Folk Clubs Dying Out

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 10:39 AM

I was thinking along the same lines Vic, where Irish music is concerned it's not at all uncommon for young and old musicians to mix and play music together. Speaking for myself, some years ago I used to play a lot (and recorded a Cd with) a very dear friend who was maybe 35 older, the last time I was playing out (at the end of the Willie Clancy week) I spent several hours playing with a lovely fiddleplayer who is about forty years younger than I am. Not a bother.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 10:40 AM

Vic - I have been to plenty young performers in clubs where every audience member was old enough to be their parents if not grandparents.

The age of booked guests isn't the issue.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Vic Smith
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 11:32 AM

Vic - I have been to plenty young performers in clubs where every audience member was old enough to be their parents if not grandparents

Spot on, Peter, but in the 1960s this did not seem to be such an issue (three generations of families together in a folk club as I mentioned.)

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 12:15 PM

Will we have 'professional'singers for much longer if clubs are turning into sing-arounds or closing? One wonders who will influence and enthuse budding musicians then?
How are folk 'degree' courses recommending that their students use their learning to make a career in music?
I think,much as people disliked it, I think banning smoking had an effect - changed the nature of pubs. Music licences of one sort or another didn't help - a lot of pubs seem to be changing into eateries in order to survive - does folk music fit into this scenario? One of my earliest folk clubs ran in a Bernie Inn!
There seems to be questions - unfortunately not to many viable answers

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: oggie
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 06:38 PM

The students on Folk Degree courses are making their careers wherever they can, either in music or without (I belong to that generation where the label on your degree didn't mean that that was what you did afterwards, there isn't much call for professional Economic Historians).

If you look at the Folk courses (or Dog Training or whatever) you'll see they're very similar to a lot of other degrees, only the subject that carries the degree is different. The best (or most hungry) will find a way to make a career in music, most will enjot the degree and then get a "normal" job and music will be a hobby. Whether or not Folk Clubs are still booking guests won't matter to either group, they'll find other outlets as many are already doing.

Steve

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 02:36 AM

Guest Chris: Will we have 'professional'singers for much longer if clubs are turning into sing-arounds or closing? One wonders who will influence and enthuse budding musicians then?

I think they'll find outlets. I know of 3 individuals who started off at one open mic I attend who now regularly get paying gigs. Two of them are very "folky".

The young organiser at that one has, in the last year or so, started to get a lot of airplay on 6Music, Radio 2 and some local radio stations, as well as having 3 of his songs played regularly as "background" in a TV soap opera.

I've promoted folk acts myself, including a very successful gig for Katriona Gilmore and Jamie Roberts at The Plaza in Sevenoaks where we managed (by dint of a lot of leafletting and other publicity and holding ticket prices down to £6) to pack in around 120 people. I don't do it to make money (I just did slightly more than break even on that one....I did think I'd made £55 profit until the venue sent me a PRS bill for £36, despite all Katriona and Jamie's songs being either traditional or their own compositions!!!). I just like trying to get better exposure for people I've seen, enjoyed, and think ought to be brought to the attention of more people.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 03:03 AM

One or two on this thread have muttered about the smoking ban having been a negative influence. I am one of the many for whom it's an enormous blessing. I gave up my local club in the 80s apart from very rare visits, partly because I was finding smoke more and more distressing. (It later became non-smoking, but smoke could still come in from just outside.) In the 90s I started going to a different club which was already non-smoking.

A large proportion of those who come to Sharp's sing and/or play, few are really dire (but even those people are invited to perform and get applauded), some are very good indeed and there are all ages, albeit with a majority the wrong side of 50.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 05:22 PM

I have been to quite a few folk clubs in the last few years. Some times they are run by the Old timers but the audience usually has a few young people too. The places that seem to do best are the ones who include a bit of Blues, Jazz and C&W as well as traditional Folk. I would travel to any venue that had Harvey Andrews or Winter Wilson or young David Gibb. Others have their favorites and most of these venues get by between big name by playing songs they like and know well and generally end up being Folk playing and singing music they like. Even if its not called a folk club the essential ingredient will still be there

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Mandoman77
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:46 PM

True people always have and always will get together and create music. However, thats not the issue, the original purpose of Folk Clubs was surely to provide, encourage, sustain, whatever you like to call it Folk and Traditional Music, if you don't call them Folk Clubs, then eventually they will become something else and not do that. As thing stand I cannot see how they can survive.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:14 PM

thats your problem, mando man go and see your analyst.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:18 PM

I've read this entire thread, and can only come to a single conclusion. Things pass.

