please take off those tuners!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: BanjoRay
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 07:30 PM

I have the misfortune to be a regular at a session where I seem to be a member of a very small minority who even bother bringing tuners, let alone using them. Now that's a MUCH worse misfortune......

Ray

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: maeve
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:27 PM

On the other hand, Andy7 as the OP started with a premise, listened to other posters, changed his views and gracefully so. Nice little thread in many ways. Uncle Len and # had a bit o' fun too. :)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Hesk
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:15 PM

One of the problems with Mudcat is that every conceivable topic seems to have been aired, over and over again. There are, obviously, a number of Catters who rack their brains thinking up new threads. Unfortunately they are often negative, as is this one. Any one taking these seriously would never perform again, as there is nothing that is acceptable, it would seem.
Perhaps it is time to to go back to basics, and just have fun!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:09 PM

IMO, if having or not having a tuner or capo affixed to one's guitar makes a jot or tittle's difference to the performance, it's likely the performer is in the wrong line of work and/or the audience is really screwed up.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 02:44 PM

Some guitarists on YouTube have taken to attaching a small camcorder to the headstock - pointing down the fretboard so that their finger action can be captured on video.

Mmm... I think I'll get one and link it to a large monitor facing the audience, so everyone can see what my old fingers get up to.

Tuners? Tuners schmooners - camcorders for everyone... :-)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 02:15 PM

My guitar, capo and tuner are tools of my trade, and I like to have 'em where I can get at them - as close as possible. The headstock is perfect for tuner and guitar. Would a blind audience notice?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 02:03 PM

Hmmm, Richard Thompson was on UK television last night (Later with Jools Holland) and kept his tuner attached whilst playing.

But you are all better guitarists than him, of course...

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 01:44 PM

A very good point. Not only do too many folk leave them attached but several ,leave them switched on wasting the batteries. My guitar comes with a built in tuner and I'd never leave it on never mind want to keep looking at it! I reckon to many it has the same function as their car horn, there to prove they own one, take them off please!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:40 PM

rumncoke, i cannot criticise you for that

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Rumncoke
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 11:24 AM

I took my guitar out of the room to tune it, returned, waited until singer finished and walked back to the seat next to my guitar case and drink, to be roundly told off for trying to 'jump the queue'.
Me being shy I said nothing and waited until the entire room had sung once, and a couple twice by which time the guitar was out of tune with the heat.

I bought a tuner.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 11:10 AM

Aaaaahh, I think you may be right, Tattie! Brain-Fade strikes again! :-)

Apologies to Dick if that's the case, my bad!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 11:02 AM

Think Dick meant the audience, not the player, BWM!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 10:42 AM

Dick, you're making an incorrect (and, dare I say, high-handed) assumption that people who use tuners don't listen to their instruments. I use an electronic tuner to 'get into the ball park' quickly, then I tweak the tuning by ear to get it 'dead on' - by which I mean into temperament.

Most of those I play with and around follow exactly the same process.

There's no shame in using a tuner - have you ever tried to tune by ear during a session in a pub, with boxes, fiddles, whistles and bodhrans all blasting away (not to mention bar-flies bellowing in each other's ears)?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 09:53 AM

Dick, you are so radical and so right.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 03:21 PM

I thought those little screens were so football fans could see the results while singing Matty Groves or some other longwinded songs?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 03:21 PM

Try listening instead of just lookinng.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 01:53 PM

Yes, always remove your tuner unless one or all of the following apply:
a) You have new strings
b)it is exceptionally humid, exceptionally dry, warm, cold etc
c)you are playing a 12 string guitar
d)you bend notes a lot
e)you are afraid of leaving it on the table

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Uncle Len
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 01:28 PM

Top idea Mr [or Ms] #.

That offers a viable solution.
The curved profile neck is a much more ergonomic fingering surface than the flatter fingerboard.
Once the carefully drawn and spaced pen lines are applied - no more embarrassing audible fluffed notes or fret scrapes at folk music sessions.

Plus we could then incorporate another idea I had in mind to entirely fill the guitar with Builders expanding foam,
then seal off the hole with duct tape or a more permanent nailed on sheet of metal cut from the case of a disused VHS video recorder.

This would prevent drafts entering, circulating, then leaving the guitar,
and provide valuable insulation in winter saving an estimated 0.12 pence in wasted heating costs.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 12:50 PM

Dear Uncle Len,

Call me crazy, but have you considered turning the guitar backwards? That will solve the bloody big hole problem. Hey, Solutions R Us.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Uncle Len
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 12:38 PM

Welding is a terrific idea [Guitar manufacturers take note]
but in practical terms a little beyond the scope of most home DIY enthusiasts.

