BS: Food for thought on climate change

Subject: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 04:17 AM

http://www.vice.com/read/a-psychologist-explains-why-people-dont-really-give-a-shit-about-climate-change-608?utm_source=vicefbus

I found it interesting. Both pessimistic and optimistic in turn. I did particularly like the like "Of the four largest companies in the world, only one is an oil company. The other three are Apple, Google, and Microsoft. Why should these companies let ExxonMobil ruin the growth of their consumer markets, as global warming will?"

Never thought of Google as a world saver :-)

Enjoy...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 04:52 AM

Hmmm
We had better give a "thought for food".
Global Warming (whatever the cause) will mean different plants growing in unfamiliar eco-systems. And a global reduction in total plant production (according to the New Scientist), smaller yields, from plants better suited to hot/arid conditions. Someone has done the agricultural predictions based on temperatures, desertification, and water shortages. Not to mention population growth. Almost all of who expect "science" will find a way. Yea. Sure!

The upshot has to be, as third worlds wake up to their being "exploited", that food will become more expensive. And maybe the waste we see in developed countries subsides and becomes anti-social as drugs and smoking has. People still smoke, so waste will never go away but....

The current figures tell us that we spend 11% of our income (as a UK nation) on food. Compare that to 50/60 years ago when the figure was 24% and we had a lot of grow-yer-own philosophy then, compared to now.
We are borrowing from somewhere, third world or the future.
I mean, strawberries the whole year round, coming in by plane! That is borrowing from the climate.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 05:16 AM

That certainly is a big factor Mr. R. I first thought of it when I lived in Belgium many years ago and noticed, of all things, that the yoghurt in the supermarkets was all from the UK while the ones in the UK were all from France :-( If I was a conspiracy theorist I would say the transport companies had a hand in that!

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 05:55 AM

Morrisons were selling alien courgettes when I was so overwhelmed by my own in my garden that the compost heap was the main beneficiary. I can buy a pound of tasteless New Zealand apples in Cornwall that have been chemical-sprayed twenty times, cold-stored for weeks or months and air-freighted half way round the world - for a quid. It costs me twice as much to send a birthday card to my nephew in the opposite direction!

I've completely changed my mind about the only way to save the planet. Nuclear energy (there, that's nearly all my friends gone...). We have shown that we can't reduce emissions and you can bugger off with your wind turbines all over Cornwall whose main purpose is to line the pockets of big landowners who already have too much money and to keep the air-conditioning running in badly-designed buildings in big cities.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 06:04 AM

I'll have a word with the boss, Steve. Our new CEO is called Dave, last name starts with Po and he is from Manchester so I have a lot in common with him. Sure he will listen to me :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 06:44 AM

It was a few years ago, Dave. Maybe Morrisons have upped their game. If I need to buy courgettes these days (very rare though I do have a very nice frittata recipe) I buy them from Waitrose, which is pronounced Waytrowse... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Rumncoke
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 07:41 AM

We ought to be using more cannabis - no not the smoking kind, the sort Du Pont got outlawed in the USA. Hemp, Cannabis sativa.

It is a really useful plant for so many things - plus it doesn't need a lot of looking after or spraying and the water consumption is way lower than for growing cotton.

It used to be used for clothing, sails, food, paper, a huge list. It is beneficial to the ecology, and would be good for the economy - but maybe not for those in the oil business.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 02:19 PM

Hemp is at hand!

Every little helps as our competitor says :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST,#
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 03:23 PM

"We ought to be using more cannabis - no not the smoking kind, the sort Du Pont got outlawed in the USA. Hemp, Cannabis sativa."

Both indica and sativa can be smoked to produce a 'high'.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 05:09 PM

Most of the plant is not productive of THC. It is a very useful plant.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 06:40 PM

It is reckoned that 10% (or maybe as much as 20%) of all world electricity is consumed in computers. Server Farms run by IBM, Farcebook, Amazon and, yes, Google are by far the biggest users. So much so that Farcebook are (have?) built their latest in Scandinavia because it is cooler there and they can sell the heat they have to extract more readily. A Dutch university installs domestic radiators in private houses that are actually power hungry PC's linked as part of a distributed network that sums to a humungus computing system. And they are specially vented to atmosphere in summer!

Google have a vested interest in looking like the good guys, they hide a guilty secret. And we all use them. Well I don't, I use Yahoo, as if that exonerates me!

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST,#
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 07:48 PM

"Most of the plant is not productive of THC. It is a very useful plant."

