BS: Last of the Yazidis

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 02:02 PM

Some reports say 350 Yazidis massacred and a thousand women and children abducted.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 01:23 PM

Another massacre of these dwindling people is reported today.
"At least eighty men" executed, and the women and children dragged off into slavery, victims of cruel, intolerant fanatics whose intention is to expand their caliphate ever wider.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:33 AM

Wrong thread Jim.
This is about the extermination and enslavement of a people.
Everything is not about Israel, except inside your prejudiced mind.

You have two current Israel threads for your hate, and another hundred that you could refresh, or you could start some more, but this thread is about the genocide of an ancient and gentle people.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:26 AM

Definition of Human Shields -
"Human shield is a military and political term describing the deliberate placement of non-combatants in or around combat targets to deter the enemy from attacking these targets. It may also refer to the use of persons to literally shield combatants during attacks, by forcing them to march in front of the combatants. A third meaning is when a combatant holds another person in front of them to shield them from projectiles (usually bullets), often by holding then in a headlock or nelson hold."

Nowhere does it refer to defenders against aggression taking positions among the people they are defending - that is an Israeli redefinition of the term.
If opposition fighters were st take positions in the open, as is being demanded, they would be wiped out immediately and those under attack would be left defenceless.
Israeli troops have mounted indiscriminate attacks on civilians for four weeks now, slaughtering opposition and non-combatants alike.
If the U.S. ever allows an enquiry to take place (it is doing its best to prevent one) I have no doubt that it will be found that war crimes have been committed to a massive degree.
Hopefully, this will include the Israeli 'death squads' which have gone about executing survivors.
Jim Carroll

KILLING SURVIVORS   

ISRAELI SOLDIER ARRESTED

EXECUTION

WAR CRIMES

EXPERIMENTAL WEAPONS

US ARMING WAR CRIMES

ETHNIC CLEANSING

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 04:52 AM

Steve, let me explain once again for you.
"Human shields" refers to Hamas operating from civilian areas, which they do.

We have two current threads about Israel.
This thread is about a desperate people experiencing actual genocide while its women and children are sold into slavery.

There are other issues in the world than Israel!

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 04:44 AM

I also agree that we should never have become involved in destabilising Iraq and Libya, but SRS, we have to deal with the consequences which have arisen from our foolish, or politically motivated actions.
The senseless slaughter of women and children by lunatic fundamentalist terrorists must be stopped, as the fear it engenders could spread the virus of fanaticism and provide a huge power base for radical Islam.


If they, the Islamists, ever get into a position to dictate their agenda, we are all truly fucked.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:49 PM

Sorry, misquoted you. You didn't say "all the world knows". You said "that they do this is well known to everyone and anyone who has any knowledge at all" (I knew a bloke down the pub who was so knowledgeable about 501 that he could do the maths in a split second, but who was as thick as pigshit when it came to anything else). Actually, what you said was worse. However, they're both prime examples of weasel words (do look it up on wiki), so well done.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:31 PM

You claim, groundlessly, that Hamas employs human shields. You have no evidence for this, and you have no evidence because it isn't true. The people of Gaza don't complain about it and there are one and three-quarter millions of them. You must think they're all mugs or something (I wouldn't put it past you as you are so racist). If you have real evidence for human shields in Gaza, let's be having it. You seem to think that saying things like "all the world knows..." seals your lies as facts. Well they don't. Evidence please, or just shut up about it. Or, in your case, do us all a favour and just shut up anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 03:01 PM

So you do not believe Hamas operates from civilian areas, and you do believe Gaza is experiencing genocide?

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 12:18 PM

AMEN!

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 12:00 PM

This is one of the few times I agree completely with ollaimh.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 11:50 AM

The crime of using human shields refers to Hamas operating from civilian areas so the can not be hit without hurting civilians.

