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BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel
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Subject: BS: More Christian Persecution From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 15 - 08:36 AM Story Here |
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Subject: RE: BS: More Christian Persecution From: akenaton Date: 28 May 15 - 08:45 AM Why no beheadings? |
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Subject: RE: BS: More Christian Persecution From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 May 15 - 09:00 AM "no beheadings" Ah well - as long as they keep their persecution within reason Can't help that one of the newly elected Israeli ministers has declared that Israel was "bequeathed by God to the Jewish people" That should calm things down a bit!! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: More Christian Persecution From: GUEST Date: 28 May 15 - 12:19 PM So in Israel Christian schools are funded by Israeli taxpayers. Can you tell us how many Christian schools in other middle East Muslim countries are funded by their taxpayers? |
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Subject: RE: BS: More Christian Persecution From: Joe Offer Date: 28 May 15 - 01:11 PM So, Greg F, what did you want to say about the subject? Or, in an attempt to start a fight, did you just post a provocative title and a link to something that doesn't mean a whole lot? In some countries, taxpayers pay for the education of all their children, whether they go to church schools or government schools or whatever. The important thing is that the kids get educated. Ideology shouldn't enter into the equation. I have expanded the thread title to something more truthful and less provocative. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Israel Education Ministry funds private schools From: GUEST Date: 28 May 15 - 01:18 PM What do you think about this Greg F? "Brunei Teachers to Face Punishment, Prison for Exposing Muslim Children to Christianity Even in Christian Schools" CP |
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Subject: RE: BS:Israel Education Ministry funds private schools From: Joe Offer Date: 28 May 15 - 01:25 PM Let's have a quote from the article in question:
The protesting Christian schools say this public funding has been systematically cut in recent years to their elementary schools. To compensate, schools raised tuition fees — a burden for the Arab community whose average income is generally lower than the national average.... The Christian schools' fight reflects a wider battle being waged by other private schools — which have the status of being "recognized but unofficial." According to the Education Ministry, there are a total of 277 elementary schools with this status. Christian administrators say their 47 church-run elementary schools are affected by the budget crisis. These schools are all facing the same budget cuts that the Christian private schools are, said Amnon De Hartog, a lawyer representing one of 23 private schools — mostly Jewish religious schools — that are petitioning Israel's Supreme Court against the recent budget cuts. They say the cuts are unfair because Israel fully funds two large ultra-Orthodox Jewish private school networks — preferential treatment enshrined into law years ago thanks to the great influence of ultra-Orthodox political parties. Advocates for the Arab community in Israel say the situation of church-run schools is different from other private schools. Some 30,000 Arab students — about half of them Muslim and half of them Christian — study in about 50 church-run schools in the country. Many of the schools have operated for centuries. "It's a major part of the Arabic education system," said Sawsan Zaher of Adalah, a legal center for Arab minority rights in Israel. "When you see they are not fully funded while religious ultra-Orthodox schools are fully funded, of course you have discrimination, even if you have the law that enables that." So, there are 50 church-run schools funded by tax dollars in Israel. The educate some 30,000 students, half of them Muslim and half Christian. They have a reputation for academic excellence. They are facing funding cuts, as are some private Jewish schools. Because of the unusual power the ultra-Orthodox hold in Israel, the ultra-Orthodox schools have not faced similar cuts. So, Greg F., what do you have to say about all this? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 15 - 02:40 PM Well, Joe, what I have to say is: 1. I posted it for people to READ in its entirety (so good job, Joe! You read it!) rather than cutting and pasting a long screed - which, by the way would violate Mudcat "1-screen" rules) and for people to comment on (good job again, Joe! You commented on it!) 2.This is every bit as much of an example of "Christian persecution" as 90% of the previous nonsense posted here regarding "The War On Christianity" supposedly sweeping the globe. 3. Here's another quote from the article, Joe (emphasis mine): Private Christian schools are among Israel's highest ranked educational institutions, established by churches in the Holy Land hundreds of years ago — long before Israel's own creation. But school administrators are accusing Israel of slashing their funding as a pressure tactic to get them join the Israeli public school system — a move they say would interfere with the schools' Christian values and high academic achievements. They are also complaining of discrimination, since as Israel moves to cut money to Christian schools it continues to fully fund large private school networks that cater to ultra-Orthodox Jews. 4. "Doesn't mean a whole lot" Joe? It apparently means a whole lot to the folks that are protesting. Or don't thay count in your book? Take a deep breath & get off your high horse. