Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club

Subject: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Northerner
Date: 01 May 15 - 10:48 AM

On Monday night I set off for the Sun Inn, home of Stockton Folk Club. I am no longer a car driver but use local bus services.   I was carrying my handbag (but only enough money for my evening out) and a shopping bag with the words of my latest poem in it and also a small djembe for use in the knurdle at the start of the evening. I am a poet, storyteller and singer. Sometimes I also carry a ukulele and music stand. I got off my bus in Stockton High Street and was about to cross the road when a woman came up to me. "I want your bag," she said. Before I knew what was happening she had punched me in the face. She punched me several times. Staff at nearby COSTA heard my screams and cries for help. They rushed out and chased this woman away and one of the COSTA staff ran after my attacker down a nearby street. Police caught the woman and she has been arrested and charged. The police have done everything correctly. I had my injuries checked, including an X-ray of face but luckily have only cuts and bruises, that are already starting to heal.
People have been very supportive - singers, poets, storytellers and friends. Injuries are healing and I am in good spirits. Didn't get to Stockton Folk Club on Monday but did make it to the Welly last night.
My post is not for sympathy. I am not the only person who uses a bus to get to folk clubs. I do get lifts but not always. Post is to ask for people to share tips on how we stay safe while we enjoy folk music. Thank you.
Diane

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 15 - 10:56 AM

Learn a martial art. See if someone near you teaches wing chun or street self-defense. Other than that, I see no other way given the circumstances.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Northerner
Date: 01 May 15 - 11:01 AM

Well, it's one option, thank you.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 15 - 11:24 AM

It doesn't take years to become adept enough to deal with the perpetrator of your experience. Wing chun will take six months, and many other street-proofing techniques, mostly simple but effective methods of convincing someone quickly that you are not an easy target, can take as little as three months. You do not have to be built like Schwarzenegger or particularly 'young'. (Wing chun was invented by a woman who weighted somewhere near eight stone, if that.)

Others may have better ideas. Good luck to you.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 15 - 11:32 AM

Carry a sword and a hefty stick,
if the police stop and search you tell 'em you're a morris dancer.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 15 - 11:53 AM

I am sorry to hear of your experience Diane.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 01 May 15 - 01:15 PM

Sorry, and sad that it happened.

When I was researching for a violence prevention program we got interviews from incarcerated attackers who explained how they selected their targets. It's important for you to know that before you were attacked, and before you even saw your assailant, she saw you, and decided that you were an easy target.

Not to be critical, but when you stepped off the bus, you were thinking about all the things that you were carrying, and not about the environment that you were stepping into. And your hands were full, which meant that you could neither defend yourself nor get away quickly.

The key is to plan ahead-know where you will be safe, know where you will be exposed, and develop strategies for moving quickly through the places you are vulnerable.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: BillOC
Date: 01 May 15 - 01:24 PM

I use a cane occasionally, and was taught some defensive moves using the cane. Carry your music stand. If attacked, a quick thrust to the gut will take away the attacker's breath and enthusiasm.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 May 15 - 01:27 PM

Can you arrange to travel in the company of others to and from the club? The old adage is true, "There's safety in numbers".

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 May 15 - 02:51 PM

Only advice I could give is to NOT look like a victim , though I am not sure how to do that ! I have walked , on my own (Contra Queens Regs) in down town Aden and never even been close to a grenade attack
Also walked through Harlem at midnight in the mid seventies without incident . I seem to naturally NOT look like a victim though I am NOT a Big Bloke , so I will just offer commisserations

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 01 May 15 - 02:52 PM

Hi

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience.

I don't have any advice other than perhaps not carry a handbag that is obvious to see.

As an amateur photographer I go out walking sometimes in remote spots. These days I no longer carry my large expensive camera & equipment. I use an excellent small camera that can be easily carried in a pocket. Also I now don't carry my wallet with all my cash and credit cards etc when out walking alone.. I just take a small amount.

Sad times we live in,

Regards
MikeL2

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 May 15 - 03:00 PM

Re looking like a victim, I had a visceral experience from the other side. I am still somewhat mortified.

I was standing on a overpass walkway when I saw a woman approaching me on the sidewalk below. She was 50ish, walking slowly, defeatedly, apparently oblivious to her surroundings.

She looked like a victim and for an instant I wanted to shake her or swear at her or tell her - loudly - to go home.

I didn't do any of those things. Without comment I let her pass below me. But I've never forgotten my reaction.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 15 - 04:10 PM

I am sorry to read of this, Diane. Don't let the b******s like that get you down. Take care
Charlie.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 01 May 15 - 04:35 PM

Part of it is making sure that you look like you belong wherever you are-another part is to walk and move like you know where you're going and what you are doing-uncertainty and being out of place are signs that you are vulnerable.

