BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Aug 15 - 02:20 PM

I'll say it again, Backwoodsman:

"Backwoodsman, it's largely because you and a number of other Brits here on Mudcat seem to take such perverse satisfaction when Americans have a national problem that many Americans are working hard at trying to solve, and seem to be sitting back, pointing fingers, and smirking.

While you're looking down your noses at Americans, the vast majority of Americans are trying to change the gun situation. You seem disinclined to acknowledge that fact."

And I thought I heard someone break wind-- Oh, no! That was Goofus trying to add his two cents worth . . . poor inarticulate sod.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Aug 15 - 01:58 PM

Go back to sleep, Goofus.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: gnu
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 10:40 PM

Or... just implement reasonable gun laws. But politicians won't do that because they are paid off. You can bang the rocks all day long. They won't do it... $$$ whether you count that in $$$ or votes. We had ALMOST reasonable gun laws in Canuckistan but that got fucked over because SOME of the laws were not reasonable. Now? Well, we are kinda back to square 0.5. I was supportive of most of the gun laws but, if you read SO MANY past threads, against a few of them (and for good reasons). Those few asshole laws destroyed all the good ones in the end.

Classic case of shoot yourself in the foot.

When are the anti-gun nuts gonna wake the fuck up and work with the gun nuts? Oh.. wait... I said the same thing on at least a half dozen gun threads that clocked up to a thousand posts in the Mudcat BS forum before. My bad. I'll just toddle off. Sorry to have bothered you. gnight yet again. I'll check back after another shitload of posts. I must say, not many posts... a gun thread used to draw a far bigger, and more ignorant and arrogant crowd. Sigh... ya can't go home eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 10:24 PM

By the way, I have not yet heard from anyone who has visited the NRA website.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 08:57 PM

Exactly Don.. the solution therefore is to invent a time machine, go back to the late 1700s, and demonstrate an AK-47 and a hand gun with a 30 round magazine to the Founding Fathers with an explanation of what we in the 21st century are up against, and 'suggest' some careful wording for the 2nd amendment.
   Failing that, we ummmm..... pray?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 07:46 PM

At the time the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution, the "arms" that people were allowed—urged—to keep were quite different from arms today.

Firearms—cannon, muskets, pistols—were limited to a single shot, then had to be reloaded. That involved dealing with a powder container, often a powder-horn, a bag of shot, and wadding to hold the powder and shot in place, and manipulating a ramrod. Then you had to prime the pan with gunpowder. I have talked with those who fancy antique firearms and have been told that, if you are really fast and adept, you might be able to reload a flintlock musket or pistol inside a minute.

The first repeating rifles and pistols didn't start appearing until well into the 1800s. The first use of repeating rifles was in the Civil War, and initially, the Navy Colt revolver (five shot) was the precursor of the famous Colt "six gun" carried by your favorite John Wayne-type cowboy hero.   

When the Second Amendment was written, many people depended on the muzzle-loading flintlock musket standing behind the door or hanging over the fireplace for food. And if soldiers were needed, these people were the "Minutemen." In case of war, an army (militia) could be formed quickly, by citizens who could grab their musket, powder-horn, and bag of shot, and be ready for battle in a "minute."

Mass murder with a firearm, like some of the shootings recently, would have been impossible at the time the Second Amendment was written. It needs to be changed, but the National Rifle Association and its wealthy and powerful supporters—including the arms industry, which makes huge profits any time there is a war—has, so far, been successful in blocking the attempts of many of the citizens to make even minor changes in the plethora of laws that have sprung up around the issue. Such as insisting on background checks, including at gun shows, and making private sales illegal.

How about making the clerk who sells a gun without a background check an accessory if the customer later commits murder with the gun? Lots of good ideas. But the trick is to get them past the "gun lobby" and enacted into law.

So it's not the simple matter that our British friends seem to think it is!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,#
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 07:17 PM

The magnitude of the problem and dilemma for people wanting peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 06:35 PM

Tell me that Europeans could quickly resolve any divisive, controversial issue as explosive (no pun intended) as gun ownership and regulation is in the US.

