BS: The Homeless

Subject: BS: The Homeless
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 05:35 AM

""The number of homeless children in the US has surged in recent years to an all-time high, amounting to one child out of every 30, according to a comprehensive state-by-state report.

The report, issued on Monday by the National Center on Family Homelessness [NCFH], says that nearly 2.5 million American children were homeless at some point in 2013."" 

Child homelessness surges in the US 

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Musket
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 06:19 AM

I read that some of your towns and cities have made it illegal to give them food or money?

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 06:55 AM

I believe both the USA and Canadian Constitutions protect those who panhandle.

My understanding is most municipal laws, where they exist, prohibit agressive panhandling, such activities that present a safety hazard (including for vehicular traffic) and captive audience solicitation. However, many municipal units and police forces tend to push their anti-panhandling legislation and enforcement as far as they can.

Fortunately, in a few areas there are unique initiatives to deal with the poverty and social issues behind most panhandling.

In Canada 

Panhandling in the USA 

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 07:02 AM

Curious:
Do you give money to panhandlers?

Are you fearful or bothered by panhandling?

What form if panhandling is acceptable to you, if any?

Have you ever panhandled?

Is playing music in public areas, or is busking for donations panhandling?

What percentage of panhandlers in your area seem to be homeless, do it for booze or drugs, or have social or mental problems?

Is student panhandling more acceptable?

Are there areas or situations where panhandling seems less acceptable to you?

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 08:21 AM

The only time I ever was to be found asking strangers for money was as a volunteer for Oxfam duing the Biafra crisis, long before professional fundraising tainted such activities with chugging. Nowadays, it would seem you have to be Saint Bob to get past that one. We would always sum up a customer asking how much for some second-hand clothing: are they really needy (in which case they'd get it for just enough to allow them to keep their self-respect) or were they acting down to add to their wealth - in which case they'd get it for less than they'd pay from Marks, but enough more than a fair price to compensate for the charity to the poor. Everyone ended up happy, and Oxfam got a good whack.

I think there are two levels of panhandling. If you're truly needy (and by that, I include the hour of day: if you're fit to work and it's 9am, then go and find a job, but if you're not, it's below 10C and wet, then I'll help you find shelter) then I'll help. I spent enough nights in the wet when in the infantry to know the difference. I'm fairly canny on the scams, the kid who's been drugged to be out of it, but is chubby and so not starved, the busker who's doing better than his day job. Heck, there's a professional harpist in Brittany who started that way, I showed her basic hand position, she rented a harp, couldn't practice in the flat because of housemates so took it onto the front doorstep to practice. End of half an hour's concentration and she's learned her first tune, and better still, had more money in front of her than she'd earned that day temping. By the end of the week she'd turned pro, with a repertoire of five tunes, and spent the next year busking. Then she went to a summer festival and started winning things. Elena, of Seddrenn.
Similarly, there was a musette squeezebox player in Brussels, always used to accept from the Sisters of the Convent. Until one of them was late, saw him leaving in a top-of-range beamer. Busking can pay well.

However, what drives me crazy is the failure of the public authorities to take their responsibilities properly. I've said it about the NHS failure to support the miliary and the RBL letting them off the hook, and the same applies here. There's now a problem that the outreach may not be credible from the Auythorities themselves, but then tbhey must help what does work to solve the problem.

Of course, that's in the UK, in the US your political bipolar system has its own elephantine peculiarities. The only way to eat an elephant is to prepare a plan, begin at the beginning, and stick with it. Of course, donkeys don't. The alternative is to fuck the thing, which requires a tolerance for an excessive amount of trumpetting, and the patience to wait an unconscionable amount of time to see if anything produces. Of course, most American elephants are male, but the philosophy may still be worth trying, if only to teach them to get out of the way.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 08:41 AM

I recall in one city the business community set up an alternative system to gather "spare change" from pedestrians, which was later distributed in a meaningful way to needy street people. They also approached and hired willing panhandlers to clean debris from the streets-all paid for by the street business community.

Seeing a young guy panhandling on a cold rainy day, a friend of mine once observed- " if you approached that young guy and asked him to work for wages, standing there for hours in the cold rain, he would likely turn you down".

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 10:07 AM

Many of the homeless are women and children fleeing an abusive man. Ask your local shelter for statistics local to you.

A music teacher I know is fostering a gifted student whose mother is mentally ill. He spent his senior year of high school living with friends, families, each family a few weeks at a time. Now he's graduated, 17 and all alone, into a bad economy. What will happen to him?

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 12:51 PM

if he is in us he should go to his nearest community college and explain his situation to the admissions officer, who will refer him to financial aid. if both are on the ball they can help him earn a trade which should guarantee a job at the end and int he meantime he should qualify for work study. housing is a problem. too bad there are not dormitories for people in this situation...

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 01:10 PM

What is "panhandling"? Does it mean something in American?

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 02:16 PM

Time to whip out the faithful olde google searcher, Richard Bridge. We do it all the time when informal lingo comes up from "the other side" of the salt-marsh (aka, the much over-used informal term, "pond").

BTW, not all English terms (formal, or otherwise) used in North America are exclusively Americano-lingo (get the drift?)
;)

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 04:31 PM

In Juneau, Alaska, a smallish town (30000+), aggressive panhandling is illegal and will garner police attention. A casual "Any spare change, missus?" is not and I do give. I don't really care if the person will use it for a bottle or cigarettes because until he/she is ready to quit, they may as well have the comforts that sustain them.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 05:41 PM

I always thought it had something to do with Texans, never imagined it referred to beggars?

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Bert
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 11:39 PM

Saw this guy outside of a liquor store. He said "I'll be honest I just need a dollar to buy a beer" I gave him a dollar, but I'll bet the sod was lying and he had five hungry kids at home.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Bert
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 11:56 PM

What really pisses me off are those sanctimonious gits who say "Don't give them anything, they'll only spend it on booze".

