BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?

Subject: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Dec 14 - 05:00 PM

I recognize that what is given here is merely Cheney's opinion, not his actions themselves. However, it is a good place to start. I cannot fathom why that whole administration is not legally culpable. Not only have they tortured, maimed and killed individuals but they have irredeemably harmed their own nation. Why are they not tried in a court of law? Why?

Meet the Press Transcript - December 14, 2014

CHUCK TODD: Let me go to Gul Rahman. He was chained to the wall of his cell, doused with water, froze to death in C.I.A. custody. And it turned out it was a case of mistaken identity.

DICK CHENEY: --right. But the problem I had is with the folks that we did release that end up back on the battlefield. [...] I'm more concerned with bad guys who got out and released than I am with a few that, in fact, were innocent.

CHUCK TODD: 25% of the detainees though, 25% turned out to be innocent. They were released.

DICK CHENEY: Where are you going to draw the line, Chuck? How are-- [...]

CHUCK TODD: Is that too high? You're okay with that margin for error?

DICK CHENEY: I have no problem as long as we achieve our objective.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Dec 14 - 06:27 PM

To Cheney the end will always justify means. And - just because he wanted it done is enough for him. He'll never go to trial. Too much plausible deniability. Too many buffers between him and the action. And someone lower down would be willing to fall on their sword for the "good of the country". That's just the way it is....

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Deckman
Date: 21 Dec 14 - 06:39 PM

When we look at Cheney, and those like him ... we have to face ourselves. Aren't we a grand bunch! bob(deckman)nelson

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 14 - 07:03 PM

USA! USA!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Acorn4
Date: 21 Dec 14 - 07:25 PM

Then there is our own darling Tony Blair who has been throwing his toys out of the pram over being accused of goings on with Rupert Murdoch's missus but is apparently unmoved by the millions of innocent dead on his conscience.

Should be in the dock as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 01:10 AM

Did you ever wonder why no one was prosecuted in the Iran-Contra affair?

Cheney, despicable swine and war criminal that he is, won't be tried because he's already been pardoned, by GWB, who in turn was pardoned by Obama. It's really a naive question, Ebbie.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 02:07 AM

Cheney was acting on the authority of the president, who is above the law. We were shocked and disgusted when Nixon said that "if the president does it then it's not illegal," but he was accurately describing how the US government operates.

And Cheney's actions were not unusual. Every US administration that I've studied has committed numerous war crimes. None would have stood a chance at Nuremburg. But you can't put leaders on trial unless you defeat them militarily and take over their government.

Defeating them in elections doesn't count because the two major parties agree on imperial policy. They take opposing positions on health care, gay marriage, and abortion, so that the voters will be able to choose between blue and red, but they all agree that their primary responsibility is to project US power around the world by any means necessary.

Americans only object to war crimes committed by members of the other party. They turn a blind eye to the war crimes committed by members of their own party, often defending them and denying that any war crimes were committed.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Musket
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 03:22 AM

USA is not a signatory to The War Crimes court in The Hague. That doesn't stop a prosecutor asking for his indictment.

USA will not extradite to war crimes courts. That said, it would at least curtail his freedom to leave USA territory which to a very rich man is in itself a form of house arrest.

I mention this because on BBC Radio this morning, the scenario was mooted.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 07:00 AM

It's not like we didn't try.

The article is from March, 2012.

Personally, I wish the piece of shit had croaked on the operating table.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 07:27 AM

However, take heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 08:33 AM

From 2009, interesting background on techniques and responsibility 

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 09:30 AM

Most people support fair legal systems, knowing that the fact that the guilty sometimes escape is better than risking one innocent person being convicted. People like Cheney believe the opposite, yet people vote for them.

Sigh.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 11:25 AM

I think the overriding reason that big political leaders are seldom tried for serious crimes is that, because they have good lawyers, the trial would take forever, cost a huge amount, tie up the court, and clog the news until nothing else would get done.... not to mention the many embarrassing questions that would be asked.

Since he is out of office and can't be impeached, it would have to be in a civilian court and the question of jurisdiction would be awkward. And can you imagine picking a jury?

Even the O.J. Simpson trial became a circus....

Now, if they want to try Alberto Gonzales, Jay S. Bybee, and John Yoo for providing the legal memos authorizing torture...

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 11:36 AM

see here for long explanation of the memos

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 04:48 PM

michaelr, 1:10 am, I take umbrage at your statement(s). #1: Obama did NOT pardon GWB. Secondly, I do not like your aggressively dismissive opinion that "it is a naive question."

Naive or not, it is a serious question that has answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 07:08 PM

The winds may be changing.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 07:43 PM

There's nothing aggressive about my comment, Ebbie. Sorry you didn't like it.

The president of the American Civil Liberties Union has called the DoJ's failure to indict the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld gang "essentially granting tacit pardons for torture." He goes on to say "The spectacle of the president's granting pardons to torturers still makes my stomach turn. But doing so may be the only way to ensure that the American government never tortures again. Pardons would make clear that crimes were committed; that the individuals who authorized and committed torture were indeed criminals; and that future architects and perpetrators of torture should beware. Prosecutions would be preferable, but pardons may be the only viable and lasting way to close the Pandora's box of torture once and for all."

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 09:40 PM

I respect the ACLU but "essentially" and "tacit" make his assertion an opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 09:49 PM

I'm glad to hear of new calls for Cheney and others to be charged, but I still wonder who would have jurisdiction... and I still doubt it will happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 10:49 PM

I doubt it too but it would be refreshing to have the current administration publicly recognize that Cheney, et al, need to stay within USA borders because some governments consider them war criminals. At the very least I would like the previous administration's personnel to be objects of derision.

Subject: RE: BS: Why is Cheney not tried as War Criminal?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 22 Dec 14 - 11:42 PM

The answer to your question, Ebbie, and I think you must know it already, is linked to that old riddle, "What does an 800 lb gorilla do with the Geneva Conventions?"