BS: Very hard things to do

Subject: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 03:43 PM

1) To refrain from engaging in a battle of wits with the obviously unarmed.
1a) Properly identifying the unarmed

2) To know how to do something.. and to watch someone doing it wrong, and to refrain from comment.
2a)Being sure they are doing it wrong, and not just differently than you.

3)Being able to separate your rationality from your personality. (perhaps one of the hardest) ("if the shoe fits...")

4)Being able to clearly understand and explain your opponent's point of view before criticizing and/or debating him.
4a)Making the effort to even bother with understanding him.


Of course there are other difficult things... but you see where my mind was today.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 03:56 PM

I have trouble with all these things, Bill D. It's an excellent and thought-provoking list. Remaining unprovoked in the face of fierce attack (justified or not) is hard. Everyone has a snapping point, but some explode more quickly than others. And as you say, assessing the battle-worthiness of an opponent isn't easy either. Is one being patronising by ignoring the barbs, or should one engage and be more honest and up-front? Patience, common sense and respect are perhaps good watchwords. But in spite of my age, I know I still have oodles to learn (and not much time left to learn it!) Mudcat lately has demonstrated that all too clearly.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 03:58 PM

No, I don't. Could you clarify it please? I don't know why you keep asking me to...

Oh. Yes. I see. Thanks. I'll toddle off and mindlessly watch football now. Sorry about that. Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:06 PM

Mudcat, Eliza? Did I mention Mudcat? *giggle*\

Football... ah yes... I'll watch the synopses later. We have a MUSIC party tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:13 PM

My hubby is engrossed in the match in the study. He has his nose about two inches from the screen and is shouting at the players in Malinke. Good job they can't hear him. Enjoy your music party Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:23 PM

""2. To know how to do something.. and to watch someone doing it wrong, and to refrain from comment.
2a)Being sure they are doing it wrong, and not just differently than you.""

I found 2 and 2 a very easy to do as I got older and at tasked that I gained more experience. I learned that good lessons often results from doing something wrong, people dont normally appreciate intervention (unless they ask for it) and frequently another way of doing it is often found by greenhorns. I always saw many roads to the same result. If they screw up, no one benefits from you saying, "I did not think that would work".

When working with greenhorns, I first explain something like..."there are many routes to the same result. If I am in the lead, I probably will do if the way that fits best for me, and you can help. If you are in tge lead, you can pick whst best works for me, and I will help.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:24 PM

Wow.....you have a "study"   :0o

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:31 PM

Juggling live eels.

Bit like being a mod on Mudcat :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 04:57 PM

Yes akenaton. It's really the third bedroom, but we don't need it for that so we turned it into a study. All our books are on the shelves, and my craft and knitting stuff, and loads of jigsaw puzzles. And a big armchair and second TV for himself to watch the footie. It's a nice den, very snug and cosy. Why are you amazed? Our house is really, really tiny; I ain't posh yer know!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:01 PM

Belly-dancing

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:03 PM

We know you may find it difficult, and may prefer to "lurk, and then spurt", Ake.
But, you may find it personally rewarding to think a bit before you post.

Most of us have patience with greenhorns and prefer posts with actual content. Just a suggestion, btw...not an insult, nor am I trying to knock you off your perch-roost.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:11 PM

Hi Eliza...nobody round here has a "study", just kitchen, living room, bathroom and assorted bedrooms, only the really posh folks have separate dining rooms.....only joking, I'm sure you're as down to earth as we are. A.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:12 PM

LOL GUEST, belly-dancing!! I have to confess that my belly knows how to do that with no tuition at all. In fact it wobbles most of the time (unless I'm asleep)
As an old teacher, I've seen the truth in what Ed says about 'greenhorns' dozens of times. My young pupils were often ahead of me in innovation and ideas. And a child learns more thoroughly if he's come to a conclusion by himself, rather than have it imposed upon him.
My poor husband knew absolutely nothing at first about daily life here in UK, and I had to practically sellotape my mouth over to stop being an interfering, bossy and managing female. But now, I'm delighted to let him lead, and I depend on him for major decisions and sensible advice. He's streets ahead of me now in every way.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:21 PM

Thanks Ake, now that makes more sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:27 PM

Sorry about the mixed upvstatement above. I still have a few issues with keyboarding with my very sensitive android tablet (now 6 months old).

Below is an amended text that makes more sense.

""When working with greenhorns, I first explain something like..."there are many routes to the same result. If I am in the lead, I probably will do it the way that fits best for me, and you can help. If you are in the lead, you can pick what best works for you, and I will help.""

