BS: Dwindling BS section

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 01:14 AM

Oh, yeah.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Janie
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 10:38 PM

From: GUEST,Troubadour. - PM
Date: 30 Oct 14 - 08:05 PM



....Mods, as the OP, please terminate this here!

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 10:12 PM

Steve - nope, not persuaded.. still not gonna tell you my name...

but... my eyes are blue, and my hair was brown,
I live somewhere between Bude and Bristol
and I never have, or ever will, vote tory......

..and previous bands I played guitar in might just have attracted attention
from over enthusiastic jobsworth covert surveillance agencies
due to the singer's very public lefty political activisms..??

..if that helps you feel a little more at ease in my company....???

..oh, and I live dead opposite a flat full of B*P supporting skinheads
who no doubt have access to the internet,
and are probably far more sophisticated at tracking, monitoring,
and hunting down their 'enemies'
than many here might give their sort credit...????

A little over cautious paranoia goes a long way
in helping prevent parcels of burning dog shit being posted through one's front door...????

Not had any bricks put through the windows of this house yet though.. fingers crossed...

Last time, back in London, was quite traumatic
because the brick narrowly missed our brand new big telly.

I'm no way near as fit or fast as I used to be if it ever came to 'fight or flight'..

So I'll continue to err on the side of caution if you don't mind

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw iPadding but not quaking...
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 09:18 PM

No-one is safe? Well I could always be mown down by a London bus just by stepping outside. But I still wish to step outside. As long as you don't post idiotic stuff or succumb to a phisherman or tell us all your PIN number I reckon you're as safe here as anywhere else. Even if we all know your name. Which doesn't mean completely safe, of course. I suppose we could just live in a convent or a monastery. That could be quite safe, though some of these Mother and Father Superiors, you know...

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 08:47 PM

Guest/mg: "There are Members Of This Board that I would not give my name to and find to be pathological."

?? Most of us 'Cat posters remember your name and that would be doubly true for the members of the board, if by that you mean the Clones. Because nothing online is private, no one is safe. Might as well accept that.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,Steve, iPaddington unbearable
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 06:54 PM

Well Michael, I don't believe in the concept of contributory negligence. But you act like a twat and get death threats. I act like a twat and don't. Perhaps there's acting like a twat and acting like a twat. Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,Steve iPaderewski
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 06:45 PM

You heard Barry White, huh?

If Isla St Clair married Barry White, divorced him, then married Bryan Ferry, would she be Isla White-Ferry?

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,Steve and that confounded piece of Apple iSh
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 06:39 PM

I detect some gentle disagreement here, Musket, but c'est la vie innit. But just consider the advantages: Akenhateon must be seething because you and I are failing to act, ranks closed, in the quartet style he so loves to see. There's a good side to everything yeah!

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw, once more iPadded up
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 06:29 PM

Well Amos, your first paragraph happens to be the exact description of the Gaughan forum. And do you know why? Well, it's precisely because anonymity is not allowed! Do go and have a look. Actually, I'm pissing myself off somewhat here as that forum is, in many respects, not at all up my alley, and I don't want to keep sounding as though it's the be-all and end-all. But see past the usual quota of eejits, ne'er-do-wells and rampant Scotophiles (shit, that's me banned!) and you'll find a polite forum but one in which saintliness is not held to be a virtue. As I've been saying, over there you do know who you're talking to, though there's no feeling at all that you're somehow broadcasting your personal data to the whole planet. It's a complicated place replete with redundant and semi-redundant sub-forums but it works. And it works because you are, in the final resort, not anonymous, and because you must be signed up before you post. Simple really.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Musket
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 06:17 PM

You wouldn't know a cherry picked anything. You seem more fixated with bum picked issues.

Sorry, just picking up on an Akenaton post.

Eyup Steve. Knowing names or nicknames is still knowing. I have known a bloke called Loll since 1987. I was back in my old local the other week as my eldest still lives nearby and had a pint with him. Still have no idea what his real name is.