That they do this is well known to everyone and anyone who has any knowledge at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 11:29 AM

there are many minorities being wiped out in Iraq and on the levant by militant islam. it's genocide.   however it doesn't excuse the western interference in the region--mainly American,which has always resulted in violent and unintended consequences, because those formulating policies are about as ignorant as keith or terribus on this list.

destabalizing Iraq, at tremendous cost, was evil and foolish and now the chickens are coming home to roost. saddam was bad, but if we have no way of crating anything but chaos we in the west should stay out.

destabalizing iran with the mozedheg coup was equally evil and foolish and made irian an enemy. they never learn.

and Israeli has commited major war crimes. no recognized world class ngo has supported the Israeli claim that hamas uses human shields. that's propaganda. hamas is evil but that's what you get when you take all the land and water. if Israeli had stopped it's settlements after oslo(almost 25 years ago) then they would have a chance at peace now. they have continued to steal land and water and now neither gaza nor the west bank are sustainable states. they depend on united nations handouts and money in aid. Israel created this situation and a few rockets are the least they should expect. they killed hundreds of civilians. gaza is a genocide in progress.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 09:13 AM

Oh bugger, both hands in the air on that one. :-( On one of my non-drinking days as well!

But still not very nice, which was my point really.

But not on Iraqi civilian deaths. You can shout FACT in capitals as much as you like but your FACTS were based on a bunch of outrageous statistical extrapolations. It's still there for anyone to read. You do seem to confuse fact with fancy, even more so than me with my duff execution figures. There are several interpretations and ways of collecting data. Rattling on about whose is better than whose is just digging holes. It was a lot of people and it shouldn't have happened and it was our fault and it helped to generate another era of terrorism for us to confront. First and foremost, it generated much misery and instability in Iraq, and we're reaping the whirlwind once again.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:41 AM

Steve, he's embarrassed about it, but he dwells on just the ones he supposes (without evidence) were "soldiers" and prattles on vaguely (without evidence) how all the other two-thirds, who were definitely not soldiers

No!
I just say that the figures prove Hamas lies about how many civilians have died by counting its fighters as civilians.
That is a fair and reasonable comment.

The photos were to rubbish your claim that Hamas has no army.
They call themselves the al Qassam Brigades and here are some photos from a very non-Zionist site.
http://abuhudzaifahthalibi.wordpress.com/2014/07/
http://abuhudzaifahthalibi.wordpress.com/2012/11/21/tentara-cengeng-vs-tentara-allah/

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 01:59 AM

If I were Michael, I'd hide under the bed in case a Muslim is nearby.
I'd advise a Bacofoil helmet as well. You can't be too sure.

========

Yes yes yes. Mock away. Have a ☯ taking the piss.

Then reflect that every great change that has happened over the last couple of centuries -- universal manhood suffrage; votes for women; abolition of cap-pun -- has come about quite suddenly after public agitation by a smallish pressure group [Chartists, Suffragettes], or even an individual [Sydney Silverman MP; Violet Van Der Elst, the American woman living in London who would make an impassioned speech outside every prison where a hanging was taking place], who have invariably been mocked & scorned as loonies & eccentrics: till all of a sudden - BOOM! - it has happened after all.

And now the same sort of contemptuous ooh-hahaha laughter for those of us who admit to being scared at what ISIS might just achieve here. ISIS are the ones with that sort of impetus now; and they are, true to form, getting exactly that sort of mockery from fools and ostriches like the poster of above paste & his mates. Who may yet, I say again, live to see their granddaughters publicly caned on their bare bottoms in Trafalgar Square for showing too much ankle [which is happening in Saudi & Yemen & N Nigeria right now, as even a fule kno]. Then they may laugh on the other side of their priggish self-satisfied faces -- as long as their heretical heads remain on their stupid shoulders.

So go on then: giggle away while the going's good. You'll learn...

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 01:47 AM

Qur'an, so far you have made no point at all let alone a valid or substantive one.

As for your disdain for bandying numbers about, I see you are not particularly averse to doing the same yourself:

"The US executes over a hundred people a year. Unbelievable."

Your only problem with numbers Stevie old son is that I tend to get mine correct and you tend to get yours wrong, e,g:

The US does not execute over a hundred people a year - FACT

The number of Iraqis killed in the period March 2003 to December 2011 was nowhere even remotely close to your 1,003,000 it was just over one-tenth of that number - FACT.

If you are going to make definitive statements then you had best be fully prepared to back those statements up - so far you haven't.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 09:06 PM

"The US executes over a hundred people a year. Unbelievable."