They don't need to. Despite being "culturally diverse, multi-racial, multi-language" and having spent much of the last 220 years fighting one another in various combinations at various times most of them disarmed their civilians decades ago. They don't need militias other than government controlled ones. France and Germany sorted out a far bigger problem between themselves after WW2. You folks don't seem to have got over your civil war yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 05:40 PM

The United States of America is a culturally diverse, multi-racial, multi-language country with a wide range of history.

It is also big. I just did some homework: In sheer size you in Europe could fit

The United Kingdom
Ireland
Italy
France
Germany
Austria
Poland
Luxembourg
Iceland
Portugal
and Switzerland
inside our borders and still have almost 2 million square miles left over.

Now. Tell me that Europeans could quickly resolve any divisive, controversial issue as explosive (no pun intended) as gun ownership and regulation is in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 04:40 PM

Ah, I found the official NRA website: http://home.nra.org/

Enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 04:28 PM

Ah, but the heads may be filled with rocks, so no diff.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,#
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 04:04 PM

Sounds to me like you folks aren't banging rocks together; it's more like you're banging heads together.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 03:43 PM

Richard Bridge, it must have been a good long while since you came to the US on business, because you would most definitely find it different. No black faces except for valets and chamber maids? VERY different today.

It just occurred to me that the way for you chaps to make an actual difference in the USA would be if you went to NRA (National Rifle Association) web sites (they must have some) and engaged them in debate.

Do that and come back and tell us of your experiences. I do wish you the BEST of luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 03:26 PM

So now we've descended to name-calling, Backwoodsman? The tends to indicate that I hit a nerve....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 02:48 PM

Well, on the subject of the monarchy, Miss Piggy has been a diligent and effective guardian of the constitution for a goodly number of years - which is more than one can say of many of our politicians and indeed more than one can say for many US politicians with the highly politicised shenanigans about the appointment of judges to SCOTUS. And although Big Ears can be a bit of a twerp, some of his favourite topics are good ones - human scale architecture - global warming (although he looks a tit when he takes a helicopter 68 miles to play polo) - the malign influence of vulgar money in historic settings. Anybody who drives a Lagonda cannot be all bad!

Oh, and on the subject of racial discrimination, yes, there is systemic racism still here in the UK - but much less than I saw on business trips to the USA when I was still seriously copyright lawyering. No black faces apart from parking valets and chambermaids. Non-whites (bad expression but useful) are underrepresented here in positions of influence, and some of those in positions of influence are not good ambassadors for the UK communities descended from their progenitors, but I've been spending a lot of time over the last two years (gosh, is it that long?) maybe on average two days a week, in places and with friends where I am the only or nearly the only oyinbo and it gives me a chance to compare what I see with what is felt, and I'd be pretty confident that it is petty racism here that irks - not the risk of death. It is the over-representation of BME people in prison - but to only about half the extent of the USA. It is the over-reaction of authority to assertiveness - I get away with being quite stroppy, but my G/F gets an adverse reaction from authority unless she is careful (careful to an extent that can frustrate me) - but she does not get arrested on trumped up charges nor does she get shot.

I've heard young Afrikans in the social circle of my friends saying "Road man will get him" - but it hasn't happened yet, and although I still can't dance I've happily been referred to as "this black white man" for my enjoyment of many types of music.

I think that apart from in the worlds of UKRAP and Duvid Scumeron the UK is making progress.

But back to the home of the brave and land of the free (which is neither).

You have widespread racism about POTUS. You have primitive religion. There's some of that in the UK but not all that much. You have some Afrikan plutocrats represented in the Republican party, but how many African-Americans and Asian-Americans have you got in the senate and congress (and would you like to take Keith Vaz and Priti Patel and Baroness Warsi please?)

