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BS: Guess what colour he is?
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BS: Guess what colour he is? |
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Subject: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Jul 15 - 10:47 AM http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/08/1400310/-The-devastating-death-of-Monroe-Bird-is-an-indictment-on-all-of-America |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 09 Jul 15 - 01:56 PM Daily Kos |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Bill D Date: 09 Jul 15 - 02:15 PM Yes, his color is relevant to his fate... but the title of the article is hyperbole. "The devastating death of Monroe Bird is an indictment on all of America" Pooh! Leaving aside the grammatical error..(indictments are 'of', not 'on'), the faults are with the guard for lying, at least one insurance company for its taking the word of a lying guard to save $$$$, and possibly the general cultural attitudes of certain courts in Oklahoma. There are stories of neglect and shabby insurance company behavior everywhere... against people of all colors. The fact that people of limited means, which often means people of color, get worse treatment should not mean overgeneralization |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Greg F. Date: 09 Jul 15 - 02:39 PM The fact that people of limited means, which often means people of color, get worse treatment should not mean overgeneralization Nor should it mean ignoring the fact and pretending it doesn't exist, as is the current norm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: JeffB Date: 09 Jul 15 - 05:21 PM After all the other young black men who have been killed by white men in uniforms recently, this is not at all surprising. If I were American I would be deeply depressed, and worried about the standards of those who are supposed to be protecting communities. Another aspect of this case which, from the UK perspective, is incomprehensible is that Monroe could not have the professional care he needed because his insurance company refused cover. At the risk of causing thread creep here - surely people who need life-sustaining care are not simply turned away? Are hospitals really allowed to say "Pay up or die"? I can't believe there is simply no provision for those who find themselves in life-or-death situations without the means to pay all their bills. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Bill D Date: 09 Jul 15 - 08:38 PM "Nor should it mean ignoring the fact and pretending it doesn't exist, as is the current norm." "..as is the current norm." IS another generalization! OF COURSE there is a problem in some areas and OF COURSE the media does an inadequate job of sorting out & publicizing the problem and OF COURSE dealing with all aspects of it would cost someone more time & money than they wish to part with.... but it is still a false picture to suggest that it is still "the norm" in most places & situations. It is totally important to publicize cases like this and to seek corrective action and to sue and punish institutions and to remove officials who allow neglect to happen. But I am SO tired of broad brushes being used to paint "America" as sad & hopeless and & uncaring. --------------------------- Are hospitals really allowed to say "Pay up or die"? It's not usually a matter of "allowing" by hospitals. The hospital treated this man... his insurance company decided that once treated & supposedly stabilized, they were not required to keep him IN a hospital forever. It is still unclear (Google :'Monroe Bird' to see) how his situation changed and the blood clot developed.... but it IS common for people to be sent home when it is a matter of long-term care. Clearly, in this case, he SHOULD have been watched more closely and probably remained in the hospital longer. I've no doubt the doctors & insurance company will disagree, and legal actions seem to be proceeding on that issue. I suspect that if this had happened in, say, Portland Oregon, care would likely have been better. *MY* point is not to defend either the guard who shot him, the hospital, or the stingy insurance company. I simply want to suggest a more reasonable way of describing such incidents. IF there seems to be a more widespread problem, explain how THIS incident fits it. "Guess what color he is." is a biased viewpoint OF a biased situation. In this world today, incidents we'd never have heard about 50 years ago are now spread by blogs, 3-4 different cable channels with different viewpoints, and countless Facebook posts, using language that is designed to be provocative. There are dozens...or hundreds.. of incidents every day that need to be investigated & publicized. Our computer screens & TVs are as full of bad news as we can cope with... but there are GOOD people & institutions everywhere trying to make positive inroads on the problems.... you just seldom hear about them. Picking one and saying it is "an indictment of all America" is ............ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Don Firth Date: 09 Jul 15 - 08:57 PM I concur completely with Bill D. on this. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 09 Jul 15 - 08:59 PM As do I ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Megan L Date: 10 Jul 15 - 02:57 AM So do I and I'm in uk. You find good people and bad people, good practice and bad practice among every group of people in every country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link Date: 10 Jul 15 - 05:14 PM me too tend to agree with bill on this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: akenaton Date: 10 Jul 15 - 05:21 PM Yep me too Bill. Congratulations, now you've got all the "hatemongers" voting for you! :0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Greg F. Date: 10 Jul 15 - 05:29 PM But I am SO tired of broad brushes being used to paint "America" as sad & hopeless and & uncaring. Well, Bill, what about South Carolina |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Jul 15 - 08:29 PM Greg, In America we have South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, a fair-minded Republican whose parents were Sikhs from India. Destroys a lot of stereotypes right there, dontchathink? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Jul 15 - 10:05 PM Fair minded Republican??