The part that isn't useful for fiber, edible seeds, oil (which makes an excellent lubricant) produces THC. That part is called leaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 10:29 PM

Wrong. The flower is where the THC is concentrated.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 11:15 PM

It's all about the buds, bud.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 12:11 AM

Bud me no buds, younker! :D

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 04:26 AM

Not much use if it goes to pot!

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 06:30 AM

Online bud:


BC Bud 

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST,#
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 07:09 AM

Gentlemen, of course the bud is where the greater concentration of THC is, but the leaves are good too. Never having smoked the demon weed--unlike many miscreants who frequent this site--I am at the mercy of scholarly articles such as the one attached.

http://www.leafscience.com/2014/06/19/indica-vs-sativa-understanding-differences/

Beautiful colours I might add.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 09:21 AM

The part that is a controlled substance in the UK is "the flowering or fruiting tops".

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 09:48 AM

And, then, there is clothing.

hemp-more than rope 

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST,#
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 10:13 AM

From CULPEPER'S COMPLETE HERBAL [1814]
        
HEMP

This is so well known to every good housewife in the country, that I shall not need to write any description of it.

Time. It is sown in the very end of March, or beginning of April, and is ripe in August or September.

Government and virtues. It is a plant of Saturn, and good for something else, you see, than to make halters only. The seed of Hemp consumes wind, and by too much use thereof disperses it so much that it dries up the natural seed for procreation; yet, being boiled in milk and taken, helps such as have a hot dry cough. The Dutch make an emulsion out of the seed, and give it with good success to those that have the jaundice, especially in the beginning of the disease, if there be no ague accompanying it, for it opens obstructions of the gall, and causes digestion of choler. The emulsion or decoction of the seed stays lasks and continual fluxes, eases the cholic, and allays the troublesome humours in the bowels, and stays bleeding at the mouth, nose, or other places, some of the leaves, being fried with the blood of them that bleed, and so given them to eat. It is held very good to kill the worms in men or beasts; and the juice dropped into the ears kills worms in them; and draws forth earwigs, or other living creatures gotten into them. The decoction of the root allays inflammations of the head, or any other parts: the herb itself, or the distilled water thereof doth the like. The decoction of the root eases the pains of the gout, the hard humours of knots in the joints, the pains and shrinking of the sinews, and the pains of the hips. The fresh juice mixed with a little oil and butter, is good for any place that hath been burnt with fire, being thereto applied.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 06:03 AM

Hemp used for sacking is from plants bred to have no useful THC.

One thing not widely talked about with cannabis is day 7. All that mellowness it is supposed to inculcate, is traded for aggression building to a peak on day 7 after.

Like Guest # I never. But I do read the New Scientist weekly and occasionally there are reports of reasearch such as it is, it is difficult to get funding for research on the subject. No surprise. But the article was based on reportage from imbibers and close associates thereof.

A Folkie friend told me it was day 5 and 12, but then admitted that by day 5 her husband was so difficult to live with she got some more on day 5. Day 5 to day 12 is 7 days!
I have seen a colleague get difficult to converse with 8 days after his proud Sunday smoke.
Then there is the potential for paranoia. And the drug tests on drivers in the UK (and some company employees) to consider.

Know the risks. And don't drive yer car near me - PAL.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Rumncoke
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 07:19 AM

Just as the version of hemp sold as - I think - skunk, has a higher concentration of some part of the usual or possible content, the sort grown for paper or long fibres has a far lower level.

Also, grown in places with lower temperatures, the plant still grows quite happily to be several metres tall, but it not likely to produce the highs associated with more tropic climates.

The powers that be seem perfectly willing to allow alcohol to be consumed, and that has far fewer benefits than hemp, and causes distress and injury which seems socially acceptable.

Ecologies and economies could be transformed by having such a useful resource as hemp grown in bulk and freely available.

By the way - when the permafrost really starts to melt, if there's nothing to hold it together there's going to be problems as the land slumps into the sea - and hemp fibre resists waterlogging.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 03:53 AM

We all select the facts that support our proclivities. Proof above. As if there aren't plants that last more than 1 year that will hold soil!

Alcohol is a toxin. And much to the surprise of the ignorant is medically called a depressant.

I have never become intoxicated by the exhaled fumes of a drunkard. But I am willing to bet the passive smoking of cannabis is inebriating.

And it is widely known that you can be intoxicated to the point of being over the limit for driving even 12 hours later. The aggression from imbibing cannabis 7 days before is not out there in the consciousness of the public, let alone the pot-heads. The law makers are aware, thankfully.