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 05:29 PM

We eat on our laps instead of at a table. We're dead common. I wasn't at all worried by your 'study' query, akenaton, as people call a room like that by different names, 'den' 'study' 'snug'. Bungalows are handy like that; the rooms all on the same level can be anything you like.
There are loud cries coming from him now, through the door. Has there been another goal or what?
Ah, Brazil have scored again, and it's 2-0.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 06:03 PM

Ed, I'm not interested in you or your opinion of me.
It's room 101 for you I'm afraid.... :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 06:19 PM

I call my office my lair. "Den" is too pussy for a Wildebeest. >;-)

As for the football, what a great day of football! I called both and made coin. As for yelling at the TV, Eliza, I would give your man a run for his money in that department as I don't just watch sports... I get personal. Some find it odd but those who have played sports at a high level take it very... well... we shout at a TV... at a TV! That demonstrates our passions. Those that don't? Too bad for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 06:23 PM

Putting toothpaste back in the tube.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 06:34 PM

Thanks for taking me out of your domain, Ake..if it us real talk this time..(I removed you from mine some time ago, as I have no room in my world for what you represent..and only had the need to adress you at your calling). It's is pleasure not knowing you.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 09:11 PM

Ed T., I really liked the first version you posted!

The "corrected" version seemed rather humdrum.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 10:25 PM

"Putting toothpaste back in the tube"

I have done that... not an entire tubes worth, of course... but small amounts of 'over-squeeze'.
It's much easier than 'understanding ones opponent' and working out whether to engage him...

(Once, many years ago, I had a study/den, with a full desk and bookcases... walking distance from my university. I still don't know how we managed to acquire that place. It seems like it should have cost 2-3 times what we agreed to pay. Only lived there 3 1/2 years. I miss it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 14 - 11:13 PM

Ed... that is hard. It's like ignoring a skeeter that ya can't quite swat.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 01:56 AM

No need to swat. Akenaton doesn't represent anything or anyone. He uses terms such as "us" because in his world, he thinks people are like him.

There are a few as it happens. But they are the little people who are irrelevant and fading with time. Sad, bitter, twisted and rather pathetic.

It is hard to ignore them though. Silence is seen as acceptance in their low intellect way of thinking. You see, they generally like to blame others for their own failures and frustrations.

Writing this in my study by the way. It says study on the original plans from 1863 and I use it for such a purpose. Akenaton's idea of "normal" people means something different I suppose. I know his sort. They feel you have to be jealous of others and consider yourself hard done by on order to have a view. It must hurt to see hard graft and labour result in success.

Oh, and one of the nicest homes in his locale has a study too, and a successful couple living in it. In true stereotypical terms, they have excellent soft furnishings and make a bloody good soufflé. They also tell everybody that I referred to them as bowling from the pavilion end, a badge they wear with pride apparently. Glad to be of service.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:45 AM

'Lair' is a good word, gnu. I've noticed most men shout at the TV when watching sport. My old dad used to do it when watching rugby. It makes me smile, I never mind at all. My hubby works hard and it's good for him to let off steam, sitting there with his ice-cream and a huge spoon. (He loves ice-cream as much as I love crumpets. Healthy pair aren't we?) He's off to Ivory Coast soon for 5 weeks, to visit his family. Staying here worrying about him will be a very hard thing to do. Very hard. But I'm off to Hairy-leg Land (Scotland) to stay with my sister for a few days. Och aye the noo!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:50 AM

I'm now the proud owner of an office/study! Until recently it was a spare bedroom stuffed full of books and junk. I got rid of the books and junk (a very, very hard thing to do!) and got the room decorated and carpeted. Now it contains my CD collection and just a few books - mainly my botanical field guides. There's also a Microsoft Surface Pro connected to a 23 inch monitor and a wireless keyboard and mouse (to my great surprise, all of this actually works!). I'm particularly proud of a swivelly office chair that I got from a charity shop for a tenner. In addition, all of my household files are in a neat little filing cabinet. I must say, I'm feeling very smug at the moment and keep going in there ... mainly to swivel on the swivelly chair ... I'm sure I'll eventually do lots of studying though!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 04:14 AM

Oh Shimrod, I'd love a swivelly chair! What a good idea! We have a filing cabinet in the study. Isn't it ghastly how merely running a house and car need such an inordinate quantity of paperwork? It's like running a huge business. I often joke that I need a secretary. However did we manage years ago? I can't remember having files and folders in the house like this. My parents certainly didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 05:55 AM

