BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!

Subject: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:17 AM

Hopefully someone among the culinary experts of Mudcat will be able to answer my question before too long. Otherwise we will be having rice with our chilli for dinner, which is obviously all wrong!

So, what I want to know is, can I use coarse polenta to make cornbread? How fine does cornmeal have to be for baking cornbread?

This stuff I have is a bit like course ground semolina, quite gritty in texture, albeit obviously ground corn rather than durum wheat. It's Italian "Polenta Bramata" - I'm hoping I can use it to bake cornbread, but I don't want to have a go without receiving some sage advice first..

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:21 AM

My recipe for cornbread calls for a mix of ground cornmeal and wheat flour. Equal parts, if I recall correctly. The cornmeal is fairly coarse. Live dangerously, give it a try!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:23 AM

Excellent, I will do as you say! Question answered and in all of four minutes. Cornbread it is, I hope this ushers in a new era of less heretical chilli eating habits in this house.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:26 AM

polenta uses a medium to course grind, while cornbread uses a fine grind as well as wheat flour to keep it light.

that said & assuming a trip to the grocer is out of the question... soaking the polenta in milk or water should soften it up enough prior to baking to keep the cornbread from being gritty. or use a food processor to grind it a bit further... if you can grind coffee or spices, how is grain any different?

what is more critical is the proportions of corn & wheat flour to liquid to get a smooth flavorful mixture that is not too dense when baked... the best tasting cornbread I ever had was made by a southerner who used bacon grease for the lipid of choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:37 AM

This is coarse ground polenta, not 'quick cook' fine ground stuff. It is pretty gritty, hence my doubts. Sadly my food processor doesn't have the whoomph to grind anything much, an electric coffee grinder would do the trick, but we don't have one of those any longer. Hmmph, I'm doubtful again! I've also just read online that coarse ground polenta will leave the cornbread gritty, which is as I suspected.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:38 AM

Over here, the dish you're eating that cornbread with is "chile" or "chili" (depending on if you're in New Mexico or Texas). Here is a good clarification of what people in New Mexico understand is "chile."

There are quite a few polenta cornbread recipes out there. Grinding apparently isn't necessary. Here's an example of a recipe that sounds same as regular cornbread:

Ingredients

1 cup all-purpose flour
1 cup polenta
2 tablespoons sugar
2 1/2 teaspoons baking powder
3/4 teaspoon salt
2 large eggs
1 cup buttermilk
About 1/4 cup (1/8 lb.) cooled melted butter or margarine

Preparation

1. In a bowl, mix flour, polenta, sugar, baking powder, and salt. In another bowl, beat eggs to blend with buttermilk and 1/4 cup butter; pour into flour mixture. Stir batter until evenly moistened.
2. Scrape batter into a buttered 8-inch square pan and spread level.
3. Bake in a 400° oven until cornbread is browned, springs back when lightly pressed in the center, and begins to pull from pan sides, 20 to 25 minutes. Use hot or cool.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:47 AM

CS, I was just reading about cornmeal on Wikipedia. You need to ask yourself if your cornmeal has fragments of hull in it. If so, it will be gritty.

I suggest you do what Sciencegeek has suggested and soak the flour in water or milk. That may soften the hulls. (I wonder if SRS's recipe calls for buttermilk in order to soften hulls.)

That said, nobody will be harmed if your cornbread is a little gritty, and some people may prefer it.

If you do what I do when I make chili, and mix 1 tablespoon cocoa (not cocoa mix) into the liquid just before serving, people will be so intrigued that they won't notice anything odd about the cornbread.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:53 AM

Anyone reading this, grind the meal before adding liquid - otherwise you'll just be making dough. I'm thinking of a way to grind without a grinder
1. even if your food processor doesn't have the oomph, grind a little and then a bit more.
2. use a pestle and mortar
3. have you got anything you can grind it between, a stone rolling pin and strong plate for example. A thick glass bottle just might work.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:58 AM

From the Guadian earlier this week: How to cook the perfect cornbread, followed by much discussion.

So in answer to your question can I use coarse polenta to make cornbread?, undoubtedly yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 12:03 PM

good suggestion about the cocoa... a small chunk of unsweetened chocolate is a great addition to chili... or a spoonful of mole sauce.

I always add more ground cumin to my chili to make it more flavorful without getting so fiery I can't eat it... :) wimp that I am...

