BS: BBC bias

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 10:23 AM

I think it is probably time for a beer...

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 10:03 AM

My full OP that thread, which you also misrepresent.

"I thought it about time the forum responded to this atrocity.
I condemn the action of the Syrian government, and China and Russia for supporting and supplying the heavy weapons being used with such indiscriminate abandon.
Mudcat is like UN General Council and agencies.
Israel is attacked at every opportunity while worse criminals, even those next door, get a free ride."

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 09:58 AM

Steve, there was no "wriggling and misrepresentations " in my post.
That is a misrepresentation!
Just actual, copied quotes.

When I started that thread there was not a refugee crisis.
Later (2013) there was and I posted about it, as you have seen.
No one was listening.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 09:26 AM

Well, apart from your twisting and wriggling and misrepresentations at 08.38 am, which everyone can see for themselves and requires no comment from me, you started the Homs thread for the specific purpose of having it back at the people you saw as critics of Israel. Your opening post said, gratuitously, "Israel is attacked at every opportunity while worse criminals, even those next door, get a free ride." That was your agenda, not bleeding heart sympathy for the plight of Syrians. So the thread went the usual way. If people don't respond, or respond negatively to you, it is because you are treated here as having extremely suspicious motives. As in the case of that thread.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 09:00 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 07 May 13 - 03:10 AM

The refugee crisis is a humanitarian catastrophe.
No-one knows what to do.



Again, no reply or response from anyone.
You were not listening.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 08:54 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 04:56 AM

New milestones.
Death toll now put at 70 000.
Refugees now reached one million.
7 000 fleeing Syria every day.



None of you had anything to say about it then.
I was listening.
You were not.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 08:38 AM

I suppose they're all sitting round cosy campfires singing boy scout songs.
If you suppose that you are deranged!

"In the camps they are safe from war". That's all right then.
No. They are safe from the war, but far from all right.
Why do you make statements like that Steve?

You're not listening. Around ten million Syrians have been displaced. Around five million are in tent cities living in terrible conditions.

I do not need to listen to you. I Know!
I was trying to make an issue of this when just one million has been displaced.
See my attempt to get it discussed on the very first Syria thread, started by me.
It was you who was not listening.

The people we see on the move are a tiny part of a massive humanitarian crisis.
Yes. The ones with thousands to pay for the journey.

Around five million are in tent cities living in terrible conditions.

Yes, but they would not be living in terrible conditions if other countries gave as much as Britain.
Far more than any Eu state, second only to US, and in proportion to our GNP more than any country in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 07:58 AM

You're not listening. Around ten million Syrians have been displaced. Around five million are in tent cities living in terrible conditions. The people we see on the move are a tiny part of a massive humanitarian crisis. "In the camps they are safe from war". That's all right then. I suppose they're all sitting round cosy campfires singing boy scout songs.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 07:44 AM

Jim,
Great - stay in the war zone and die where we can't see you and we'll give you some money

Jim, in the camps they are safe from the war.
In making the journey to Europe, unknown hundreds, probably thousands, die where we can't see them.

If all countries sent aid like we do, they would not need to flee the region.

Only about half the migrants are from Syria anyway.
And only 13%women.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 07:07 AM

Jim,
It has been calculated that unless evictions are not stopped to make room for Israeli settlers, and unless reparation is not paid for the damage done by last years invasion, Gaza will no longer be viable for occupation by the Palestinians....

You did say it, and Joe queried it too.
You chose not to respond.

You now acknowledge that it is not true.
Thank you.

Steve,
You think that diverting a bit of our aid budget to make Cameron look tough on immigration is going to solve this,

I do not think that.
Solving it is beyond our grasp.
Moving the population is not a solution either.