Yes. I think that despite the UK's abysmal colonial record (but bear in mind that Benin was the centre of an African slave trade before the UK destroyed that country) and despite the eventual failure of our attempt to conquer Ireland (started in the 1300s-ish) we have not practised systematic torture since the abolition of the process called "peine forte et dure", we have since before WWII been generally (apart from Korea) reducing, not increasing our wars of attempted conquest (sorry Iraq, sorry Libya - but the USA was more to blame there than we were). We provide more support for Palestine from Israeli oppression. Yes. I think some moral superiority is justified.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 02:36 PM

Ok... you get it.... but then you say:

"...the gun-worshippers, and how ridiculous it is for those people to claim that a 200 year old amendment to the constitution cannot, under any circumstances, itself be amended."


They don't WANT it amended! If it was amended, they 'might' have to give up a gun or two. The NRA doesn't WANT it amended... the business model of them and the weapons marketers is to keep the ambiguous wording from 200 years ago. It is very hard to tell whether they 'believe' that the wording is clear or, as I and many others comprehend, that a point about defense from 1789 makes little sense in the 21st century...or whether they simply are happy to lie thru their teeth about how 'clear' it is. And as long as we still have a virtual conservative majority on the Supreme Court, individual cases will be interpreted in favor of the status quo, and as long as we still have each state able to set laws to suit the gun nuts, no amendment is likely to pass. And to limit "states rights" would require another amendment, which would be even less likely to pass.
   We will keep chipping away at it all and hoping a few voting laws and general public outrage will gradually allow some mitigation.... and hope that background checks, mental health evaluations and heavy penalties will help. I don't hold my breath, 'cause I don't look good in blue....

   You are correct... " It's pointless us kicking each other to death here.".. but you can bet that more "rock banging" comments and their equivalent will get a response. Tell Bridge & Musket...hmmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 02:28 PM

Well, whoever commented recently that Mudcat has changed mustn't have looked in the BS section.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 02:23 PM

"..do something positive to make their society somewhere civilised people might enjoy living..."

Yep, just like your country did to "civilize" the peoples of North America, Africa, India, etc., etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 02:22 PM

Incidentally, thank you for posting that link. The article brings out a lot of facts that are generally ignored in discussions of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 02:07 PM

I think it's because you've made it personal.

Perhaps you don't intend it that way, but when you say " why do you always take it so personally" it gives away the fact that you are repeatedly expressing your frustration about the same issues--keep in mind that when you post here, you're not addressing the American Public, American elected officials, American Media, the NRA, or whoever, you're just hammering awaay at the same small group of people, most of whom share the same astonishment that you do, with the small addition that we live with the consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 01:46 PM

Bill, Ebbie, for fuck's sake, I FUCKIN' GET IT! What don't you understand about that?
We're on the same side, but you keep rabbiting on about 'America Bashing' every time we over here say how terrible it is that every effort to make progress in reducing the dreadful toll of gun-deaths seems to be blocked by the gun-worshippers, and how ridiculous it is for those people to claim that a 200 year old amendment to the constitution cannot, under any circumstances, itself be amended.

We agree, something needs doing. It's pointless us kicking each other to death here. Let's leave it at that, eh? Pax?

Don - stop being a prick.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 01:31 PM

By the way. I'd hate to be a "wog" living in Great Britain....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 01:29 PM

Don't often agree with you Ebbie, but good post.

The trouble is that most of the Brits who hate America and Americans are blinded by ideology, of course we have diverse views here, Its just that these people try their very best to silence anything they don't agree with.
The gun issue brands all Yanks as "Rock Bangers" in their tiny minds

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 01:28 PM

Backwoodsman, it's largely because you and a number of other Brits here on Mudcat seem to take such perverse satisfaction when Americans have a national problem that many Americans are working hard at trying to solve, and seem to be sitting back, pointing fingers, and smirking.

While you're looking down your noses at Americans, the vast majority of Americans are trying to change the gun situation. You seem disinclined to acknowledge that fact.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 12:59 PM

People who have never traveled the length and breadth of the United States may not recognize the complexities and diverseness of this vast land.