You are right Shaw, it IS unbelievable. Since 'over a hundred' is a nebulous quantity, I can only say that your post overstates the number by much MORE THAN DOUBLE in the last 4 years, and MORE THAN 3 TIMES on average since executions kicked back in in 1976 (average 36 executions per year in whole of USA). It took me about ten minutes to get the actual numbers by from several sources by google searching "USA executions", "Prisoners executed USA" or similar.

Have fun checking it out, pal.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: pdq
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 08:10 PM

"The US executes over a hundred people a year. Unbelievable."


For the record, the United States has executed an average of 35 murderers per year since 1976 when a moritorium was lifted.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:16 PM

The US executes over a hundred people a year. Unbelievable.

We could try fighting injustice everywhere, minnow, instead of revelling in instances you think you've found that do nothing save feed your prejudices.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:07 PM

Yazidi Kurdish girls being sold by ISIS jihadis for $10. Unbelievable, but Sharia permits taking non-Muslim female POWs as sex slaves.

Yazidis tormented by fears for women and girls kidnapped by Isis jihadis

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 06:40 PM

Well, Teribum, I must say I love all your extrapolations. I'm not wasting any more time bandying numbers with you because you'll always get stupid about it all, as you've demonstrated. You're very much like Keith in a lot of ways. A lot of people get killed in Gaza, he's embarrassed about it, but he dwells on just the ones he supposes (without evidence) were "soldiers" and prattles on vaguely (without evidence) how all the other two-thirds, who were definitely not soldiers, got killed because they were human shields. Well I suppose a photo on a highly-biased Israeli's blog might have been "evidence" of some sort. Do they have Photoshop in Israel? You have failed to address the substantive point I made in the post of mine that got you so animated (which, as we know, was you faking), in spite of my now mentioning it quietly for the third time. Do go back and take a look. On second thoughts, don't bother. We don't want your blood pressure up. Israel needs you. Don't forget to tell them about all those "terrorists" who should all be summarily killed without trial, etc. Gosh, where would western civilisation be without your sort?

Amazing, innit, how a dodgy photo and a hazy video clip represent Israel's sword of truth, whereas five hundred dead kids and thousands of demolished homes in Gaza merely prove that Hamas do nothing but lie. Oh, and murder. Murder everybody. Everyone dead was murdered by Hamas. Gosh.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 06:18 PM

I've spent my whole life taking on and distancing myself from racists, including antisemites. I worked in the East End of London for thirteen years (including several years living in a council flat in Poplar), working in schools in one of the most ethnically-diverse areas of the country. I fought racism in my classroom, as a trade unionist and in the community. I was a member of the Anti-Nazi League and was a good friend of Blair Peach. My anti-racism antennae are extremely sensitive and I don't need ignorant and bigoted dolts like you to try "educating" me about the matter, thank you. I have yet to detect antisemitism here. Your saying stupid things, as in your last post, does not change that. Your best bet would be to calm down (dear) and give us some direct evidence of any antisemitic things you've come across anyone here saying. Perhaps you need to consult a decent dictionary first to find out what the term means (you seem pretty clueless about it). Let me start you off: criticism of the actions of the Israeli state is not antisemitism. Criticism of Jews for being Jews is antisemitism. I have no time for Hamas, but one thing is for sure. Contrary to what you think, Hamas has not murdered every single Palestinian child who has died in this conflict. That is just stupid, brainless, bigoted - and racist. Now go off and do your goblin dancing, you clown.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 03:31 PM

So, Steve, you keep your eyes shut and don't read the posts by the three stooges?


Or are you lying?


Which is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 03:16 PM

I haven't noticed any anti-semites here.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 11:18 AM

Musket, if your view is contradicted by the Geneva conventions and the laws of armed conflict, who give a shit what an ignorant buffoon like you thinks?

You have had it explained to you in the simplest of terms, but it all went right over your silly little head.

But yes, you have managed to learn some naughty words.
Be content with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 11:08 AM

"The Palestinian Ambassador to the U.N. Human Rights Council, Ibrahim Khraishi admitted on a live television interview recently, in a moment of extreme candor, that Hamas are the ones perpetrating war crimes against Israel and not the other way round.

His comments, which were made on a Palestinian Authority TV interview in July and translated by MEMRI, are particularly interesting as the U.N., over the last few days, has put together a panel of so-called experts to compile a report on alleged Israeli war crimes against the Palestinians. The claims arise over Israel's actions during its recent defensive war against Hamas in Gaza, and its response to the launching of thousands of rockets and the digging of dozens of terror tunnels.