The EU (left and right wing governments) recognise that helping the refugees in the region while working to make the place safe again is the best that can be done.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:53 AM

The Pope has the common touch too, Al, but that doesn't stop him from being the head of an organisation with some very nasty policies.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:50 AM

That's just it. The EU's pathetic response to this crisis means that millions either have to stay in Syria, though displaced (five million and rocketing) or in the permanent tent cities from hell just across the borders in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and, for Christ's sake, Iraq (another five million and rocketing). The ones we see on the move and who make the uncomfortable news headlines are the tiny tip of a massive iceberg. You really haven't got your head round this, have you, Keith? You think that diverting a bit of our aid budget to make Cameron look tough on immigration is going to solve this, do you? Pigs might fly, Keith (I bet Cameron wishes now that one of his had done).

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:40 AM

i think to be honest Jim, there has always been this sort of odd miscegnation between lowly sections of british society with right wing organisations...our version of the white trash phenomenon.

the difference is in england we have quite a few second generation immigrants involved in setups like UKIP.

i guess, but i don't know, the leaders of all our political parties are a bit 'from another planet' socially. the 'bloke-iness' of Farage seems very effective. he has 'the common touch'.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:27 AM

"It was not true, and you ignored Joe questioning it."
I did not suggest there were evictions in Gaza - I coupled the ongoing evictions in Israel with the destruction of Gaza by the Isreali regime - if you read the links that I posted (break a lifetime habit), you will see that is exactly what they say.
If the Israelis succeed, they will have ethnically cleansed Arabs from the entire area and not just Israel.
Do not accuse me of falsehoods, read what I submitted in their entirety and not just the bits that suit your support for a terrorist state.
"The EU have agreed to send aid to Syrian refugees in the region and to discourage migration to Europe."
Great - stay in the war zone and die where we can't see you and we'll give you some money
"That has been Britain's policy all along."
Of course it has - don't want those nasty foreigners over here taking our jobs and houses.
At least we won't have pictures of drowned children cluttering up our nice newspapers.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:02 AM

The EU have agreed to send aid to Syrian refugees in the region and to discourage migration to Europe.
That has been Britain's policy all along.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 04:53 AM

Jim,
Yesterday, (22 Sep 15 - 08:18 PM ) you posted about Israel evictions in Gaza.

It was not true, and you ignored Joe questioning it.
Was it a deliberate lie, or did you believe it?
If you believed it, was if just ignorance of the situation in the region, or were you duped by all the lies on the anti-semite and anti-Israel sites?

Anyway, you should explain putting a falsehood on the forum.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:19 PM

"All REAL socialists make sure they get their priorities right."
You have yet to say what yours are - which, I think, sums up your socialism.
Ypu have been asked to explain how your bizarre ideas equate with any existing form of socialism and resort to name-calling - your silence speaks volumes.
One more try eh - it's a reasonable request?
How do you define your socialism - and how do you square it with your support for extremist right-wing groups like Ukip, and the non-socialist SNP?
Game, set and match, I think.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: GUEST,big al
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 07:45 PM

well its too bleeding hi tech for the present gang of charlies to produce as good knives and forks Terry.

Anyway i'd take Yorkshire Yankee's husbands word for it - he was a metallurgist at Sheffield University.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 06:58 PM

Stop annoying the nurse Steve, dry in up yourself you dirty dog.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 06:11 PM

Nurse...

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:33 PM

All REAL socialists make sure they get their priorities right.
You muppets have it arse for elbow.

Didn't you notice what that nice Mr Blair got up to in the name of Labour?.....The whole Party is rotten, eighty per cent of them would stab Mr Corbyn in the back to save their "liberal" hides.

Didn't you see the elder statesman Straw begging for money, he would sell his fucking Granny......If he's that bad what are the underlings like?....They are not one whit better than the Tories, just less honest.
Just like you pair of frauds.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 01:24 PM

Amen to all that. Let's face it, akenaton. If you're a socialist I'm the Queen of Sheba.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 01:05 PM