Yes. In a large city I imagine one might have a violent act happen within one's view- isn't the same thing true of London versus what one would expect in the hinterlands? Same thing is true here. Which is why when something horrendous happens in one of our backwaters people express such astonishment.

Because the astonishment is real. Meaning that normal life for most of us is sweet and predictable, based on one's own family and community. A place where distant government makes scarcely a ripple in our everyday life.

Everyday life for most of us consists of jobs we may complain of but go to anyway, families that bicker and celebrate and grow, schools that we suspect are not teaching our children everything they need to know and some of us think they are teaching things they should not, local governments that irritate us and that we sometimes despise but other times support and defend.

Isn't that pretty much true of where you live?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 12:40 PM

You started it, Bill - YOU raised the subject of how you can explain to us how to end 'racial tensions' and solve the 'problems of the monarchy', as though you've already got racial problems and issues with executive corruption sorted out. I merely responded to those, nothing to do with your nation's homicidal tendencies.

Once again, as you didn't get it the other times I said it, we understand it's not easy! Nobody's knocking you and your kind, Bill - we understand that you and others work hard towards dealing with the gun issue - why do you always take it so personally when we, who live in a virtually gun-free society, express our astonishment at the apparent acceptance by American society of the dreadful consequences of universal gun-ownership there?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 12:10 PM

Backwoodsman...You and Bridge and Musket... and occasionally others... are substituting slogans and finger-pointing for useful comments.

"..do something positive to make their society somewhere civilised people might enjoy living..."

". But WTF happened to the 'Yes We Can' nation.."

You ignore detailed explanations of history and demography and legal structure, then just change the subject to "It's terrible... why don't you all just DO something?"

I didn't SAY that problems with the monarchy are **equal** to anything specific.. I merely drew an analogy to awkward issues. And whether or not some administrations do stupid things for selfish reasons (of course they have!) is NOT relevant to the gun problem! And sexual misadventures are **totally irrelevant**! You make no points just throwing in random laundry lists of errors about anything under the sun.

...and you wonder why some of us get P.O.d over continuous "America bashing" from those who can't comprehend the difference between important issues and minor issues and can't...or just won't... understand what issues HAVE direct & obvious solutions.

What is there about Catch-22 regarding guns that you don't understand?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 09:47 AM

"You help us solve it and we'll explain to you how to end racial tensions AND end all the problems of the monarchy!"

And of course the US doesn't have racial tensions, does it? Or are the riots over cops murdering people for DWB all a figment of our imaginations here?

And our 'problems of the monarchy' are very minor compared with your problems of presidents who start illegal wars on the basis of lies, simply to benefit themselves and their buddies in the oil and construction industries, and presidents who get caught with their dicks down the throats of young interns and......the list goes on!!

We know it's complex and difiicult. But WTF happened to the 'Yes We Can' nation that we admired so much fifty or so years ago - it's morphed into the 'Ah but it's too difficult' nation, AFAICS.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,Musket listening
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 03:05 AM

Can't hear the bang from the rocks yet.

I can hear the bang from the guns, sadly.

I smile at the hypocrisy of those who shout USA! USA! when something (rarely) positive is said about their fucked up country but when you suggest they do something positive to make their society somewhere civilised people might enjoy living, they say we don't understand, that national laws to help people live better lives are impossible to enact.

Rather pathetic really.

Meanwhile, as The Empire State Building displays a beamed photo of Cecil the lion, I notice a few prominent black commentators in newspapers have advised young black people to dress up as lions. That way, if police murder them, people might just give a fuck.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 02:54 AM

I was reading comments on the 2nd Amendment on one blog or another and I didn't comment until one fine fella quoted the Amendment thusly: "A well-equipped militia..." Sheesh. I immediately corrected his statement; I didn't want some other ignoramus coming along and thinking that's what the thing says.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Aug 15 - 02:39 AM

Don, I'll take any number of sore thumbs over one kid shot to death.

http://gunwars.news21.com/2014/at-least-28000-children-and-teens-were-killed-by-guns-over-an-11-year-period/

And you tell Brits to keep banging the rocks together? Motes and beams, my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 07:21 PM

In other words, you've got nuthin'.