Anyway, back to the Halloween disco. I hear Barry White playing.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Amos
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 05:59 PM

THere was a time long ago when the dominant tone of the Cat was one of enevolent inclusion, fueled by the love of folk music but also protecting open dialogue both serious and whimsical on a world of other topics. When things got tense between opposing viewpoints it was routine for someone to inject a healthy dose of levity. The big difference was, that while people batted all kinds of ideas back and forth, they rarely resorted to the kind of ad hominem sarcasms which are prevalent in threads below the line today.

As Bill Day points out, it is a very different thing to dispute someone's logic or data, than it is to assault there personal character or inherent nature. Some of the more vitriolic posters here are so accustomed to insulting and being insulted that they probably think it is normal discussion.

It's not. It is essentially a form of prepubescent banter, resorting to the most primitive and unthinking of styles in order to defend some bizarre and distorted sense of personal rightness which has long since lost any real merit or need for defense.

I would challenge the respondents who frequent these hallowed halls to try an experiment--to post regularly on the Cat for a month without a single instance of insult or ad hominem slurs. It would be a most enlightening experiment if any of the usual suspects had the curiosity and spine to conduct it.

I am not aiming these remarks at any individuals, but at a practice of communication which has sadly darkened the atmosphere of a once-homey and friendly discussion site.

A.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 05:58 PM

Mark Twain's ranking of degrees of misinformation:

"There are lies, damned lies, and ... statistics!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 05:52 PM

[Gaughan]
I find many people in the folk world fairly opinionated in the final analysis, so it isn't that these threads can be combative that is the issue, but surprised they arent even more so. Performers tend to have strong personalities, even if they try to hide them.

Gaughan's forum isn't just Gaughan clones. There is a pretty wide range of opinion on it, but both dissimulation and abusiveness towards other members are verboten. It's not as active as it used to be but it's worked pretty well for nearly as long as Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 05:33 PM

You've been lucky, I think, Steve. I once, quite innocently, in a relevant newspaper correspondence, quoted Macaulay to the effect that the Puritan hatred of bear-baiting was not because it gave pain to the bear but because it gave pleasure to the spectators.

I came home to four [count them! 4!] death-threats on my answering-machine -- one from a guy claiming to speak for an organisation called "Animal Rights Extreme", who assured me I would be 'eliminated'. (But, would you believe?, the silly bugger forgot to leave his name!)

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,iPaddy Richter Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 05:13 PM

If Goofus's real identity were known to us all (he wouldn't bloody dare to reveal it for reasons we all understand but which will come out a bit different from him: I'm guessing that it will be "his professional career as a counsellor" - bwahahahaha!!), he wouldn't post the bollocks that he does. One tends to think that one might rest one' s case.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 04:42 PM

"Cherry picked statistics"????
WTF!.....Please explain that remark.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Ed T
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 04:15 PM

GFS, using "cherry picked" statistics (that you seem to confuse as "FACTS") to make an over-reaching conclusion against a group of people is hardly anything a logical (or considerate) person would (or, should) promote or applaud. If you are intentionally doing so, you do yourself a diservice.

I suspect you are " better than that", and just got carried away in one way or another. Hopefully, I misunderstand the intent of your last post.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 03:57 PM

let me be more clear then. There are Members Of This Board that I would not give my name to and find to be pathological. Likewise I am sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 03:48 PM

Well, here we are again....the wannabe 'political activists' when confronted with real facts, just go into a semi-literate name calling tirade against those who actually present facts.....the activists only have their 'pie in the sky' delusions, that they united with others of like-ilk, to call names trying to diminish those who present facts.

Akenaton has been repeatedly been praised for his patience with dealing with such antics, from the deluded dolts of political correctness...but factual fantasies.....dream on...you are NOT going to change FACTS with propaganda and talking points!.....nor will some of you abandon your hatred and bitterness that you get from getting NO traction(except from other like minded air-heads), in turning fiction into fact.
Sorry...it's not working.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 03:25 PM

Steve - equally...

If you know someone by name, do you really know them ?

do you know what evils they are truly capable of...???


quote - probably paraphrased from a Marvel comic...