Another trick is to make yourself look unattractive, unkempt, or even vaguely hostile so that people avoid you. The kids do this with their tattoos, colored hair, piercings, and industrial goth clothing, and it works (sometimes too well).

The suggestion to travel with company is probably the best, and simplest advice. Along with that, don't carry so much--no more than you can fit in a backpack, on your back so your arms and hands are free.

And good luck with the backpack--many of the people I see on the Metro have a backpack/briefcase/courier bag *and* a tote bag, and more than a few are "Ba-Ba Black Sheep", because they've got three bags full.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 15 - 04:56 PM

Sorry to hear of your attack. Hope you are recovering.
A shoulder bag crossways over the body leaves the hands free to carry an umbrella .A swift tap with the umbrella over the wrists of an attacker if the stomach is too far away is quite a good deterrent as is a very loud noise think New Zealand hakka.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Penny S.
Date: 01 May 15 - 05:02 PM

A cross body bag big enough for what you were carrying in the shopping bag might be better than a back pack for sitting on the bus. I've got one that sits under my arm, and might even hold a ukelele!

And get an alarm - your local police should be able to advise you.

A friend of mine carrying nothing but some posters and drawing pins was jumped in Dulwich*, and I don't think he looks like a victim.


Penny


*Probably West Norwood, actually. But Dulwich sounds funnier.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Musket
Date: 02 May 15 - 04:02 AM

Awful to read of this. Interestingly, a mate and I went to a folk club the other night and whilst we don't go to it often, most there know us, so we weren't strangers.

We gave a lift home to a couple of ladies who would have walked (in different directions) had we not offered a lift. We said it isn't nice walking through the town centre at night alone for them.

Brings it home to us, reading this.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 02 May 15 - 04:38 AM

Stockton High Street ain't downtown LA.

I doubt Diane needs to do anything to be more safe.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 May 15 - 04:45 AM

Sorry to hear about this. I've little advice that would be helpful in your particular case apart from what others have already said, particularly about not carrying too much and perhaps not carrying things that look as if they're expensive or easy to steal/sell on.

As far as being aware is concerned: I went to Teignmouth Folk Club not long ago and parked about 100m away down the street. (Teignmouth is hardly a hotbed of anarchy and crime.) As I left at about 23.00, I went to my car and put my guitar on the back seat, noticing two men walking down the street in my direction. I'd just got in the car and shut the door when I saw in the mirror that they were veering across the road towards my car. They didn't look particularly drunk or threatening but neither did they look as if they were lost or looking for directions. I hit the central locking mechanism just as one came up and tried to open the rear door. Our eyes met in the mirror where I'd been watching him and he just shrugged, then they both walked on their way. I still don't know what they wanted; to ask for a lift (why not come to he driver's window?), to try to take my guitar (?): whatever I'm glad I was aware of their presence and quick enough with the door lock. It's always worth being aware of what's going on round you.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 15 - 05:25 AM

With a car always set the anti-hijack locking (one click for drivers door only, two for the rest), the facility is probably there but may not be the default, check the handbook.

If there are dodgy people around lock the car after putting things in the back and then unlock the drivers door only. Never drive with the doors unlocked.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Sedayne)
Date: 02 May 15 - 05:52 AM

So sorry to hear this. Good to see you're still going out, which can be hardest part after a trauma of this nature, which can cut pretty deep. Hope things are okay.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 02 May 15 - 10:23 AM

A defence weapon used by ladies in bygone days was a hat pin.
A jab from that apparently gave would be muggers second thoughts.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 May 15 - 11:10 AM

just one more part of the wonderful Thatcher legacy. before she disembowelled the manufacturing industry of the country, these people had jobs and were too busy saving up to pay their mortgages and buy fitted carpets. now they have drug problems live no one cares where on the edges of our society.

Remember that when you vote for Cameron. Apparently he has plans for 15 million pound centre celebrating the great lady'd life and achievements.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Northerner
Date: 02 May 15 - 11:17 AM

Thank you all. I will look through all your ideas. I am considering going to my local sewing person (I get all my trousers shortened) to see if she can make me an inside pocket for my jacket/s. My bruises are fading and I am in good spirits.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Rumncoke
Date: 02 May 15 - 04:35 PM

The only time I really needed it, my karate training came in very handy. I did slightly damage a finger as the attack was sudden, and in broad daylight just off a busy high street.

I didn't hurt the young man - except dented his pride and his standing with his little gang, I hope.

We do need to be cautious, as not every encounter ends well and knives are far more common these days.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Sedayne)
Date: 03 May 15 - 04:57 AM

Not sure if revenge, retribution, retaliation or Tabloid Tales of Horror is the way to go here. Hatpins? Swords? Good grief! Fact is, most of us (and I'm sure Diane too until this unfortunate incident) can happily go through life without meeting violence / violent crime in any shape or form outside of dramas on TV - or the endless sensationalism in the papers - much less the murky savage realms of The Brothers Grimm - or the bloodier realms of Traditional Folksong & Ballad if it comes to that. It is, in any case, EXCEPTIONAL and people are, for the most part, GOOD.