One alternative I am prototyping at the moment is to entirely remove and discard all strings.
Then with use of a long metal ruler and fine tip indelible ink pen,
carefully draw 6 [or 12 if you are an advanced player] parallel lines along the length of the fingerboard from nut down to bridge.

The stumbling problem I am encountering at the moment is that bloody big hole in the centre of the guitar body....

This needs some more thought... stay tuned...

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Rachel
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 12:25 PM

...in DADGAD

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 11:39 AM

Dear Uncle Len,

I just finished a welding course and I wonder if you have considered permanently affixing the strings in that manner?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Uncle Len's Guitar Tutorials
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 10:33 AM

1] Tune up then squirt superglue all over the machineheads, bridge and nut slots...

wait one minute to set, then'll you'll never need to tune up again

Why this never occurred to Martin or Gibson to do this straight from the factory work bench ...????

Call themselves Professional Luthiers.... Bah bloody useless !!!???



Next:


2] How to play slide guitar without a slide or bottleneck

simply press drawing pins into the tips of your fretting fingers.


Stay tuned in for more helpful practical advice. [please press like and share with friends]

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 09:53 AM

the problem pre-tuners was not so much being out of tune as the fact we had to be in tune with the bossiest member of the band. one bloke who shall remain nameless used to fiddle with my machine heads on stage if he didn't think i wasn't in tune with him.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Cool Beans
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 09:03 AM

How about the aesthetic appeal, or lack thereof, of a player who visibly keeps a flatpick in his mouth until he needs it? I saw that the other day. It didn't bother me. The player was Pat Metheny.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: bubblyrat
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 08:39 AM

I was always taught to tune it by ear,as close as I can get it, then shrug and mutter "It's close enough for folk" . Can't do that nowadays though, what with my 70s drawing near and my tinnitus etc.Still, there's always young Callum now,in South Zeal ; he can tune up and I'll tune to him !

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: TheSnail
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 04:00 AM

Now if they could do one of these for fiddle...

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 03:46 AM

Just a thought
Is there a capo/tuner combination out there? Might this solve the problem?
With modern electronix it is eminently possible and not over the top.

I might say...............








Nothing to fret about.






I'll get my Aran sweater........

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: PHJim
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 12:41 AM

It's your guitar/banjo/mandolin/nyckelharpa. . . and if you want to leave stuff fastened to your headstock, it's up to you, but I'll admit to not liking the look of tuners, capos, cigarettes and unclipped strings (sometimes all on the same instrument), especially one with an attractive shape or some tasteful pearl inlay. These same folks will sometimes even have those stick-on pick holders as well.
If you're one of the folks who like to do this, I'll still jam with you, and won't even spend a lot of time thinking about how ugly these things look.
I'll also admit to having most of my cases covered with stickers, even though some of the musicians I play with think it's ugly.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 08:23 PM

Andy7, you are a nice guy despite having ignored my question about the capo. :-)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:14 PM

"I think for me, it's about listening to a guitar player...aesthetics aside, at the end of the day, surely it's about the music and not the tools? All of us on this thread are lucky to be able to access it being played live and therefore well placed to comment about that little plastic piece of digital wizadry that we see perched on the end of a multiplicity of instruments. We all may have our own preferences, likes and dislikes and this thread has explored the pros and cons quite nicely...Let's say 'each to our own' and get on with enjoying the folky stuff."

Nicely said!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Rachel
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:30 PM

Ps...I perch the red Snark on the end of my guitar...and funnily enough, I'm often out of tune :)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Rachel
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:20 PM

I think for me, it's about listening to a guitar player...aesthetics aside, at the end of the day, surely it's about the music and not the tools? All of us on this thread are lucky to be able to access it being played live and therefore well placed to comment about that little plastic piece of digital wizadry that we see perched on the end of a multiplicity of instruments. We all may have our own preferences, likes and dislikes and this thread has explored the pros and cons quite nicely...Let's say 'each to our own' and get on with enjoying the folky stuff.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:10 PM

It's so important to listen to what others say, and to change our opinions if they need changing. This has worked for me, in this discussion. So, thank you.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:05 PM

You're welcome! :-)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:01 PM

Thank you for listening, Andy;-)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:38 PM

Wow, Guest.Stim, you make a really good point! And yes, it's so much easier to criticise than to praise; I, like many others, am very sensitive to criticism, and equally slow to believe that praise is genuine.

And so I'll change the viewpoint in my original post, and say, "Just as a point of interest, I slightly prefer watching guitar players if they don't leave their electronic tuners on the ends of their guitars. I always take off my tuner. But that's only a personal opinion, what do others think?"