For fear of being taken to the International Criminal Court for prosecution, Khraishi advised his interviewer that it was best all round if the issue was not raised with the U.N. In his own words, "each and every" Palestinian missile fired on Israel constitutes "a crime against humanity," while he admitted that Israel "followed the legal procedures" when carrying out retaliatory attacks against Hamas terrorists, who purposely embed themselves within civilian populations.

Even a Hamas spokesman admitted on a TV interview recently that: "The Israelis warned them to evacuate their homes before the bombardment. As for the missiles launched from our side, we never warn anyone about where these missiles are about to fall or about the operations we carry out."

U.N. Watch, an NGO body that monitors the U.N., reported that Ambassador Ibrahim Khraishi wasn't coy in his assertions of Palestinian war crimes. As he said himself:

"I am not a candidate in any Palestinian elections, so I don't need to win popularity among the Palestinians. The missiles that are now being launched against Israel, each and every missile constitutes a crime against humanity, whether it hits or misses, because it is directed at civilian targets."

Khraishi spelled out very clearly the fact that, in his opinion, the Israeli side followed proper war protocol, unlike the terrorist factions occupying Gaza:

"Please note that many of our people in Gaza appeared on TV and said that the Israelis warned them to evacuate their homes before the bombardment. In such a case, if someone is killed, the law considers it a mistake rather than an intentional killing because [the Israelis] followed the legal procedures."

The new U.N. commission, which was just announced, is being headed by well-known anti-Israel genocide expert William Schabas. Undoubtedly, it will make a mockery of the real facts on the ground in the ongoing conflict between the Jewish State and the Palestinians, and will likely echo the previous discredited inquiry chaired by Richard Goldstone.

based on past performance, the U.N. is unlikely to bring Hamas or the Palestinian Authority to task for firing thousands of rockets indiscriminately on Israeli towns and villages. The Hamas policy, which it does not deny, is to purposely fire those rockets from schools and mosques in the hope that Israeli retaliations would cause maximum Palestinian civilian casualties and garner world support against Israel.

The fact that Israel is being taken to task by the U.N. for alleged war crimes in Gaza is absurd, and a disgrace to the United Nations whose whole purpose is supposed to be to champion human rights and not oppress them."

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 11:06 AM

Except, Musket, Israel is NOT committing any crimes, according to the Palestinians.


Only the Anti-Semites here have been accusing Israel of crimes.

Hamas on the other hand has committed war crimes, and even admitted it.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Musket
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 09:34 AM

If a burglar breaks into a burglar's house to steal, it isn't a problem for the magistrate to ignore the status of the owner of the house.

When people point out the atrocities the Israeli terrorists carry out, pointing out the status of Hamas is totally irrelevant. Both sides say they are defending their people.

Two wrongs remain two wrongs. Israel is wrong and the reason for stating it is the sickening defending of their crimes going on around here.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 05:00 AM

Yes clear warnings Richard - Did Hamas give any after they no doubt noted the likelihood that some of their rockets were landing inside Gaza? (Roughly 1,000 of them) - Naw thought not - Hamas gave no warnings at all, after all why should they, they are a terrorist organisation and terrorist organisations do not give a flying f**k for civilians or civilian casualties.

Shock and Awe:
"Shock and awe (technically known as rapid dominance) is a military doctrine based on the use of overwhelming power, dominant battlefield awareness, dominant maneuvers, and spectacular displays of force to paralyze the enemy's perception of the battlefield and destroy its will to fight. The doctrine was written by Harlan K. Ullman and James P. Wade in 1996 and is a product of the National Defense University of the United States."

Sorry Richard but the Vietnam War ended as far as the US was concerned in 1972 and as far as the Vietnamese were concerned in 1975. Tactical and Strategic Air power was deployed during the Vietnam War and both were successful - had the US been prepared to support the South with air power between 1972 and 1975 then the NVA would have succumbed to its effects just as their Viet Cong predecessors ( Failed Tet offensive in 1968 - after which the VC played very little part). First talks were the result of US bombing in the North and the mining of Haiphong.