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 03:11 PM

in this day and age on a public forum it is just not safe for people to give their true names, addresses etc. Maybe moreso for women but not necessarily.

Well I for one have not suggested that anyone should give out their address. As for safe, well I'm a sample of one, admittedly. I post controversially and provocatively at all times if I can. Without wishing to blow my own trumpet (I'd much rather someone else did that for me ;-) ), I'd guess, in all humility (honest), that I've accelerated the posting to this thread by about double. I've done it here and on a number of other forums for at least twelve years. You'd think that after all I've said about Israel that Mossad would be on to me by now. After all I've said about abortion and those wicked anti-abortionists you'd think I'd have had death threats (they are evil bastards after all). Actually, my phone was bugged in the 1980s when I was an active CND member! But my true name is Steve Shaw and I live near Bude and I would not go ex-directory even if you held a knife to my throat. No-one to date has threatened me or lobbed a brick through my window, and I say what I want to say. I like that. Yes there are nasty people around. But I never suggested that all our real names are flaunted for all to see. Just that they are in our profiles so that other MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD can see who they're talking to. Just like you do down the pub. Stop pretending that there's anything "social" about talking to people you know only as gnu, Sanity, Hawk, Ake, Teribus and so on. Yeah, even Jeri, Musket, achmelvich and punkfolkrocker. There you go. Saying what I think, hang it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Musket
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 01:50 PM

I once interviewed Dick Gaugan, about the time of his releasing his Different Kind of Love Song album, and asked if he felt his popularity and appeal as a musician would be wider if he were less political in his choice of songs.

The answer helps explain why I never got beyond hospital radio and although his answer wasn't broadcast, it was played at the Chrimbo party to my embarrassment.... What he didn't know as he lectured in his dressing room (Regal Arts Centre, Worksop) was that I was introducing him on stage and saying nice things about him in a few minutes... Years later, when he was appearing with Allan Taylor in Matlock Bath, I asked him about the night but he had forgotten it...

Interestingly, my own set thirty years ago was quite left wing political. Now, I don't think I sing anything, mine, traditional or others that could be classed as partisan political. Mainly lover's balls and best pint I ever had songs to be honest...

The point of that name dropping (he is a hero of mine musically) is that I find many people in the folk world fairly opinionated in the final analysis, so it isn't that these threads can be combative that is the issue, but surprised they arent even more so. Performers tend to have strong personalities, even if they try to hide them.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 01:31 PM

"If I knew your name I'd use it. As it is, I just don't take anything you say as being a communication from a real human being.

I don't expect to ever see you on Dick Gaughan's forum. I doubt we're missing anything."

So are the more pompous sanctimonious members of that forum
known affectionately as 'the dicks'...???

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 01:25 PM

I have repeatedly asked some people who know me offline not to reveal details of my person, and am routinely and, to my mind, extremely rudely, ignored. How dare they, is what comes to mind. Are there netiquette rules about that?

Behaviour - on the net or anywhere else - doesn't come any ruder than disputing with people and not giving your name. That's the attitude of people who stone people's windows in the dark.

If I knew your name I'd use it. As it is, I just don't take anything you say as being a communication from a real human being.

I don't expect to ever see you on Dick Gaughan's forum. I doubt we're missing anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 01:22 PM

Yes, exactly like the river Mersey. Or like mercy with a Z, if you prefer. And you can read that as "with a zee" or "with a zed" depending on where you're reading from.

Also shortened to Mrr, pronounced like Myrrh.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 01:17 PM

@ Mrrzy -- Your privilege of course to keep your ID confidential. But would it be a reasonable question to know how to pronounce your forum name? Is it like the river at Liverpool? Or...?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 01:13 PM

Halloween...

I've switched off all the lights in the front of the house and am now hiding at the back in the kitchen
having a quiet bit of cuddly saucy slap 'n' tickle with the mrs...

...we'll emerge around 8.00ish and then risk putting the telly and lights back on in the front room..

That's my true personality...

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Musket
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 01:06 PM

I'm keeping the personality that snaps knicker elastic at 40 paces for myself though if it's all the same to you Don.