I value road safety. That is my proclivity.
All those not in favour of road safety, kindly drive somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 04:31 AM

But I am willing to bet the passive smoking of cannabis is inebriating.

I was made aware of this as the designated driver coming back from a concert where there was plenty being smoked. About halfway back I realised that, even though I had no alcohol at all, I should not have bern driving!

But what it has to do with climate change is beyond me so

if
Anyone would care to add anything about that is to do with the subject
then
please feel free.
else
Start your own thread
fi

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Rumncoke
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 06:34 PM

What do we make paper out of - even if a small amount of it does get recycled - trees.

Stop cutting down trees - they absorb vast amounts of carbon dioxide and they put out oxygen and also water vapour which falls as rain.

That is a good thing.

Man made fibre is a petroleum derivative. Hemp fibre is made by a plant which absorbs carbon dioxide, which is a good thing.

You can make really good paper out of it, and lots of other stuff too, and you can grow it in far more places that you can get oil out of, including you own garden.   

Hemp plants do not need pesticides, another petroleum derivative, the water requirements are modest, and most of it ends up in the air, and falls as rain. It also put out oxygen all day long.

Having breathable air and clean water is a good thing. Having tons of carbon dioxide locked up in plants is a good thing.

As has been said several times - hemp does not equal smokeable dope. The type used for making British bank notes, for instance doesn't have the chemical in it to give a high. I repeat this for the slow of understanding.

A huge industry dedicated to extracting gas and oil, (and spoiling so much water as it does so), and selling it's products for vast amounts of money to be used in oh so many ways - could that ever be a good thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 03:49 AM

But what it has to do with climate change is beyond me so


the connection is (apart from thread drift) is that people choose their own pet route to climate re-habilitation by championing their pet hobby.
Carefully ignoring that other constituents can be utilised in precicely the same methodology. And smoking dope has another side effect - blinkers.

The only way the world will truly wake up to the problem is when it hits our pockets. In cashless societies starvation is the motivator.

The ultimate problem with global warming, may very well turn out to be water resources. Think Middle East or Darfur, they tell you it is religious or ethnic but how much water do they have? Why is Isreal still occupying the Golan heights? And drilling them to send water eastwards?
Population growth only exacerbates this. Why does London & SE England want more water from 100 miles away? Because they are wedded to the wages there - and don't see that the area can't support the numbers properly. Make 'em pay the correct price and reality will bite.
I was told 15 years ago that LA tap water was more expensive than petrol. Even if that was an exageration, but the resident didn't deny it. And what is the Californian "crisis talk" of this year?

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 05:37 AM

From further up the thread: "Almost all of who expect "science" will find a way. Yea. Sure!"

Yes, I hear this all the time. Whenever I try to discuss climate change or environmental degradation with certain friends of mine, they always tell me not to worry because scientists will sort it out. For a start, this is expressing blind faith in "science" - and science doesn't do faith!Second, scientists have been warning us for decades now that we're on a slippery slope.

An image always comes into my head of a man who is walking down the street and notices a school on fire (a fire caused by the ignorance and stupidity of the parents and teachers). The man shouts "fire!!" - but everyone ignores him. The blaze gets more intense and he again shouts "FIRE!!!" as loud as he can. This time, one of the parents turns round to him and says, "well, you spotted the fire, so it's your responsibility to put it out!"

Actually, it's EVERYONE'S responsibility to put the fire out!

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 06:41 AM

Rumncoke. Please can you explain the differences between planting trees to cut down and make paper and planting hemp to cut down and make paper ?

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 07:30 AM

The guy on Fox News has his own, special take:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/18/greg-gutfeld-pope-francis_n_7616156.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Rumncoke
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 08:01 AM

Time, mostly, manpower and the cost to process.

You plant hemp and step back before the sprout hits you in the eye. You have a harvest the same year.

plant a tree and it needs to be looked after - moved from nursery to where it will be for the next 20 years or more. Time for pests to develop or governments change, it might burn, die from drought - they are a big investment. You could die before you get a return from growing trees.

Meanwhile the hemp comes up every year and it is a great tall stem - 3 or 4 metres, loads of raw materials for little investment of time and resources.

By the way, cotton is another poor choice as it requires pesticides, fertiliser and lots of water. Cotton growing causes inland seas to dry up in places closer to the equator than you can grow hemp.

