BS: Views from Canada

Subject: BS: Views from Canada
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 03:27 AM

Sounds a good result to me but I don't live there! What are the views from our Canadian contingent?

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 03:31 AM

seems a great result-well done. watch out for the neighbours though- they won't like it!

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 01:06 PM

The Russians? The US doesn't care right now, except that it will mean a new ambassador. We're too busy confusing Trump with something good while Sanders continue to gain ground.

I want to see the age breakdown in the Canadian vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: meself
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 01:11 PM

One of the Canadian contingent here seems pretty unhappy about it - but I'm pleased as punch.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 02:41 PM

Trudeau seems very smart, compassionate, caring, accessible,   and (as indicated by the very high vote turn out) has captured new interest from many citizens in creating a better country and democracy and erasing some of the negative impact from Harper (aka Bush jr.). Over 80, 000 volunteers helped him knock on doors throughout Canada, spreading a positive, attack free platform.

He has a big challenge to deliver on many parts of his dynamic and positive platform and vision for Canada. But, he has a group of talented Canadiands to help. Just today he has stated a return to a team approach reinvigorating tge public service, including government scientists. He also highlighted an immediate focus on working with provincial officials and on improving the plight of Canadas First Nations peoples.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 02:44 PM

Everyone has a Mom, including Trudeau. I found this postvelevtion interview interesting:
trudeaus Mom 

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,#
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 02:46 PM

I am very happy. I hope Trudeau offers the Environment portfolio to Elizabeth May. (Trudeau, the new PM designate, is Liberal. Elizabeth May is the one elected Green Party member.) The seat breakdown was

Liberals, 184
Conservatives (CPC) 99
New Democratic Party 44
Bloc Quebecois 10
Green Party 1

Total seats in the House of Commons is now 338. That is an increase of 30 seats from 2011 when there were 308 seats in the House.

The 2011 election figures were

CPC 166
NDP 103
Liberal 34
Bloc 4
Green 1

A majority now is 170 seats. (A majority in the House is 50% plus 1.) I expect the Libs will try to follow through on their campaign promises. Already Trudeau has said he'll cancel the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II order. That would have cost us 40 billion in the long run and the plane is crap. It is an encouraging result because finally the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women will be addressed. There are now 10 indigenous MPs and that is a good thing. Some deadwood from the CPC (Conservative Party of Canada) lost their seats and I am ecstatic about that. There are many 'bridges' to mend internationally and nationally. It will take time, but I think Trudeau will do it. He was the one candidate who said openly that Canada will have to run at least two years of deficit budgets, but that could change because we have no idea as a country what we have in the bank. The goddamned Conservatives have been BSing about that for years. Bill C-51 will be revisited and amended. The constant fear-mongering about Muslims will stop, and the TPP will be aired to the Canadian people for public input (I hope!). It feels to me like we saved our country from becoming a totalitarian state, and I am grateful Canadians (most of whom don't like being told what to do at the best of times) made that very clear to Harper. Harper will resign I expect today although he will keep his seat in the HoC. I hope they put the sack of shit in the back row of the HoC because I am sick of seeing his face.

PS I voted NDP in my riding and I'm glad the candidate retained her seat.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 03:49 PM

My take is the significant losses by the NDP were due to two factors- outside that some would never vote NDP, as some see it as a anti business, pro labour socialist party.

1)The last vote gave them significant support in Quebec, but it was soft support garnered by an ill Jacl Layton, versus strong linkages to the party. Mulclair was unable to retain this support, as he was a former Liberal Quebec province Environment Minister. Wiith a less likable style than Layton, he was less able to connect with Quebec citizens. To a degree, pandering to the significant number of Quebec voters on Quebec issues, Mulcair sacrificed some support elsewhere in Canada.

2) Trudeau was the underdog, but faced relentless and personal Harper attack ads long before and dyring tge election. Some folks felt this unfair, and it likely helped Trudeau. Instead of firmly capturing the anti-Harper torch, Mulcair focused much of his energy on attacking Trudeau (as he feared Trudeau could capture anti Harper vites from the NDP). This strategy seemed to backfire, as some saw it as unfair. It enabled Trudeau to be seen as leading the anti Harper charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 03:57 PM

Trudeaus wife-not your traditional type 

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,#
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 05:35 PM