""trickle down socialists" like Jim and Steve,"
Don't you dare label my socialism as anything when I have at no time mentioned what it is.
I believe a socialist system would very much improve the lot of Britain - but I will never live to see it and when it does happen, it will be a very bloody, much resisted affair.
What we have been discussing is no winning socialism for Britain or anywhere, but improving the lot of British working people under the existing capitalist system - Corbyn might make that happen, on the other hand, he might be bought off with a company directorship or a seart in the Lords, as have many other 'workers' champions'.
It certainly wont happen by attacking the rights of homosexuals, or supporting one-policy racist parties like Ukip, or pro-capitalist Nationalists like the S.N.P., or setting worker against immigrant, or smearing middle-of-the-road moderates as 'liberals' or do-gooders, or cap-doffing to royalty.
Your contempt for Arabs who would attempt to improve their lot by opposing despotic feudalist is a pretty fair debunking of your claim to being a socialist.
All the socialists I have ever known have regarded themselves as Internationalists and identified with revolutionaries all o#ver the globe, no matter what their nationality, religion (if any) or means of winning a better and fairer life for their people.         
I never met one who opposed immigration, or sneered at womens' rights, or equality of status for homosexuals and other minorities - not one.
I asked you what your definition of Socialism was and where you stood on things like public ownership of the means of production and distribution - I received no reply - how exactly do you define your particular brand of socialism - it's certainly totally alien to anything I've either experienced or read?
How on earth do you come to the conclusion that I or Steve believe or have ever suggested that minority "rights validate a corrupt economic system."
The rights of minorities are essential to any society which describes itself as civilised and an absence of and opposition to those rights is a sure indication of that society being neither civilised or democratic - but those rights alone certainly do not make for a fair and equal society.
We make the best of what we can of the existing situation while working for a better one - we don't sit in our armchairs sneering at those who are happy to work for short-term gains - as you do.
I was an active trades unionists for nearly all of my workinhg life - I didn't for one minute expect it to being revolutionary change by working for decent working conditions and a living wage for me and my mates.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:50 PM

Funny, when I worked in another country, making the control valves used in nuclear power stations, the steel for the top quality valves was specified to be British. Hands on stuff, Terribilis, as well as stock and quality control.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:29 PM

Say goodnight to the folks, Gracie...

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:12 PM

""as they run the capitalist system much more efficiently."

No they don't, they simply give it free reign to do what it wants regardless of the consequences."

That is exactly how capitalism runs most efficiently Stu, took me seventeen years to work that out and another sixty trying to convince my comrades that the "efficiency" was of very little benefit to them or society.......the problem was not the Conservatives, they knew and believed in what they did. It was the "trickle down socialists" like Jim and Steve, people who believe that minority "rights" validate a corrupt economic system.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 09:04 AM

Very dodgy link there, Guest-coward. Anyway, so what? What are you going to do with all the other 11 million who aren't terrorists, just ordinary human beings like me and (possibly) you?

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:58 AM

As long as he doesn't move to Okehampton. Too bloody close to me for comfort.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:28 AM

"Besides I don't think they make pots and pans out of exotic steels"
A wry comment, nothing more, Mr Okehampton.
Your comment on British steel sums up the situation perfectly - poor administration due to it being run down over twenty years for political reasons gave an excellent, world class product the reputation which you and those who ran the industry down describe as "crap"
British Steel, just like the rest of British manufacturing industry, was sacrificed to Mammon on the altar of profit - greed triumphed over quality and the workers who dedicated their lives carried the (probably shoddily made cheaply bought from abroad) can back.
You and yours seem to revel in denigrating British products
Jim Carroll
I take it you know the story of the man named Woodcock who came up on the football pools and changed his name to Okehampton!!

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Stu
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:17 AM

"as they run the capitalist system much more efficiently."

No they don't, they simply give it free reign to do what it wants regardless of the consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:05 AM

scaremongering about IS terrorists embedded among the refugees

PYD: Syrian refugee tripped by Hungarian journalist was member of radical al-Nusra Front

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 07:49 AM

"Take it that's the pots and pans in the galley?" - Jim Carroll

Whoops Troll that's another bad slip, you are giving your identity away. Besides I don't think they make pots and pans out of exotic steels, now the steels required to transport highly corrosive and toxic product is a different matter

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 06:38 AM

"I take it you think "liberalism" or the Labour Party are going to fix that?."
No it isn't, but it might improve things as they are, which is the best we can hpe for as things stand
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you support the Scots Nats; a capitalist-supporting nationalist party?
"Mr" (the deference tickles me!) Farrago certainly had not been 100% right (except politically and you can make that ultra-right) on anything.
His alarmist pronouncements are akin to Eunuch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" rants' - maybe you thing he was right too.
" and almost all I have worked with has been foreign because it was better"
Take it that's the pots and pans in the galley?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 06:33 AM

Well done for outing yourself. Beats me naming names any day. Now tell us what you propose we do about the burgeoning tent cities. Shall we send them electric blankets and some Angel Delight?