The important thing here is that one is open enough to more effective channels of personal healing & empowerment than feeling it necessary to tool oneself up or else let one terrible incident define ones life thereafter.

This seems like a good place to start : GOV.UK : Get support as a victim of crime

Hope you can bounce back triumphant, Diane - with your essential self-respect, dignity & humanity in tact, and with no need of weapons to feel safe on familiar streets. Sadly, shit happens; happily, this is often just the beginning of a STORY which will lead to a Happy Ever After.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 May 15 - 07:25 AM

Of course, Al. Everyone knows that Maggie invented crime, and there were no such things as theft or mugging until six weeks into her first term in office!

Best regards

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 May 15 - 08:24 AM

You had to be in the North to see the scale of the disaster, Mike.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 May 15 - 09:03 AM

MGM·Lion - an objective and relatively unbiased sociologist might look at the rapid increase in heroin use
and crimes of theft, muggings, etc under thatcher in the early 1980s;
and correlate this with mass redundancies, restrictions on youth housing benefits,
and the emerging tory espoused & encouraged yuppie values of "greed is good"......

Even hippy peace and love Glastonbury Festival was hit by a crime wave
of tent thefts and assaults in the early 1980s...
[popularly blamed on an invasion of skint unemployed northern youths
climbing over the pre security intensified barriers]

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Sedayne)
Date: 03 May 15 - 09:29 AM

Can we keep this grubby pro / anti Thatcher apologism / scapegoating off this thread & have some respect for the OP? Poor lass will be traumatised enough with you lot squabbling on. Note where we are here - ABOVE the line. Behave yourselves, or else open another thread down there...

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 May 15 - 09:41 AM

just providing a little context..

I was actually a victim support volunteer for a few years in an inner city in the mid 80s...

[no seriously, I really was...]

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 May 15 - 10:52 AM

Oh, so nobody ever committed any crimes before that?; and that made it OK to do so now, did it?

Well that's all right then eh!

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 May 15 - 11:11 AM

MGM·Lion - oh come on now, seriously...???

You know it's fair and valid to discuss the scale and nature of the perceived/reality 'epidemic' of crimes
that may be considered to result directly from fall out
of 1980s thatcherite policies and socio-economic engineering...???

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: ranger1
Date: 03 May 15 - 11:47 AM

Diane, do check into some sort of victim services, as there can be delayed reactions to assaults. Also, taking some sort of self-defense class never hurts, and many of them are also good for physical fitness. They don't have to be full-contact martial arts classes to be useful. I'm a female park ranger in a state where park rangers aren't armed and I frequently am the only park staff on duty. Taking a martial arts class back in uni was helpful. Sometimes just giving off the "I can handle myself" vibe is all it takes to not "look like a victim".

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 15 - 11:57 AM

"just one more part of the wonderful Thatcher legacy"
As somebody who was attacked outside a folk club eight years before Thatcher came to power I don't think that she can take all the blame.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 May 15 - 12:00 PM

Time spent training to be a ninja is time taken away from stories or music, and dressing up like Lara Croft is OTT for dealing with a potential random assault from a spaced-out gluesniffer.

Looks like Northerner is doing a good job of putting this episode into the past.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: ranger1
Date: 03 May 15 - 12:02 PM

Jack, an hour a week for six weeks or so hardly constitutes a huge time suck. But whatever.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 May 15 - 12:19 PM

GUEST - so... I was attacked in a snooker club while thatcher was in power...
and of course it would be just as silly for me to say she was directly responsible for that...???
Besides which, she had an alibi placing her elsewhere that particular night...😜

Also GUEST.. As for the safety of people in the vicinity of folk clubs from the 1970s onwards,
is there a pattern emerging...???

were you carrying a bodhran...!!!???


Ok.. seriously

I don't know how much victim support has changed in the near 30 years since I was involved..
back then it worked for some 'victims' and not for others..

but if Northerner feels like giving them a call for an informal chat...

What I learned from being a volunteer in a 'rough' city centre
back when I was a skinny long haired student looking type
was to try to always appear confidently as if I had every right to be on that street.

No looking lost, hesitant, or openly thumbing through A-Z street maps..

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 May 15 - 03:44 PM

my apologies, you Thatcher voters must have much on your comscience. no intention of stirring those troubled consciences.

if you really see no connection with the maelstrom of broken homes, hopeless poverty, and unemployment that Thatch veited on this country and street crime. I sort of feel sorry for you.

denise's relations from near where you live used to come and visit us and say - recession! what recession.   you see as a tory voter you were bribed.