Let it go. Does anyone in the pop world still try to hang on to The 2i's Coffee Bar? Of course not. Things change.

Folk music is alive and vibrant amongt young people. Rejoice in that, and don't expect it to be as it was before. That will only bring disappointment.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Mandoman77
Date: 01 Aug 14 - 12:00 PM

ED you make a good point, whereas Good Soldier Schweik, can only make stupid comments

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Betsy
Date: 01 Aug 14 - 06:12 PM

When I was a kid my mam used to take my Nanna to something called a Darby and Joan Club ( early 1950's) "What for Mam ?". My mam explained that she met other peope her age and talked about local things - only they knew about. The also had cups of tea , biscuits and a sing song.
(Those were extremely austere times don't forget).
I see a bit of a parallel here in that the Folk clubs seem to comprise people who have retired or are reaching that stage.
Young ones seem reluctant to engage unless they are given the opportunity to perform and preferably paid.
Also in the mix are many people who have taken up the guitar and want to perform with their beloved Lowdens , Taylors or Martins, which many of them only play to a very basic standard.
They want to on THAT STAGE and who can blame or deny them?
Organisers are delighted to have their numbers in attendance and it also helps develop a social side and friendship within the Club. However , as with the Darby and Joan club situation, the Folk club will slowly die out in its' present format as a natural part of social decay.
It may well re-invent itself, but I fear that, todays young people lack( no fault of theirs-just times are different) the things which drove-on the "revival generation" , and e.g. those songs ( which many of us find a pain in the arse now ) i.e. the Wild rover etc etc were an absolute wonder when first we were exposed to them.
There was originally much merit in chorus singing, and, effort by performers to " get the chorus across", all done without the aid of a P.A. system which has to my mind created a barrier between performer(s) and audience in smallish (max 100 folk) rooms.
I still rejoice at listening to Christy Moore , Barbara Dickson , Maddy Prior with Tim Hart , Aly Bain , Matthews Bothers , Carthy - he list is endless - all performing witout P.A.
For me, the P.A. in a smallish room has created an amateur "X factor" feel.
Affluence has been a contributory factor in my thoughts about the Subject matter ,and I'm left with a song which was compiled by Gene Raskin (spelling ) which was rarely sang at folk clubs - because it entered the hit parade and I shall sing it whenever I think about all the lovely people I've ever met in the Folk scene over these last 50 years - " Those were the days my friend(s) ".
If I look to the future and don't forget our British society is rapidly changing from the WASP (plenty of Catholics as well!!) of the REVIVAL, my guess would be that there will be acoustic clubs ( with P.A.) which will incorporate Folk music (as we generally term it) and combine it with the likes of the Beatles, Kinks and other enjoyable music which young folk might regard as nostalgic and entertaining. Who knows ???
The Folk clubs are coming to a dignified end, purely related to the ages of their attendees - no worries - let's hope it's just like a dying fire and that there's still plenty of wood around to get it blazing again.
Might see yaz at Saltburn next weekend Friday 8th August if not , all enjoy what you're doing .
Cheers Betsy

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 04:06 AM

"For me, the P.A. in a smallish room has created an amateur "X factor" feel."
correct, please forgive me Betsy for agreeing with you,I wouldnt want you to by association be accused of making a stupid comment.
"There was originally much merit in chorus singing, and, effort by performers to " get the chorus across", all done without the aid of a P.A. system which has to my mind created a barrier between performer(s) and audience in smallish (max 100 folk) rooms"
agreed , with the proviso there still is much merit.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: r.padgett
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 04:39 AM

Get out into the pubs in your area on a weekend having asked the publican if they would like live folk music and song, publicise it in music shops, colleges and shop windows