The one that growls when I wake up is available to any bugger who wants it though.

Anyway. About to shower and change into my Halloween costume. That's another personality but reserved for tonight's party.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 12:56 PM

in this day and age on a public forum it is just not safe for people to give their true names, addresses etc. Maybe moreso for women but not necessarily.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 12:32 PM

I am firmly of the opinion that people with multiple personalities should share them with people who don't have any.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 12:28 PM

Reading this thread brings to mind an old admonition often given to school children:

Never hit back! You are the one who will be seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Musket
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 12:15 PM

Asking him not to post isn't such a bad idea if his posts cause distress and upset when he lies in order to villify people whose only crime is existing.

Whilst ever he posts hate, it shall be challenged. It isn't difficult to understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 12:13 PM

Friday Oct 31, 2014. Wall Street Journal"


Brian Gaar …

I'd never interact with a stranger in person but give that stranger a computer and I'll ignore my family on Christmas to fight with him

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 12:11 PM

I use my nickname on the forum, but also a lot in real life. I have repeatedly asked some people who know me offline not to reveal details of my person, and am routinely and, to my mind, extremely rudely, ignored. How dare they, is what comes to mind. Are there netiquette rules about that?

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 12:03 PM

Perhaps third time is the charm, this post isn't sticking.

You asked me to stop posting and I acceded to your request, by my views are firmly held and will be advanced when this forum is moderated as it should be.

Ake, no one asked you not to post. I suggested not responding to the attacks so they could be removed. Any attacks are generally removed quietly across the forum if it's possible to do so without chopping up the discussion, but if everyone piles on and responds, then removal is impossible.

"Moderated as it should be" - now there is a can of worms. If people would stop leading with their chins and picking the scabs off of wounds that can not be healed in this environment, the job would be a lot easier. You're speculating about moderation motives, and you're all fighting to get the last word. You know how that is going to turn out.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Ed T
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 11:57 AM

WTF?:
why we often say WTF 

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Musket
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 11:18 AM

Bridge is a wonderful wind up merchant himself. Considering Musket Ian is an ex miner who still has one bottle of champagne left. (Drank one when the bitch finally died and the other cheap plonk is waiting for Scargill to die.) I notice what's left of The NUM are chasing him through the courts again and trying to bankrupt him. Couldn't have happened to a better Trot.

Tell you what. I wish I were two bob behind a solicitor like Bridge... I've never been a Tory for that matter either. 😜

Naw, I swapped Socialism for champagne. Different thing entirely. True, I did believe in the New Labour philosophy when Kinnock set out to make them electable and to this day, I contend that the best way to deliver a social programme is to afford it in the first place. The Blair idea of bypassing and ignoring Parliament and disastrous decisions about The Middle East preclude calling me a Blairite though. (A photo of me shaking hands with him is no longer on display in the study. No ideological reason, just needed the space for photos of my Granddaughter.

If my take on life puts me at odds with a solicitor who carries a cross for those he has sympathy rather than empathy with, I'm cool and happy 😎

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 10:54 AM

'wid some power the gift tae gie us - to see oorselves as ithers see us' - this is a (badly remembered) quote frae rabbie burns - i think.
however - no-one else needs to see this unless they really want to - and for now i don't think i can be bothered . good try to try to talk about this dwindling section but it turns out to be a great example of the problem and with no sign of a solution in sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 10:45 AM

I have met the Starry one. I do find his god-bothering (I don't think I've ever heard him sing a song about anything else) very hard to take.

Mither is fairly reasonable until he turns back into a Blairite or worse - a supporter of Thatcher's war on miners and unions.   His accusations that I am a champagne socialist are pretty stupid when you watch him brag about his wealth and pretend to have some left-leaning.

I use my own name. And the only problems have been with that which we do not discuss. I suppose they get corns on their knuckles from dragging them along the ground (while hiding behind internet anonymity).

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 10:29 AM

Ake,

You may take comfort in the false notion that the antipathy your anti-homosexual discourse inspires here is ideological but mine is just a visceral reaction to your inhumane intolerance.