Desert Storm - won by gaining air superiority, determined by air power
Bosnia & Kosovo - determined by air power
Sierra Leone - determined by air power
Afghanistan - determined by air power
Iraq - determined by air power
Libya - determined by air power
Mali - determined by air power
Syria - being determined by air power

In all of the above "shock and awe" was only ever applied once against Iraq in 1991

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 04:26 AM

That is unfair Richard.
You accept that Israel has the right to defend itself against the rockets and tunnels.
That requires hitting their sites.
Because civilians have not been evacuated as they legally should have been they give warnings, even though it gives advantage to Hamas.

It is unreasonable to deny Israel the right to defend itself from the war criminals just because they are war criminals.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 04:16 AM

Clear warnings by the IDF "We will kill civilians if they stay there" - it says it all really.

But to stay on the Yazidi and IS - one swallow does not make a summer and as of a little while ago "shock and awe" is going to be just as useful as it was in Vietnam. IS are detestable maniacs but believing that they will run rather than hide in plain sight is unrealistic. Do you really believe that depopulating most of the middle east is acceptable or a long-term solution? How well did it work for the Romans?

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 04:06 AM

Funny thing Musket - I can point you to examples of the IDF giving warnings to the civilian population of Gaza with a view to civilian casualties being minimised - but I cannot find one single example of Hamas doing the same. Perhaps you could? But I will not be holding my breath waiting for your answer, the question like most put to you will be ignored.

Hamas/Fatah/Islamic Jihad will fight to the very last drop of innocent civilian blood in Gaza and then they will slink away to relocate in the West Bank, Syria or in Lebanon to valiantly continue their doomed struggle. Their leadership will be slightly "miffed" about this as they would have lost one of their main income streams.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Musket
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 02:52 AM

If I get this right, you can terrorise Gaza, bombing schools, hospitals and residential areas but if the leader goes on the telly to say they are minimising civilian casualties, Keith reckons that isn't a war crime.

It'll be interesting when Netanyahu and his generals end up in The Hague then, they can have their solicitor instruct Keith. Judges are more convinced when advocates actually believe the shit they come out with.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 02:40 AM

Richard:

"FFS, Keith, where are Hamas going to evacuate other people to? Gaza is a densely populated prison camp, or hadn't you noticed?"

Your question denies the reality that there was never any attempt by Hamas to move people to a place of safety, and reports of them actually ordering people to remain in the full knowledge that their rocket launching sites would be targeted, and in spite of clear warnings by multiple methods being broadcast by the IDF.

But to humour your idiotic question - "Where could Hamas evacuate people to" - the concrete air raid shelters they had built for "their own people" perhaps? To the defined "open spaces" declared by the IDF? To "open spaces" defined through negotiation between Hamas/the UN/ICRC/IDF? But as both you and I know Richard, Hamas did not make any attempt to save civilian life in Gaza because that is not on their agenda is it? Saving civilian life in Gaza does not work in Hamas favour does it - Hamas actually wants civilians to die - so that useful idiots such as yourself, Christmas, Greg F, Musket and Steve [Qur'an] Shaw and many others on this forum can witter on about it from your collectively, highly selective and biased view point.

And by all means let us return to the point of Isis and the Yazidi:

"... what is "shock and awe" going to do with Isis working like guerilla insurgents?"

Ah but Richard ISIS was not "working" like guerrilla insurgents were they? They were acting like a victorious conquering power, right down to the parades of captured prisoners, public executions of the same and displays of war booty taken. And what a "teeny-weenie" little exposure to "shock and awe" has done is to stop them doing that hasn't it. Just this morning on the Beeb we've had reports of any emergency evacuation of refugees by airlift from the mountain top is now no longer necessary because those people are now able to make their own way off the mountain - WHY? Because these brave Jihadis who only seem to be brave when faced by defenceless civilians found out that roaming about in their "Technicals" blasting away at unarmed people sheltering in the hills resulted in a visit from a Hellfire missile, so they've run and they've dived for cover. Their choice now is to slink away them selves to find some sort of position they can defend or just simply run, because they know that fairly soon there will be people on the ground backed to the hilt by that air power coming to get them.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 02:14 AM

Ah [Qur'an] Jaysus - INDEED!!!!!