I agree with you, Eliza, the amount of paperwork is ridiculous! The worst is the papers connected with financial things like ISAs. They send you bushels and bushels of 'bumph' - none of which makes any sense whatsoever. And each 'investment' (which, at the end of the day, yields virtually nothing) has a fancy title, and a million digit code number, and matching up the bits of paper is a nightmare!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:04 AM

I'm glad I'm not the only one, Shimrod. We bought an electric shredder. (In our old house we had a log fire, and could burn stuff even in summer by just lighting it in the grate) That shredder seems to shred morning noon and night. As you say, mostly bumph. And none of it strictly necessary. I do as much as I can online, but still the avalanche of paperwork arrives. I've got into the habit of going through the large filing cabinet every two months and shredding as much as possible. If not, you can hardly close the drawers. Our recycle bin is awash with shredded blasted paper. Totally mad!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:24 AM

And then, of course, there's the added worry. Do sinister crooks match the shreds together so that they can steal your identity and do wicked deeds in your name?!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:44 AM

Don't they recycle paper where you are? All our stuff just goes in the recycling bin along with the old newspapers, & gets carried away every other Monday. If no such service where you are, there must be a recycling centre somewhere near, surely?

Anything blank on one side I recycle myself by printing out online crosswords etc on the reverse; then it gets recycled.

If any sinister crooks then wish to trawl thru it looking for info to blackmail me ["Pay up, or I'll tell the world you couldn't get the Speccie crossword 17dn last week"], then they can just carry on at their leisure. & I hope it keeps fine for them!.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:56 AM

Regarding swivelly chairs the hardest thing for me to do is to not have a sneaky childish spin on it, which is very difficult in the serious workplace - well until the rest go to lunch!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 07:04 AM

I am not above wearing a head torch and spinning on my swivel chair declaring to the dog that I am a lighthouse.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 07:13 AM

Yes, MtheGM, they do re-cycle paper where I am. But I shred anything with my name, address and other personal details on it. Presumably, and hopefully, any sinister crooks would prefer the easy option of unshredded paper for their identity stealing purposes (probably not blackmail).

Must get a dog and a head-torch, Musket!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 07:50 AM

Our council recycles paper but the instructions specify that it must NOT be shredded.

I just tear out the bits with my name and address on, and put them in the compost bin for the slugs and snails to eat.

The really annoying letters are from companies trying to persuade me to enter prize draws, who feel it necessary to address me by name up to a dozen times per page, as if they think I will be so excited at the prospect of winning their prize that I will keep forgetting who I am.

I believe this stems from an American PR guru who declared that the sweetest sound anyone ever hears is the sound of their own name, and therefore that the more often you address someone by name, the more they will like you. This is not always true - one doesn't usually get to choose one's name. In my case I am stuck with the name of an ex-husband, which I retained because it was more convenient to have the same name as my children, but which I really, REALLY dislike. The more these people use my name, the less likely I am to do what they want.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 09:14 AM

I agree topsie. My Christian name is alright, but no-one has called me by that for over sixty years. I'm known by my nickname, which is totally different. So when dentists (aaaaaghh!), opticians, doctors, phone-banking people etc use my 'first name' ( a bit of a cheek anyway, since we aren't bosom pals) I don't recognise it as 'me' at all. I had 'sedation' for a colonoscopy recently, and came round with a nice nurse shaking me and saying this strange woman's name over and over. Very bizarre.
To try and stay on thread, a very, very hard thing to do is to steel oneself to actually submit at the dentist's and sit in his sinister chair. My legs are heading for the door while my mind is trying to persuade me to sit down. Same for the colonoscopy. I had to lie voluntarily on a bed, surrounded by six (yes, six!) strong-looking nurses waiting to grab my limbs, while the sedation was administered. It was so hard to conquer my terror and stay put without punching an unfortunate nurse on the nose and making my escape! Those are hard things to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 10:19 AM

You make an interesting point Eliza. When my step father was being revived by two nurses who thought they were losing him ( he did die a few hours later) I came onto the ward to hear them calling a name I actually didn't know he had, and my mother quietly, almost to herself, saying what his name was as one he would recognise. (We knew him as Arch, his real name was Arthur but I didn't know that.)

