BS: E Milliband was unelectable

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:50 PM

I dunno. I just guess I was brought up to think that a discussion should be initiated with some sort of general explanation so that common ground for discussion is established. You know, it might even be healthy for you Brits to go through the exercise of explaining what you're talking about. Then you might actually know what you're talking about, instead of just arguing mindlessly to keep the air circulating.

So, OK, we Americans know about Churchill and Atlee and that nice Tony Brown and horrid Mrs. Thatcher. And we know that there's some guy named Cameron that we can't be sure about. But Miliband, who the heck is Miliband? Heck, even the thread originator can't spell his name....

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:31 PM

You never know who you're talking to around here....

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Raedwulf
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:28 PM

And who do you think you are talking to, mr?

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:26 PM

Google it, Joe. That's what we Brits do to find out about your politicos. Needless to say, we invariably find the exercise to be exceptionally disappointing.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:19 PM

Fine then, don't tell me. Asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Raedwulf
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 08:17 PM

Sorry, Joe, but surely you can understand it's just funny to leave you in ignorance? ;-)

If not, imagine US politics as the three-cornered fight that it hasn't been since... when??? Milliband was the third party. In what has always been supposed to be (well, for 80-odd years, anyway) a two party fight.

You've got Republocrats & Demicons. Or something. We've got Tories AND Labour AND LibDems. LD's don't usually matter worth a damn, but occasionally hold the balance of power. ESM was (allegedly) Labour. But he managed to make himself unelectable, the third party in a two-cornered fight, hence the comments. If you see what I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:51 PM

Please, friends, enlighten us, your American kinfolk. You speak in code, and then deem us ignorant. I guess the subject of the thread is:

Edward Samuel Miliband (born 24 December 1969) is a British Labour Party politician who was the Leader of the Labour Party and Leader of the Opposition between 2010 and 2015. He has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for Doncaster North since 2005 and served in the Cabinet from 2007 to 2010 under Prime Minister Gordon Brown. He and his brother, David Miliband, were the first siblings to sit in the Cabinet simultaneously since Edward and Oliver Stanley in 1938. [Wikipedia]

So, obviously, both Ed and his brother David were electable, but possibly not as Prime Minister.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:48 PM

The problem Good Soldier, is that only a small minority of people see socialism as the answer to society's problems.....Most people would rather keep buying the lottery tickets.
Financial aspiration is as powerful as it is destructive.

As I said on another thread, our best hope is a few small Parties working together using Proportional Representation....long term I'm afraid, don't expect to see it any time soon, but a start is better than carrying on the present charade.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:37 PM

That is true, Musket, but let's face it: nothing emanating from the other three candidates is ever exactly going to set the electorate on fire in a month of Sundays either. It's not as though we're being offered a viable alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:23 PM

Musket,no ,i do not know what you are on about. my point is that we have two leaders of the labour party who failed to win an election and they are trying to point out that someone else is not going to win.
its rather like a team that never scores any goals pontificating on how to score goals.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Musket
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:12 PM

Because according to the newspaper in my hand, they don't have a sense of humour. Ring any bells duck?

I'm an economic migrant myself. On the basis that the counties of The UK north of the border call themselves a separate country and I moved up here for work purposes. Mind you, Musket moved to North Lincolnshire so I should be so lucky.

Steve. You are right in that the more people denigrate Corbyn the stronger he gets, like some Medusa figure. However, Corbyn should note the difference between dislike for porridge politics and liking his ideas. His popularity is the breath of fresh air against two parties you couldn't swipe a credit card between their arses. It is mental leap to assume his ideas could ever convince an electorate.


Torys, not stories in my previous post. It should be obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 05:56 PM

"Still, we could all fuck off to Ireland as economic migrants eh Dick" a baffling statement, is it meant to be a joke?, what makes you think i am an economic migrant.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Musket
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 05:17 PM

It does tend to amuse me when people say who was elected etc. I suppose if you are a member of a party, you can say you were part of electing them.