Play and sing and wait for the response

Ray

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Mandoman77
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 06:01 AM

Betsy, a pretty good critique if I might say so, everything you say highlights the problem others seem to deny.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Betsy
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 06:13 AM

Hi Padge , you forgot to insert " Sam Smiths " Pubs.
OK -- I'm just being a bit mischievous.
A number of us (varying between 8 and 12) meet on Mondays in a pub.
Some good musicians, and, anyone can sing what the F8ck he or she wants, when and for as many songs as they want.
It really works - tunes the same.
The Landlord populates an empty space, and punters listen, come and go
and of course spend a few bob on "pop".
If the same musicians went to a Folk Club they'd have to pay a couple of quid entrance privilege, and need to hang about to sing one song or a couple of tunes, but THAT suits some people.
Padge I'll see ya next weekend at Saltburn mate.
Dick ,I'm thrilled that we seem to concur - not 100%, but that's good enough for me ( and you ) I hope.

Cheers

Betsy

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Brian Peters
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 07:53 AM

Betsy's first post is very true but I also agree with what Vic Smith sais some way back. Although the home-made music and choruses were very much a part of what turned me on to this stuff, it was also a huge thrill to able to watch really top-notch singers and musicians performing jut a few feet away, in a room maybe just twice the size of my living room. And, although people have moaned for years about 'library-like atmosphere' and so on, those small acoustic spaces were and are probably the best place to put over a ballad and get rapt attention from an audience.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 09:11 AM

"And, although people have moaned for years about 'library-like atmosphere' and so on, those small acoustic spaces were and are probably the best place to put over a ballad and get rapt attention from an audience."
absolutely because the audience have come specifically to LISTEN to the music

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 09:28 AM

How many folk clubs ever get rid of their MC?

How many pension-age MCs ever get rid of their decades-old presentation style?

I'm sure a lot of younger people would find the acts in a folk club just fine, but wouldn't get past the toe-curling introductions by geriatrics who sound like a cross between Jimmy Savile and a church fete bingo caller.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 09:28 AM

is that right. I wonder. aren't we better at home listening to Paul Brady sing Arthur Mcbride or Peggy and the Soldier on the stereo, than the last few versions I've heard.

the folk club -   sometimes - well it puts you under a microscope -sometimes the scrutiny doesn't help some performers.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 06:20 AM

and again - lets face it - there are no longer (for whatever reason) enough clubs to support all of us who perform.

gone are the days when Christy Moore could embark on a two month tour of Lancashire.

so that means either the musicians, those of us who wish to attain some proficiency in our music, the kind that comes from devoting your life - either we find work outside folkclubs. or its just an absorbing hobby.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 06:39 AM

Al - you make me ponder about how much demand there is -and is it growing or declining? I looked at the Broadstairs programme and was surprised to see very few of what I would think of as headliners. As most people buy season tickets my thoughts were - are they cutting back on the cost of these acts?
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 06:58 AM



On the other hand, he now manages to sell out runs of several nights in venues seating thousands in a matter of hours.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 07:01 AM

That previous post was in response to:

gone are the days when Christy Moore could embark on a two month tour of Lancashire.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,bathfolkfest
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 07:10 AM

In Bath we've realized that the only way to keep folk alive is to get kids involved. We run workshops for 8-18 year olds and have just got Arts Council funding to set up a youth band. The band will be performing their first gig alongside Ards CCE(the highly acclaimed youth band from Ireland) as part of the Bath Folk Festival(9th -17th August.) We also run a traditional summer school as part of the festival which is open to adults and children. It's a great way for people to practise new skills or maybe rekindle those that are a bit rusty. If you're in the area we would be delighted for you to join us- lots of great headline acts, sessions on every afternoon and evening, ceilidhs etc etc. If you're not local you can camp for £30 for the whole festival. Check out the website if you want to find out more www.bathfolkfest.org Hope to see some of you there.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 07:16 AM

Sorry - the website you need is www.bathfolkfestival.org.
Too many late nights- don't know what I'm doing!!!!

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 07:58 AM

well done bathfolk fest, a positive response.