You inheritors of Maggie - vote for Cameron !   You deserve each other.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 03 May 15 - 06:21 PM

50 years from now your things will reside somewhere else.

The woman was obviously desperate.

Release the property and praise that it was transferred to a more needy place.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

praise the bounty you had.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 May 15 - 08:55 AM

As somebody who was attacked outside a folk club eight years before Thatcher came to power I don't think that she can take all the blame.

All the blame? Of course not. Just most of it. Nobody's perfect.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: olddude
Date: 04 May 15 - 10:15 AM

Kuntao always served me well

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 04 May 15 - 12:23 PM

I `ad that Big Al Whittle in my cab the other day. `e was going on about Maggie duffing up people going to their Folk Club with `er `andbag and nicking their tambourines.
I said, "Morning Al. I see you`ve been stirring up that Mudcat again saying Thatcher was the cause of all the street crime and `ardship."
`e said, "That`s Right Jim. With a stroke of `er `and she brought the industrial might down to it`s knees putting thousands out of work."
I said, "Oh, so it was nothing to do with the Far East producing ships, cars, motorcycles, watches, cameras, televisions, and all manner of consumer goods, at rock-bottom prices, well made and designed, that we soaked up like a sponge because Europe and the U.S. could not compete on price."
`e said, "Oh yeah. Well, that and all!!"


Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 May 15 - 01:40 PM

round about the same time English factories were producing shite, so was the Skoda factory. then they got took over by a company tha invested in modern design teams and modern track.

capital in England resides in the hands of people who always go for the quick return with no hard work and showing no responsibility to the society in which they are privileged to live.

if theres a job to done - get Chinese peasants. coal to be dug - get south american child labour. the quickest return, the more loot back in the swiss bank account.

the result - whether you like it or not is that our streets now play hosts to all manner of reprobates, outcasts and losers. and strahgely enough - the situation is worse in the very towns and cities that were the workshops of our nation.

take pride in the unspeakable results of voting tory.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 04 May 15 - 04:06 PM

This appears to be legal to carry.

You can buy pepper spray on ebay, but that probably isn't legal.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 May 15 - 09:33 AM

I walk a lot (in daylight) between bus stops, I hate waiting. Often I am holding what is like a walking pole, but is actually a fishing pole (not a rod).

Cars in a side road approaching the main road are legally obliged to give way if you are crossing the side road at the junction.

Let us just say more cars wait for me if I have the pole, and especially if it is thrust out in front. And behind to prevent them getting too close. They get the message. I look like I am purposeful. It works.

As a man I don't like carrying (eg) man-bags but prefer to carry essentials in a bum bag, located at the front, usually covered by a jacket. Wallet is in trousers side pocket (never back pocket). Phone on a lanyard, long enough to reach the bum bag where is sits. These are convenient arrangements but it is a conscious decision re security. Although I don't carry it now, I have a personal alarm that doubles as a torch, I bought it from my local police station. It is loud.

Worth a thought - wear trousers/jeans and put money/cards in pockets. Walk with a stride, and a walking pole, they have sharp tips. If nothing else it will make you feel safer.

And if in doubt - play the djembe very loud at them and if you carry a banjo - you never know - they might put another in your carrier bag! Instead.

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Northerner
Date: 05 May 15 - 09:45 AM

Thank you all. I will look into what is available locally in the way of support for victims. I was in good spirits for the first few days but now my emotions are all over the place. A bit of counselling could help with that. Good news is that the incident hasn't affected me as a performer. Wrote another poem at the weekend and hope to try it out tonight at the Cutty Wren Folk Club. Diane

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 May 15 - 04:31 AM

Never drive with the doors unlocked

This is not good advice.

If I drive into a lamp post, it's no comfort knowing that I'm safe from muggers if my rescuers can't drag me from the burning car.

DC

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 May 15 - 05:06 AM

Northerner - I'd encourage at least an informal chat with your local victim support volunteers
if you feel shaken up by the bad experience..

I'm long out of touch with the state of current Victim Support Schemes,
but the group I was involved in as a volunteer 30ish years ago
was very good and well resourced.

Training for giving practical advice and counselling was taken very seriously.
The skills level of volunteers involved was quite 'professional'.
They weren't just a bunch of well intentioned ineffectual amateur do-gooders.

I was probably one of the youngest and least experienced,
as a new graduate testing myself out if I was suitable for a career
in some kind of social work
[one of the usual career paths, along with teaching or media/journalism, for my particular degree].

Very valuable life experience in my mid 20s,
but it helped me understand I wasn't cut out to be a Social Worker.

take care...

Subject: RE: Attacked on my way to Stockton Folk Club
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 06 May 15 - 05:40 AM

'Never drive with the doors unlocked'
My Roomster came with auto central locking as soon as you drove off though it did promise to unlock in the event of disaster.
I didn't trust a computer to get it right when the chips were down so had it disabled. Can of course choose to lock.