BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 11:39 AM

Me? I listen to what the people of Scotland said they wanted and have got.

Who knows, might even signal sympathy amongst the well heeled for the conservative and unionist party, as they are there to preserve the union.

Sturgeon can hopefully get on with what Westminster have devolved responsibility for rather than blaming Westminster for their own failings in government.

Its what the people want..

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 11:30 AM

The majority includes Gordon Brown who sees the Conservative party really want to split the Union. This time the blame will not be on Cameron, he saw to it that Brown saved his skin, but EVAL will spike the Labour guns. I'm surprised the NO camp cannot see that ... the Union is f####ed and Scottish Independence has only been delayed.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 10:46 AM

But what about the majority who have made it clear that

A). They have decided (no wishing necessary) to remain British subjects.

B). They want politicians to get on with health, education, welfare, enterprise and junketing trips to Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 10:01 AM

Johnny J does not have his ear to the ground as it's the NO voters who are complaining about Cameron's hi-jacking of the result without mentioning his plans for EVAL beforehand. Gordon Brown is raging and he is obviously a NO voter. Most YES voters look on in amazement and with some degree of schadenfreude at the NO mob fighting among themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Johnny J
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 05:37 AM

It's the 44.7% who seem to be making the biggest noise about it.

Most No voters can take or leave the "extra powers". They'd rather The Scottish Government learned to use those powers they already have properly, in the first instance.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 05:31 AM

It's the 55% who are now wondering what's going on. Brown accusing Cameron of setting a Tory trap and all three leaders plus Alastair Darling not bothering to turn up for the debate. And today Brown is given another chance to "save the Union". it's now a fight to save Labour as the Tories couldn't give a tinker's cuss anymore .... heads they win, tails Labour loses.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Johnny J
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 04:57 AM

The Scottish leaders.. Lamont, Davidson, and Rennie had already endorsed extra powers in June. So, it wasn't a last minute thing.

It was certainly given extra focus in the last few days whether through panic or otherwise.

Funny, how it is only the No voters who have been apparently misled or duped. Could the same thing not be said about some of The 44.7?

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 04:56 AM

Politicians do come over as idiots, especially telling two and a half million people they are gullible fools!

😹

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 04:30 AM

surely the establishment shared the 'idiotic assumption' that they needed to make an apparently generous last minute offer or the vote may have been lost to them. whether or not this offer did swing the vote to No is largely immaterial - if you make a Vow you have to honour it. the current attempt to interpret the result selectively and legislate for narrow party advantage seems calculated to create further divisions in the union and encourage the scots to turn away from westminster - (f**k thae squabbling numpties, let's just go for it!)
In fact, is this just another stage in the plan of getting the scots to leave the union - there have been so many crass and cynical errors by the better together lot that it all seems to look like a deliberate self-defeating strategy. (can't you jocks take the hint?)

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 02:30 AM

You know, what gets me is the idiotic assumption that there are people who think that without the last minute panic by the Westminster party leaders, that there would have been a yes majority vote.

Some people really do think that the electorate in Scotland are thick. Everybody who voted to remain in The UK must think SNP and sundry other yes campaigners reckon they were suckered in by politicians.

You can see where Salmond supporters get that idea. By being suckered in by politicians.

😹😹😹

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 05:14 PM

Gordon Brown has been dressed up like a kipper and is trying to show he will save the Union AGAIN by asking the Scottish people to accept less so they are still reliant on Westminster. Cameron was too clever for him. Looking at the Command Paper it is surprising how many taxes Laboir wants Scotland NOT to have. The Command Paper is online and a look at page 19 I think will shock a lot of NO voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Johnny J
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 01:23 PM

The second choice vote was for List MSPs. So they didn't vote for any particular candidate. The choice they had on the ballot paper was Vote "Alex Salmond for First Minister".

It's true they would still have been the largest party as regards directly elected MSPs in 2011 and would probably still have been able to form a Government but, without the list MSPS(Around another 20), they couldn't have had a majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 01:12 PM

Electing partly on a strength has no basis in law. That is a media concern, not a law one. To be fair to Sturgeon, the law dictates you vote for an MP to represent your constituency. Ministers are decided by the elected members. Hence Gordon Brown was legally sound as Prime Minister, as the electorate does not choose ministers.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Johnny J
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 09:34 AM

Incidentally, just as an aside.. a straw in the wind, in 2011 SNP were elected partly on the strength of the second choice question "Alex Salmond for First Minister". So is there a mandate for Nicola Sturgeon?