I am rather pleased to see that hospital records as well as care and nursing homes are usually having a "known as" box in the general details of their records. This is not universal but Care Quality Commission inspectors do question how they know what people like to be known as when assessing dignity and respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 11:19 AM

even harder thing to do for many with inquisitive, roaming minds ☺

5)Staying anywhere near the original point of a new thread once someone has glommed onto some unrelated reference.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 12:17 PM

Oh dear Bill, I certainly have glommed. I'm sorry, I'm a garrulous old thing that rambles on and on. Must stay 'on task' in future! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 12:34 PM

I admit I am often guilty of 'glomming' - but isn't that how conversations work? Expanding ideas and offering new angles make it so much more interesting and fun than sticking rigidly to one limited topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 01:24 PM

I saw it as an example of what the thread is about, in action. Happy to wander really.

I picked all the gooseberries and blackcurrant today. My jam jars are busy sterilising in the oven and tomorrow I start jamming. The only time of the year when I jam without aid of guitar, fiddle or banjo.

Mind you, having retired (again) as of earlier this week, I was wondering why I had to do this on a weekend as I can do it in the week...   Off to the Grand Prix at first light tomorrow, so I shall have to debug the dog on Monday.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 01:30 PM

Making jam, the Grand Prix and debugging the dog! A very interesting start to your retirement Musket! I wish you a very happy one. Kindest regards, Eliza.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:29 PM

I errmm.. have never glommed, myself... pure & focused, that's me...

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:39 PM

Thanks Eliza but I doubt it will last long. I tried retiring before and ended up starting a new career basically... Twelve years later I'm trying again. To be fair my first one was way too young. I sold up in a takeover and decided I didn't need to work any more. What I hadn't banked on was that I wanted to work.

Try again....

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:47 PM

A couple to help if get back to the op topic:

Eat one nut, only.
Start the day without a coffee.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 02:50 PM

I think I can relate to that, Musket. (Here I go again, glomming) When I retired, I took up prison visiting, Meals on Wheels, Hospital Volunteering with WRVS, and enjoyed it all. I like to be busy. Now we still do our cleaning job at the holiday barn. I grumble like anything, but secretly enjoy it. It's my weekly work-out! My husband still works as a school cleaner. I always get up at 6am and toddle about doing stuff around the house and garden. I think hell would be doing absolutely nothing. I pray my health doesn't let me down in the future. But there's a super chap in our village aged 93. He whizzes about and is an example and encouragement to us all.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:06 PM

I have been retired now for 5 months, still arise at 6 am, and there are not enough hours in the day to do all the tasks that I would like to do. I have taken little relaxation time out yet....too much to get done. Maybe it will change when I get deeper into retirement..and when my wife retires in a few years.....but, maybe not?

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:10 PM

It is often usually the case that when one retires, one soon wonders how he ever had time to go to work all those years.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:11 PM

I was typing while Ed was posting..so
my #6... figuring out how to cram in everything I want to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:17 PM

I reckon one doesn't retire from life, only from the job. The good thing about retirement is the removal of constraint on one's time. I was governed by the bell as a teacher, and after I left teaching I could allot my time as I wished. I immediately travelled to W Africa outside of school holiday periods, and spent longer there than I was able to before. Their dry season is during our winter, so I could escape the cold weather for quite long stretches at a time. I went everywhere to Morris events, and gardening weekends. It's bliss to be retired if you fill your time. But just sitting there moping is the way to an early grave IMO. A very hard thing to do was leaving my colleagues still toiling at the chalk face. We were such a lovely team, and it was hard to go. You say you'll keep in touch, but of course, life moves on. Many of them are now marking books in the school in the sky, bless them!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 03:34 PM

Actually, Eliza, I often just sit here. Like the man in the old Punch cartoon: "Sometimes I sits & thinks, and sometimes I just sits". I love doing nothing. The ability to do nothing for hours has always been a talent of mine. Not, as you know, that I never do anything. Sometimes I write things, or post on Mudcat. And do lots'n'lots of crosswords. Or read. But I honestly can sit by the hour doing nothing. I don't 'mope', mind. I just sit and think. Or just sit...