Jesus (and he'd be on my side here)! Is there anyone who needs a drink more than some person down on their luck.

So, if I can afford it, and sometimes even when I can't, I try to chip in a dollar or even some loose change if that is all that I have. And if they buy a bottle and have a little consolation, then good luck to them.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 12:05 AM

I always tell panhandlers to busk instead. I'll give money to a street performer, not to a bum. They could sing or dance or tell a story or anything at all - I saw a young man just reading from a book, not even a religious book, just literature. Why should anybody just ask for money? I mean, really. Do something for yourself before you ask me to do something for you. Phil Ochs had a song about that...

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 12:05 AM

And then they can spend the money on whatever they want, they've EARNED it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Bert
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 01:12 AM

You're probably, no not probably, you ARE right Mrrzy, but when I see someone begging, I ask my self 'How bloody desperate would I have to be before I did that'. And then I respond the best I can.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 02:29 AM

I have a hard time refusing a panhandler, but I dunno what's the right thing to do. The local police chief says most people who panhandle come here from out of town, and they're not "our" homeless people. And from what I hear from the local homeless community, that's the truth. The police chief got the volunteer organizations in town to support his anti-panhandling campaign. The head of the local homeless shelter says she can make our money go a lot farther than it will go if we give it to panhandlers.
But still, I don't like turning them down.

A couple of times in the last two weeks, people have come up to me and asked to use my phone. I let them, but then it seemed they talked forever while I waited to get my phone back. I may not do that again.


-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Bert
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 03:14 AM

...the head of the local homeless shelter says she can make our money go a lot farther...

That is because if you give it to her, she gets her cut.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 01:21 PM

If the Tories, with or without UKIP, heaven forbid, win the next general election, I am sure we will not be far behind.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 01:51 PM

one thing you can do is take a few sandwiches, fruit, whatever, dollar mcdonald's burgers and give them food instead, or clean socks, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 08:16 AM

I would agree with mg - offer to buy them a sandwich or a hot drink. I run a needlecraft group at our local women's shelter so do have a little understanding of the problems and the reasons for homelessness but do agree that resources can probably be better used by the shelters for the greater number of people.

There are those who are takers and who will milk the system for everything they can get, even if they are capable of managing for themselves and they do take resources that could be used for the truly destitute, and that includes pan-handling.

I will not give money to a beggar on the street - I put what cash I can into the shelters and, Bert, those working in that environment do not get their 'cut'. They work long hours in difficult situations, for little reward, on the whole. I spend two hours a week in the best shelter in Portland and would not want to work there full time whatever I was paid.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 01:37 PM

Trouble is that everyone wants me to give them some of my money these days: beggars, 'chuggers'* and endless cold callers - some representing charities. The thing is, I already give to two charities and I can't be responsible for all of the world's ills - otherwise I will end up needing to ask for charity myself!

Actually, the two charities that I donate to are environmental ones - because if we don't look after the environment there won't be any beggars or chuggers or charities or cold callers!

*'chuggers' = 'charity muggers' = young people who are paid to stop you in the street and ask you to sign up for the charity that they are being paid (probably a pittance) to represent.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 11:44 AM

In the US it's easy to beg and not shameful to be lazy, so I doubt that very many of the able-bodied overweight bums I see are desperate at all, Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 01:15 PM

"able-bodied overweight bums" A great many of these overweight people are not able bodied at all, Mrrzy. I can tell you of three, right off the bat, who have heart conditions. And diabetes. We have an epidemic of diabetes in the homeless community.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Bert
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 04:47 PM

...those working in that environment do not get their 'cut'....

Those at the bottom don't, but all major charities have paid executives. I never give to them.

If I give a dollar to a bum I know that he is getting a dollar. If I give a dollar to United Way, I know that the bum outside my supermarket will get nothing of that dollar.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Apr 24 - 09:58 PM

Refreshing because of the US Supreme Court, and a town in Oregon. Too many sources for me to pick a blicky for you. What do you think?

I think you have a right to be poor. I think you have a right to be homeless. That is to say, neither of those should be crimes. However, being homeless, I think, does *not* confer the right to create a home on public property.

That is to say, I don't think the homeless have the right to erect tent, and camp, on public spaces.

But I am interested in others' takes.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 09:39 AM

Houston has a method that has reduced homelessness by over 60%
That is proof positive that their approach is better than most.
https://www.governing.com/housing/how-houston-cut-its-homeless-population-by-nearly-two-thirds

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: meself
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 11:01 AM

Couple points. One: I'm appalled to see on a folk music forum, anyone equating panhandling and busking. And what on earth is wrong with a busker making good money at it? Two: my psychiatrist sister once said, "When other people say, 'Why is that able-bodied young man on the street panhandling?', I say, 'Oh, look - it's Bill! He managed to get himself dressed and out the door today - that's progress!'"

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 12:18 PM

Busking is most definitely work -- and hard work, at that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 01:04 PM

Who said all buskers are homeless?

Right now mortgage rates are at a 50 year high and home prices are higher than ever. The 2008 mortgage crisis is now replaced by wealth conglomerates buying up the remaining housing to hike prices.
There is no limit to what you can do when you own Congress.

This happens when average people say they don't discuss religion or politics or by people who think billionaires are on their side.
Scapegoatism does the rest of this magic trick of homelessness along with disease-causing processed food.

The 60's ended sadly but today protests are now about death to Isreal or anti-immigration. My apologies to the protests that are most reasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: meself
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 04:17 PM

"Who said all buskers are homeless?" - I don't know - did someone say that?

Subject: RE: BS: The Homeless
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 07:41 PM

Back to the homeless...