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Johnny J
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 06:48 AM

It will still have to go ahead in the end and, preferably within the timescale, regardless of whether or not there is agreement about English devolution. However, English MPS are still entitled to talk about such things.

Of course, whatever we get will not satisfy everybody and certainly not the more staunch members of The 45 but it will still be a majority who counts.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 06:18 AM

John, regardless of whether the "VOW" affected the result(I am of the opinion that it did), it was still a solemn promise made by the three Westminster Party leaders, and it has already been reneged upon, by linking to regional devolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 06:03 AM

English Nationalism sparked by Scottish: you cannot ask one group if they want in or out and not ask the others, which is where the mistake lay. Now they have opened Pandora's Box, they have to live with the consequences. You can gag some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you cannot gag all of the people all of the time.

Nor has the SNP taken its responsibility for its failure, Salmond may be going, but Sturgeon steps up and nothing else changes.

What model do we need? Exterior relations at a National level, split as Treasury, Foreign Office, Defence and Foreign Aid, all else at regional, I think. London makes the money, yet the regions seem to think they have a divine right to spend it: that may become a sizeable sticking point, not least with the former Treasurer of the Conservative Party, Paul Judge, becoming Lord Mayor of the City in November.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Johnny J
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 06:00 AM

Many will disagree with me here but I believe the majority of No voters weren't particularly interested in extra powers and I don't think this is what clinched the result in the campaign.

It's doubtful that YES were ever ahead in the campaign. Only a couple of polls actually showed them ahead and only by a couple of points. The establishment did panic though but they didn't have any real need.

Of course, the polls were very close but this was more to do with the lackluster and negative campaign by Better Together in general as opposed to the ultra positive "Utopian" promises from The Yes side.

If anything, the offer of extra powers carried the risk that voters might regard it as a sense of desperation on the part of Unionist politicians and just decide that they would be as well going "the whole hog" and go for full Independence anyway. After all, the offering of increasingly larger concessions by the Better Together politicians, was hardly a sign of faith in the status quo or much of an endorsement for The Union.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 03:53 AM

You're so wrong. English votes for English Laws will be agreed in November when Haig calls for Parliament to pass legislation ... Then Scottish MPs will be seen to be second class and if Labour is in power their power will be restricted. If Scotland is granted 100%income tax powers, they will not be able to vote on the budget so once again the whole shenanigan will start again? This time it will have been caused by English Nationalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 03:41 AM

In all the confusion and political shenanigans, there is one single statement of fact that all discussions are based on.

The people of Scotland wish to remain part of The United Kingdom.

No treachery by SNP or anybody can be allowed to fetter the wishes of the people as per the referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 08:06 PM

A positive economic asset base and stable income - nope
A political mandate to stand independently - nope
The ability to defend its policies in the international arena, by diplomacy backed by a military element - nope
A portfolio of International Treaties - empty
A political structure capable of planning fowards successfully more than a fortnight - nope
A civil service capable of administering its needs - nope
A central bank capable of implementing fiscal policy - nope (RBS and BoS both made it clear they'd head for the UK, and Clydesdale is already owned by the Australians)
The two pluses are presumably the NHS and Education functions, but even there they are dependent on finance

And that still depends on a further vote, which the UK will not allow them in this generation: the European precedent of continual referenda until you get the result you want won't wash here.

And now Scotland is suddenly realising that the attempt came at a price, win or lose. That was entirely predictable, but the fishmongers Salmond and Sturgeon were as ever so full of themselves they failed to realise it. So what did we see in Parliament today? SNP turning on Scottish Labour, who blame the Conservatives for being democrats. Twas ever so with the Scots, give one real power and he makes a third-world dictator look moderate: not for nothing did Idid Amin style himself as the Last King of Scotland. Every time they got near to doing something serious as a nation, the top men would start squabbling like a bunch of sulky schoolboys and it would collapse in faction, and it's clear nothing but nothing has changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 05:36 PM

""Scotland fails all but two of the tests for nationhood.""

Whose specific tests do you refer to? It seems kinda time consuming to conduct a search through google sites to understand what you refer to, when you must know.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 04:39 PM

Can't help thinking labour is putting the party before the country to the detriment of us all

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 04:13 PM

This spells the beginning of the end for the Union....roll on the election.....SNP to sweep the boards.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 03:14 PM

i can't imagine that anyone really thought that when the 3 main westminster parties promised further significant powers for a 'no' voting scotland that this would arrive promptly with all parties agreeing. i was initially impressed in a despairing way with the cynicism and ruthlessness of the establishment - but i really thought they could come with something less shambolic than this. does anyone have any faith in the westminster farrago

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 11:54 AM

Scotland fails all but two of the tests for nationhood. I suppose you could google it for details.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 10:39 AM

"" Scotland (nor Wales, nor Northern Ireland, nor England itself) is not an independent country nor is it a State. However, Scotland is most certainly a nation of people living in an internal division of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.""