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 06:14 AM

Steve, ISIS appear to be well organised and media savvy, it would be a miracle if they had not thought about utilising the evacuation of the Middle East and North Africa to post "sleepers".

I would reckon it is a racing certainty and not "scaremongering"

Mr Farage has been 100% correct so far in his warnings of the effects of unregulated immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 06:04 AM

"In the same way, ruthless employers will use immigration to drive down the wages of the indigenous working population"

I take it you think "liberalism" or the LabourParty are going to fix that?....Vote for capitalism and you get capitalist policies.

The only advantage of having JC leading the party is that it facilitates the job of educating the public as to the true nature of real socialism.

You people live in fairyland, nothing is going to happen quickly or easily......and will mean sacrifices much more severe than we see at present.
If you are unable to accept that, start voting Conservative, as they run the capitalist system much more efficiently.

Trickle down socialists!

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 05:44 AM

An "expert" on Steel am I Bridge? Can't remember ever making that claim so I doubt it but I'll take your word for it if you say so - after all you do pontificate and decree so much. However during the course of my working life I have probably had a great deal more to do with it than you have and almost all I have worked with has been foreign because it was better, was delivered to specification, on time and to budget.

Big Al - who makes the best cutlery is no metric at all to judge any nation's steel industry - it represents a tiny fraction of the market and is very low tech.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 05:23 AM

"There are difficulties too, but mostly born by the poor."
The only reason the poor are forced to bear the burden is that the powers that be refuse to touch the wealthy section of the population and pass it on to those least able to bear it - that is the society that has been created in Britain today.
In the same way, ruthless employers will use immigration to drive down the wages of the indigenous working population.
None of these facts lessens our moral and actual obligation to those seeking refuge and all the crocodile tears about the poor working man doesn't wash away those facts.
Supporters of the present British set-up are supporting the exploitation of the British workers and ducking the human responsibility by turning them against the refugees - that is what scum like Farrago and his crowd are about
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 05:21 AM

I just don't think we've anywhere near got our heads around the inevitable future mass movements of our fellow human beings. At present we seem to be tinkering indecisively around the edges. One thing's for sure. Tens of millions of displaced people living in squalid tent cities will be completely unsustainable. Cameron's diversion of a little bit of our overseas aid budget to keep refugees at bay, and his piffling four thousand refugees per annum, smacks of nothing more than positioning himself for the coming anti-immigration onslaught from the right that is inevitable. We've already had don't-let-the-nasty-foreigners-in Farage scaremongering about IS terrorists embedded among the refugees. As a matter of fact, we've had one such scaremonger posting to that effect on this forum. It's going to be a very different world in a few years' time and we will fail to embrace that at our peril.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 05:09 AM

"No Israeli settlers."
Israeli settlers have been displacing legal Palestinian ones for decades - of course "Israeli settlers"
Overall survey on Palestinian displacement
Amnesty International's report on displacement prior toi last year's bloodbath

"Record number of Palestinians displaced by demolitions as Quartet continues to talk