Early grave? I'm 82...

xX❤♥~Michael~♥❤Xx

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 04:17 PM

Sort-of thread drift back to the title, if not the opening post. I suspect many people have things they find very hard to do that almost everyone else in the world finds quite straightforward. In my case, I have a stammer. One consequence of this is that if don't start a conversation with someone straight away it becomes insurmountably difficult to talk to them. But if they talk to me, no problem. As good example of this goes back to university days. There was someone on a similar course to me that I spoke pretty much every day in the first year. Come the second, for some reason we didn't speak the first time I saw her at the start of the second year: maybe she was chatting with her friends and I didn't want to interrupt. Anyway, the result was was still saw each other almost every day but I was unable to speak to her till Christmas. I assume she thought she'd offended me so she didn't speak to me either. Come Christmas, she needed help with some course work and since no-one else was around she asked me - at which point I could talk to her again. This is not to be confused with shyness or being timid - I've presented lectures to rooms of 400+ without nerves. No, it is more of a terror that like I imagine people who are afraid of spiders feel.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,DMcG
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 04:19 PM

That's me, above. Bloomin' cookies.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 04:38 PM

Interesting Michael. I have a routine where, half an hour or so before I go to bed, and half an hour before I get up, I sit quietly and think and pray. I let my thoughts wander and I reflect on all sorts of things. It's a magical time for me. While I'm doing this, my husband is performing his Muslim prayers in the spare room. I was astonished to read the other day that, in an experiment, many people were unable to sit alone in a room for fifteen minutes before they became stressed and had to press the panic button to let them out! I suppose for many younger folk today, 'being still and sitting with oneself' is quite frightening. A very hard thing to do, in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 06:01 PM

Bill, I love you for even considering these things : )

All of those things are SO hard to do, whether near people we love, or in a community.

I might amend that a good definition of 'hard to do' (but usually worth the effort) is anything that involves taking the High Road.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 07:40 PM

Staying on topic, apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 08:28 PM

For many, not gossiping, remaining positive and keeping a secret.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 08:33 PM

Remembering the names of people, when it unexpectedly falls on you to introduce them to others.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 14 - 11:59 PM

awww...Dani- that made my day! ♥♥♥

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bert
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 12:44 AM

Well, apart from wood turning, one of the hardest things to do here is to make any sort of comment about The EFDSS without getting half a dozen people jumping down your throat. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 01:30 AM

"Remembering the names of people, when it unexpectedly falls on you to introduce them to others."

Remembering people's names full stop!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: bbc
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 01:43 AM

Classic thread drift, but fun to read. Can't think well enough to contribute, intelligently, right now. Just bored, not sleeping in the middle of the night.

Barbara

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 03:25 AM

I could give Michael a run for his money in the sitting doing nothing stakes but I bow to the master when it comes to thinking nothing.

The last time I "retired" I was living alone and this time I have a Mrs Musket leaving me lists of jobs, plus a garden I thought too big when we bought it and still do... I think I have made a similar mistake if I am serious. Last time I became a chair of an NHS trust which should have kept me busy two days a week. Hah! And when the term came to an end I carried on full time in various roles interfering in health and social care. This time, I haven't given up a small teaching post at the medical school of a university on the basis it is only a couple of days a month.

Déjà vu beckons....

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 01:15 PM

TALKING NOTHING BLUES      


Well I looked from hall to the top of the stair,

I went to the cupboard but it was bare,

Nothing, nothing, nothing was there.

I turned around and scratched my face:

All this nothing all over the place!

In the carpets, on the chairs,

Kinda cramps my style.


A man on the footpath standing round
Spreading nothing all over the ground
I heard some passing people say
All this nothing gets in the way

Oughta be a law.



Well I thought I'd better lay in a supply,
So I went to the door some nothing to buy.
In the window a big display:
"We've got plenty of nothing today"

All vacumn packed.



Well the clerk at the store said "What'll it be?"
"Nothin', Nothin', Nothin' for me".
"How do you want it? Short or tall?
Fat or skinny? Large or small?"

I said "I'll take one with bows on -
Wrap it carefully, now, it's for a gift!"


Well this song was written with nothing in mind,
Nothing at all of any kind,
Nothing in it of any degree,
Nothing at all as you can see.

This song was aided by a poverty of intellect.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 01:24 PM

2) To know how to do something.. and to watch someone doing it wrong, and to refrain from comment.
2a)Being sure they are doing it wrong, and not just differently than you.

Watching someone do something wrong once isn't very hard if one looks at it as an opportunity for the other person to learn from their mistake.

What's hard is watching them do the same thing wrong repeatedly.

What's extra hard is watching them do it wrong while knowing that you are going to be the one who has to fix it.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 02:35 PM

Mastering the "teachable moment" so it doesn't come across as negative criticism.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 03:22 PM

That, SRS, is hard to do anytime... but unfortunately, some take any 'critique' as negative. About the only 'solution' I have found is to let them see you doing it correctly somehow... then let them think THEY thought of the right way.
(I learned this with a boss, many, many years ago. He would try to 'help' by messing with something that was part of my assigned job... and usually force me to take twice as long to fix it. So I would time it so he was wandering by, and be casually doing it right. Soon he was 'explaining' to others how it was done.)

