Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)

Subject: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST,Cori S.
Date: 28 Oct 14 - 05:27 PM

Hey, does anyone have the album "Celtic Voyage" which includes an instrumental titled "Lament For Owen Roe O'Neil / Foggy Dew" by Neal Hellman & Friends? This particular track is not available on You Tube, but other versions of both those tunes are. Thing is, a major part of this is a tune I know as "The Smiling Little Lass," which, after many years of collecting and listening to music, I have heard only ONCE, in a songbook of my mom's. The other two tunes in the title are ENTIRELY different! If you sign in to one of these services which play music based on your likes (I heard it on Pandora), you might get to listen, but places that sell it give only a 30-second snip and the part that I know as "The Smiling Little Lass" doesn't come in till about 1:46. Just wondered if anyone knew this tune by any name and why it might have been identified under the titles of these other two tunes which are completely different (although the Lament has similarities.) I do have a PDF of the songbook page but I don't see any way to post it here.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST,Cori S.
Date: 28 Oct 14 - 06:32 PM

Okay, since the PDF format is useless, I scanned it as a jpeg and put it in a Facebook album and here it is. It just says "Irish Folk Tune." https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205270940638266&set=a.10204636364014247.1073741848.1389548514&type=3&theater

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Oct 14 - 09:55 AM

Hi, Cori. I played the tune you posted on Facebook, and I know I've heard it before. However, I found 'The Lament for Owen Roe O'Neill' at the site called The Session, and their version is nothing like it.

Here's what I think happened: I think Ethel Crowninshield wrote a poem called 'Smiling Little Lass', and somebody came along, read the poem, and said, "Hey, you could sing this to the old tune 'Such-and-such!'"

I'll make a MIDI of your tune so people can hear it, and perhaps a Mudcatter can identify it.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Oct 14 - 10:05 AM

I've sent the tune in. check back from time to time, because if Joe is away, it can take a while for a song to be posted.

At other times, it's virtually instantaneous.

---

Click to play (joeweb)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Oct 14 - 06:45 PM

MIDI posted. See link above. Sorry for the delay, Leeneia. I was hosting a rather wild party for some rather wild five-year-olds. Whew!
-Joe-

P.S. I see three examples of "Lament for Owen Roe O'Neill" on Spotify.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 14 - 10:30 PM

Thanks, you guys. The thing I noticed about the "Lament for Owen Roe O'Neil/O'Neill" is there is an author given with birth and death dates--in other words, it's a definite composition--it might be played in different styles or something, but should be the same tune--which isn't "my" tune. It would have been kind of cool if it was, because I am related to the O'Neils, I think, on my mother's side.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Oct 14 - 08:22 AM

Joe, can you take "Tune Req" off the name of this thread? It's misleading.

I think Cori wants information about the tune used for 'Smiling Little Lass.' She isn't requesting it, because clearly she already has it, witness the jpg.

Congratulations on the party for the five-year-olds. I bet it was fun.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 14 - 06:27 AM

Bumping this up for anyone who may not have seen it before.

Subject: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 05 May 24 - 07:18 PM

This is for the tune to a song to be performed at a memorial service later this month so I really hope you can help! The title (by a 20th Century author) is "The Smiling Little Lass." The tune is identified only as "Irish Folk Tune" (THAT narrows it down)! One of the people performing it wants piano accompaniment. I figure if I can identify the tune, maybe someone has written accompaniment and I can find a copy. The tune may be viewed at this link. Thanks for any help! https://archive.org/details/worldofmusicsong0000mabe/page/36/mode/2up

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune
From: Helen
Date: 05 May 24 - 07:56 PM

Hi Cori,

I played the tune and it sounds vaguely familiar.

I looked at the music page and the name Ethel Crowninshield is on the top left of the music.

The wiki article says that she wrote children's songs so it appears to have been attributed to her. There might be some of her books around with piano accompaniment notation.

I also found a previous Mudcat request from you which did not find an answer to your mystery tune:

Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)

However, there is a MIDI file link in that thread and listening to that, it reminds me of The Minstrel Boy

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Helen
Date: 05 May 24 - 08:31 PM

And again because of a new tune request:

RE: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune
From: Helen
Date: 05 May 24 - 08:37 PM

If it is The Minstrel Boy, the lyrics for that were composed by Sir Thomas Moore and set to a tune called The Moreen, according to a book I have.