13 December 2011, 00:00 UTC

Israeli authorities have stepped up unlawful demolitions in the West Bank including East Jerusalem over the past year, displacing a record number of Palestinian families from their homes, an international coalition of 20 leading aid agencies and human rights groups said today. The statement comes as the Middle East Quartet meets in Jerusalem in its latest effort to revive peace talks. The sharp rise in demolitions in 2011 has been accompanied by accelerated expansion of Israeli settlements and an escalation of violence perpetrated by settlers, the groups said. The humanitarian and human rights groups, including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Oxfam International, are calling for the Quartet to hold all parties to the conflict to their international law obligations. The Quartet must, therefore, press the Israeli government to immediately reverse its settlement policies and freeze all demolitions that violate international law. "The increasing rate of settlement expansion and house demolitions is pushing Palestinians to the brink, destroying their livelihoods and prospects for a just and durable peace. There is a growing disconnect between the Quartet talks and the situation on the ground. The Quartet needs to radically revise its approach and show that it can make a real difference to the lives of Palestinians and Israelis." said Jeremy Hobbs, Executive Director, Oxfam International. The evidence of rapidly deteriorating situation on the ground includes:

Doubling the number of people displaced by demolitions: Since the beginning of the year more than 500 Palestinian homes, wells, rainwater harvesting cisterns, and other essential structures have been destroyed in the West Bank including East Jerusalem, displacing more than 1,000 Palestinians, UN figures show. This is more than double the number of people displaced over the same period in 2010, and the highest figure since at least 2005. More than half of those displaced have been children for whom the loss of their home is particularly devastating.Accelerating settlement expansion: Plans for around 4,000 new settler housing units have been approved in East Jerusalem over the past 12 months - the highest number since at least 2006, according to Peace Now. In November, moreover, Israel announced plans to speed up construction of 2,000 new units in the West Bank including East Jerusalem.Sharp increase in settler violence: violent attacks by settlers against Palestinians have escalated by over 50% in 2011 compared to 2010, and by over 160% compared to 2009, the UN reports. 2011 has seen by far the most settler violence since at least 2005. Settlers have also destroyed or damaged nearly 10,000 Palestinian olive and other trees during this year, undermining the livelihoods of hundreds of families. The perpetrators act with virtual impunity, with over 90% of complaints of settler violence closed by the Israeli police without indictment in 2005-2010.Impending threat of forced displacement of Bedouin: Up to 2,300 Bedouin living in the Jerusalem periphery could be forcibly and unlawfully relocated if Israeli authorities follow through with their reported plans in 2012, which would destroy their livelihoods and threaten their traditional way of life. Rural communities in the Jordan Valley are also facing the prospect of further demolitions as settlements continue to expand.
"The Quartet should call ongoing settlement expansion and house demolitions what they are: violations of international humanitarian law that Israel should stop," said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. "Israel's escalating violations show the fundamental failure of the Quartet's approach. It's time for the Quartet to understand that they cannot contribute to achieving a just and durable solution to the conflict without first ensuring respect for international law," said Phillip Luther, Middle East and North Africa Interim Programme Director, Amnesty International. "
The settlement situation from 2014
"On 30 June 2014, according to the Yesha Council, 382,031 Jewish settlers lived in the 121 officially recognised settlements in the West Bank, over 300,000 Israelis lived in settlements in East Jerusalem and over 20,000 lived in settlements in the Golan Heights.[28][29][30] In January 2015 the Israeli Interior Ministry gave figures of 389,250 Israelis living in the West Bank and a further 375,000 Israelis living in East Jerusalem.[31] Settlements range in character from farming communities and frontier villages to urban suburbs and neighborhoods. The four largest settlements, Modi'in Illit, Ma'ale Adumim, Beitar Illit and Ariel, have achieved city status. Ariel has 18,000 residents, while the rest have around 37,000 to 55,500 each."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:54 AM

All those people need houses, schools and hospitals, and there is no-one else going to provide them.

The trouble is Steve that the developed countries can only provide them through economic policies that rely on ripping off the less developed countries. Those people (and the millions from Bangladesh) also need feeding and several developed countries (including the UK) only feed their people by buying food from abroad. Some of it from countries with lots of people who would rather be here and so joining us in ripping-off their own countries.

Bad times ahead indeed. I wonder if one way of making it less bad would be development (and overseas aid) polices that might make some would be economic migrants think that, in the long run, it might be better for their children and grandchildren if they struggled on at home.