The problem is not as simple as some people would like to think it is. The gun freaks essentially have the law--an archaic clause in the Constitution, which made perfect sense at the time it was written--on their side. Changing the Constitution by amendment was deliberately made complex and difficult to prevent possible frivolous changes.

It's easier to think that Americans--all Americans--are just a bunch of ignorant savages. Makes one feel better about the irrationalities within one's own society....

Don Firth

By they way, while you're banging the rocks together, watch out for your thumbs!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 06:18 PM

BWM - agreed again. Yanks - no guns=no shooting of people. Keep banging the rocks together.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 05:51 PM

" I do not understand the mentality of a nation that meekly accepts this kind of incident..."

Again... you have not framed the point quite right. A **nation** does not have a 'mentality'. Of course it is hard to accept that the damned killings go on & on... but "we don't need guns because our government is man-enough to keep strong control on gun-ownership," does not explain WHY the problem persists! Somehow, even with all good reason & intentions, you cannot take in the multi-faceted Catch-22 squared that we are dealing with.

The 'government' is bound by the Constitution. The Constitution is interpreted by the Supreme Court. It can only be changed by an amendment. An amendment needs to be introduced by some member(s) of Congress...or by a Constitutional Convention

Either of these require VOTES...first IN Congress, then by the states to ratify any amendment that does manage to pass. This can take years, and requires 3/4 of the states -38 states:

"To become an operative part of the Constitution, an amendment, whether proposed by Congress or a national Constitutional Convention, must be ratified by either:
The legislatures of three-fourths (at present 38) of the states;

OR
State ratifying conventions in three-fourths (at present 38) of the states.

"Congress has specified the state legislature ratification method for all but one amendment. The ratifying convention method was used for the Twenty-first Amendment, which became part of the Constitution in 1933.

Since the turn of the 20th century, amendment proposals sent to the states for ratification have generally contained a seven year ratification deadline, either in the body of the amendment or in the resolving clause of the joint resolution proposing it."


IN THE MEANTIME the NRA and all the nuts are throwing $$$$$ and/or threatening to start shooting MORE people with the guns they already have!

I suppose that IF the meek people who do NOT like guns were to GET guns, and our cowardly government which is already awash with supporters of the NRA, were to unleash the army... which is largely composed OF those who DO like guns... were to band together and start another Civil War, they could eventually quash the NRA-- proving, in the process to the gun nuts that they were right all along about having their traditional 'rights' usurped, we 'might' ...sort of... get some measure of control over firearms. Such an interesting 'victory'....

Solving our gun problem is as deep and complex as bringing peace to the Middle East or sorting out the Russian/Balkans disputes. You MUST understand that there are hundreds of thousands willing to use the many guns they already have to prevent any aspect of the government controlling those guns! It is as close to genetic as it can be! It is like religion... and indeed in many minds, it has been connected TO religion. "We God-fearing Christians came this country to escape tyranny! And we won't submit to having the 'rights' were were given in 1789 taken away!"

Again... it is a Catch-22³

You help us solve it and we'll explain to you how to end racial tensions AND end all the problems of the monarchy! Deal?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 01:46 PM

Fell? FEEL!

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 01:45 PM

Oh, I understand, Bill - probably more than you realise.

But the frequency with which we hear the old bollocks about 'guns don't kill people', and 'self defence', and all the other horse-shit these people come out with, persuades me that they don't understand that the only reason they fell they 'need' guns is because they, and pretty well everybody else, have them.

Further up the thread, some gun-nut or other trying to be a clever-shit by bringing up football crowd problems, WW2, the Irish issues etc., as if that somehow justifies US gun-lunacy - the usual red-herrings that bullet-heads use to try to deflect the truth that allowing anyone and everyone to possess guns is the route to madness. The simple fact is that we have an average of 70 gun-deaths per annum with a population of 65 million. Pro-rata that to the U.S. population of 360 million, give or take, and you should have around 390 gun-deaths per annum, whereas you actually have c. 11,000.