I think you are right about much of that, Ed. Another dynamic that entered the picture was the tight campaign Trudeau ran. His campaign people were brilliant. I followed the election returns from the time the polls closed in Newfoundland/Labrador until they closed in BC. I had expected the Libs to beat the CPC, but not so drastically. I'd thought it would be about 157 Libs, 117 Cons, 60 or so NDP and a few each for Bloc and Green. I'd figured the battleground would be the GTA. But when the red 'wave' that started in Nfld/Labrador kept going through NB, NS and PEI, I realized it was a new ballgame. I did not expect the Libs to get 40 seats in PQ and 80 in Ontario; blew my mind. I was very happy to see Nunavut's Aglukkaq shot down by Tootoo. She was a cabinet minister who imo was useless as tits on a bull. We have exciting days ahead, and Trudeau's promise to change the first-past-the post system is very encouraging. BUT, he won't lead the next government if he doesn't address serious issues like Bill C-51, homelessness, poverty, indigenous people's issues, veteran's affairs, etc. The overthrow/gutting of the environmental protection of over two million lakes and rivers to 159 lakes and rivers is unconscionable. Trudeau has his work cut out for him, that's for sure. And so do Canadians. But at least now I feel like we're in this together as a country. Alberta is a sore spot, but it's difficult to change the habits of a lifetime. That'll happen though. We are a remarkably rich country in terms of our resources, but we need to have Canadian companies employing Canadian people. If we lack specific skills, then we can certainly teach/learn them here. Our greatest resource, one so often overlooked, is the Canadian people. We have some tough years ahead of us, but we are a tough country, and I like Trudeau's can-do attitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 05:56 PM

Trudeau was up early today, shaking hands near the subway in his constituency-then off to Otttawa for a news conference. I detect he is genuine, full of energy and the back room old boys have not mired him down yet. He seemsvtonhave a goid team to help.

Some priorities he seemed to indicate include, First Nations issues (including missing or murdered women) , building bridges with Provinces (especially related to the environment, infrastructure and energy and tge economy), tax breaks for the middle class, the public service, including freeing up and listening to scientists, rebuildung the navy with savings from fighter jets and making links with partners like the USA. I detect he wishes to change Canada's role in the Middle East, away from active involvement to less training assistance.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: meself
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 06:13 PM

Trudeau has been smart enough to surround himself with very capable people. My fear is their connections with the various big corporations; it may be a challenge for Justin to keep them in line, to keep their fingers out of the cookie jar. We've already seen evidence of this issue ....

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 07:14 PM

What big corporations !

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 07:58 PM

His main stratigist, Butts (with Cape Breton rootss) headed upvan environmental group (WWF, I believe). I believe Butts and the second in command worked on Ontario Liberal campaigns. I am not aware of any big corporate contacts with them, but others may have them?

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 08:08 PM

Last Guest was me. With a name like Butts, you have to be tough:)

on Trudeau and Butts 

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 09:21 PM

Fun fact: The prime minister of Canada's mother is the same age as Hilary Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 10:06 PM

Great n depth commentary!

#... "I hope Trudeau offers the Environment portfolio to Elizabeth May." I wish he w/could but she is anti-pipeline and he is pro... do you think they can compromise in some way?

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 15 - 10:23 PM

BTW... Elizabeth May would be my choice for PM if such a choice was available. I wanted NDP with Mulcair as PM but let's hope Trudeau does BETTER in future. Just thank goodness Harper is gone and hope Parliament returns to the institution it was meant to be instead of omnibus bills and no debate. (Mulcair shot himself in the foot when he said he would get rid of the Senate. He knew it will never happen and it was just a bullshit move to try to get votes... twit.)

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 12:22 AM

again trudeau ran a decant and principled campaign, and was positive in the face of personal attacks from both harper and mulcair. mulcair was a one time Margaret supporter when a cabinet minister in quebec, a real political opportunist. harper is an evil racist and oild industry hack who would sell out the country to make one more nickel for his oil industry backers. the alberta oil run conservatives ruined alberta--never collecting world level royalities, and never saving them, and creating the toxic wasteland of the north. and they tried to do that for all of Canada.

so we are free of this scheming evil man. the worst of racist Christianity and the toxic oil and military industries.

trudeau faces challenges, but I doubt he will lie cheat and bribe to get through like harper did.

so we are free at last!!

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: meself
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 01:26 AM

Am I the only one aware of this: "one of Trudeau's campaign co-chairs ... sent an email to an oil company on how to lobby in favour of the Energy East pipeline" (Ottawa Citizen)? To me, this says something about who he has around him. No "big corporate contacts"?!

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 07:14 AM

Trudeau has plenty of talented folks to choose from on hisvteam. I am happy May was elected, as she presents a different perspective on many fronts. However, she is an unpredictable "loose cannon", and, as such, could do more harm than good on a number of fronts.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 08:06 AM

Is sanity breaking out in North America? Let's hope it's contagious?