Refugees is obvously different and a few million more in Europe probably wouldn't make much difference. My cynical view of Cameron's line of taking them from the camps is that those people are more likely to provide us with cheap labour than the better off and better educated ones who have made their way to Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:39 AM

BBC on UN GAZA report.

"The Gaza Strip will not be "a liveable place" by 2020 unless action is taken to improve basic services in the territory, according to a UN report.
Basic infrastructure "is struggling to keep pace with a growing population", the UN Country Team (UNCT) in the occupied Palestinian territory said.
It estimates Gaza's population will rise from 1.6m to 2.1m by 2020."

"The UN report, "Gaza in 2020: A liveable place?", estimates the territory will need double the number of schools and 800 more hospital beds by 2020, and says it is already suffering from a housing shortage.
The report also says the coastal aquifer, the territory's only natural source of fresh water, may become unusable by 2016."

No Israeli settlers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19391809

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:29 AM

No.
Jim made that up.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:26 AM

Am I not understanding something you're saying, Jim? The government of Israel evicted all Israeli settlers from Gaza in 2005. Are there new Israeli settlements moving into Gaza?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:24 AM

There are many benefits from large scale immigration, mostly for government, employers and the well off.

There are difficulties too, but mostly born by the poor.
Those people the left used to fight for.
They see wages driven down, rents driven up, and work and any kind of housing much harder or impossible to find.

Perhaps I should be more like you people.
It will cause us no hardships and may make our lives even easier, so why should we care?

I thought that was a right wing attitude.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 03:01 AM

Should read
"Gaza will no longer be viable for occupation by the Palestinians by the end of the decade - less than five years from now"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 09:08 PM

And the EU indulges in the sort of tokenism that reminds me of when I were a little lad on Blackpool sands, stopping the tide coming in with a little row of sand castles made with my bucket and spade. I seem to remember having less than partial success. At least that tide went back out again. This one won't. Scary, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 08:18 PM

"Bad times ahead, and we are not ready."
It has been calculated that unless evictions are not stopped to make room for Israeli settlers, and unless reparation is not paid for the damage done by last years invasion, Gaza will no longer be viable for occupation by the Palestinians - another mass exodus of refugees fleeing from a terrorist state - to where?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 08:03 PM

Five million refugees now in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq, some of whom have been there living like animals for years. A similar number are displaced within Syria and many of them would give an eye tooth to get out. This has been a time bomb for years and we have done next to nothing. We can't expect those countries to look after all those people, who are not allowed to work, forever. The Keith-Cameron brigade think that trickling money to keep them in the camps is the answer. Well I don't. It's payback time for the west. We've screwed up their region and seen at least two countries bombed back to the Stone Age. All those people need houses, schools and hospitals, and there is no-one else going to provide them. And we ain't seen nothing yet. Millions more to come from there, and tens of millions more from places such as Bangladesh when rising sea levels (our fault again) flood half their country. Bad times ahead, and we are not ready.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 07:42 PM

"severe lack of housing being an argument against inviting even more people to make the plight and suffering of those desperate for a home even worse."
Some time ago a senior civil servant produced a report on immigrants which pointed out that there was plenty of room for more in Britain and that immigration has always been a great advantage to the country - the only party `to disagree with him publicly was the neo-fascist Nigel Farrago.
The report said that the only area of Britain that was overcrowded was the Greater London area and Home Counties - it also said that a problem with immigration was caused by ruthless employers using the newcomers to drive down wages.
In practical terms there is no reason those fleeing war zones should be allowed into Britain - The West, by pandering to feudal dictators, the West, Britain included, has played a major part in the crisis in the Middle East and the massive refugee crisis - and it continues to support those despots.
It also has a moral obligation to take in refugees - turning them away is equivalent to turning away Holocaust survivors after WW2..
Just as I have never been able to get my head around someone, claiming to be socialist, sneering when the people from feudalist countries try to remove their dictators, I find it equally impossible to understand "Christians" suggesting there is "no room at the inn" - not as bad Christian analogy.
Maybe we need a few more dead children pulled out of the sea to bring home the consequences of our governments' actions and inactions!!
Jim Carroll