To harvest hemp you tug it out of the ground, (wear gloves) tie it in bundles, put it over your shoulder and carry it to the cart. You don't need to do much to it to get the fibre, and the other parts of the plant are useful too. You can crush the seed, it makes great food for animals you might like to eat, it gives oil when you crush it - that is a good thing.
You can then grow things in the soil you just cleared. Hemp puts the soil in great condition and that is a good thing too.

It is easy to grow and use hemp - it would make a big difference if it wasn't illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 08:13 PM

In the UK hemp cultivation needs a government licence, and they make sure the stuff that's grown isn't much use for health and recreational purposes, but given that rather daft restriction, it's perfectly legal, and is officially encouraged.

You can buy hemp milk in supermarkets, for example.
......

Pope Francis's encyclical about ecology, and injustice is online here for free, all 180 pages - http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/269022079/Laudato-Si-English-Translation

Well worth reading attentively. Very easy to see why Fox variety Americans might feel hostile to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 07:14 AM

An interesting article on the impact of paper on forests, discussing alternatives, which also have other impacts:


http://www.triplepundit.com/2013/09/wheat-straw-paper-save-forests/

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 07:19 AM

Oops, article below

Paper 

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 07:37 AM

"When a company proves itself committed to sustainability, customers are more loyal and more vocal in support of that company's actions. "

If it were so. The success of China's industries in the international marketplace and its poor envirinmental record would lead one to think otherwise.


collaborative conservation  

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 07:26 PM

Being incredibly cheap is the significant factor in achieving that. And that's got precious little to do with having a poor environmental reccord.

There's every reason to anticipate that China's environmental record could quite rapidly change for the better, with the cost of production staying low.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 09:18 PM

"Every reason"?

And just how exactly do you get to that broad assumption? Kindly share your information on this enlightening perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 09:42 PM

http://www.vanishingbees.com/

My mothers bees received 1st prize for their honey in NYS. The next spring after systemic goucho and poncho were applied in the area she was depressed that all her bees had died over the winter.

This documentary is the best hope w finally know what caused an is causing total bee collapse. France has shown us a cure.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 09:46 PM

China's industries in the international marketplace and its poor envirinmental record

Not to mention the U.S. of A's abysmal environmental record vis a vis fossil fuel use & etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 15 - 03:01 AM

Why do I make "that broad assumption"? Basically because the factors that stop America from responding rationally to climate change - powerful lobby's opposed to such a response, working on public opinion - don't have the same force in China.

We can hope so, anyway. And there's nothing much we can do about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 15 - 06:47 AM

OK, I understand hope-that's a bit different, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 04:55 AM

"The success of China's industries in the international marketplace and its poor envirinmental record would lead one to think otherwise."

China is in the process of developing renewables on a scale that dwarfs the western economies, and with good reason. Whilst western countries are held back by scientifically illiterate politicians and corporate self-interest China has ploughed investment into creating a huge industry based around renewable energy. What they are doing is making themselves world leaders in the design and manufacture of renewables, and their industries will reap the not inconsiderable benefits of free energy long before we've caught up.

The myopic, idealistic idiocy of western governments is typified by the UK, who have just stopped subsidies for onshore wind basically because some people don't like the look of the turbines. This sort of retrogressive policy (began by Gordon Brown when the let world leader of turbine design and manufacture, GKN on the Isle of Wight, go to the wall rather than bail them out for the short term) will consign us to the backwater of modern renewable technology.

This is, apparently, fine with the electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 06:30 AM

Well, Stu, generally I agree with everything you say, but I disagree vehemently on this. I may be biased, but I live in a sparsely-populated county that probably contributes negligibly to global warming in the overall scheme of things. Yet the whole place is plastered with a rash of these ugly wind turbines, and for what? For farmers to sit on their arses getting £40000 per annum per turbine. For us all to feel better because we're using green energy, instead of less energy. So that badly-designed commercial buildings in our cities can keep their air-conditioning on all the time. They are ugly and they are inefficient. They do not work when the wind isn't blowing and they frequently have to be turned off for fear of overloading the grid at other times. It's the technology of my 1950s kiddies' bike dynamo. In a hundred years' time, if there's anyone still here (and if there is anyone left they'll be using nuclear power), they'll be looking back at old photos of these lumbering idiocies and laughing their heads off.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 07:00 AM

Steve: Farmers are subsidised on a fair number of things, not just wind turbines.

The fact the infrastructure is not up to snuff when it comes to coping with the amount of electricity generated on windy days is part of the problem of course, but I'm willing to bet that whilst the energy companies remain unregulated and the hydrocarbon lobby hold sway it will remain thus.

