please take off those tuners!

Subject: please take off those electronic tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 05:15 PM

One of my new pet hates is the large number of guitar players at folk clubs that leave their electronic tuners attached to the ends of their instruments.

Do you keep the kettle in your hand while you're drinking the mug of tea it just helped to make? Of course not, that kettle's part in the tea-making is over!

So please, take off the tuner before you perform your song. You tuned your guitar already - and yes, it's perfectly tuned! - so what's that tuner doing still stuck on the end of your instrument?

I am a fan of useful technology; and electronic tuners are so much easier to use, and more accurate, than pitch pipes. I use mine all the time.

But a guitar is a real work of art. And to me, leaving a bit of electronic plastic stuck on the end while you're performing a song somehow grates. I know it doesn't affect the sound; but it just looks ugly!

Does anyone else feel the same?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 05:18 PM

I doubt it

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 05:25 PM

Quite agree. I saw one recently that was not only attached but switched on giving a light show and constant indication of what notes were being played and how out of tune they were.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 05:33 PM

yes - remove that ugly tuner and put the old battery operated Hawaiian Hula Dancing Doll back on the headstock.....


or the nodding head dog...

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 05:45 PM

very weird......

we need more tuners - particularly on banjos and violins
in fact, I'd make it compulsory

and some singers - I'd fit them with a tuner, in fact an auto tune wouldn't be a bad idea.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 06:24 PM

Does that mean the capo has to go, too?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 06:27 PM

No, they don't worry me at all - insignificant - but yes, switch them off while not tuning or you'll run your battery down as well as piss off those that don't like 'em.

But what does really annoy me beyond belief is so-alled professional performers who have electronic tuners attached but don't actually use them and then spend valuable quarter hours unsuccessfully tuning by ear - recent painful experience - I'll name no names - still ending up with badly tuned guitar, or giving up completely, ditching the guitar, and singing a cappella. Do they actually know how to USE a tuner?
And that in a set that can only last 55 minutes by order of the management - so we've paid to hear you not tuning your guitar properly for at least a quarter of the time there! RANT, RANT, RANT!!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: fat B****rd
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 06:40 PM

Give me a smoking fag on a string any day. No innuendo intended.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 06:41 PM

I agree, Tattie. There is definitely something to be said for "Having your act ready to go."

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 06:46 PM

Big Al, with violins or fiddles they may have perfectly tuned open strings but it's where they put their fingers that counts!!!!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 08:24 PM

Stuck on the end of an instrument means I know where it is. And tuned instruments can go out of tune, and you don't want to have to go rummaging round in your pocket, mixed up with the junk that accumulates there.

They make instruments these days with built in tuners. Tidier, I suppose. But you could guarantee the battery would run down just when you need it.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 08:44 PM

Well, speaking as a melody player of an instrument with fixed tuning, I bless the day that cheapie tuners for strummers became the norm. No more prats who've "tuned by ear" a quarter bloody tone below concert. Many's the time I felt like tuning their bloody ears with a bunch o' fives. I want tuners everywhere, loud, proud and flashing out their civilised and triumphant messages. Viva!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Bert
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 10:29 PM

Big Al,

and some singers - I'd fit them with a tuner, in fact an auto tune wouldn't be a bad idea.

I want one of those.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 10:39 PM

If the tuner is taken off before performing then it has to be put away or else risk getting lost or broken. This adds an inevitable delay before the performance begins. The guitar could easily get knocked in the process and end up out of tune again.

No! Leave the tuner safely where it is and put it safely away when the song is finished. If you don't like it, don't look. Concentrate on the finger work or the singer's face instead of fussing about things that aren't important.

DC

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:18 AM

If left on the headstock for any length of time, the solvents in the tuner pads can damage the instrument finish.

Dave H

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:18 AM

I put my tuner on with the 'screen' bit at the back of the headstock - visible only to me. That way, I don't offend TWAEO.

I generally take it off once I'm tuned, and put it on the little table or stool I use to put my picks/capos/tuner on (and thus avoid 'losing' them during performance).