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 03:32 PM

One thing I find very hard to do is give sincere praise and heartfelt appreciation without it coming across as patronising. That is truly an art. I like to thank people and to admire what has been done, but often I wonder if it's being seen as rather over-gracious. One answer is not to say anything in appreciation, but that seems socially mean and cold.
I know I personally like to be appreciated (who doesn't) but just how does one express it tactfully and respectfully?

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Musket
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 06:41 PM

I have been lucky in being in a position where I could praise people and give them recognition, but like Eliza, I have to try and ensure it doesn't come over as patronising.

I find it rather hard to swap styles. In business, I used to spend about a third of my time in The USA. When I was at the UK factory, it was almost expected that you would have a laugh, wind people up and get all shouty without any malice or ill intent. Mmm. In Illinois, such an approach had people wondering what they were doing wrong. Generally speaking, they took you more at face value. (A sales office in Boston however was far more like The UK in how the staff treated each other and I felt at home when I was there. Ditto Italy, whilst Germany - back to saying what you mean unequivocally.

I actually see that to a degree on Mudcat. It is rather fascinating, the face value comments on subjects where the invitation to make light of it is irresistible. After all, it is sometimes impossible to have an earnest chat when the other person makes no sense whatsoever.

Anyway, to bed. I have err.. oh. Nothing in the diary tomorrow.

Hang on. Yes. Debug the dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 07:08 PM

"""What's extra hard is watching them do it wrong while knowing that you are going to be the one who has to fix it."""....and, they will likely take, or be given, the credit for a job well done.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 08:03 PM

In the US "winding people up" is best reserved for those who know each other and share the same history & jokes. There's just too many different regions & cultural histories with different ideas of what passes for 'friendly' humor.

In the UK, it may be taken for granted by almost everyone, but it doesn't always translate well here.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 08:21 PM

A good perspective, Bill D. While there are benefits to workplace humour, it is wise to tread carefully- there are clear dangers, that can only be safely overcome through a good knowledge of the people and culture involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 01:50 AM

Huh, and then some complain when I advise you to keep banging the rocks together...

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 02:20 AM

Chaffing and teasing, irony and 'having a laugh' is indeed the norm here in UK. I suppose it's what is known elsewhere as 'the British sense of humour'. Socially speaking, I reckon it's a way of actually blurring or softening direct criticism or disapproval. My friend Ronda had a German male friend, and when he visited from Munich he was horribly 'direct' in his utterances. He'd tell her, if she asked him for an opinion, that her dress wasn't attractive, that her figure was a bit fat, that the new sofa was a horrible colour etc. If she winced, he'd be amazed and say, "But...you asked me!" The humour approach backfires with Africans. If you 'joke' and say, for example, "Good grief! This spicy food will blow my head off!" they'll look horrified and reply quite seriously, "No, it is not dangerous. Please do not be afraid. Your head will not blow up." I often tell my husband that in the dark all you see of him is a set of white teeth coming towards you. He'll say, "But you know that the rest of me is there too!" It is very hard to make him understand one is joking or teasing.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Musket
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 03:40 AM

Something else that is hard to do..

Put a sticking plaster on your arse with the aid of a mirror.

I find white spirit cleans the sticky residue off the mirror...

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 03:43 AM

Musket!! Let me guess! You were debugging the dog and it bit your bum!!
LOL!!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 11:35 AM

I'm just curious, Eliza... what does your husband... and by extension, many other Africans... find to be amusing? Do they tell 'jokes'? Are certain situations or malapropisms funny?

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 12:15 PM

Well, Bill, my husband loves an African series which he accesses on his laptop called 'Moussa le Malhonnete'. It appears to be about a man with an enormous, grotesque hernia (actually a football) under his baggy African trousers, who beats his wife and causes trouble in the village by suspecting other men of adultery with his wife. My husband laughs like a drain at all this. The actor who plays Moussa is actually a real hunchback into the bargain. It's knockabout slapstick stuff. The more screaming, abusive women come out of their huts to shout at Moussa, the more my husband laughs. I don't get it really, but it's funny to see him roaring his head off. He doesn't 'get' puns, verbal jokes or wordplay. He now finds some teasing funny as he's learned my ways after all these years, but it's heavy-going I can tell you! He has a bit of a pot belly now, and I ask him when the twins will be born. He giggles at that, but at first, he replied, "Men can't have babies, you know. How can this be twins?" Talk about comedians 'dying the death!'