Turbines aren't ideal, but what is? As technology advances wind turbines will become obsolete (they already are as bladeless wind turbines are developed) burt we have to be in a position to develop that technology, which we're not.

The whole of the country is altered by the hand of man; to cite 'ugliness' as a reason not to develop green energy is pure nimbyism. The tories are about to start fracking as the oil companies prepare to plunder the arctic for deepwater oil; a disaster waiting to happen. Meanwhile, we rely on Gazprom and other crooks to give us our hydrocarbon fix which is unsustainable, polluting and killing us all slowly.

Wind power is part of the transition from old to new forms of power generation. It isn't easy, perhaps not pretty but the alternative is far, far worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 07:05 AM

Talking about bike dynamos my mate and I often come up with brilliant green energy ideas. For some reason this is often late on and in the pub. Can't think why...

Anyway.

Brilliant idea 1. A band all the way round the equator with stationary satellites connected to it via long arms with a wheel at the end. Perfect dynamo using the rotation of the earth :-)

Brilliant idea 2. Clockwork cars. Wind turbines along all motorways to which you can connect the cars to wind them up. Generate energy AND reduce car emissions at a stroke.

Can't think why no-one takes us up on them ;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 07:28 AM

They are ugly, Stu, but that is not my main focus. As for nimbyism, well I can't see any turbines from my house or its vicinity as it happens, and am unlikely ever to do so by dint of geographical good fortune. Cornwall is a beautiful place that is being despoiled because of the energy demands of big cities. Fifty years ago we opened windows in summer. Now we have vast air-conditioning systems that cost more to keep hermetically-sealed buildings cool in summer than it does to heat them in winter. But we can feel good about that profligate waste of energy because two hundred miles away thousands of Westcountry wind turbines are not only producing "green energy" (ha!) but are also making already-rich landowners, friends of the City, even richer. It's a scam of the highest order, Stu. I mean, why don't we just go totally wind and smother the Lake District, Snowdonia, the Highlands and Islands and the Mourne Mountains with turbines? Degrading all our finest landscapes is surely a small price to pay, and the corporate types won't have to worry because they won't see them from their office towers and they can rest easy because their energy-guzzling climate control systems will all be green!

Surely you can see the madness...?

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 07:31 AM

Your ideas are no more mad than smothering the nation with turbines and solar panels, Dave!

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 07:45 AM

Many of the most vociferous objectors to wind turbines are people who have retired to the country on pensions earned in the city. Back in the city they expected the light to come on when they flicked a switch.

There was a story going round about one rural community who were prepared to accept turbines changing the character of the area if it kept out the incomers - who were changing the character even more and doing most of the objecting.

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 08:09 AM

That is just kneejerk stuff, Guest. You cannot assume that everyone who lives in the country has base motives. What you say is not representative of the people round here that I know. No-one is entitled to have the yah-boo-but-you-still-want-the-lights-to -come-on-don't-you parroted in their faces. Of course we all do, and we managed it for a hundred years before the first turbine ever went up, didn't we. You know as well as I do that it isn't people switching lights on who cause the energy crisis. Here's your issue: if you're ok driving down to Cornwall and seeing hundreds of turbines, are you ok with smothering the whole country with them? After all, with every hilltop and every headland in the country harbouring turbines, we'd never have to worry about energy supply ever again, would we? Yes or no? If no, then which bits do you want to keep beautiful for posterity? And do you really think that a landowner should be paid more per annum for a single turbine, taking up just a few square metres, than a nurse or a teacher? Address the real issues instead of apparently harbouring jealousy about rural dwellers (who have the lowest pay, the least secure employment, the highest council taxes, the poorest public transport, the lousiest affordable housing situation, the steepest fuel costs and the worst health provision in the country, by the way...)

Subject: RE: BS: Food for thought on climate change
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 08:16 AM

""Rising levels of air pollution have accompanied three decades of phenomenal economic growth in China. Coal-burning factories and vehicle emissions fouling the air in the country's major industrial and population centers have made deteriorating air quality a leading health concern that until relatively recently had been downplayed or dismissed by Chinese government authorities. Key announcements in the past year, however, have signaled a significant shift as the central government has begun to tackle the difficult question of how to reduce pollutants without slowing down economic growth.""




China's Off-the-Chart Air Pollution: Why It Matters 



""China's efforts to improve urban air quality are often viewed as a helper for fighting climate change, but a new joint China-U.S. study says otherwise.""


Air quality and carbon emissions