It's called 'being organised'.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:34 AM

'If left on the headstock for any length of time, the solvents in the tuner pads can damage the instrument finish.'

most guitars look like they've dragged backwards through a hedge after a few years in folk clubs Dave. you'd have to be very anal retentive to worry about the damage done by the pads of the tuners.

what the original poster fails to recognise is that the guitar usually requires adjustment with every change of key and certainly of tuning. Tarrega said he had spent at least forty of the fifty years he played guitar just tuning the damn thing.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:55 AM

I think I would quite like a big one in a session - mega screen size- to show the notes of the tune. I'm not bad at picking up tunes - but I don't always manage it by the end of the second time through. So lets do away with the little ones and go mega.
FloraG

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:40 AM

the worst are those that leave them on and clipped to their music stands whilst they fumble through reams of paper to find their songs.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:44 AM

I play mandolin, mandolins have 2 states, being tuned or out of tune.

Dave H

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:42 AM

I thought they were just little spotlights intended to make the drops of sweat in the singer's cleavage sparkle or highlight their open fly buttons with glittery reflections? Why would the performer want to look at them?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:50 AM

Think yourself lucky anyone bothers to turn up at a folk club to perform at all!!!!!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Anne Lister
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 08:01 AM

Good grief ... surely there are more important things in this world to worry about? Even in terms of performance technique.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 08:20 AM

Can these tuners be configured for perfect intervals or do they always show equal temperament? If the latter, you might want that in a session but not for a solo instrument.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 08:46 AM

For the uninitiated, "perfect intervals" are those where the number of staff serving at the bar matches the number of customers wishing to be served.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:31 AM

Excellent explanation of Just vs Equal Temperament tuning.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 10:20 AM

Nigel, I like your definition.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 11:02 AM

Now the original poster has stirred the pot he/she seems to have taken a back seat

Gerry

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 12:14 PM

Not taking a back seat, just interested in reading everyone's replies/opinions.

I agree that it's not exactly the most important thing in the world; or even in the world of folk, haha! But I think it does spoil the line of the instrument, and thus detracts just a little from the performance - especially if accidentally left on.

Imagine Leonidas Kavakos performing Sibelius on a Strad at the Royal Festival Hall, with an electronic tuner attached to the scroll of his violin! Okay, we might only be performing to a few fellow folkies in a draughty hall on a wet evening in November, but performing we still are; and a part of that performance is how the instrument looks.

It only takes a second to take the thing off and pop it into a pocket or bag! It will still be there ready for the tune-up before your next song!

Andy

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,gillymorg4
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 12:53 PM

It doesn't bother me but as Andy pointed out it does break up the line of a nice instrument. It's cool to see a Collings or Santa Cruz haircut headstock or a Bourgeois snake head but it seems that most performers I see don't perform with their better instruments and there's a lot of plainjane Martin and Martin-style head stocks out there.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 01:03 PM

I object to those people who have sex with their tuners, why dont they stick to Pigs, as David Cameron allegedly has a prefernce for.
if David comes to your folk club confiscate his tuner.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 01:19 PM

Tuna? Oh no, not them as well!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 01:51 PM

As an unarmed singer, it is quite intimidating to walk into a room full of guitars, all with bayonets affixed, ready to drown out the dulcet tones of my unamplified voice.

It's kinda like walking through a supermarket parking lot, with those big, evil trailer hitches sticking out at a level that is very distressing for those of us of the male gender.

So, I fear that some day, I'm going to poke my eye out walking into a room full of tuner-adorned guitars.

But what the heck, I'd rather get my balls busted by a trailer hitch, than sing with an out-of-tune guitar. Honey, if it makes tuning easier for you, you keep that tuner wherever you want to keep it.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:16 PM

"But I think it does spoil the line of the instrument, and thus detracts just a little from the performance"

But some accessories could actually enhance the appearance and function...

I've always fancied attaching a bayonet to the headstock of one of my guitars...😜

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Rachel
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:17 PM

Blimey....does it really matter?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:19 PM

oops... now there's a coincidence.. not refreshed this page for a while, so hadn't seen Joe's post

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:32 PM

is the OP a case of hearing with your eyes! If the guy on your CD had an in-line tuner during the recording session would it offend your inner man?

(Thinks - what would he say if he saw this picture)

I tune 'cos I care and with a Swish Army knife of course - it's wot the alien key attachment is for!

Red Drum spells murdder backwards - & I'm not afraid to use it!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:46 PM

so the tambourine bashers are out of tune
?
sometimes I forget to take tuner off before bagging guitar and then wonder where it is next time till I unbag guitar.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:53 PM

You're all correct, of course, it doesn't matter. I can still really enjoy songs from performers even with that pesky tuner attached, it's not a big thing (no pun intended).