We don't have guns to defend ourselves, but we're not being murdered in our thousands - we don't need guns because our government is man-enough to keep strong control on gun-ownership, so people aren't going around with a gun stuffed inside their jackets,mor leaving them lying around in their car's glove-box for the kids to find and shoot one another.

I understand the difficulty you have with the vast number of guns in circulation, and I don't underestimate the difficulties that people like you have in conducting a campaign for the reduction of gun-ownership, and stronger gun controls.

But understanding that doesn't mean that I can't express how appalled I am by the situation over there with respect to firearms, and express horror every time an incident like the one today takes place. And I do not understand the mentality of a nation that meekly accepts this kind of incident as some kind of 'collateral damage' just so that gun-loonies can keep their stupid bang-bangs.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 12:58 PM

" What don't the small-dick gun-nuts understand about that straightforward fact?"

What YOU don't understand is that they DO understand that! Their common 'reasoning' is that because there are already so many guns around...especially among their peers... they think their odds are better if they also have guns. It's a smaller version of the arms race among countries.
Once many peers in certain cultural communities have guns, it becomes a standard way to settle disputes that were once settled by fights. I once read an interview with a kid who had been convicted of a shooting. He just shrugged and explained that having a gun was a quick way to solve a problem-- and you didn't have to be BIG or get beat on (if you were smart & lucky). ... and if you wanted to compete in the drug business, or to rob & steal... a gun became the only way to be...ummm.. efficient at it.
   Yes... it's a circular argument. The more that others have guns, the more that 'they' feel they need guns.
   The same general reasoning is used by the 2nd amendment crowd who "don't trust the government". Why don't they trust the government? Why... because the government is secretly scheming to take away their guns! (It's more complicated than that, but you hear that constantly from the 'Militias'.)
And once so many bad guys...of various types... have guns, many good guys succumb to the idea that they need to 'defend themselves and their families'.....and there are now approximately 4 million AK-47s in private hands in this country. You all wanta come over here and help me take 'em away?

I once knew a guy who carried a .45 and thought he was being "good guy with a gun". We debated everything about weapons- and I once said (tongue in cheek) that I thought we ought to solve the horrors of war by issuing all soldiers a bag of marshmallows which they would throw at each other till one had a certain number of 'hits'... and they were then 'out'... winner was last one standing.
   My friend looked thoughtful for a few seconds, then said: "Yeah... that might be ok for awhile... but then some bastard like ME would come along and put a rock inside each marshmallow, and off we'd go again!"

   He made a certain amount of sense.

Guns ARE a stupid, horrible way to deal with life.... but once they reach critical mass, the common human mindset often kicks in that "I'd better be prepared". There are many arguments against that sort of reasoning, but the NRA and their $$$$$$ promote it constantly, and Congress runs on $$$$ from lobbyists.

Right now, the BEST we can hope for is small gains in background checks and campaigns by those of us who remain semi-sane to pass step-by-step laws to curtail ammunition sales and the worse types of guns.............we are banging small rocks at anyone who will listen.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,#
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 11:44 AM

"What don't the small-dick gun-nuts understand about that straightforward fact?"

They haven't been taught to. People perceive guns to be the answer to a question that never gets asked, and when the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 11:38 AM

True, Leeneia.

But if there hadn't been a gun around, no matter how stupid the parents were, nobody could have been shot. What don't the small-dick gun-nuts understand about that straightforward fact?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 11:10 AM

Sure, guns are a problem, and more guns are a worse problem. But the other big problem (as shown by the story from Detroit) is the ever-increasing stupidity level.

That 11-year-old probably had a male parent who was planted in front of a TV or video game at a young age. By age, twelve that boy was probably on the streets, out with buddies, or playing soccer, and never had the chance to learn about younger kids. In short, his grasp of real life and real children is pretty slim.