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 04:07 PM

1, Remembering names.
2, Remembering faces.

Neither of those do I find particularly difficult.



3, Correctly matching names to faces.
. . . Ah, now you come to the tricky bit!

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 07:10 PM

The hardest thing for me to do is tell jokes at all. It is something that I am just not blessed with unfortunately when I try to deliver the punchline it just falls flat. It reminds me of a Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck cartoon when Daffy was trying to upstage Bugs and to entertain an audience and all he got was complete silence apart from the odd cricket chirping. That would be me! And yet in general conversation I can come out with something quite innocently that has people in fits of giggles.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 07:17 PM

Some folks find public speaking very hard to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 08:24 PM

Hurricanes with female names more deadly than male-named storms:

hard to figure out? 

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 10:47 PM

Oh my, Eliza.. I think that his sense of humor, as a product of his culture, would strain MY ability to conduct a conversation with him. I now see why people who travel a lot, or become diplomats, need guide books and/or extensive training in order to avoid serious awkwardness.

What people find funny is a major way we have of selecting those we keep company with.

----------------------------

Patsy- one of my interests/hobbies is 'honing' jokes and puns...etc. I HATE "Readers Digest Condensed Jokes" where one hurries to get to a just barely recognizable punch line. One of the problems with the internet/WWW is that there are WAY too many people who post distorted, silly, weak forms of good jokes... which are then copied & pasted by hundreds of others until the original, elegant form is buried under a deluge of bad examples.

Here on Mudcat, Uncle Dave O. posts some of the best examples of good jokes..

When telling a joke 'live', one first needs to not be afraid to TELL it ... to build it up properly using the best phrases & 'set-up'... if one telegraphs the punchline or censors it, it can fall flat.

It is not a skill that one picks up over night...but it is well worth a bit of practice on a few select ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Guest - Lin
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 10:22 PM

1. Getting up early in the morning -which for me is not only a hard thing to do - but EXTREMELY hard thing to do. Thank goodness I don't work at a regular job anymore and only work one or two days a week so usually sleep until 11:00 AM or 11:30AM.   

2. Driving on a freeway - scared to do this anymore.

3. Going to a dentist for anything!

4. Having to listen to people talking on mobile phones wherever I go. Restaurants, buses, trains, grocery stores, malls. It is hard for me to listen to so many people (all ages) talking so loud on the mobile phones. For goodness sakes - even in the library.
Years ago, the librarians used to enforce it - when cell phones started to become popular but now they rarely ask the person not to talk on the phone, even inside the library unless the person is talking extremely loudly. Otherwise they ignore it and say they are not "the library police." :-(((

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 02:09 PM

awww.. dentists & freeway driving are a lot easier for ME than tolerating enduring impolite idiots on cell phones. Even harder is restraint when friends do it near me.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 02:29 PM

-talk during a dental procedure

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 01:49 AM

Choking your chicken while tightrope walking.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 07:21 PM

Putting up with the unaware.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 07:24 PM

GfS.. I haven't heard that smarmy euphemism for 40 years. I could happily have gone 40 more.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Midchuck
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 02:21 PM

I go along with Ed T about starting the day without coffee, but I think the ultimate was one from the lamented H. Allen Smith, many years back:

"Trying to shove butter up an eel's ass with a red-hot awl."

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 02:43 PM

Have empathy for those who hurt a child.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 10:01 AM

One of the hardest things to do these days, in the UK, is to buy a newspaper (!) Go into any newsagents and the idiot in front of you in the queue is bound to be fiddling about with f**ing lottery tickets! And each transaction seems to take hours!! Is that because lottery players are extra-specially thick or the lottery is so complicated it takes an inordinate amount of time to either buy or to check a ticket?

Some people also seem to find it hard to buy a bus ticket. These days, every time I go into town, my heart sinks when I see a big queue at the next bus stop - because I know that each would-be passenger is going to need to arrange to pay his/her fare via banker's draft, negotiate an international peace treaty, translate the collected works of Aristotle from the original ancient Greek into Finnish and write a thesis on quantum indeterminacy. Meanwhile, I'm on the top deck screaming silently to myself: "Just get on the f***ing bus!!!!"

Is it just me?

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Musket
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 11:08 AM

I had to send a letter by special delivery yesterday, as solicitors still live in the last century.

First time I have been in a post office in years. Fuck me...   I was once in Russia and a bloke in the hotel joked that we taught the Russians how to queue.