And yet, it does matter. Because it matters to me, just a little bit. And if I was the only one in the world that it matters to (just a little bit), I'd be pretty amazed!

Interesting that not one poster so far has said that they actually prefer to see a guitar with a tuner attached (as opposed to finding it useful to have one attached to their own guitar)!

P.S. Nice red drum! Shame about the tuner! :-)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:53 PM

I've always fancied attaching a bayonet to the headstock of one of my guitars...😜

so you can kill fascists?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 03:09 PM

There was a time when electronic tuners didn't exist (for anyone here young enough to have missed the days of checking a dial tone in whatever city one found oneself and then using an A-440 tuning fork to figure out what note was sounding on the dial tone. Then, if one lost the tuning fork ya could always get tuned appropriately. Of course, tuning by ear is ideal, and I don't care to see tuners on guitars, but then that's just a matter of taste and aesthetics. I play often with musicians who keep tuners attached and that's fine with me. What I find to be a danger is strings that haven't been clipped or wound so they don't poke holes in one's skin. About that there oughta be a law. YMMV.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:21 PM

The thing is Andy, people who feel that it is important to let everyone know what they don't like have completely worn me out.

Some how or another, when the set is over, they manage to push ahead of the folks who want to say, "Thank you, that was my mother's favorite song" and tell you that you played it in D when it should have been G, or that you shouldn't have sung "Good King Wenceslaus" because is not a Christmas song, and is about "The Feast of Stephen", or that you were wrong to play a "piano blues" on your guitar, that I either should or shouldn't have played something by the Rolling Stones, or that it is immoral to play Maj7th chords.

And yes, they are entitled to their opinion, and yes, because I am the performer, I am obliged to smile and listen politely, and even to apologize. And yes, I shouldn't let that stuff get to me, and I usually don't. Over time though, you don't forget.

At some point, I remembered that customer service axiom that for every person whose complaint you receive, their are ten more who don't say anything. Given that I often played in coffeehouses or such places where a good audience often numbered 20-30,it came to me that it wasn't worth going out anymore;-)

Anyway, Andy, you'll be glad to know that you will never see my tuner on my guitar, or even my guitar, because I decline all invitations to perform. You're welcome to try your hand at it, though, and if I happen to hear you, I'll be only to glad to correct your thumb placement.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:38 PM

Wow, Guest.Stim, you make a really good point! And yes, it's so much easier to criticise than to praise; I, like many others, am very sensitive to criticism, and equally slow to believe that praise is genuine.

And so I'll change the viewpoint in my original post, and say, "Just as a point of interest, I slightly prefer watching guitar players if they don't leave their electronic tuners on the ends of their guitars. I always take off my tuner. But that's only a personal opinion, what do others think?"

Thank you for pointing this out! The tuners really don't matter, after all!

Andy

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:01 PM

Thank you for listening, Andy;-)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:05 PM

You're welcome! :-)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:10 PM

It's so important to listen to what others say, and to change our opinions if they need changing. This has worked for me, in this discussion. So, thank you.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Rachel
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:20 PM

I think for me, it's about listening to a guitar player...aesthetics aside, at the end of the day, surely it's about the music and not the tools? All of us on this thread are lucky to be able to access it being played live and therefore well placed to comment about that little plastic piece of digital wizadry that we see perched on the end of a multiplicity of instruments. We all may have our own preferences, likes and dislikes and this thread has explored the pros and cons quite nicely...Let's say 'each to our own' and get on with enjoying the folky stuff.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Rachel
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:30 PM

Ps...I perch the red Snark on the end of my guitar...and funnily enough, I'm often out of tune :)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:14 PM

"I think for me, it's about listening to a guitar player...aesthetics aside, at the end of the day, surely it's about the music and not the tools? All of us on this thread are lucky to be able to access it being played live and therefore well placed to comment about that little plastic piece of digital wizadry that we see perched on the end of a multiplicity of instruments. We all may have our own preferences, likes and dislikes and this thread has explored the pros and cons quite nicely...Let's say 'each to our own' and get on with enjoying the folky stuff."

Nicely said!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 08:23 PM

Andy7, you are a nice guy despite having ignored my question about the capo. :-)