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 15 - 02:42 PM Oh, and by the way, Joe, was it REALLY necessary to change the title of the thread? If so, why weren't all the previous threads' titles about "Christian Persecution" changed? |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 28 May 15 - 04:00 PM Schools have no business proclaiming themselves faith schools and expecting state funding. I don't care what state and what religion. If you want to set up a faith school you should stand on your own two feet one hundred percent. I could get even more worked up and declare that faith schools should be disallowed by any right-thinking nation. Religious instruction is anti-education because it teaches uncritical thinking, the very antithesis of the word education. I do think that there is such a thing as religion education. All children should be taught about the role of religion, past and present, in the world. But they should be taught it sitting up, not on their knees and with their hands joined. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 15 - 04:40 PM Schools have no business proclaiming themselves faith schools and expecting state funding. Good thing Israel isn't a theocracy, eh Steve? |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link Date: 28 May 15 - 04:49 PM anyone would think that if a kid goes to a faith school that he leaves his brains at the door, if you read steves judgment !. this school apparently has a very good record academically, so supporting it is hardly wasted money. if this were in the uk ,the critics would say it was because of selection of students from well favoured backgrounds. not a charge that seems to apply here , it seems. every school has some sort of worldview. when Gove was min of education, I seem to remember he made it illegal to question a certain dogma. the kids apparently can leave their brains behind sometimes, rather than be able to decide themselves between competing explanations. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 15 - 04:58 PM if a kid goes to a faith school that he leaves his brains at the door and in many cases, studies have proven this to be absolutely true, especially at the fundagelical end of the spectrum of whatever religious persuasion you care to choose... |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 28 May 15 - 05:32 PM Schools are about promoting well-rounded, well-balanced young people who have the skills to think critically and not believe anything they are told unless evidence is presented to them. For religious instruction, you do indeed need to leave your brain at the classroom/chapel door, if not at the school entrance. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Joe Offer Date: 28 May 15 - 06:06 PM Seems to me that since the State of Israel is so clearly dominated by Judaism, it would only make sense to allow Christians and Muslims to have their own schools, supported by taxpayer money. And note that these schools are generally half Christian-half Muslim. And Steve, regarding your statement: Religious instruction is anti-education because it teaches uncritical thinking, the very antithesis of the word education - it ain't necessarily so. The Catholic seminary I attended stressed critical thinking, not indoctrination. Critical thinking is a primary emphasis in Jesuit schools. And many other religious schools strive to teach their students to think deep and to consider all possibilities. You and some others seem to see only a world of ideology and propaganda, so you think that everyone is as mind-controlled as you are. It's not like that in real life, even among religious people. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: GUEST Date: 28 May 15 - 06:26 PM The fact that Israel funds faith schools is a shining example of it's inclusivity despite Greg F's attempt to use it to once again bash Israel. I guess he has been missing the Israel bashing threads which seem to be one of his main preoccupations. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 28 May 15 - 06:28 PM Well I taught in a Catholic school for six years and a Church of England one for eleven, and all the children in both were subjected to frequent services and assemblies in which they were forced to chant prayers and sing hymns. Free thinking was not encouraged at these events. What happens in your seminaries, which, I would point out, occurs within a tight ringfence of assumed belief, is not a reflection of what happens in ordinary faith schools. I do have experience, you know. Religious instruction is not the same as education in religion. The key difference is the word "education". |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 15 - 06:57 PM I think Joe's just having a bad day, Steve, if the PM I just recieved is any indication. This too shall pass. He'll probably be his old self tomorrow. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: GUEST Date: 28 May 15 - 06:58 PM Encouraging free thinking at prayer and hymn sing? Do tell us how that would work. I attended Catholic school for eleven years one year in a juniorate of the Christian Brothers. I also attended a Jesuit College. I am an atheist and a freethinker. I was taught well. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 28 May 15 - 07:19 PM I think I was making the point that good education should not include enforced worship. I'll debate what good education should entail any day. Your example is but one such. Mine is just another. Very many people who are given religious instruction end up being ardent believers. Worth remembering. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 28 May 15 - 07:42 PM You and some others seem to see only a world of ideology and propaganda, so you think that everyone is as mind-controlled as you are. Well This is my fifth post to this thread. I'm aware of how prickly some people get when threads are on religious topics and, so far, I've strained every sinew in this one to be direct yet address the issue. But I still get this, and from a moderator/ex-moderator to boot. Nothing that I've I've posted in this thread is propaganda and all of it is measured. If you feel challenged by it, great. Let's argue. But this kind of response deserves to better then that K**th expression consisting of two little words that indicates that you do not win. And my mind's my own, thank you, and, what's more, it's unfettered by religion. Yes, unfettered. Or uncontrolled if you like. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 28 May 15 - 07:44 PM Blimey, bad reviewing there. You get my drift... |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 May 15 - 07:59 PM "Seems to me that since the State of Israel is so clearly dominated by Judaism, it would only make sense to allow Christians and Muslims to have their own schools2 Or alternatively, remove the religious aspect of all schools and stop poisoning the minds with fairytales taught as fact Maybe that way, they won't end up tearing each others heads off because they worship the wrong God, like their parents are doing Now that's a thought!! But then again, how would they explain that God bequeathed Palestine to the Jews, as has recently been claimed by an Israeli politician And the music goers round and round....... Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 28 May 15 - 08:07 PM Yes, it wouldn't make any sense at all. Agreed. Faith schools are nothing more than the frank manifestation of organised religion's need to keep recruiting from a captive flock and to control young minds. In view of what you said, somewhat ironic, eh, Joe? |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Joe Offer Date: 28 May 15 - 08:20 PM Steve Shaw says: forced to chant prayers and sing hymns....and...good education should not include enforced worship. Well, shucks, Steve. I had no idea that worship services and hymn singing were so harmful. I kinda enjoyed them. Of course, one might expect worship services at a "faith-based" school. No doubt, many attended religious schools and decided they didn't like worship services and never attended again once they finished school. But at least they were exposed to such things and then were able to make a choice. I suppose your students were also subjected to the torture of Algebra? How is a worship service any worse torture than Algebra? For those of us who liked music, the hymns and chanting were very enjoyable - even if we didn't believe all the words. And I liked the Algebra, too. As for freedom of thought, we had lots of rich, no-holds-barred discussions in the seminary. I think we were quite open about considering all points of view. I went through a period during my seminary years when I considered myself to be an atheist, and I wasn't kicked out. "Critical thinking" does not necessarily require espousing an atheist ideology, despite what some Mudcatters seem to think. It means being open to various opinions, and being open to questioning one's own opinions. If you are not able to set your own opinions aside and see life through the eyes of a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Jew or a Wiccan or an Evangelical Christian, then I wonder if you are capable of "critical thought." Critical thought is not the ability to refute all viewpoints other than one's own. Critical thought requires being open to all possibilities and all perspectives, and it is clear that some of our Mudcat absolutists are not capable of that. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 15 - 08:22 PM The important thing is that the kids get educated. Absolutely, Joe. Ideology shouldn't enter into the equation. Nor should religion. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Joe Offer Date: 28 May 15 - 08:31 PM Greg, I listen as often as I can to a radio program called All Things Considered. Perhaps you do, too. Shouldn't religious thought from all creeds and cultures be considered? Thought is quite different from ideology. Thought is open to alternatives. And despite what you may think, most religious traditions consider a wide range of alternatives. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 28 May 15 - 08:53 PM Critical thinking requires no ideology getting in the way at all. I do not enjoy a thing called an atheist ideology, Joe. As I have said here God knows how many times, I don't know whether there's a God or not. I can't build any sort of ideology on that. I've also said that I celebrate the right of everyone to enjoy whatever beliefs they want to. I've expressed heartfelt sympathy for both the Jews in Israel living in insecurity and for the Muslims in Gaza living in impoverished siege. I've attacked the Catholic Church vehemently (including today, on another thread) for its history of antisemitism and acquiescence In the mistreatment of Jews before and during the Second World War. I've studied parts of the Bible in response to pete (as well as parts of it unprovoked). I've demurred out loud from attacking the Church in general over the sins of a minority of its priests. I've scolded those who you'd think were my allies for blaming war on religion. I've respected the good work of scientists who happen to have religious faith. All these things are in threads in this forum, posted by me, usually many times over. If you think that these are evidence that I refute all viewpoints other than my own, then you're not reading my posts properly. You appear to have a habit of becoming very prickly and defensive whenever religion comes up. Without wishing to judge you, I would say that, in the past, I've noticed that people who get that way are usually insecure. If you feel secure in your beliefs you can laugh me off in a heartbeat. Can't you? Incidentally, your comparison of religion in school with algebra is invidious in the extreme, and I think you know it. Algebra, hard though it can be, is a rather elegant, precise and ultimately truthful way of explaining the world. Religion is a way of trying to explain the world with an impossible notion that can never be shown to be true, no matter how many times you force the kids to chant the prayers that assume it is. The only choice you'll admit to is the choice of dropping the whole thing once the kids leave school. That leaves anything up to eighteen years or so in which choice is denied. Some education that is. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 15 - 09:01 PM Yup. Listen regularly on the local PBS station. Absolutely. Considered, explored, and discussed, critically examined - in the proper forum. However, religious thought and religious dogma are hardly the same - the latter is often indistinguishable from ideology. And children should not be indoctrinated with religious dogma masquerading as "education", particularly at public expense. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 28 May 15 - 09:03 PM Ooops- Steve's post got in ahead of mine while I was typing & he does a much better job than I did. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Joe Offer Date: 28 May 15 - 09:32 PM Steve Shaw says: You appear to have a habit of becoming very prickly and defensive whenever religion comes up. Without wishing to judge you, I would say that, in the past, I've noticed that people who get that way are usually insecure. If you feel secure in your beliefs you can laugh me off in a heartbeat. Can't you? Sorry, Steve, but you're just not understanding me. You seem to be understanding religious thought, or any kind of thought, only within the context of ideology. Doctrine is a necessary thing, very much like Algebra. It gives the outline of the thinking of a particular religious denomination. It is not faith, but it can be the context for faith. You study it, consider it, retain what is useful to you, and forget the rest. It is a systematic presentation of a system/school of thought - but it is not thought itself. I think it is worthwhile for students to be exposed to as many systems of thought as possible, including a wide variety of religious thought. As a person becomes capable of thinking for himself, then that person should develop his or her own system of thinking - learning from the many systems of thought presented to the student through education. These private schools in Israel seem to be ideal. Since they provide an excellent education to both Muslim and Christian students in a country dominated by Jews, they must be exposed to all three traditions (traditions, not ideologies). As such, they offer hope for developing a mutual understanding among these three traditions that have so many differences and yet so much in common. I'm sure that government-owned schools in Israel are dominated by Judaism, no matter how hard they try to be open-minded. It would seem that the privately-operated schools must be preserved, to hold out some hope of communication and harmony among Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Now, I admit that most Jews I know of in Israel are atheists, so that complicates my argument a bit. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: akenaton Date: 29 May 15 - 03:49 AM " You appear to have a habit of becoming very prickly and defensive whenever religion comes up. Without wishing to judge you, I would say that, in the past, I've noticed that people who get that way are usually insecure. If you feel secure in your beliefs you can laugh me off in a heartbeat. Can't you?" How ironic is that post from Steve....exactly the tactics they used to try to silence me!! :0) This is exactly what I mean when I accuse them of being ideologically driven. I suppose you and your little gang never get "prickly" Steve? You get very prickly indeed ...more than prickly, obscenely abusive. What does that say about the security of YOUR position? |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Jim Carroll Date: 29 May 15 - 04:11 AM Jesuit maxim "Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man" Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 29 May 15 - 05:04 AM "Doctrine is a necessary thing, very much like Algebra" [sic Doctrine is a set of tenets laid down by people to shore up a belief system. Algebra is how the world works, an unchanging set of truths that we have to tease out with our poor human brains. Your equation of these two entirely different things is a valiant yet ultimately risible attempt to lend the faith behind your doctrine a bit more legitimacy. You're being very unfair to algebra but algebra cares not a jot. Neither do I much care for your unfair characterisation of my thinking, thank you. Ultimately, I listen to everybody's opinion, think about it and try to decide what I glean from it. Almost all my posts here are thought-out replies to what other people have said. Tough if you don't like my opinions and I don't need you to give me credit for them. I don't have doctrines to keep to keep me on track, like you do. At the end of the day you have you comfort blanket of faith to keep you warm. There is simply no telling you that faith schools are unfair in principle, both to its pupils and to those outside who have to put up with the secular state schools depleted of good pupils as a result. Note, "in principle". All you can talk about is how fantastic you see the faith schools as being. Well there are millions of people of no faith who deserve just as much cosseting as those in faith schools who don't get it. And, frankly, neither deserve the proselytising and enforced worship the latter inflict, that you simply can't bring yourself to admit are nothing to do with education. Maybe you believe in the trickle-down effect provided by these amazing schools. Well some of us don't, seeing that as an argument for elitism. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 29 May 15 - 07:46 AM To their pupils. Grr. And someone chopped off my square bracket. Painful. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link Date: 29 May 15 - 06:31 PM methinks that steve does not recognize his own belief system, albeit not structured as precisely as, say, the apostles creed, or the Westminster confession. he none the less follows a doctrine that says that a creator is not needed to explain creation [or whatever term an atheist might use ] without being able to back up such a belief with evidence. and since this mindset is taught in schools as though it were an unassailable fact, the critical thinking of students is hampered. I am however encouraged that steve can point to impartial posts thoroughly thought out by him. I wish I could recall them, but I expect there are some. he is very prolific after all. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 29 May 15 - 08:39 PM Say goodnight to the folks, Gracie... |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Joe Offer Date: 29 May 15 - 10:34 PM Jesuit maxim "Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man" Jim Carroll Yep, and what the Jesuits try very hard to do, is to teach young men to think for themselves. Maybe that's why the Jesuits were suppressed by the Catholic Church from 1750-1773, and maybe that's why our current Jesuit pope is so well-received.. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Jim Carroll Date: 30 May 15 - 08:24 AM "Yep, and what the Jesuits try very hard to do, is to teach young men to think for themselves." Can't speak for the U.S. Joe, but over here the Jesuits are noted for their violent methods of teaching - the two seem contradictory to me. Would highly recommend Patrick Galvin's 'Raggy Boy' trilogy. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Musket Date: 30 May 15 - 11:44 AM I notice a load of Jews in London have told their women they cannot drive their kids to school because driving isn't modest. Remind me again, what is the purpose of religion? What possible place can it have for our children other than to abuse them, fuck them up for life and give you a warped view of the world. The more you ignore superstitious nonsense, the sooner it fades away. If it had any balls, I'd be facing a lightning strike right now. No? Must be bollocks after all. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Joe Offer Date: 30 May 15 - 02:12 PM Jim, I thought the "Raggy Boys" school was taught by the Irish Christian Brothers (not the brandy-making Christian Brothers of France & U.S.). The Jesuits have had a reputation for high academic standards. If sure there were brutal teachers in every religious order in my parents' time - strictness was considered a virtue, and the difference between strictness and brutality can be very hard to detect. There's no doubt that the Christian Brothers of Ireland (and Canada) had a reputation for brutality. (Wikipedia) -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Jim Carroll Date: 30 May 15 - 03:44 PM "school was taught by the Irish Christian Brothers " Sorry Joe - you may very well be right, if so thanks for the correction. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Teribus Date: 30 May 15 - 04:01 PM "Jim Carroll - 29 May 15 - 04:11 AM Jesuit maxim "Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man" Jim Carroll Well f''k me Jim I never knew that Aristotle was a Jesuit (That quote after all is his) Aristotle: 384 - 322 BC Jesuits: Formed 1540 AD Care to tell us exactly where you actually touch reality in your life - or is reality a complete and utter foreign land to you?. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 30 May 15 - 05:09 PM Google it, Billyboy. Jim has it right. You really ought to do some checking before you do your kneejerk extracting of the Michael. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 30 May 15 - 05:21 PM Standard grade T-Bird foaming at the mouth. Nothin' new here folks, move along..... |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Joe Offer Date: 30 May 15 - 05:31 PM My Oxford Dictionary of Quaotations has it as
And another quote:
Whatever the case, various versions of the phrase have been used both by those who praise and those who damn the Jesuits. In days before Catholics once again became fair game for prejudice, I heard the phrase used to promote the value of education. My experience with Jesuits has been very positive. I'm sure others have had negative experiences. Depends upon which Jesuit you're talking about. Teilhard de Chardin and Dan Berrigan were two good ones (Berrigan still is, and I think Jesuit Pope Francis has done well). I didn't find a similar phrase from Aristotle, but it's possible something like that would come from an old Greek guy. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Greg F. Date: 30 May 15 - 05:47 PM In days before Catholics once again became fair game for prejudice, When were they NOT fair game, Joe? But take heart, the real foaming-at-the-mouth idiot bigots are currently primarily after Islam. |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Joe Offer Date: 30 May 15 - 06:25 PM I can't say about attitudes in Europe, but Catholics were quite acceptable in the United States from 1960 until Americans forgot about Jackie Kennedy in about 1995. Jesuits remain popular and trusted in the United States, mostly because their schools have good basketball teams. Note, however, that the Jesuits closed down their University of San Francisco basketball team because of a cheating scandal... Among ultraconservative Catholics, the Jesuit order is considered to be a Haven for Heretics. They never dreamed that a Jesuit could be elected Pope, and they're still quite upset about the last papal election. Interestingly, they're not as certain as they used to be about demanding "absolute obedience to the Pope." -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: GUEST Date: 30 May 15 - 06:52 PM Greg F has no qualms about criticizing Christianity or Catholicism but labels those who do the same about Islam as bigots. Why is that do you think? |
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Subject: RE: BS:Christian Persecution? School funding in Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 30 May 15 - 07:10 PM No he doesn't. It's just that you don't appear to be able to read properly. |