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 08:56 AM

The NDP lost my vote when Mulcair, pandering to Quebec separatists, went against the ruling of the supreme court by saying his government would accept a vote of 50% plus 1 to separate.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 09:28 AM

Meself, if you read to the end of the article, you might have learned that the campaign co-chair guy resigned when his lobbying efforts were made public, indicating that the Liberals consider such double-timing to be non-kosher.

Let's hope that trend continues.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 09:38 AM

meself, when Trudeau found out that Dan Gagnier had written the letter he let Gagnier (campaign co-chair) go. I expect Trudeau would have fired him had Gagnier not left of his own accord. Certainly that broke no laws but ti wasn't a good thing either. At the least it was morally reprehensible.

In Trudeau's defence, I don't think he knew. Trudeau has kept himself out of the Energy East thing. He is on the record as saying how inappropriate it was and beyond that I don't know what more he could have done.

We have not had a single one of the main parties get through the past decade without someone--make that many someones--getting caught breaking the law. I liken the situation to Michael Sona's actions in the robocall scandal. I don't think Harper knew that was happening.

What I do know is that for the first time in nine years and eight months I don't wake up each day wondering how much more of our democracy will get "thrown under the bus" to consolidate our government's grip on the law and the CPC's stranglehold on power. I too am sick of the plots and schemes that have been blatantly thrown in the face of Canadians and about how little we have been able to do to change that. I expected a minority Liberal government--indeed hoped for one. When the count came in at 184 seats I felt like Christmas had come early. Besides, I made a deal with god close to a year ago--and I am an atheist, but I was grasping at straws--that if Harper and the CPC lost this election I would go to church once a month. (Previously I went no more frequently than a few times per decade, and then only for hatched, matched or dispatched ceremonies.) I will spend the next few days looking for loopholes, but I don't think I have a way out. I can live with that. There are enough churches in the area that I won't get stuck with any one group of the faithful nor they with me.

Best wishes to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 10:08 AM

Is sanity breaking out in North America?

Not South of the Saint Lawrence River & the Great Lakes, more's the pity.

Congratulations, Canada!

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Mooh
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 10:35 AM

Absolutely delighted that Harper is history. Can't fathom who would vote for his party and what it stands for.

Not so sure about Trudeau as PM but no matter he's certain to be leagues better than Harper.

Had hoped for an NDP majority or at least official opposition. Very disappointed that they got so few seats.

I understand what happened. The Cons voted in droves in an act of paranoid self-preservation of their bigoted hatred and ignorant and extremely narrow social, national, and world view. The Liberals smelled blood in the water and voted in droves in a sense of renewed hope and optimism, aided by a large percentage of (otherwise) NDP supporters who were afraid that the Cons might survive for another term, and anything but conservative (ABC) had become a rallying cry. The collateral damage was a thrashing of the NDP which lost many very very good parliamentarians. As for the Block, I'm surprised they're still living the dream (or fantasy) and now that their leader lost his own seat, it questions the viability of the party, again. The Greens, god bless their idealistic souls, kept their leader's seat and she's a wonderful parliamentarian who I hope will be consulted by the ruling party often on matters green.

As I understand it from folks kind of "in the know", the new PM is already being pestered by pleas to undo the Harper damage. I hope he heeds those pleas, but it will take years to do the repairs.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 10:39 AM

If I may paraphrase Yeats:

For Trudeau may keep faith
For all that is done and said.

Trudeau will have an uphill battle and will need the support of the NDP to keep the Conservatives in check, as I understand that they do have things in common. So do the Greens; I can't speak to the BQ. Working together and compromise will be the order of the day. I am a bit sorry that The Bridge Party didn't win any seats -- I had hoped for them to win four.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 12:04 PM

""NDP supporters who were afraid that the Cons might survive for another term, and anything but conservative (ABC) had become a rallying cry. The collateral damage was a thrashing of the NDP which lost many very very good parliamentarians""

Soft Liberals voting NDP, because of a lack of interest in the previous Liberal leader in the previous federal election is one reason why the NDP became the official opposition last time.. Unfortunately for the NDP, they erroneously began to believe the larger number of votes they received at this point indicated strong NDP support in Ontario and Quebec. This aloofness was indicated by Mulcair's odd election proclamation that the NDP only needed 35 seats to defeat Harper. Wishful thinking, versus reality, can lead to big surprises.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 01:53 PM

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?dir=par&document=index&lang=e§ion=pol

That is an Elections Canada link and it enumerates the 23 parties that ran in this election. The Bridge Party (note that their official title is 'The Bridge Party of Canada') ran only one candidate, so Rap's hope was doomed from the get-go.