First google entry and you should have looked, read, analysed what was being said - If you had you would have discovered that your little Cut'n'paste supports precisely what I said:

Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll conducted August 12–19, 2007, ESTIMATED 1,033,000 violent deaths due to the Iraq War. The range given was 946,000 to 1,120,000 deaths. A nationally representative sample of approximately 2,000 Iraqi adults answered whether any members of their household (living under their roof) were killed due to the Iraq War.

An estimate []Qur'an] is exactly that - an estimate - it is not a hard and fast number - the number of people who died at any particular incident is - the number of people who die in hospital is an actual number not an estimate - the number of people who are buried is an actual number not an estimate.

A batch sample - you ask 2,000 people from a country with a population of of 30 million then transpose their answers to reflect it as though that was applicable right across the board - how f**kin' stupid can you get.

Iraq Body Count give two figures a low and a high, they then add what they call the Wikileaks factor which IIRC is around 13,000. The low figure comes from instances where people have died and that death can be verified and has been confirmed by two independent sources. The high is where people have died and that death can only be verified and confirmed by one independent source.

ORB and the John Hopkins Study (It was only reported in The Lancet - and you have the gall to criticise my research you Muppet) have both been comprehensively dismissed as being wildly inaccurate and both were timed for publication with the sole intent of influencing the elections in the USA - Ask George Soros he paid for and orchestrated the John Hopkins one - the study that refused to submit its data or its questions for critical peer review - the man actually in charge of the project was subsequently dismissed.

Now then were these 946,000 to 1,120,000 violent deaths all executions? Because for those numbers to be true they would have to be wouldn't they? Because if these 946,000 to 1,120,000 violent deaths were caused as a result of combat operations ("Collateral Damage is the popular phrase isn't it?) then what are the numbers of wounded and more importantly where were they treated - You see Stevie old son there are no records of them and as the ratio of wounded to killed in a straightforward combat scenario (Armed forces fighting one another) is normally 3:1 then for your average 1,033,000 dead you would have 3,099,000 wounded some of whom might just have needed an "elastoplast" and an asprin but most would not (particularly if bullets and bombs were the culprits). But we are talking about civilian casualties here aren't we - not straightforward combat casulaties - SO the ratios of wounded to killed in urban terrorist attacks is more in the order of 17:1 (According to Hamas - In Northern Ireland it was 11:1) So Stevie we are now looking at 1,033,000 dead and anything from 11,363,000 to 17,561,000 wounded - That Stevie represents 41.2% to 61.9% of the entire population of Iraq either killed or wounded - now rationally and logically I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT SOMEBODY MIGHT HAVE NOTICED THAT - Damned odd that they didn't eh? Which leads me to believe the figures given by Iraq's Ministry of Health, Ministry of the Interior, various NGOs and IBC.

So I will ask you again 946,000 to 1,120,000 deaths - PROVE IT

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 11:50 PM

Keith, trying to minimise casualties of non-combatants in Gaza is precisely what Israel does not do. And I am pretty sure that Isis doesn't do it either. Strange bedfellows, both sects believing that their imaginary friends give them rights to occupy wide swathes of land.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: bobad
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 05:11 PM

"the civilians had no place to go that was safe."

Bullshit! Take a look at Gaza with Google satellite - plenty of open land. Israel also notified the civilians of safe places to go where they would not target. The usual lying crap to demonize a country that is legally justified in defending itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 04:23 PM

The Israeli bombing and shelling of Gaza ranks high among recent war crimes.
Says who?
Hamas commits war crimes when it attacks civilians with missiles and mortars.
Hamas commits war crimes when it operates from civilian areas without evacuating.
It is not a war crime to resist war criminals if you take precautions to minimise civilian casualties.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 04:14 PM

The Israelis emptied a wide swatch of land in the search and destruction of tunnels; the civilians had no place to go that was safe.
The killing of Gaza civilians, destruction of hospitals and schools, and destruction of infrastructure (water and fuel lines, etc.) will cost at least $3 billion dollars to repair.