Thank you for pointing this out! The tuners really don't matter, after all!

Andy

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:21 PM

The thing is Andy, people who feel that it is important to let everyone know what they don't like have completely worn me out.

Some how or another, when the set is over, they manage to push ahead of the folks who want to say, "Thank you, that was my mother's favorite song" and tell you that you played it in D when it should have been G, or that you shouldn't have sung "Good King Wenceslaus" because is not a Christmas song, and is about "The Feast of Stephen", or that you were wrong to play a "piano blues" on your guitar, that I either should or shouldn't have played something by the Rolling Stones, or that it is immoral to play Maj7th chords.

And yes, they are entitled to their opinion, and yes, because I am the performer, I am obliged to smile and listen politely, and even to apologize. And yes, I shouldn't let that stuff get to me, and I usually don't. Over time though, you don't forget.

At some point, I remembered that customer service axiom that for every person whose complaint you receive, their are ten more who don't say anything. Given that I often played in coffeehouses or such places where a good audience often numbered 20-30,it came to me that it wasn't worth going out anymore;-)

Anyway, Andy, you'll be glad to know that you will never see my tuner on my guitar, or even my guitar, because I decline all invitations to perform. You're welcome to try your hand at it, though, and if I happen to hear you, I'll be only to glad to correct your thumb placement.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 03:09 PM

There was a time when electronic tuners didn't exist (for anyone here young enough to have missed the days of checking a dial tone in whatever city one found oneself and then using an A-440 tuning fork to figure out what note was sounding on the dial tone. Then, if one lost the tuning fork ya could always get tuned appropriately. Of course, tuning by ear is ideal, and I don't care to see tuners on guitars, but then that's just a matter of taste and aesthetics. I play often with musicians who keep tuners attached and that's fine with me. What I find to be a danger is strings that haven't been clipped or wound so they don't poke holes in one's skin. About that there oughta be a law. YMMV.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:53 PM

I've always fancied attaching a bayonet to the headstock of one of my guitars...😜

so you can kill fascists?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:53 PM

You're all correct, of course, it doesn't matter. I can still really enjoy songs from performers even with that pesky tuner attached, it's not a big thing (no pun intended).

And yet, it does matter. Because it matters to me, just a little bit. And if I was the only one in the world that it matters to (just a little bit), I'd be pretty amazed!

Interesting that not one poster so far has said that they actually prefer to see a guitar with a tuner attached (as opposed to finding it useful to have one attached to their own guitar)!

P.S. Nice red drum! Shame about the tuner! :-)

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:46 PM

so the tambourine bashers are out of tune
?
sometimes I forget to take tuner off before bagging guitar and then wonder where it is next time till I unbag guitar.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:32 PM

is the OP a case of hearing with your eyes! If the guy on your CD had an in-line tuner during the recording session would it offend your inner man?

(Thinks - what would he say if he saw this picture)

I tune 'cos I care and with a Swish Army knife of course - it's wot the alien key attachment is for!

Red Drum spells murdder backwards - & I'm not afraid to use it!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:19 PM

oops... now there's a coincidence.. not refreshed this page for a while, so hadn't seen Joe's post

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Rachel
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:17 PM

Blimey....does it really matter?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:16 PM

"But I think it does spoil the line of the instrument, and thus detracts just a little from the performance"

But some accessories could actually enhance the appearance and function...

I've always fancied attaching a bayonet to the headstock of one of my guitars...😜

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 01:51 PM

As an unarmed singer, it is quite intimidating to walk into a room full of guitars, all with bayonets affixed, ready to drown out the dulcet tones of my unamplified voice.

It's kinda like walking through a supermarket parking lot, with those big, evil trailer hitches sticking out at a level that is very distressing for those of us of the male gender.

So, I fear that some day, I'm going to poke my eye out walking into a room full of tuner-adorned guitars.

But what the heck, I'd rather get my balls busted by a trailer hitch, than sing with an out-of-tune guitar. Honey, if it makes tuning easier for you, you keep that tuner wherever you want to keep it.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 01:19 PM

Tuna? Oh no, not them as well!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 01:03 PM

I object to those people who have sex with their tuners, why dont they stick to Pigs, as David Cameron allegedly has a prefernce for.
if David comes to your folk club confiscate his tuner.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,gillymorg4
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 12:53 PM

It doesn't bother me but as Andy pointed out it does break up the line of a nice instrument. It's cool to see a Collings or Santa Cruz haircut headstock or a Bourgeois snake head but it seems that most performers I see don't perform with their better instruments and there's a lot of plainjane Martin and Martin-style head stocks out there.