From Macleans Magazine here is the party-list and the number of candidates they ran this election:

Number of party candidates
Alliance of the North: 1

Animal Alliance Environment Voters Party of Canada: 8

Bloc Quebecois: 78

Canada Party: 1

Canadian Action Party: 3

Christian Heritage Party of Canada: 30

Communist Party of Canada: 26

Conservative Party of Canada: 338

Democratic Advancement Party of Canada: 4

Forces et Democratie: 17

Green Party of Canada: 336

Independent: 74

Liberal Party of Canada: 338

Libertarian Party of Canada: 72

Marijuana Party: 8

Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada: 70

New Democratic Party: 338

No Affiliation: 6

Party for Accountability, Competency and Transparency: 1

Pirate Party of Canada: 5

Progressive Canadian Party: 8

Rhinoceros Party: 27

Seniors Party of Canada: 1

The Bridge Party of Canada: 1

United Party of Canada: 1

That is the most current info I could conveniently locate. I think the Greens ran a full slate (meaning one candidate in each riding, so their number on that list should (I think) read 338. However, I was wrong once before in 1967, so please excuse me if I have screwed up.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 04:42 PM

""Trudeau will have an uphill battle and will need the support of the NDP to keep the Conservatives in check""

I suspect with a majority, not much help is needed. Opposition parties, including the NDP, will likely be more of a thorn to Trudeau, especially since they are smarting from their "perceived" throne being stolen. The conservatives will likely be busy licking their wounds and "finding themselves", since they were led by a "one man show", and are feebly prepared for a change in leadership. Harper was not the mentorship type.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 05:54 PM

"Harper was not the mentorship type."

I compliment you on a masterpiece of understatement, Ed.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 07:05 PM

"The Trudeau government has its clear priorities, many of them embarrassingly more progressive than the NDP's platform. The NDP caucus can hardly oppose any of them, but nor can it expect the Government to pay attention to NDP overtures. Why should they? To fight the dreaded Harperman, the Liberals, and specifically their leader, received nothing but abuse during the campaign, often gratuitously personal and always strategically dubious. The Liberals will hardly be grateful for NDP advice about the right way to run Canada."

A good day for Canada, an awful one for NDP

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 07:36 PM

On the NDP party:

""What is the point of a social democratic party that is afraid of democratic socialism? What is the point of running as faux Liberals when the real Liberals are already there?

What is the point of being in politics if you never have a chance of forming government?

Yet if a left-wing party's only chance at power is to move rightward, why bother?""




Toronto Star 

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 08:44 PM

I note Trudeau said he wants to dump your first past the post, and bring in something fairer. On the popular vote this time thasuggests the Liberals and the NDP would need to get into bed together, and also that the Conservatives aren't too likely to get back in a hurry.

Pleased to see no Conservatives got in in Newfoundland!

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 09:04 PM

No Conservatives got in in Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI, Nunavut, Northwest Territories or Yukon. It was a great day for this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 10:20 PM

A visit from Santa in the North?

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 08:15 AM

Trudeau indicated he would make changes to C-51 and here you go.


Changes to Anti Terror law 

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 08:21 AM

Glad to see that my initial reaction of it being a good thing was right! Not often that happens :-)

Cheers all.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Charmion
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 08:28 AM

Here in Ottawa, the civil service is cautiously optimistic about its current efforts to negotiate a new contract with Treasury Board. One of the Liberals' last overt campaign actions before the vote was an open letter to the Public Service of Canada promising a newly respectful attitude from the Prime Minister's Office and the return of professional independence for everybody but especially for scientists.

Oh yeah, and Statistics Canada will start doing the long-form census again.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,#
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 09:01 AM

Needed changes to Bill C-51 will be addressed quickly also.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 11:36 AM

Last Episode of 24 Seven

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 11:38 AM

BTW... some very insightful and knowledgeable posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: GUEST,#
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 12:20 PM

Thank you, gnu. My laugh for the day. Much appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 12:38 PM

Much easier to watch than Harper singing.


Fancy Dancing 

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 04:12 PM

Trudeau, not a stick in the mud. His Dad would be proud.


Top that, world leaders 

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 04:52 PM

Hahahhaaa! All of this must be driving Evil Stevil nuts. Let's see if this works... https://www.facebook.com/drigcanada/photos/a.787962457989564.1073741828.787938944658582/924347107684431/?type=3&fref=nf

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 04:54 PM

Ya might hafta be on Facebook to get that one... it's brilliant.

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 06:13 PM

"The swath of red ridings that propelled Justin Trudeau to a thunderous Liberal victory Monday boasts more newcomers as a percentage of the population than any other party's territory."


Federal election surprises 

Subject: RE: BS: Views from Canada
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 08:19 PM

So am I right to understand that Canadians follow the European convention on the political meaning of Red and Blue rather than that of their neighbours to the south?