If we don't do something about the stupidity level, kids are going to keep getting killed, one way or another.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 09:28 AM

Just reported on Sky News in the UK - a three-year-old has been shot and killed by an eleven-year-old while they were playing with a gun in a car in Detroit.

Come on, bullet-heads - tell us how more guns will prevent shootings.

Keep banging the.......oh, fuck it, what's the point?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 08:57 PM

It's Hillary.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 07:17 PM

Rap, Well, I can't speak for all the groups, but the Justice Dept. didn't go after the Black Panthers, when they were obstructing voters at some voting places in 2008, nor did they try to 'investigate' or make arrests, for inciting riots at Ferguson, or any of the other places, where the Panthers were stirring people up to riot, and a few other examples...I don't think Obama's 'Justice' Dept., seems to move, in a non-partisan way. IF they were, (and being as this is a 'gun thread'), where is the 'Justice Dept.'s' investigation of Hilary's illegal gun sales to the Syrians, through the Benghazi consulate????? ...from which they're still playing footsie, and trying to hide that from the people?? I wonder if she deleted all THOSE related e-mails... She sure ain't volunteering them to clear her name!!....Sorta reminiscent of Iran/Contra and Mena, Arkansas, while Billy was governor, and the Bush's were running the operation!!!
So let's all look the other way, and then pretend that the NRA is a bigger threat! Maybe if enough fingers are pointed, we can all get caught up in the hysteria d'jour, and not pay attention to history.. nor ever go after the KNOWN felons and traitors!!

Oh no!!! you say, let's all vote for Hilary, because she's a woman, or Obama because he's black.... those certainly are top reasons!!!
If we focus in on that, we can forget that either of them weren't even fit, or experienced enough to run for office......

"By the time a man runs for President, he's no longer fit for the job!'--Adlai Stevenson

GfS

P.S. Watch all the Bernie Sanders supporters come to defense of Hilary...just because she's a woman and a Democrat!
Stick with Bernie.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 01:03 PM

Rap, I read GUEST's post to be an ironic referrence to your comment about the UK in your previous post.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 12:09 PM

Don't be silly. I know many African-Americans, American Indians, Asian-Americans, and others who own firearms and are hardly criminals. In fact, I take it as a personal insult that you would say such a thing and I shan't post to the this thread again.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 02:06 AM

Yes but all the guns are held by criminals.

Just thought I'd point that out...

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 09:12 PM

GfS, how do you know that the Feds and other law enforcement agencies haven't been investigating these groups? Moreover, some of those I cited are historical, not current. I have known members of the BPP, I even sold a shotgun to one way, way back when. It was a bolt action shotgun with a very long barrel; he wanted it for hunting and it wasn't much good for anything else.

There are enough nut groups in the US to satisfy any argument. The UK, of course, doesn't have groups like the British National Party, Combat 18, the UDF, the Real IRA, and so on. Belfast doesn't have Memorial Gardens and murals, and no one found a mortar in a cemetery a couple days ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,Matfelon
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 03:10 AM

"In my opinion, had it not been for the Eagle Squadrons extraordinary skill and valor, we most certainly would have lost the battle of Britain and possibly World War II."

I always nod when I see a hawk,
If you wave they'll think you silly

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 02:47 AM

Somebody hiding behind 'Guest': ".... whilst either can be carried loaded as a penis substitute in a certain less developed country.
Let's hear those rocks."

I think you've confused that with 'getting your rocks off'!...keep bangin'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Guns - keep banging the rocks together
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 02:14 AM

Quoting The Daily Mail and then using it to comment on The UK?

You should get out more.

I'll tell you what the difference is between pistols and rifles. Neither can be carried in The UK (other than cocked and empty certain types of rifles being carried between locked cabinet at home and licenced target range / game keeping etc) whilst either can be carried loaded as a penis substitute in a certain less developed country.

Let's hear those rocks.