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 12:21 PM

Ed, I knew I used to read the Grauniad for some reason.. Ta for that link! Two hours soaking is too long for Mr though, so rice it is tonight. But I am still baking the cornbread, it can go in the freezer alongside the rest of the chilli for next time.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 02:17 PM

Oh well, we had rice after all. The polenta will continue to soak until morning, at which point I will bake it, and freeze to go with chilli another day. Still a fruitful thread for me, at least I know I can use coarse polenta in cornbread now! Thanks all :)

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 03:00 PM

I'm sure it tasted fine... Columbian style red beans and rice is a wonderful dish..

having corn and beans in the same meal lets you have a complete blend of needed amino acids - complete protein. You can add whole corn/maize to the chili or pozole - which is corn kernels processed into hominey.

Having a large migrant population in western NY, it's not hard to find Goya or other brands of hispanic products.   Corn tortillas are commonly used instead of cornbread for that matter... made from finely ground hominey, "Masa", and cooked on a hot griddle.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 03:32 PM

That is why beans and rice is a great combination, they result in the complex carbohydrate that acts like protein. I never ate that particular combination until I was exposed to a lot of Puerto Rican food in New York City. My mother made a dish she called "chili" but at the most all she served was saltines on the side. Mom was of Norwegian stock who grew up north of Seattle. I still remember when a local grocery got its first bagels. Things have changed a lot in the last few decades, both in my diet and in the foods available in Seattle!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 04:24 PM

Hi, sciencegeek. I too add some cumin to my chili. I prefer seeds over powder, and I use only 1/4 tsp for a big batch. You're right about using a small piece baking chocolate, too. Choc or cocoa, either way.

If I make chili for a potluck, I substitute frenched green beans for the usual gassy beans. Boy, does that make the chili disappear! That, plus the faint chocolate taste.

I put in some chili powder, too, but not much. "Pain is not a flavor."

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 06:40 PM

Chili freaks know the difference between chili powder (a mixture of stuff with some ground red chile) from the grocery spice shelves and pure red or green ground chile.
One can use a lot of the mixture, but be careful with the pure Hatch or Chimayó chile.

I have revived one of the chili threads to put in a recipe I use a lot lately.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 09:27 PM

Use your usual recipe.

Into the already dry mixed and fat based ingrediants....

Add the appropriate liquid as BOILING WATER , plus 10% .

Bake in your usual form.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

This will render a smoother less "sandy" texture.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Janie
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:09 PM

Your meal is over by this time. Will be interested in how you liked the cornbread.

On this side of the pond (USA) there are many variants. While I often make some variant of what I call "yankee cornbread" - sweet, with either equal parts flour an cornmeal, or a slightly higher proportion of wheat flour to cornmeal, to please guests, my native taste is for grittier cornmeal, unsweetened, or with no more than a tablespoon of sweetener. Yellow or white cornmeal doesn't matter, but I like a higher proportion of cornmeal, prefer it without any sweetener at all, good and gritty, baked in a skillet with a dark, crisp crust. Coarse grinds good! No softening before hand.

I like the tastes and textures of "yankee" cornbread just fine, those recipes, however, taste and feel in the mouth more like a desert or breakfast bread to this old hillbilly.

You can't go wrong. Have cornmeal, can make cornbread, no matter the grind.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM

Why boiling water, gargoyle?

If the recipe doesn't work, CS, you could use the corn dodgers as shooting targets, a technique described by Charles Portis.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 08:03 AM

Cornbread is cooling on the kitchen counter now. I didn't have buttermilk so I used acidulated skim milk (with a teaspoon of vinegar) to activate the baking powder instead.

Thanks for the suggestion of Colombian red beans and rice btw!

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 12:04 PM

you're welcome...

I had it at a small restaurant in NYC and fell in love with it... with a side of fried plantains... yum

and hubby just picked up some plantains... uhmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 02:07 PM

The fried plantains (used when they are still dark green) are sliced diagonally (about an inch thick) and called tostones in Puerto Rico.

If the plantain ripens to a softened yellow, I wrap it whole in foil and bake it for 20-30 minutes and then melt butter and sprinkled on cinnamon sugar. Mmmmm!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 04:19 PM

See the culinary disaster thread to find out who made ze cornbread...

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Janie
Date: 21 Sep 14 - 06:01 AM

How'd it turn out, CS?

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 21 Sep 14 - 08:44 AM

back in the early 1980, hubby was a night shift foreman and had a number of Puerto Rican gals on assembly... they would bring in pans full of baked plantains to share at break time for birthdays...

he would bring home a plate full... yum

it wasn't until I could find recipes online that I able to make them myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 Sep 14 - 10:30 AM

Janie, it's in the freezer. By the time it was cooked the chilli was all gone. I thought I'd save it for later.

I know, amazing self control - who can resist fresh baked cakes and breads out of the oven? Me it seems :)

Subject: RE: BS: Urgent Cornbread Question!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Sep 14 - 11:19 AM

Either resisting it or fear of it - find out soon!

SRS