Please tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree because it just reminds me of that tune.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 05 May 24 - 08:57 PM

To me "The Smiling Little Lass" and "The Minstrel Boy" (to the tune I know it by, there may be others) don't sound much alike. I assumed Ethel Crowninshield wrote the song to an existing folk tune and was trying to find if anyone had written piano accompaniment to it. Thanks for the responses.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 05 May 24 - 09:10 PM

Thanks for bumping this up. Yes, I am interested in the origin of the tune. I don't think Ethel Crowninshield wrote it or she'd have been credited.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 05 May 24 - 09:15 PM

This is now on YouTube. The first part of the tune is the same but the next part is different. Start around 1:46. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixa5G96DvB4

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune
From: Helen
Date: 05 May 24 - 09:18 PM

Thanks Cori. To me they sound a bit similar.

Someone here on Mudcat will know the answer, I'm sure.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Helen
Date: 05 May 24 - 09:26 PM

Thanks for the link to the video.

I think your answer might be in the question! :-D

The Foggy Dew - The Dubliners - a more raucous version than the lovely, lilting tune in the video you posted.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Helen
Date: 05 May 24 - 09:40 PM

This is a slower version: The Foggy Dew

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Helen
Date: 05 May 24 - 10:01 PM

I'm just going out, so if it is The Foggy Dew and you want to find the piano sheet music online, this is my trick:

On Google or similar, do a search for

The Foggy Dew piano sheet music

Then when the results come up, click on the Image tab and it will show pages from sheet music which is available online. Some of them are free, some are for sale. The advantage is that you can see which key the music is in and choose the one you want.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 05 May 24 - 11:50 PM

A lot of these tunes have some similarities, but I am familiar with "The Foggy Dew" and "The Minstrel Boy" and neither of them are the same tune as "The Smiling Little Lass."

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Helen
Date: 06 May 24 - 02:57 AM

Oh well! :-( Do I get some points for trying? :-D

As I said before, someone here will know the answer.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: GUEST,Cori
Date: 06 May 24 - 04:22 AM

Thanks for trying.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune
From: Lighter
Date: 07 May 24 - 02:22 PM

The tune is the first half of that known as "The Foggy Dew," collected by Edward Bunting from "J. McKnight, Esq." in Belfast in 1839.

This is different from the better-known "Foggy Dew" tune to which words have been set referring to the Easter Rising of 1916.

And different too from the various "Foggy, Foggy Dew" airs.

Bunting's tune also goes well as a march, though that seems to be a much later development.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune
From: Helen
Date: 07 May 24 - 02:27 PM

Thanks for clarifying that, Lighter.

On 05 May 24 - 07:56 PM I linked to another thread Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?) and I suggested The Foggy Dew but I didn't realise the Bunting version is different from the Easter Rising version.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune
From: GUEST,Richard
Date: 08 May 24 - 06:02 PM

It is the first part of "Captain Taylor's March" as played by Packie Byrne, which is the the same tune as the Bunting "Foggy Dew" However, the sleeve notes claim that Captain Taylor wrote it, as I recall, but I have mislaid my copy of the LP, so I can't check this.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Smiling Little Lass' Irish Tune
From: Helen
Date: 08 May 24 - 06:40 PM

The music in the book by
Bunting: The Foggy Dew

(Tune 109, page 219 but if you use the page slider it shows as page 220)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 May 24 - 12:13 AM

I combined the two "Smiling Lass" threads in an attempt to mitigate confusion, but I don't know if that will work.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Helen
Date: 09 May 24 - 01:00 AM

Thanks Joe. You're a treasure! :-)

We'll work it out, one way or another.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Helen
Date: 09 May 24 - 01:05 AM

BTW, I might have been a bit unclear. When I said the "book by Bunting" I meant that the book of tunes was compiled by him and not that the tune was by Bunting. The notation on the tune called The Foggy Dew says "Very Ancient, Author and date unknown".

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Lighter
Date: 09 May 24 - 09:44 AM

Since Bunting mentions McKnight as his only source, presumably McKnight (or Bunting's own intuition) is the only basis for the phrase "Very Ancient."

A likely interpretation is that McKnight learned the anonymous tune from someone of his father's or grandfather's generation - or from someone who had done similarly.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Smiling Little Lass (W. Owen Roe/Foggy?)
From: Lighter
Date: 12 May 24 - 08:40 PM

"Captain Taylor's March":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xRWLxHpm7U