And please don't cite any more of your statistics to me regarding a minor health problem that you use to make your bigotry seem reasonable. It's not.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 10:19 AM

'Misrepresentation' is not a tactic I knowingly indulge in...

How 'you' intended to express something, may not be how it ended up appearing to others...

'Innocent' statements are all too often miscommunicated and misconstrued;
leading to all sorts of daft arguements blowing up out of all proportions here in BS ..


"We all need to look at ourselves in full length mirrors from time to time... to see ourselves as others see us"

.. quoted, vaguely paraphrased from some or other well respected dopey old hippy philosopher
whose name I'm buggered if I can remember..

errmm.. or maybe it was from the "Kung Fu" TV series...

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 10:06 AM

"There is a huge difference between suggesting... or even stating clearly... that a position is narrow, illogical, counter to facts, subjective...etc.... and labeling the person as a bigoted, hate-filled asshole!"

Yes Bill, nice post, but I take slight issue with the point you make.
When you state that, " a position is narrow, illogical, counter to facts, subjective...etc"   It is important that you can back up that statement with a reasoned argument
The quads and other "liberal" ideologues avoid reason like the plague, simply relying on the hope that some of the mud which they fling sticks.
As I often say universal equality is a faith position.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 10:00 AM

Let's just agree then that in not one of my posts to this thread have I bullishly insisted or demanded anything! Misrepresentation is as cardinal a sin as calling someone a nasty name, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Musket
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 09:58 AM

The starry one is a ruddy southerner..

One Mudcatter calls me Musket on the threads and Ian in the pub. (It's me typing now..) Another Musket called me Musket at a dinner party the other week, although I called him Musket too. Another person present assumed it was Masonic..

Come to think of it, that would be a better explanation than to say there is a wonderful folk music website that has a pseuds corner called BS where you can wind up weirdos and watch them bite.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 09:54 AM

Going off on one ????

do you not sense the the cool calm serene relaxed tone of how I express myself here...???

..no high horses in my house...
I'm fairly ok at maintaining a reasonably moderate temperature under my collar...

At this stage in my life, I've really got to be very careful with my blood pressure....

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 09:50 AM

God, I feel confused. It's you from Cockermouth, not him (yeah, I know, no shit Sherlock). Anyway, it isn't you!

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 09:46 AM

Pete the wacko creationist is the pete I was on about. I didn't know he was from Cockermouth. One or the other I should think. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 09:42 AM

I tend to be instinctively wary of the motives of those
who bullishly insist on demanding to know
other forum member's true identities....

You're misrepresenting me. For the third or fourth time (I forget), I know the rule and I work with it. I'm not demanding or insisting on anything. I'm suggesting something and I'm backing up my suggestion with argument. No need to go off on one just because you disagree. And why should you be so wary? Do the other guys in your band know your real name? Do you reckon that the other guys in U2 call yer man The Edge (or, if they're being familiar, just "The")? Do you sit around in the pub with a bunch of guys who you know by nicknames only? Blimey, that's what would make ME wary! And I didn't necessarily suggest even that nicknames should be disallowed. Just that your real name is in your profile for other members to see. Not the whole world, note. This thread is about making this a nicer place, sort of. Anonymity, one hundred percent, helps to make it nastier. That's just human nature at work. You see it all over the internet. Well, that and allowing unsigned people to post. That's just daft, is that.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 09:36 AM

steve - i don't think i am the pete (i'm from cockermouth)you are on about here but if i am i apologise. but is this another long-running squabble that i was too bored to notice or keep up with. whatever -thanks for the recommendation - i'm off to give the dick gaughan forum an explore.

Subject: RE: BS: Dwindling BS section
From: Musket
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 09:32 AM

I know. Nobody cares about sections of society that they are not part of. Always someone else's problem.

No matter, Akenaton has a solution. Silence is his approval.

I don't try to reason with bigotry, I just wait for it to wither and die. In the meantime, confront it.

You know,,

Like those folk singers you all fucking revere...