Scotland is a nation of people  

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 10:14 AM

Well, now we know - Gideon and John Worthington Foulfellow don't believe in democracy enough to make a stand for England, and Millie wants to force Scottish Rule on us.
With idiots like this in charge, they actually make Farrago a realistic proposition. No wonder the population don't believe in politicians any longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 07:46 AM

One more voter than the losers, that is emphatic in law.

Of course, far more than that rejected independence. Their reasons were... actually as many reasons as there were voters. And every reason is as valid as the next. Funnily enough to say they were gullible, as SNP seem to be claiming just winds them up.

Small point, but calling it a nation when it isn't might ease the blow but kind of lowers the intelllectual impact of your posts.. It used to be a nation but there again, so did Danelaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 07:26 AM

People who voted No weren't on whe whole voting to declare that Scotland wasn't a nation. They were deciding whether their nation should stay inside a wider union or not.

Neither was the result emphatic! An emphatic win would have been had the UK gvt and unionist parties carried the result easily on their own terms as stated at the start of the campaign. Prior to the campaign the polls all showed that of the three choices (independence, the status quo, or some form of enhanced devolution) the latter choice was the most popular amongst Scots. The Scottish gvt was willing to have said third choice on the ballot paper but the UK gvt vetoed it saying the question would only be straight in or out question and that any talk of whether there should be enhanced devolution would be after the vote as it was a separate issue.

In the weeks before the vote itself the UK gvt threw in the towel on this stance and came to the conclusion that it couldn't risk trying to win on that stance as the polls had dramatically closed. So suddenly a vote No was not a vote for no change as further devolution was now guaranteed and not up for discussion only. So hardly emphatic! Actually if you have 20 people in a room who voted then 11 voted No and 9 voted Yes. Only one person would need to change their minds to make it absolutely even. I was speaking to a Canadian couple who were at our music session just the day after the vote. They made it clear they thought that No had been the proper choice - but at the same time they were astonished that the UK wide media was portraying it as a decisive win when it was so close.

As to the word Nationalist well I understand that in England the word has been tainted by the politics of the BNP etc however it doesn't carry the same association here as the first party you think of when using the word is the SNP so it doesn't have the same negative association. And to tell you the truth my first reply was because I thought you were attacking nationalists as a whole - then you said you were only having a go at one card carrying nationalist - but now again you say "nationalists tend to have a rather ugly side to their character" so again you are pointing your finger not at one person but at a big chunk of the Scottish population.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Johnny J
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 07:18 AM

I believe Uncle Alex(Salmond) said

"It is important to say that our referendum was an agreed and consented process and Scotland has by a majority decided not, AT THIS STAGE, to become an independent country."

(Emphasis mine)

His implication seems to be that we will be convinced eventually. He may or may not be correct but it's just as possible that things could go the other way too. It's a fallacy on the part of The Yes side to assume that the only reason a majority voted "No" was because they were, as yet, unconvinced("Deferred YES supporters" as opposed to Nos...Salmond said). They have to accept that many people want to be part of The UK regardless as they actually believe in The Union.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 06:54 AM

By the way, did I mention that Scotland rejected independence?

It was in all the newspapers apparently. David Dimbleby did a programme on the telly about it.



👎

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 06:33 AM

Out of interest, Scotland is a country using historic definition, but it is not a nation as it fails on six out of the eight tests for nationhood. Your "nation of Scotland" is an oxymoron.

In addition, the democratic will of the people living there did not wish for nationhood when it was offered last month.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 05:24 AM

No Paddy. They represent those who vote for them. They serve the inhabitants of Scotland. In terms of whether they are representative of Scotland is another matter after their whole reason for existing was emphatically declined by the people.

Their constitution speaks of their "nationalist agenda" by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 11 Oct 14 - 03:59 AM

It's the Scottish National Party, a party representing the people who inhabit the nation of Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 10:19 AM

Of course he has the wrong impression....

On just about everything judging by his posts on Mudcat.

My comments re SNP are genuine, but I can't let it pass without agreeing the SNP has the word "nationalist" in it. I can't help but be wary of anybody wanting to discard other influences in order to take control. "Nationalists" tend to have a rather ugly side to their character.