Now 30 years later, I see the joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 12:28 PM

These stores need to take a lesson from the COSTCO warehouse stores in the US. They accept only cash, American Express or direct debit cards. The lines move VERY fast (unless someone who speaks poor English doesn't understand the rules... but that seems pretty rare, as it is all explained when you join.)

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 12:56 PM

getting the leg over anything other than a bicycle

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 12:59 PM

Know who all those people mentioned in the newspapers at the supermarket checkout are. Kim, Tom...I don't know who they are and I suspect that no one else will a couple of years hence.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 05:53 PM

Find a public payphone, or a telephone book.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:07 PM

... get a HUMAN at a public works phone #. They all have voice mail, and almost never return calls.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 04:30 AM

It used to be said "A Scout smiles & whistles under all difficulties".
Simultaneously smiling & whistling is very hard to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 04:31 AM

It is very difficult to resist posting . . .


100

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 07:49 AM

Performing a set after eight pints. Used to be easy (obligatory..) Not fair on the audience nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 11:16 AM

Perform autocopulation, as I have been told to do numerous times.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 04:09 PM

when cooking, and cutting up a pepper it is impossible to keep all the wee white seeds inside on your chopping board. very bouncy things indeed. for a vegetable.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 05:21 PM

"Perform autocopulation"

You mean all that money I spent on Yoga & Kama Sutra lessons was wasted?

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 07:52 PM

grow penis 


Since Rap brought it up, what seems hard to do, IMO, is to ""spontaneously cast off of a penis after each copulation and 'regrow it to copulate again within 24 hours.""

Maybe some of you have done it on a regular basis, (no, I am not singling you out Musket), but surely not me.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 12:46 PM

Musket, Steve and now you, Ed, are all about penises recently...while Don is yappin' about goin' to the shitter...Now we're getting to the root of their fascinations and depth of their goals!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 01:21 PM

Simply following your lead, Goofball.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 04:02 PM

Do you hold something against the objects under side discussion, gfs. :)

Losing one and growing one back is surely a notable nature happening worth sharing information on-nothing deep, anal, gritty, rooty, or girthy about that?

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 04:19 PM

I seem to have lost control of my thread. Sometimes expected creep goes weirdly awry- and it always seems to involve the same bunch.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 04:48 PM

Eliza's comments reveal two things: that English humour developed among a circle of boozers in the late 16th Century (Robert Armin, Foole upon Folie, being the birthplace) and so never made it to the Continent until afer WWII (Astérix in French setting a decent norm, far better than the English translations), and that it never made it into female circles either - it requires timing in the punchline. Learn your jokes like you would a song, with beat and emphasis to misdirect until you strike mercilessly in the punchline. Don't empathise with the audience too much or you'll signal the punchline irrecoverably. It's all about the "how the hell did I miss that one?".
Like telling the jack-the-lad who routinely pursues anything in skirts that he should polish the body-armour he sometimes wears (for reasons) - that way he can claim to be her knight in shining armour, and then follow up by offering to show her his helmet...

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 04:50 PM

Touch your elbow with the hand on the end of the same arm...

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 05:11 PM

Hey Goofus !

As you seem to be leading up to it, why don't you remind us of how you can "cure " being gay?

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 05:59 PM

It is impossible to get a quart of water into an empty pint pot. So why, do you think, do businessmen, economists and politicians all try to run the world as if it was possible?

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 02:05 AM

Hey Musket...find where I ever said that!..I never did...that was Don's spin, distorting a post of mine.
Funny, I guess 'so-called liberals' believe each others spin, more than facts.....why does this not surprise me...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 03:47 AM

Unless he posts in your name, you said it.

Mind you, I don't blame you for back-pedalling. Snag is, your chain came off years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 06:45 PM

Don't worry GFS, Musket is a creative paraphraser. He's not saying what you said, just what he assumed you said. And he is just doing that to wind you up. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 07:49 PM

I'm not positive, without doing more backtracking than I'm going to bother with, if Gfs specifically said that he, personally, could "cure" gays, but he at least came very close to it. He very definitely cited, and linked to, those whom he lauded for "curing" gays.

Hard to do? Carry on a constructive exchange with someone (Mitt Romney for example) who majors in "I never said that" as if plain recordings of his prior statements weren't readily available.

Subject: RE: BS: Very hard things to do
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 08:13 PM

"Very hard things to do" for a politician..


Say anything in public... or even in semi-private... that is not being recorded by someone- usually someone they'd rather didn't. Thank goodness most of them never learn!