However, the British people have never ever voted for a Prime Minister. They vote for a party and their local MP as a member of that party.

I suppose we are somewhat Presidential in that the personality of the MP leading said party influences your vote, ( I have a lot of time for our local MP, a Tory, but have told him I couldn't vote for his party's manifesto.)

But the fools who keep saying nobody voted for Gordon Brown as Prime Minister are correct but not in the ignorant sense of their presumption.

Milliband wasn't exactly electable, even if you remove all the media silliness over his personality. He failed to combat the Tory tactic of blaming the last Labour government for the economic world downturn, despite Brown receiving accolades internationally for being the world leader who almost single handedly prevented it from getting worse.

Considering the story's voted with the government on each and every economic measure during that time, the only charge that could stick would be selling gold cheap as chancellor and seeing PFI as better than treasury investment in public services. Big cock ups, yes but easily combated. Milliband failed to combat fairy stories, let alone reality.

Dr/Mr Mather isn't logged in to my knowledge. I was looking for him at Whitby if you know better..

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 04:12 PM

There appears to be an undignified element of panic in the Labour Party from everyone on the right (which is everyone to the right of Corbyn :-) ) which is making them come out of the woodwork to brief against Jeremy. This appears to be having the effect of making him all the stronger. It's quite amusing to behold, and is almost certainly going to have at least two unintended consequences: to get him elected, and to increase his stature.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Raedwulf
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 04:11 PM

In the sense that Schweik means it, yes he was, yes he was, yes he is (no need to split hairs, Nigel!). I don't take too much interest in politics, as I'm too cynical to have any faith in any of them. However, Corbyn does strike me as at least believing in a large part of what he propounds. But the UK press will have a field day with him.

You might not like it, but neither Kinnock nor Milliband were elected (and, I must admit, I did laugh when Balls was unelected, but that's another matter). Corbyn won't be either, and if, as seems likely, he becomes Labour leader, I am afraid that Labour make themselves unelectable. I do not express a personal political point of view in saying so; I just think that's the way the UK is.

I appear to be not disagreeing with Probably Mr Mather again. The world Probably ends next week! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 03:52 PM

Corbyn has something to offer politics in that he is opening up from the consensus.

That's far different to being seen by the electorate as fit to run a country in the western economic climate.

Unless Labour eventually put an electable front to the people, we may have a long time of Tory government. Corbyn has an answer for spending money but nothing of interest to say about raising it.

Still, we could all fuck off to Ireland as economic migrants eh Dick?

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:48 PM

kinnock and milliband were unable to get elected to lead the country, so they should shut up, do you understand, nigel parsons, they are hadly competent to lecture about who is electable.

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:34 PM

As a fan of Wallace and Gromit, I'd like to know how they were involved in a "professional hit" on a British politician. Please explain!

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:21 PM

GSS ....Ed was humiliated by the media (Wallace and Gromit, Baconrollgate).....it was a professional hit and he didn't have the self belief to dodge it.
Joining forces with the Tories against Scottish Independence finished him, although to be fair he didn't have many other places to go.

Hope Jeremy makes it for leadership, but the Party will almost certainly split if he does.....the Blairites will start another Social Democracy Party.

The SDEP has a nice "liberal" ring to it?

Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:14 PM

Both Kinnock & Corbyn have been successfully elected, so are clearly 'electable'.
If you mean to imply that, as head of a party, they would not see that party garner a majority, then you should say so.
As far as becoming leader of their own party, yes, Kinnock was elected, and Corbyn looks as if he will be.
If you mean as Prime Minister, then the UK does not hold elections to that post. (Sometimes individual parties may, if they are already in power, and looking for a change of leadership)

Subject: BS: E Milliband was unelectable
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:03 PM

So was Neil Kinnock, these unelectable politicians are trying to tell us Corbyn is unelectable, the blind trying to lead those who can see clearly