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Bill D Date: 10 Jul 15 - 10:30 PM Well Greg... what that link shows is what we all know anyway--- there are hateful, stupid people everywhere. There has, as we also all know, been over the years, an excess of hate & racism in areas of the South. I saw it 1st hand in 1964 in Mississippi. The decision to remove that symbol in S.C. stirred up a bunch of 'em. So? Are you making some sort of claim about this? I claim that in another 150 years we will STILL have some who think that way. All we can do is try..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Rapparee Date: 11 Jul 15 - 09:42 AM And racism and sexism and hate don't exist in the UK? I've been there and unless I can't trust my eyes and ears, I find the stench of all three, as well as corporate greed, crime, and all that are included with those, well entrenched. Of course, things could have changed in the last month.... NO nation is immune. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Greg F. Date: 11 Jul 15 - 09:49 AM Destroys a lot of stereotypes right there, dontchathink? No, Joe, it don't. Gov. Haley, bless her, is the exception. You'll note the recist remarks in the article I referenced directed not only at Black folks, but at her Indian heritage, in this wonderful, post-racial America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Greg F. Date: 11 Jul 15 - 09:56 AM Are you making some sort of claim about this? I claim that in another 150 years we will STILL have some who think that way. And I claim that its a disgrace that after the LAST 150 years we still have so many people that think that way. You'd do well to check the growth of neo-Confederate, "Lost Cause" bullshit and white supremecist groups in the U.S. over the last couple of decades. Also the amount of ignorance STILL out there about the Civil War and its causes -- "States' Rights" or "The Gallant Struggle Against Against An Opresive National Government" (sounds contemporary, don't it?) horseshit is still very much with us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Bill D Date: 11 Jul 15 - 11:03 AM My claim is just a prediction about the future...yours is your subjective feeling about the past. We might do something to mitigate the extent of my prediction.... the past cannot be changed. What do you hope to achieve by wallowing in it and shaming some vague entity(s) about 'disgrace'? I am quite aware of the states rights problem, the KKK & others and the deeply embedded idea of 'being ready for the Gallant Struggle ' by collecting stockpiles of guns. I often note those problems AND discuss their relevance and list the possible ways to combat them...... sometimes in way-too-long paragraphs that not many read. I think it is better than short, finger-pointing sound bytes. I am perfectly capable of posting links to the *atrocity of the day*... but I'd rather spend my time trying to make sense of HOW people talk about the problems and clarifying the language & reasoning used. "Guess what colour he is?" was a finger-pointing remark. So is "Well, Bill, what about South Carolina?" Unless one spends some time explicating the links and saying more than "Look at that!", I see little point in bothering. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Megan L Date: 11 Jul 15 - 11:17 AM Each country has its own problems does that make one country better than another? No it just makes them different. I remember my mum telling me when I was little that when someone started shouting about another's faults it was usually to stop others from looking to closely at thiers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Greg F. Date: 11 Jul 15 - 11:21 AM My claim is just a prediction about the future...yours is your subjective feeling about the past. Problem being that the past is very much still with us in the present and unless we come to terms with it and acknowledge it, the past will be perpetuated into the furure. And do check out the Neo-Confederate/Lost Cause BS organizations that have been proliferating. Things are not so much "in the past" as you seem to prefer to think. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Bill D Date: 11 Jul 15 - 11:58 AM WE? *I* have acknowledged it many times. "check out the Neo-Confederate/Lost Cause BS organizations " I have. (and Rachel Maddow & Lawrence O'Donnell make sure I know where they are and what they are doing).I don't think of them as in the past. You make no point about them except that there are some.... unless you want to make a specific point about specific ones and make specific suggestions, you have said nothing new. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Musket Date: 11 Jul 15 - 12:26 PM Good and bad everywhere. The U.S. Health system cocks up, the UK health system cocks up. Bridge is on one of his cross carrying exercises again in repentance for being middle class, posh and privately educated. Mind you, in his defence, bigotry and stereotyping is, you have to admit, far more prevalent in The U.S. Although the recent equality in marriage sort of questions the degree. We still have Northern Ireland to contend with and whether it be race, religion, sexual orientation or just drinking the wrong beer, you are judged in that sorry sad cesspit. I am British but have right of residency in The USA. Despite good friends, good places and good times, I have never even begun to entertain the idea of actually living there though. I'll take our good and bad if it's all the same to you. You are connected by land to Dumbfuckistan and if Clinton fucks up, their theocracy will affect y'all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: Greg F. Date: 11 Jul 15 - 01:01 PM You make no point about them except that there are some.... No, Bill - I make the point that there are LOTS and the number is increasing as jackasses like Pitchfork Ben Trump and the slew of his Republican colleagues spew racist garbage, be it about Blacks (starting with Ron Raygun), Mexicans, or whatever the minority group of the moment happens to be, to whip up support among the Repuglicans "Southern Strategy" constituents. You seem to think - for some inexplicable reason - that things are getting better. Fact is, things are gettng worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Guess what colour he is? From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 11 Jul 15 - 07:52 PM From what I read here both countries have their share of buffoons ! Some people just can't be rescued from self importance . |