They may have had better early support if they used the word "independence" instead of "nationalist." It gives them a whiff of UKIP and BNP ideology.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 08:11 AM

I'm not sure that the increase will lead to in fighting at the higher level within the party. Maybe at a local level yes as new some new members make a mark on the ground whilst existing ones defend their place perhaps - but that is maybe even exaggerated. In my experience (limited though it is) many of the new members aren't really political animals as such. Just people who were at first inspired by the campaign, then disappointed by the result, who just now want to continue showing some kind of support. Kind of a good problem to have. The other parties would give their eye teeth to have the kind of membership in Scotland that the Nats now have. If we are to believe the stats then their membership is now standing at somewhere between 25 to 30 times the size of the Lib Dem membership in Scotland and perhaps approaching as much as double what their membership is in the UK as a whole !

I think the defeat itself may have led to a fracturing of the party but the way it came so close along with the holding up of support shown in voting intention polls and the massive unprecendented surge in membership has seem them just as unified and possibly more confident than they were pre campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Johnny J
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 07:45 AM

In recent years, the SNP has styled itself as a left of centre social democratic party which also happens to believe in Independence.

It wasn't always thus, of course, although while in Government they have adopted a pragmatic and moderate approach.

However, their supporters are extremely diverse and they attract votes from ex or natural Tory voters in rural areas and disillusioned Labour supporters in The Central Belt. There are also many other pro Independence/separatist factions who will vote for them as they see them as the best route to achieve their aims.

So, inevitably, there will be many supporters with some quite extreme and even bigoted views and quite a few "nut jobs" into the bargain. The increase in membership may well lead to a lot of in fighting within the party.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 07:27 AM

Point taken - sorry! Misread it as a wider sweep. Personally I don't think Salmond follows the populist line on that. I don't think equality for gays or telling people the country needs more immigration are typically ways to gain lots of support. There could be a third scenario other than the Ake is a liar or Salmond is a fraud idea! Ake may simply have gotten the wrong impression.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 06:44 AM

Allan. You realise of course I was referring to one card carrying member, Akenaton. I know damned well he isn't representative of SNP and they stand for everything he despises, such as equality, social justice and fairness for all. SNP pushed through gay marriage for crying out loud. They are not bigoted at all.

They do manage however to get ignorant bigots to think they are for them also and seem happy to see them as members. Interesting. Akenaton claimed on this thread that Salmond doesn't give a shit for gay people and he appeases anybody of a liberal outlook but he is more in line with Akenaton's views. Akenaton also claims to have met Salmond and gained that impression.

I sent a link to his claims to SNP communications email address, together with his real name and location. Either he is a liar or Salmond is a fraud, it seems...


(I sent a link to his claims to The Scotsman too, just for a laugh.)

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 06:28 AM

As to the tax issue! Coincidentally the first new Scottish tax in over 300 years was announced yesterday. The Scottish Government's new Land & Building Transactions Tax means that from next April most people buying properties over £125K are going to be better off.
I was just working out an example based on a purchase price of £270K. Under the present Stamp Duty the buyers would pay 3% of the total purchase price amounting to £8,100. When the new tax comes into force next April they would pay no tax on the initial £135K; then 2% of the next £115K up to £250K which amounts to £2,300; then 10% for the £20K over £250K which amounts to £2,000. So £4,300 tax in total. A saving of £3,800.
Most purchasers here in the Borders, both movers and first time buyers, will benefit - with the cut off point where the new tax starts to cost you more being £325,000.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 06:20 AM

Troubadour do you have some evidence that it is only the Scots who vote on English matters? The fact that it is only the Scots, or at least mainly the Scots, who the English media moan about doesn't mean it is only the Scots voting! In fact the SNP are one party who on principle don't vote on English only matters! So on that point surely you should be applauding them?

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 06:13 AM

There are bigots in Scotland just as there are everywhere but it doesn't do to almost suggest people are bigoted because they are SNP members. The stance of the SNP itself is that when they are talking about Scottish people they are talking about the people normally living here in Scotland - regardless of where they originated from. The vast bulk of SNP supporters take that line too. A party can't legislate for what every individual member of the public says online etc!!

There are shadowy racist groups in Scotland - just as there are elsewhere - but those of the nationalist variety are only tiny groupings of no consequence! Members of Siol nan Gaidheal (Seed of the Gael) were expelled from the SNP decades ago. They are a tiny organisation though and the bigoted groups to worry about do tend to be unionist orientated. As we saw in George Square several weeks ago.

