing is correcting itself.

The Detroit suburbs, as Joe says, are still prosperous as many other businesses are located near the City itself, but they use people who are skilled for work outside the assembly line or have other skills and education. Like Denver and some other cities, the well-to-do gravitate to suburbs, not city centers. Detroit is left with people unskilled in new work areas, no income is generated to support the city, and so the City rots.

Large city infrastructure is expensive to maintain. In the U. S., it is cheaper to move and start over in a new site. This is a grave fault in North America, and government action and the will of the people is needed to change that situation.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 03:51 PM

"Interesting that in the UK, the American companies Ford and General Motors hold 1st and 2nd place in sales.
Volkswagen is 3rd, and BMW and Audi tie for 4th.
Most of the British industry and market is held by non-British concerns.

"The auto industry provides what the people want, large or small, and still do." Q

What? Nobody wants the American automotive products? Assuming that Q's stats are accurate, it appears to me that the Brits' disparaging comments stem from disdain born of jealousy at little brother having become too big for his britches.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 04:08 PM

A combination of Ford and GMs early production history in the UK and growth through mergers and aquasistions likely contributed to their recent success, versus Toyota's growth strategy, more organic in nature, takes more time to bear fruit.


Part of the UK auto story 

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Musket
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 06:46 PM

Yeah but Ford doesn't sell American cars here. Ford are affiliated to The American Ford, who are shareholders and nobody has even heard of General Motors. They own Vauxhall in the same way banks own them. They build and sell far different cars built to far different standards. Our cars are more expensive but believe me, having spent a fair proportion of my working life driving rental cars in The States, there is a reason ours are more expensive.

Ford and Vauxhall are British and European cars. Toyota design and sell in The UK. BMW design and sell their British brands here.

My point is that exports drive economies, and nobody buys American cars. We take the piss out of them. When An American car is reviewed on Top Gear, they make a point of driving between Lincoln and Scunthorpe on the basis of the longest stretch of road without a bend, as suspension was never the strong point. Most cars made in The States fail European safety and emissions tests anyway. Most of my trips over start with arguments at the rental desk until they put the Chrysler keys away and get the German ones out.

Detroit is based on the American dream, not the American reality. A bit like your sport. World Series? I genuinely cannot recall whether that is baseball or American football. It certainly ain't World. That isn't a cheap comment, it is an indication of unsustainable attitudes that simply do not work.

I make no argument for what used to be British cars. Most manufacturers design and research here and that feeds the economy, just no longer feeds the jobs, sadly. Our car industry was awful in the '70s and '80 s with government owned British Leyland trying to learn from Detroit, thinking everybody would buy poor quality if you could sell an image. Jaguar is far better off and far better cars now they are owned by Indian money.

Come to think of it, we don't buy spray on cheese from you either.

For the record, I drive BMW and Mrs Musket drives Mercedes. When I was looking to buy last year, I can't even think of an American model in the sector I was looking that merited consideration. Jaguar, Audi, BMW, Mercedes... Nope. The only car America had to offer was the Chrysler 300, I looked in the showroom, sat in it and declined a test drive. The only thing you could say in its favour was last decade's Mercedes parts in the engine. The build quality was absolutely shocking. If I want to drive a shed, I may as well take a couple of axles up the garden and start converting one.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 07:34 PM

Kinda funny Musket, as to what cars are best suited to different local conditions. The local memories of Vauxhauls and British Ford brands from years ago are scary, and haunt those brands locally...they rusted so bad, and just so soon.

Where I live, North American brand cars have notaproven to be as resiliant as Japanese and (recent) Korean brands. Obe example I recall in recent years is a GM introduced Australian model, the Epica, , while it may be seen as a good car in Australia, it was proven to be "a piece of crap"in our local conditions.

Generally speaking, most German cars don't seem to do very well over the long-term in the local conditions where I live (excluding the VW diesel engine). While engineered well, repair bills can drive you to the poor house (beyond the warranty period, that is) if you arent rich. As to the other brands, French,Italian, British-branded, or the rest....the may be suited to the local market, but can't meet our extreme climate and road demands

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 07:37 PM

Of course I was referring to company ownership. There is little British company ownership involved in British car sales.

American-made cars are built for the longer distances and highways of the U. S. and Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 08:27 PM

"American-made cars are built for the longer distances and highways of the U. S. and Canada." Q

Yeah. We don't like driving with our heads scraping the roof or our knees under our chins.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 08:30 PM

There is something to be said for Mr. Bean cars:)

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Janie
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 12:36 AM

Sure, Ed. In the right places and circumstances.

