BS: Red Rags and Bulls-London Tube shutdown

Subject: BS: Red Rags and Bulls
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 08 Jul 15 - 03:50 PM

London is currently in the midst of a total shutdown of its tube system due to industrial action by all the unions at the same time.

I am not going to go into the merits or otherwise of the action, but what does grate with me is that while I was on a bus tonight an inspect had the audacity to check my travel card.

Bearing in mind the stress that transport users are going through, in my view allowing revenue inspectors to work when the transport service is incapable of providing its services comes across at insensitive and borders on neo-nazi style contempt for the people who pay their wages. If someone hasn't paid their fare these people wouldn't think twice about, and would probably get their jollies from hauling people over the coals, but are also the foist to start whining when they are critised for depriving people on low incomes the means to get to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Red Rags and Bulls
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 15 - 04:22 PM

Have a word with Boris. He'll explain why the inspectors are winding people up.

Subject: RE: BS: Red Rags and Bulls
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Jul 15 - 05:10 PM

Not wishing to upset anyone, but the most likely time that people would try it on is times like this. So the inspect (sic) is there for good reason. And he just wants to see yer Oyster. Or whatever King Boris calls them. He doesn't make judgements on who you are, and is happy if you are kosher.

Yea, yea oysters aren't kosher, but - you know what I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Red Rags and Bulls-London Tube shutdown
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 08 Jul 15 - 05:48 PM

Boris showed today that he doesn't give a **** about transport users, instead of getting off his arse he was more interested in sitting in the Commons for the budget debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Red Rags and Bulls-London Tube shutdown
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jul 15 - 06:58 PM

The inspectors are there because of that unfortunate human failing, cheating. Without inspectors, you'd be paying a lot more for your fare because you would be subsidising the cheats who would feel invulnerable. As for the industrial action, don't condemn it until you've investigated the root cause of it. Industrial relations in the Underground/railway industries are diabolical. It takes two to tango. The fact that you feel inconvenienced by the absence of trains is tough, but it does not necessarily mean that the strikers are the ones at fault. Down to you to look into it before you rush to judgement, I reckon.

Subject: RE: BS: Red Rags and Bulls-London Tube shutdown
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 15 - 04:26 AM

I agree with Steve!

Subject: RE: BS: Red Rags and Bulls-London Tube shutdown
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 15 - 09:58 AM

An inspector asked the girl in from of me for her oyster card.

Oysters, oysters, oysters says she
I've got the finest oysters that ever you did see.

Bet you didn't see that one coming...

When I lived and worked in Brussels it was always said that only tourists paid for their travel. None of the locals seemed to but I was always good lad. Apart from confusing them at the ticket office by saying "Can I have une carte des dix trajet, alsjeblieft"

Subject: RE: BS: Red Rags and Bulls-London Tube shutdown
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 15 - 11:07 AM

The management gave the unions an ultimatum that had to be accepted by 1830pm or it was off the table. It was physically impossible for the unions to get member approval in that time-frame. No real argument who is to blame.

Now if we still had Ken's "Fare's fair" policy everybody would be able to pay their bus fares without problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Red Rags and Bulls-London Tube shutdown
From: Raedwulf
Date: 09 Jul 15 - 11:32 AM

Be fair, Steve. SPB wasn't in any way seeking to comment on the reasons for strike action. I must confess that, whilst I generally have never had much sympathy for unions (the only one I ever joined was because they ran a closed shop), in this particular instance the unions very definitely do seem to have "just cause".

Though, oddly enough, it seems that it may not be the immediate management at fault, but rather Boris (who orders the management around). Let me see if I can find it... Ah, here it is - an open letter on Fb that a friend re-posted. I've no idea who Mick Davey, the author, is, but it makes for interesting reading...

"Dear All my Commuter friends & anyone else who is interested in details of the strike action and dispute between TfL and their staff.

As you know I don't usually comment on my work life as nobody really cares about other people's jobs but due to some friends posting complete bullshit that they've copied and pasted from the media and haven't got the common sense to ask someone who actually knows what they're talking about now leaves me to enlighten you.


This dispute is not about money!

You can expect the usual barrage of total bollox in the media about "Greedy Overpaid Train Drivers" but this dispute has never been about money, It is about protecting work life balance and making sure that change in contracts are negotiated, not just imposed. And it's not only Train drivers that voted for industrial action, it's every grade of staff that works on the Underground network.

Everyone I work with that I know has given the same message, we cannot continue to have more and more weekend and anti-social hours working.
I have never been opposed to Night Tube, but it has to be introduced in a way that is fair; that recognises that staff are human beings with lives and families as well as a job.

The job I signed up to do works 1 week of nights over a 52 week period, sometimes 2 weeks if need be but under new terms I would have to work a minimum of 14 weeks of nights. I have a family, I would like to see them at weekend, shift work already takes a lot of that away. TfL can offer as much as they want, I work to live, not live to work.

TfL could have spent the last three months genuinely discussing how to resolve this dispute. They chose not to. They have not changed their position in any way (until yesterday, keep reading I'll get to that).

If London comes to a halt this week, the people who should be blamed are not those who work hard to keep it moving all year round. It is the directors, and those above them, who simply do not believe that their staff have a right to a reasonable quality of life.

Yesterday's events (Monday 6th July) at ACAS were really quite extraordinary. TfL having failed to change their offer for the last three months, now made a new proposal in the afternoon, but explained that it was "time bound" and would be "withdrawn if its conditions were not accepted by 18.30 this evening" by all four trade unions and industrial action was suspend.

TfL must have been aware that of course it would be impossible for Unions to comply with this ultimatum. Unions would need to properly consider the implications of the proposal and consult with Reps and their Executive Committees. Unions offered to return to ACAS at 12.00 today (Tuesday 7th July) to respond to the proposal but were told that it would be off the table after 18.30 today (Monday).

To be clear, Unions did not rejected the offer. It has been withdrawn because the four Trade Unions were unable to comply with an utterly unrealistic "take it or leave it" ultimatum. It is pointless for Unions to express an opinion on an offer that no longer exists.

This now puts Unions in a position where there is no offer on pay, conditions or Night Tube on the table. It is difficult to believe that TfL are negotiating in good faith. Their offer seems to have been designed, not to resolve the dispute but to be used as a way to blame the Unions for what now seems to be inevitable industrial action.

Union members voted by a record breaking margin for industrial action.

I personally believe that TfL do not want to run a Night Tube service as it will cost them millions, the train and track are maintained to a minimum standard as it is but the Mayor of London announced it before it was ever discussed so they had to push ahead with it. I have a feeling TfL will now say it can't run Night Tube due to the Unions but in reality they actually don't want it.

Strike action will start from 21.30 on Wednesday 8th July.

Thanks for reading x"

Subject: RE: BS: Red Rags and Bulls-London Tube shutdown
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 15 - 01:34 PM

It's a funny thing but it was either a tube or a train strike many years ago that made me realise how biased the media was. It was, of course, reported that it was greedy unions that had brought the network to a standstill. Nothing was ever mentioned about intransigent management or manipulative politicians. That must have been 40 years ago and, sadly, things have got worse since :-(