I was shocked by one comment earlier this year here in Kelso. In the aftermath of the accident at the Jim Clarke Rally some neighbours said to me "I hope the people killed are from down south?" I kind of know what they meant in that they hoped it was no-one they knew - however to specifically say they hoped it was someone from down south shocked me. But no they aren't nationalists. At least not Scottish nationalists supporters. They are the only people locally with UKIP posters in their windows.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Musket
Date: 10 Oct 14 - 03:26 AM

Multiculturalism is something Scotland is proud of. The SNP shout it from the rooftops in fact.

They can sideline the bigots whilst collecting membership fees from them. Neat trick 😎

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 14 - 08:12 PM

akenaton i can't agree with you about what you see as the (negative) 'long term effects of multiculturalism' . this is something the english are (also) pretty good at - just ask -eg the italians, irish, caribbeans and scots how well it's going. and the asian folk would be having a much better time were it not for our repulsive media and shit stirring politicians.
there are a few towns with racial tensions but the people are ok -it's the shape shifting lizards that have caused any'nightmarish racial landscape' with their horrible newspapers and scapegoating media messages. and the zombies who buy the daily mail and approve of the whole westminster circus - a least they are(were) our own feckless eejits. shoudn't generalise but plenty of england also rocks and much of scotland is shit, nothing would drag me from cumbria to lanarkshire for example, and bristol and brighton should be in scotland. show them how to party without chips and annoint the greens as the party of choice for all of us who need to make them count. we raise our flags over the festivals, boris gets his cannons out , anyway -miliband, cleggand cameron your time has gone. now wander off into the woods and save your mates from slaughtering wild animals and birds. es

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Oct 14 - 07:58 PM

And, now, for something completely different:


unrelated 



The Top of the Pyramid: The Rothschilds, the British Crown and the Vatican Rule the World - See more at: http://truthalerts.com/the-top-of-the-pyramid-the-rothschilds-the-british-crown-and-the-vatican-rule-the-world-2/#sthash.r3D5Jwp6.dpuf

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: Johnny J
Date: 09 Oct 14 - 07:27 PM

Troubadour,

I don't wish you disclose any information which might affect your privacy but I think it might be relevant whether or not you live in Scotland...... re your last post.

Council tax has been frozen here since 2007. While they are compensated by The Scottish Gov, they don't have the same freedom to raise extra money themselves. So difficult choices have to be made at local gov level.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 09 Oct 14 - 06:50 PM

"local authorities have also been strapped for cash especially with the council tax freeze."

Not by any means all, in fact I suspect not many!

My own County Council is cutting services, while sitting on over twenty million pounds idle liquid dosh, earmarked, they say, "For a rainy day".

Newsflash! It's been pissing down for a couple of years, but you would rather have a dig at the government than do YOUR job!

This is representative of the mindset of those to whom some people suggest devolved powers should be given.

As for Scotland, I'm sure that would be King Alex will still be pushing to take Scotland in the direction he wants, and therefore an English parliament relieved of all who serve constituencies in Scotland is essential, and as soon as possible.

The Welsh and Northern Irish don't bother themselves with purely English matters, but the Scots, who decry rule from Westminster, still insist upon voting on such.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Oct 14 - 12:29 PM

Well achmelvich, I don't really think the rest of the UK has very much going for it, the encouragement of cheap labour from abroad instead of realistic retraining programmes for our young folks, has led to a nightmarish racial landscape in England.
No thought was given to the long term effects of multiculturalism, and lack of integration.

Wales has very little to contribute the population being left to rot after the demise of engineering and mining.

NI is still a swamp of militant Unionism and resentful republicanism.

Sorry....they are all basket cases. Only Scotland has much to be positive about, and we have been thwarted for now by a posse of liars.

Subject: RE: BS: Yes Scotland.....and the rest of us?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 09 Oct 14 - 09:53 AM

( akenaton and musket - have you ever considered starting your own private thread, you could always choose different names for all the other ones)....anyway..... the recent referendum in scotland gave a great boost to participation in the democratic process - surely a good thing whichever way the scots voted. what was also evident was a widespread mistrust of the ridiculous westminster pantomime. is there a chance of any such positive developments south of the border as we approach the next general election? why should scots be able to understand our political process better than the english, where the only 'alternative' seems to be UKIP? surely we can do better than that?
(as interesting to some as the past tax raising powers of holyrood may be, it doesn't shed a great deal of light on how the rest of the UK can move forward positively)