Musket and Richard, et al, I would be interested in thoughtful and well informed, solution oriented responses from you, and anyone else with a good grasp of the complex issues to Bill D's query. It is obvious that these are tough situations without easy answers. Those of us who care and are foundering for viable solutions are eager for suggestions. Not just possible realistic movement toward solutions here in North America, but around the globe.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 01:22 AM

Janie. I already said it.

Keep banging the rocks together.

Stop selling the dream, people tend to wake up from dreams.

In the words of Dick Gaughan

I heard a lot of talk about the land of the free
So I went to see it for myself
But what I found was misery and poverty
In a land of incredible wealth

They have a thing they call a constitution
To defend your civil right
That's provided you have plenty of money
Are Protestant male and white.

By the people for the people
That what Lincoln vowed
But what the hell would Abraham Lincoln say
If he could see America now?

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 02:44 AM

Ye gods. I just wonder what an impartial person would say about the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 03:02 AM

Well, I've listened to Dick Gaughan on YouTube now- love his voice. Not too sure he likes the UK. :)

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Musket
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 03:26 AM

He made me laugh when he said "if the English want their independence, let them have it.."

He is an idealist, nationalist and slightly to the left of Lenin. However, he is possibly one of the most wonderful guitarists and to have a voice that is in itself a musical instrument, he is really gifted.

I did once have him crawling up the wall but wind up is all I can offer, not having his talent.

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 05:43 AM

Don't ask for breadth folks, Ian is a "one trick pony"

You have to look hard at Capitalism, see where it prospers and WHO prosper from it.
Under Capitalism, the system is ALL....any benefits are incidental, or designed to keep the system operating at perhaps reduced efficiency.
Its purpose is to enrich the few at the expense of the many, it depends on theft of resources and exploitation of labour to survive, it disguises these tactics by cloaking them clothes of "democracy" and "equality.
It is aware. When the necessary conditions no longer exist for its survival it moves on, leaving the debris we are beginning to see in the UK and the US.
The East will be its new home, the West will be the new Third World....and god help us!
At least you Yanks still have your wonderful optimism and naivety(in a good way).....I think and hope that you survive.

Whats to blame?......well we know don't we? We all think we can will the lottery :0).

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 07:03 AM

Ye gods! I agree with the Pharaoh!

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 09:46 AM

Runaway capitalism sure works for a few;)

Capitalism in action in Canada 

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Musket
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 10:29 AM

Interestingly enough Bridge, although I slightly recognise where he cut and pasted part of it from, I just can't quite understand what it has to do with me.

There again, I don't suppose he does either.

If you see capitalism as a concerted conspiracy theory, (which it can't be by mere definition) then you need a producer and a consumer in order to cream off the top and bottom. As the East needs to produce and the West isn't quite so willing to accept the sweat shop conditions the East offers, it is in the interest of the multinationals for the West to remain consumers.

Economics 101 really.

The worrying widening gap between rich and poor merely shifts the emphasis on which goods to sell, (Volvos in Kent, faux leather bus pass holders in The North, pacemaker monitors and deep fat fryers in Scotland.)

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 10:52 AM

Socialism bankrolls capitalism 

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 11:07 AM

Check out number three:)


Five top capitalist countries 

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 12:18 PM

"For the record, I drive BMW and Mrs Musket drives Mercedes. When I was looking to buy last year, I can't even think of an American model in the sector I was looking that merited consideration. Jaguar, Audi, BMW, Mercedes...

I'm not sure that anyone with both Mercedes & BMW in the family ought to say much about capitalism. (What..no Bentley?)

I have no problems with Mercedes & BMW. I'd love to drive either one.... or a Landrover.. For the record, *I* have never owned a new car. I have owned & driven older VWs, Volvos.... we are now at 120,000 miles on a 2002 Ford station wagon.

Y'know, Musket... there is a limited market for Mercedes & BMW & similar cars....something about the capitalist system. Why would we TRY to compete with entrenched German engineering from the MOST capitalist country?

------------------------

The point is: I am not arguing with your choice of vehicles... or even with your ability to afford them. I am just tired of the years of generalized America Bashing from 'over there' by guys who can only see he down side of our system & its cultural vagaries. I see issues with ALL cultures & countries, but I prefer to spend my time seeing the good side of them.

I ask again... explain, please, exactly how the UK is so superior.... and why you and Shaw & others feel the need to point fingers on a regular basis.
(we can even get American beer that rivals anyone now.)

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 01:02 PM

"I ask again... explain, please, exactly how the UK is so superior.... and why you and Shaw & others feel the need to point fingers on a regular basis." BD

Even they don't know. Kind of like the political right-wing conservatives in the US- they spout but cannot explain.


:) (Kind of)

Subject: RE: BS: The crisis of capitalism in the USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 01:11 PM

So RB , you have read Super Capitalism?