The Israeli bombing and shelling of Gaza ranks high among recent war crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 12:23 PM

Honey bee farm Khan Yunis, Gaza.
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/young-palestinian-men-work-at-the-honey-bee-farm-of-news-photo/483549771

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 12:14 PM

Richard, if you intend to fight from a civilian area, you must remove the civilians.
Many were evacuated but not by Hamas.
Gaza has an area of 139 square miles, mostly open ground where emergency accommodation could be provided.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 11:50 AM

But isn't its forum-name, when one comes to consider it, a piece of remarkable self-knowledge? -- named for an obsolete inaccurate ineffectual liable-to-recoil maker of loud noise to little purpose. Real inspiration, it seems to have had just that once.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 11:45 AM

Oh, I'm reading them again, now'n'again. Source of infinite amusement: the incomparable Mr Mouthie-Mather, world-champion point-misser and leader of the all-nations nastibuggaz.

Wonder the spiteful little heap of useless protoplasm doesn't poison itself with its own acidulous scummy spit.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Musket
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 11:04 AM

If I were Michael, I'd hide under the bed in case a Muslim is nearby.

I'd advise a Bacofoil helmet as well. You can't be too sure.

Amazing what outrageous shit you think you can get away with once you reach an age and mental state that precludes normal people taking you seriously.

Considering there are more Muslims in this country than there are stupid old men with prejudices that have no place in decent society, the majority are safe from the minority.

Good job he said he would never read my posts again. Doesn't stop him from spouting off, all the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 10:24 AM

FFS, Keith, where are Hamas going to evacuate other people to? Gaza is a densely populated prison camp, or hadn't you noticed?

And to return to the point of Isis and the Yazidi, what is "shock and awe" going to do with Isis working like guerilla insurgents? Napalm anything vaguely brown that moves? That worked REALLY well in Vietnam, didn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 09:19 AM

Jaysus. First google entry and he stops looking. :-) OK, you find the littlest numbers, I'll find the biggest. Try wiki. Here's my bit:

Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll conducted August 12–19, 2007, estimated 1,033,000 violent deaths due to the Iraq War. The range given was 946,000 to 1,120,000 deaths. A nationally representative sample of approximately 2,000 Iraqi adults answered whether any members of their household (living under their roof) were killed due to the Iraq War. 22% of the respondents had lost one or more household members. ORB reported that "48% died from a gunshot wound, 20% from the impact of a car bomb, 9% from aerial bombardment, 6% as a result of an accident and 6% from another blast/ordnance.

If that's too much for you, try the Lancet survey (same page).

Trouble with "body counts" in wars, old chap, is that bodies get shoved in piles in ditches, in mass graves, rot in the heat, get lost or get missed. Or get blown to smithereens. Nice. But uncountable.

You say tomatyto, I say tomahto. Wottevah. But the point I made in my post stands.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 09:07 AM

Simple [Qur'an]:

If 1 million have died then there must be 1 million bodies loafing about somewhere - True?

Someone would have to have seen them die, treated them as they were dying, buried them once they were dead - True? (Unless of course you subscribe to the Christmas theory that bodies are secretly removed by God knows who and disposed of in some unknown manner - as he fervently believes happened at Jenin)

Now as far as Iraq goes, their Health Ministry, their Interior Ministry and a whole raft of NGOs can only produce evidence of ~150,000 deaths - So where did Steve [Qur'an] Shaw's 1 million come from? The answer to that is:

ESTIMATES of numbers of Iraqi civilians who MAY HAVE DIED obtained from Batch Sampled Surveys undertaken in conditions that could only be described as being far from ideal.

Iraq Body Count does a rather good job in rubbishing your figures perhaps you should read it - although I doubt that you will - you and such as yourself do hate it when your inaccurate and dearly held myths get exploded.

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 08:23 AM

"A hundred thousand Iraqi kids dying in ten years of sanctions? A million Iraqi civilians killed as a result of warmonger Bush and warmonger Blair pulling the wool over the eyes of the world?" - Steve [Qur'an] Shaw

PROVE IT


DISPROVE IT

Subject: RE: BS: Last of the Yazidis
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 05:11 AM

Richard Israel can not resist Hamas without endangering the civilians all around them.
Because Hamas commits the crime of not evacuating them from around their positions does not mean they must be allowed to continue their other crime of indiscriminate attacks on civilians.
The law was not intended as an aid to terrorism but to reduce suffering in war.

Steve, re the casualty figures.
They prove that Israel is not killing indiscriminately.
Children and females are under-represented, all males are over-represented, and young men very over-represented.

That anomaly requires explanation.
The most likely would be that Hamas is lying about the status of its casualties.
Have you another?